Thread: 4.0L 99+ intake manifold swap with REAL DYNO NUMBERS!

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  1. #26 Re: 4.0L 99+ intake manifold swap with REAL DYNO NUMBERS! 
    Senior Member DJJordache's Avatar
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    well as for "long grades" there isn't much of that in houston, but I can kind of notice what you mean, I "think" it takes a little less gas applied to go up overpasses and the trans doesn't seem as downshift happy when going up inclines at hwy speed
    93' ZJ 4.7L STROKER, Clayton LONGARMS, 4wd conversion, 231 SYE, HPD30, 8.8, BFG 35's, 2000 manifold & injectors, Hesco fpr, Port & polish, LS1 valves, WJ Steering/brakes, KOR SliderZ & steering box brace, Clayton TB bracket and my custom trackbar, Crane ignition, B&M cooler, Tom Woods, etc....
    Quote Originally Posted by Krash80 View Post
    We're all insane here...
     

  2. #27 Re: 4.0L 99+ intake manifold swap with REAL DYNO NUMBERS! 
    The Oil Dude MallCrawlin Vendor
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    Anyone have a good source for a 99+ manifold? The local yards around here SUCK big time.
    Your #1 Source for Amsoil Lubricants

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  3. #28 Re: 4.0L 99+ intake manifold swap with REAL DYNO NUMBERS! 
    Senior Member DJJordache's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cue-Ball
    Anyone have a good source for a 99+ manifold? The local yards around here SUCK big time.
    the local yards around me that I can search on car-part.com are all about 100 just for the intake, ill keep an eye out for ya in the local yards that are cheaper, but don't know what they have unless you go up there can look in them. I found one local for my brother for 65
    93' ZJ 4.7L STROKER, Clayton LONGARMS, 4wd conversion, 231 SYE, HPD30, 8.8, BFG 35's, 2000 manifold & injectors, Hesco fpr, Port & polish, LS1 valves, WJ Steering/brakes, KOR SliderZ & steering box brace, Clayton TB bracket and my custom trackbar, Crane ignition, B&M cooler, Tom Woods, etc....
    Quote Originally Posted by Krash80 View Post
    We're all insane here...
     

  4. #29 Re: 4.0L 99+ intake manifold swap with REAL DYNO NUMBERS! 
    The Oil Dude MallCrawlin Vendor
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    If someone could keep an eye out for me that would be great.

    Dirk
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  5. #30 Re: 4.0L 99+ intake manifold swap with REAL DYNO NUMBERS! 
    Senior Member Lifetime Supporter TrojanMan's Avatar
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    MrShoeBoy just did the swap and ran a dyno before and after. The only thing he changed was the intake. He gained 2-3 HP. The engine might breathe a little better so throttle response may have improved slightly, however based on what he said it doesn't sound like it's worth the swap.
    Quote Originally Posted by ATL ZJ
    This thread proves that wheeling is better than the internet.
    Weavsworld: i dont know shit about MC, i just make it work
     

  6. #31 Re: 4.0L 99+ intake manifold swap with REAL DYNO NUMBERS! 
    Senior Member DJJordache's Avatar
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    does he have the dyno printouts? I'm not doubting his results though. but it would be nice to have more info for those who are thinkin about doing this swap.
    I never said my write up was for just the intake, because I did the full 99+ intake swap and matching injectors. I disclosed everything that I changed and as I have said before and you can see that I updated to the 99+ injectors and had to get the Hesco FPR to match the new injectors rating of 49psi at the rail. You can see from the dyno printout of mine on the before and after graphs the change in the air fuel ratio that accounted for alot of the gain.

    I don't know the setup on Mr. Shoes 4.0L but I'd bet he didn't machine the intake like I did, but I dunno all of his rigs engine specs.
    I'm just trying to say that I have many things modified on my 4.0L that may have also allowed the manifold to be a greater gain on mine. EX: port and polish head, shaved head surface, LS1 valves, intake, banks header, FULL 2.5" exhaust Carsound cat and my own custom made muffler and a few other things

    What sucks about the dyno is that it doesn't show the HP/TQ ratings from idle to about 3k which is mostly what we use.

    ok I just saw Mr shoe has a 4.6L stroker, is he using the stock TB? he might have some bottlenecks that couldn't allow the engine to breathe enough in the first place, maybe... on our 4.7L XJ we have a 68mm tb from the 4.7L v8 and a few other toys in that engine, but we havnt gotten around to dynoing it after its swap, yet...
    93' ZJ 4.7L STROKER, Clayton LONGARMS, 4wd conversion, 231 SYE, HPD30, 8.8, BFG 35's, 2000 manifold & injectors, Hesco fpr, Port & polish, LS1 valves, WJ Steering/brakes, KOR SliderZ & steering box brace, Clayton TB bracket and my custom trackbar, Crane ignition, B&M cooler, Tom Woods, etc....
    Quote Originally Posted by Krash80 View Post
    We're all insane here...
     

  7. #32 Re: 4.0L 99+ intake manifold swap with REAL DYNO NUMBERS! 
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    I looked high and low for a 99+ IM and found one on e-bay for like 52 bucks shipped. It had a small chip off the corner but my friend was a tigger by trade so he made her all shiny and new for me. There on e-bay time to time and car-aprt as djjordache said.
    2000 xj------lifted locked and being built.........
     

  8. #33 Re: 4.0L 99+ intake manifold swap with REAL DYNO NUMBERS! 
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    the previous post was not me....i am the tig welder who fixed that IM for a friend...a note to justin, you use my username now?


    Mike
    2000 xj------lifted locked and being built.........
     

  9. #34 Re: 4.0L 99+ intake manifold swap with REAL DYNO NUMBERS! 
    Member gunthagunth's Avatar
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    http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/TJ-XJ...72659219QQrdZ1
    found this figured id give the heads up
     

  10. #35 Re: 4.0L 99+ intake manifold swap with REAL DYNO NUMBERS! 
    Senior Member DJJordache's Avatar
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    yeah a good source to find them is on ebay BUT since there are often many people who are also looking for them on ebay sometimes the price goes higher...
    I got my first one off of ebay with injectors and fuel rail for $89 I think, and my second one off of car-part.com and found a local yard selling it for $65
    93' ZJ 4.7L STROKER, Clayton LONGARMS, 4wd conversion, 231 SYE, HPD30, 8.8, BFG 35's, 2000 manifold & injectors, Hesco fpr, Port & polish, LS1 valves, WJ Steering/brakes, KOR SliderZ & steering box brace, Clayton TB bracket and my custom trackbar, Crane ignition, B&M cooler, Tom Woods, etc....
    Quote Originally Posted by Krash80 View Post
    We're all insane here...
     

  11. #36 Re: 4.0L 99+ intake manifold swap with REAL DYNO NUMBERS! 
    Member gunthagunth's Avatar
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    funny that was .01 when i posted it last nite.
     

  12. #37 Re: 4.0L 99+ intake manifold swap with REAL DYNO NUMBERS! 
    Junior Member Dperra's Avatar
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    Ok, I am about to install the 99+ intake manifold on my 1995 ZJ. I am not clear on exactly what is required for the Power steering pump. My ZJ has a cast bracket for the power stering pump that bolts onto the block and also onto the Intake manifold. I presume the new bracket has the correct relationship to account for the different location of the bolt holes on the intake manifold. If I understand correctly I will need to get a new power steering pump and the newer bracket to mount it. Is this correct? If so then what years and models of power steering pumps will work, what should I ask for at the parts store?

    Thanks
    Dan
     

  13. #38 Re: 4.0L 99+ intake manifold swap with REAL DYNO NUMBERS! 
    Senior Member DJJordache's Avatar
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    You will no longer use the cast bracket this new one will replace it. Yes the new bracket is already ready to go, it bolts to the block, intake manifold, and the waterpump or the timing cover (I can't remember which one right now).
    Yes I got a new pump for both times I have done this swap on mine and my stroker XJ.
    BUT I have also heard of some people drilling out the power steering pump mount hole threads, but I think thats kinda halfass, b/c the new pump has support runners the full length of the bolt. besides the one in there is probably still the stock one so I kinda considered this as a maintainace upgrade and got the new pump.
    I you were going to try and get this bracket (and pump if you want to get a cheap used one) from a junkyard you would be looking for a 96+ ZJ and also a 96+XJ for the bracket I don't know if the XJ uses the same PS pump.
    The pump I got from Autozone is from a 96-98 ZJ ATSCO
    WITH RESERVOIR Part number: 7111 WITHOUT SPEED PROPORTIONAL STEERING
    93' ZJ 4.7L STROKER, Clayton LONGARMS, 4wd conversion, 231 SYE, HPD30, 8.8, BFG 35's, 2000 manifold & injectors, Hesco fpr, Port & polish, LS1 valves, WJ Steering/brakes, KOR SliderZ & steering box brace, Clayton TB bracket and my custom trackbar, Crane ignition, B&M cooler, Tom Woods, etc....
    Quote Originally Posted by Krash80 View Post
    We're all insane here...
     

  14. #39 Re: 4.0L 99+ intake manifold swap with REAL DYNO NUMBERS! 
    Junior Member Dperra's Avatar
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    Thanks for the quick reply. now for two other questions.

    1. Is the new idler pully the same as on of the ons already on my engine? Both the pullies on My ZJ were replaced about 9 months ago.

    2. I have the overhead console in my ZJ. After the stroker with high flow injectors was installed the Fuel milage function on longer reads the correct milage. Do you know if the Trip Computer can be reprogramed or reset in some way?
    95 ZJ
    4.7 Stroker
    2.5" head pipe, 3" Cat, mufler and Tail Pipe
    99 + Intake manifold now here
    62mm TB now here

    265x75xR16 BFG AT/KO
    American Racing 16" Wheels
    4.11 axel ratio
    Trutrac Locker rear / Trutrac Limited slip Front

    Oh, and a 3" lift
     

  15. #40 Re: 4.0L 99+ intake manifold swap with REAL DYNO NUMBERS! 
    Senior Member DJJordache's Avatar
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    sure thing
    1. the pulley is the same!
    2. I have never heard of that...mine is not stroked and the trip computer works fine, and my stroked XJ does not have a trip computer. Sorry I dunno if it can be reprogramed

    edit I saw you added a signature you might be interested in some of my other handy work:
    http://65.42.106.152/forums/showthread.php?t=698310
    93' ZJ 4.7L STROKER, Clayton LONGARMS, 4wd conversion, 231 SYE, HPD30, 8.8, BFG 35's, 2000 manifold & injectors, Hesco fpr, Port & polish, LS1 valves, WJ Steering/brakes, KOR SliderZ & steering box brace, Clayton TB bracket and my custom trackbar, Crane ignition, B&M cooler, Tom Woods, etc....
    Quote Originally Posted by Krash80 View Post
    We're all insane here...
     

  16. #41 Re: 4.0L 99+ intake manifold swap with REAL DYNO NUMBERS! 
    Junior Member Dperra's Avatar
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    I Just got back from the Dyno with my 4.7L stroker. I really wish I had gotten a baseline before I had the engine rebuilt, oh well. The Results are interesting. My stroker was built to improve Torque. The basic specs on the stroker are: .060 over on the bore, 258 Crank, CC matched, Head ported to match flow rate on all cylinders, Block and head decked and pistons dished to get 9.5 compression ratio, cam to maximize torque. The stock Intake manifold and throttle body were retained. This setup still runs on regular gas. The engine puts out 142.9 HP and 204.6 Ft. Lb. Torque, all this with a transmission that is going into the shop next week because of shifting problems. I can hardly wait to see what happens with a good transmission, the 99+ intake manifold and a 62mm throttle body. It is interesting that the HP came out to about the same as just the Intake / injector mod. But the Torque come out much higher. As for the seat feel the acceleration feels like a sports car. As soon as I figure out how to get permitions to post a picture I will post the Dyno sheet.

    95 ZJ
    4.7 Stroker
    2.5" head pipe, 3" Cat, mufler and Tail Pipe
    99 + Intake manifold now here
    62mm TB now here

    265x75xR16 BFG AT/KO
    American Racing 16" Wheels
    4.11 axel ratio
    Trutrac Locker rear / Trutrac Limited slip Front

    Oh, and a 3" lift
     

  17. #42 Re: 4.0L 99+ intake manifold swap with REAL DYNO NUMBERS! 
    Senior Member DJJordache's Avatar
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    You can get a member acount here to be able to attach pictures and a few more perks you can also get a account at Photobucket to host the pics and them post them here.

    I think it was worth my extra time to grind out my intake manifold for more flow, but I don't have a before and after to prove it, but I did show the air flow differences above.
    Are you still running stock injectors? check this out from Dino Savva on JU:
    4.0 I6:

    '87-'90 #53003956 18.6lb/hr @ 39psi
    '91-'93 #33007127 21.0lb/hr @ 39psi
    '94-'95 #53030343 21.0lb/hr @ 39psi
    '96-'98 #53030778 23.2lb/hr @ 49psi
    '99-'01 #04854181 22.5lb/hr @ 49psi

    If your still running stock injectors (hope not) you have the 21.0lb/hr @ 39psi... I would get the Hesco adjustable fuel pressure regulator to turn up the fuel rail pressure to 49psi, like I did and get some Ford Motorsports 24lb injectors or at least the '96-'98 4.0L #53030778 23.2lb/hr @ 49psi

    We have the FMS 24lb ones on our 90XJ stroker and actually tweaked (adjustable map sensor) it to make it leaner, and may change injectors to the 96-98 ones above.

    I think maybe the transmission might be killin ya if you say it's dying. Mine was about 33% drive train loss which totally sucks! Heck there is even a difference in Dyno's The Mustang dynos read less than the Dynojet ones do.

    what kind of exhaust manifold do you have? there might be some hidden power there too... if you saw the link I posted above we took a Borla header that we basicly stole from a junkyard for $29 and cut off the collector and made it 3" all the way back
    93' ZJ 4.7L STROKER, Clayton LONGARMS, 4wd conversion, 231 SYE, HPD30, 8.8, BFG 35's, 2000 manifold & injectors, Hesco fpr, Port & polish, LS1 valves, WJ Steering/brakes, KOR SliderZ & steering box brace, Clayton TB bracket and my custom trackbar, Crane ignition, B&M cooler, Tom Woods, etc....
    Quote Originally Posted by Krash80 View Post
    We're all insane here...
     

  18. #43 Re: 4.0L 99+ intake manifold swap with REAL DYNO NUMBERS! 
    Junior Member Dperra's Avatar
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    As I said I have High Flow Injectors. Still have the Stock header. The stock header already flows pretty good. Another thing I see as a problem is that a 3” pipe can not be fit into the space available with the “normal” end of the head pipe. The only way anything larger can be fit is to modify the header. Paying 4 or 5 hundred dollars for a header and then modifying it just does not make sense to me either. The price is just too high for most of the headers available. Sure a premium price is warranted but 3 or 4 times a stock header when the improvement in performance is so little? I’ll wait until I have completed the transmission repair and the TB and Intake upgrade before I start on the header. Of course if a good deal happens to come my way I would need to reconsider.
    95 ZJ
    4.7 Stroker
    2.5" head pipe, 3" Cat, mufler and Tail Pipe
    99 + Intake manifold now here
    62mm TB now here

    265x75xR16 BFG AT/KO
    American Racing 16" Wheels
    4.11 axel ratio
    Trutrac Locker rear / Trutrac Limited slip Front

    Oh, and a 3" lift
     

  19. #44 Re: 4.0L 99+ intake manifold swap with REAL DYNO NUMBERS! 
    Junior Member Dperra's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dperra

    I Just got back from the Dyno with my 4.7L stroker. I really wish I had gotten a baseline before I had the engine rebuilt, oh well. The Results are interesting. My stroker was built to improve Torque. The basic specs on the stroker are: .060 over on the bore, 258 Crank, CC matched, Head ported to match flow rate on all cylinders, Block and head decked and pistons dished to get 9.5 compression ratio, cam to maximize torque. The stock Intake manifold and throttle body were retained. This setup still runs on regular gas. The engine puts out 142.9 HP and 204.6 Ft. Lb. Torque, all this with a transmission that is going into the shop next week because of shifting problems. I can hardly wait to see what happens with a good transmission, the 99+ intake manifold and a 62mm throttle body. It is interesting that the HP came out to about the same as just the Intake / injector mod. But the Torque come out much higher. As for the seat feel the acceleration feels like a sports car. As soon as I figure out how to get permitions to post a picture I will post the Dyno sheet.

    I have made a copy of my Dyno Sheet available from My Web Site. It is just a quick and dirty link to a file on my Web Server.


    http://perra-us.net/Jeep%20Photos/Dyno%20Run%202006-06-29.htm

    .
    95 ZJ
    4.7 Stroker
    2.5" head pipe, 3" Cat, mufler and Tail Pipe
    99 + Intake manifold now here
    62mm TB now here

    265x75xR16 BFG AT/KO
    American Racing 16" Wheels
    4.11 axel ratio
    Trutrac Locker rear / Trutrac Limited slip Front

    Oh, and a 3" lift
     

  20. #45 Re: 4.0L 99+ intake manifold swap with REAL DYNO NUMBERS! 
    Senior Member DJJordache's Avatar
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    it's kinda hard to read....I was thinkin since your using the stock TB you should bore out the bottom part and make it 60mm all the way through until you get around to getting a 62mm that you want.
    here is a how to from GoJeep:
    http://www.go.jeep-xj.info/HowtoTBboring.htm
    93' ZJ 4.7L STROKER, Clayton LONGARMS, 4wd conversion, 231 SYE, HPD30, 8.8, BFG 35's, 2000 manifold & injectors, Hesco fpr, Port & polish, LS1 valves, WJ Steering/brakes, KOR SliderZ & steering box brace, Clayton TB bracket and my custom trackbar, Crane ignition, B&M cooler, Tom Woods, etc....
    Quote Originally Posted by Krash80 View Post
    We're all insane here...
     

  21. #46 Re: 4.0L 99+ intake manifold swap with REAL DYNO NUMBERS! 
    Junior Member Dperra's Avatar
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    Actually I have the Late model Intake. It came with a throttle body that is in process of being bored out to 62mm. There is a guy in South Dakota that does this for $60.
    95 ZJ
    4.7 Stroker
    2.5" head pipe, 3" Cat, mufler and Tail Pipe
    99 + Intake manifold now here
    62mm TB now here

    265x75xR16 BFG AT/KO
    American Racing 16" Wheels
    4.11 axel ratio
    Trutrac Locker rear / Trutrac Limited slip Front

    Oh, and a 3" lift
     

  22. #47 Re: 4.0L 99+ intake manifold swap with REAL DYNO NUMBERS! 
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    I'm going to put an '05 manifold onto my 96 ZJ and was reading through all these post (kinda confused).

    Looks like:

    '05 injectors have a different electrical hookup ?
    Need more pressure at the rail then my set up ?

    Better just to swap my current '96 injectors into the new manifold for the ease of install..or should it be worth the extra effort to use the newer injectors ?
    96 ZJ 4.0 4.5 RE LongArm 8.8 Rear
    Price is soon forgotten, Quality is not
     

  23. #48 Re: 4.0L 99+ intake manifold swap with REAL DYNO NUMBERS! 
    Junior Member Dperra's Avatar
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    Take a look at the following web site about building a stroker.

    http://www.jeep4.0performance.4mg.com/stroker.html

    There is a lot of information about injectors.
    95 ZJ
    4.7 Stroker
    2.5" head pipe, 3" Cat, mufler and Tail Pipe
    99 + Intake manifold now here
    62mm TB now here

    265x75xR16 BFG AT/KO
    American Racing 16" Wheels
    4.11 axel ratio
    Trutrac Locker rear / Trutrac Limited slip Front

    Oh, and a 3" lift
     

  24. #49 Re: 4.0L 99+ intake manifold swap with REAL DYNO NUMBERS! 
    Senior Member DJJordache's Avatar
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    96+ have it easy for this swap, but don't seem to gain as much.
    the 96+ engines already have 49psi at the rail so you don't have to do anything to the fuel rail. You also have the newer power steering pump style and bracket setup already there.

    I'm not sure what the pressures are for the 05 injectors were...but yes you can install your stock ones and be just fine. if you wanted to use the 05 ones you might have to trim the hookup area on the injector to slide on your connector. I don't know for sure if the 96 started the other style of injector hookup.
    I had to modify mine because my stock injector hookups were rectangle and the 99+ ones I used were square, so I just trimmed part of the square on the injector and ziptied the connectors to stay on.
    injector specs that I do know of from Dino:
    '96-'98 #53030778 23.2lb/hr @ 49psi
    '99-'01 #04854181 22.5lb/hr @ 49psi
    so the 05 might be the same as the 99-01 but I can't say for sure, and might not be since they seem to change every few years...
    93' ZJ 4.7L STROKER, Clayton LONGARMS, 4wd conversion, 231 SYE, HPD30, 8.8, BFG 35's, 2000 manifold & injectors, Hesco fpr, Port & polish, LS1 valves, WJ Steering/brakes, KOR SliderZ & steering box brace, Clayton TB bracket and my custom trackbar, Crane ignition, B&M cooler, Tom Woods, etc....
    Quote Originally Posted by Krash80 View Post
    We're all insane here...
     

  25. #50 Re: 4.0L 99+ intake manifold swap with REAL DYNO NUMBERS! 
    BANNED Lifetime Supporter CurtP's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JPZJ
    I'm going to put an '05 manifold onto my 96 ZJ and was reading through all these post (kinda confused).

    Looks like:

    '05 injectors have a different electrical hookup ?
    Need more pressure at the rail then my set up ?

    Better just to swap my current '96 injectors into the new manifold for the ease of install..or should it be worth the extra effort to use the newer injectors ?
    Yes, the newer injectors have a different connector on them. You don't need a different pressure to run them; their flow rate is listed at a different pressure. Why manufacturers do that is beyond me; standard flow rate is typically listed @ 43.5psi. When replacing injectors, it's good to know what the stock ones are rated (and at what PSI) to match them as closely to aftermarket ones. When converted to 43.5psi, the factory injectors on the pre-'98 4.0 is around 21#/hr - at least the ones in the '96-'98 ZJ's are.

    You don't need to run the newer injectors - it won't give you anything unless your original injectors are in bad shape (poor spray pattern, large flow imbalances, clogged, etc). The computer will compensate for slightly larger or slightly smaller injectors by modifying the pulse rate to the injectors.

    One thing to keep in mind is many aftermarket injectors are pintle injectors. I personally won't run them since they tend to foul easily (mainly by carbon buildup). Disc injectors are a better choice - they're self-cleaning, they have a better spray pattern, are more constant and are easier to flow-match. Some pintle injector manufacturers have bandaged the problem by installing a cap to keep carbon off the pintle - it helps, but doesn't prevent the problem entirely. The good side to pintle injectors is they're cheap and can be made to flow huge amounts of fuel. I don't think there's a disc injector out there that can flow over 50#/hr (all I could find only flowed up to 42#/hr).

    So in short - keep your stock injectors unless they're either in poor shape or you're stroked. If you want to replace them with disc injectors that drop in, then Lucas/Delphi make some nice ones that are only slightly more expensive than many pintle injectors, and they make them in 21#/hr (http://www.racetronix.com).
     

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