Project "MONEY PIT"

[Cue-Ball]

Yea if you could shoot me a vid. that would be great.

When I got the stroker there was 5,000 miles on it already so there was no break in required.

Dirk

[Cue-Ball]

arn't you still breaking in your stroker and that might explin the higher "bearing wear" numbers?

and honesty I have a Autometer Ultra-Lite A/F meter and I wouldn't bother since it doesn't say much... if you want I can get you a video of mine in action if you want to see what it will do...
BUT it does have lots of pretty flashing lights that flicker around and change colors

oh and if you saw my after dyno sheet on my intake writeup I am running MUCH leaner (no pinging though) than I was before my 99+ fuel system setup and my a/f gauge is still pegged on rich under WOT

I think Ptowntsi had a triple a while back and I dunno if he sold it yet... I'm making a triple for my brothers XJ by grafting on a old pod from a wrecked buddies civic and fiberglassing it to the XJ pillar.

lemme know and I'll make you a vid of my a/f gauge
edit to add pic

So are you saying that I should save my $60+ for the gauge, $50ish for a tripple A pillar mount, and the days worth of my time to install it all?

Another buddy of mine just get a wideband he is going to be installing soon, but I think he paid like $380 shipped for it, it is nice and all but damn.

There is a place here sort of local to me that does dyno tuning on race cars, street tuners, baja trucks, etc. but they want $130 an hour for dyno tuning and they think it is like 2-3 hours to do. Again $$$$.

[DJJordache]

well kinda... if I could go back and not get the a/f gauge I wouldn't have and gotten another gauge. I have the A/f, trans temp, and vacuum/boost gauges, i have no boost but when I got them they didn't have a vac only gauge..
I'm working on school stuff right now and will get your vid a little later but basicly while cruising it flickers from lean to rich kinda like that pic I attatched and about the same speed too. when I go WOT it stays pegged at rich. if I'm cruising at high speed and let off it goes lean for a few and then resumes the flickering again....
it realy doesn't tell you much and is more of a ricer mod kinda and won't tell you near the data that a wideband or even a dyno would. the dyno would be the best since they show what HP/TQ you were getting at what rpm and what fuel ratio and curve at that same rpm. look at my intake swap writeup to see an example of the dyno fuel curve.
I'm still working on school crap right now and will try and get the vid soon

[Cue-Ball]

No rush, you are right it does seem like a useless gauge to have.

Damn maybe I will just have to break the bank and go for an Apexi tuner or a wideband. Does the wideband allow you to tweak the computer or is it just for display to let you know what's going on??

If you have not noticed this is all greek to me.

[napajeep]

Hey there Dirk. A wideband is just a sensor, will not allow tweaking of the mixture, just tells what it is. Will have to look, but Hypertech may make something that would allow tuning, not sure if its available for a 96 though. I'll get back to you on that.

Scott

[Cue-Ball]

Yea I know Hypertech has a programmer but not sure if it able to tweak the A/F mixture or not.

Looking like the Apexi is the thing to get, but at close to $400 not sure I can swing that anytime soon.

[violatedppl]

now someone needs to make a nice order of amsoil, and let dirk get his rig running right

[DJJordache]

it would be nice if you were OBDI, I would just say make a adjustable map sensor and richen it up a tad to get rid of the pinging, but you would still probably need a dyno run to be SURE the mixture is right and not too lean or rich, but since your OBDII I don't know if it would work....check on JU under the speedfreaks I'm pretty sure I remember someone on there has a writeup on the Apexi install, but I don't remember it it was a I6 or v8.

[Cue-Ball]

Yea I check speed freeks alot. THe only issue with the Apexi is it is close to $400.

[Cue-Ball]

now someone needs to make a nice order of amsoil, and let dirk get his rig running right

Amen to that.

[Cue-Ball]

Well spent the day working on the Heep today. I will get some pix off the camera later and post them up on Monday (not sure how to resize them with the software my wife uses at home).

Anyway here is a list of the stuff I attempted and accomplished today:

• Replaced cracked stock radiator with new 3-core all metal one.
• Replaced stock trans cooler with B&M Supercooler (will move the stock cooler to the opposite side of the Supercooler later and uses as a power steering cooler.
• Replaced waterpump with new one from Kragen, added a FlowKooler plate to the impeller for better flow.
• Ran some Engine sealant in the system before installing new 180* t-stat. This will hopefully seal up the head gasket and help with the coolant contamination in the oil (we will see in a few weeks when I run another sample.
• Attempted to install the Taurus e-fan, Problem is it did not fit, the back of the fan hit the front of the water pump and pulley. It was really hot up here today and when I got it all together and the fan did not fit, I gave up on it for today and installed the stock one for now.

I need to wrench on it again next weekend (the timing cover I was having shipped in did not arrive, so I need to pull the fan again next weekend to replace the timing cover, I will look at the e-fan at that time as it is something I think is worthwhile doing.

When all was said and done I took it for a test run and it was actually running at 210* or just over that, not eactly sure what the means, I was hoping it would run under 200* but it is what it is. I will check the coolant level in the morning once it has cooled down, I think it might be low as I am not sure if I waited until the t-stat opened when I was filling it up.

I am also running roughly a 70w/30coolant mix, maybe I should have just done a 50/50.

I have some good pix of the FlowKooler plate that I will post up once I resixze the pix, I also have some good ones of the e-fan showing the fitment and the brackets I made to hold it in place.

I tell you it is always something isn't it.

Dirk

[DJJordache]

(not sure how to resize them with the software my wife uses at home).

if she uses XP you can go to MS and get a resizer that will integrate in windows, it's great just install and then just right click on the image or images for resize options I used to use this when I had a 32 bit system but they don't make one yet for us 64 bit peeps:
microsoft powertoys

I run about 70/30 and a bottle of snakeoil... i mean waterwetter. another option for the fan is to modify the fan clutch like on mine. I almost never see 210 or even 200much and thats only for sitting in traffic at idle for a long while with the a/c on full blast

[zj-monster]

I have a Autometer Ultra-Lite A/F meter and I wouldn't bother since it doesn't say much...it does have lots of pretty flashing lights that flicker around and change colors

I had one on my Camaro. I eventualy had to remove the damn thing as it was seriously distracting my driving.

[Cue-Ball]

another option for the fan is to modify the fan clutch like on mine. I almost never see 210 or even 200much and thats only for sitting in traffic at idle for a long while with the a/c on full blast

What did you do to the fan clutch???

I also run water wetter.

[DJJordache]

There have been several posts about overheating and ideas how to stop. Most of which I have tried like electric fans, cleaning the radiator with every known chemical, professional radiator cleaning, different fan clutches, larger radiators, louvers in the hood, ect. Still in stop and go traffic the engine would get hot. I am determined to be able to run the A/C full blast in heavy traffic in high humidity and hot weather above 100F!!!!!!!! Just call me fussy but it’s hot in Texas.

I had previously changed the original fan clutch to a new heavy-duty design clutch. While this helped, it still was not the solution.

This is the original setting of the thermostatic spring as purchased from the Auto Store. As the spring heats up, the center shaft, which is actually a valve to restrict oil flow, rotates counter clockwise. The more it rotates, the tighter the fan locks up.


You note that the spring can be removed from its locked position. In this position, the clutch is almost locked solid, as we have rotated the center valve shaft the full 90 degrees counter clock wise.


What I did is I cut the spring down so that the preset is now 45 degrees greater, or more toward the locked position to increase air flow. A small drop of glue secures this position.


ok now after having this setup for a while now I'd say it rocks! It actually unlocks like it should, locks when it gets warm, and cycles once the engine is cooler again. basicly the way the clutch SHOULD work when new
FYI this is a HD Hayden I got from Oreilly's and it sucked right outta the box, so with a little tweakin it works great at cooling

**********************
oh and it has been modified again since these pics are from when I first did it because it made it stay locked up all the time, I just trimmed off a little more (to turn the center pivot closer to unlock) and rebent it to fit into the new slot I made before

[zj-monster]

What I did is I cut the spring down

About how much of the spring did you cut? (1/8 inch or centimeter?)

[Cue-Ball]

Thanks Jordan,

So you are saying to move the end of the spring COUNTER clockwise to the 1/2 a turn, correct?

I am sure mine is just a stock fan clutch, but will look at that more when I pull it next weekend for the timing cover. This will also give me a little time driving it to see what temp it is running at.

Another questions is on the trans cooler, do you know if those 90* rubber lines right off the cooler are a dealer only item? Kragens did not have anything like that and mine are the stock ones and showing some signs of age.

One other issue I had when replacing the raditaor was the quick connect trans line on the bottom of the radiator, was a PITA to get it off and onto the new one, I think I need to pick up a new little plastic connector, may just try to pick up those 90* hoses and plastic thing at the dealer this week as I am not sure if Kragen has the plastic thing either. Not sure but I think it is leaking just a tad from that lower trans connector.

Another thing I would like to do is have some new trans lines made up as the stock hard lines have some funky bends in them going between the radiator and the aux cooler, and one of my rubber hoses on the return line where I have my temp sender is sorta ghetto fab. Will need to lay it out and have some new hard lines bent up and some nice rubber hoses made with the nice high pressure hose ends.

I think I also want to add another temp sender so I can switch between the two, one for before the cooler and one for after just to be extra sure everything is working correctly.

Anyway, more to follow.

Dirk

[Cue-Ball]

Another question, is there a reason that the fan even has a clutch? What if it was 'lockedup' all the time??

[DJJordache]

About how much of the spring did you cut? (1/8 inch or centimeter?)

crap I know someone would ask this... I don't remember exactly how much, I kinda did it as a test that worked!
Lets say that according to the pics if stock(unlocked) is 12:00 and locked up is 9:00 I think I made it about 11:00 I think, I'd have to pull it to be sure.... maybe I'll pull it and take some pics on wednesday(I have a final on Tuesday night) This mod makes it come on earlier and stronger, but it still cycles like it should.

You don't want it full locked up all the time b/c it really sucks the HP: in my intake swap thread, I dynoed a locked up clutch vs a unlocked one. the locked up clutch pulled 12hp (on a dyno) which means about 18HP at the crank.

when I did my radiator I could not get that dumb connector back on at all! I just said screw it and cut off the quick connector and clamped the hose to the tube I have had no leaks for years.

the auto shop should have some 90degree preformed bends, or the dealer...I might have one or so in good condition if you can't find one.

[rccolacc]

Another question, is there a reason that the fan even has a clutch? What if it was 'lockedup' all the time??

I'm sure people have done it. I think I've seen actual locked clutches you can buy for the 4.0 to do just that-- lock the fan to the waterpump pulley. You could do that, but you're Jeep would have pretty bad gas mileage and the engine would be at a loss for power. The rotational mass of the fan pulling in air really sucks power from the engine. It just doesn't want to rev as fast when that fan pulls. I think you'd be dissappointed with the engine performance after doing it. The engine would run cooler though I bet.
-RC

[rccolacc]

A few more thoughts on this whole cooling thing:
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I was under the impression engines are made to run at a certain temp. When you first start up the motor it runs rich until the engine is at that certain temp (the temp of the thermostat or around it anyway). Lets say the 4.0 has a 190 tstat. The computer runs the motor rich until it gets up to 190 or so. If you mess with the tstat (put in a 160 or remove it all together) or run the fan all the time, the motor will run rich longer trying to warm itself up. Not that any of this really matters-- I mean the motor running rich a little while is going to foul plugs and affect gas mileage, but it might be worth it to fix cooling issues in hot weather. Especially if all your Jeep sees is warm weather. I wanted to say that to say it. Nothing's wrong with running a cooler tstat (I do) or running the fan all the time, but I just wanted to throw that out there.

Another thing: I saw Cue-Ball mention the water/coolant mixture he had on his Jeep, and that more % coolant might be better. I learned in Thermodynamics class not long ago that the coolant only raises the boiling temp (and lowers the freezing temp). The water has much better cooling properties than the coolant. More coolant and less water would probably do worse for your cooling. In the summer I run more water than coolant, but as soon as it gets winter around here I put more coolant in to keep it from freezing.
Hope this helps.
-RC

[Cue-Ball]

when I did my radiator I could not get that dumb connector back on at all! I just said screw it and cut off the quick connector and clamped the hose to the tube I have had no leaks for years.

This is why I LOVE this site.

Why didn't I think of that. You simply cut the end off the hose and used a hose clap. Man all I can say it it was really hot here yesterday and without a garage I was baked so thinking of that would have been too taxing on my brain at the time. Will check to see if it is really leaking this week and if so I will do the clamp deal.

[Cue-Ball]

You don't want it full locked up all the time b/c it really sucks the HP: in my intake swap thread, I dynoed a locked up clutch vs a unlocked one. the locked up clutch pulled 12hp (on a dyno) which means about 18HP at the crank.

So if I were to get the e-fan going I would possibly gain 10hp +/-??

Leaning towards getting the e-fan going and calling it good. I will try to mount the fan at the bottom of the rad. next weekend see how that fits.

[DJJordache]

thats why I installed a 2 ton AC unit in the garage when yo ucut off that connector don't throw it away if its like mine the oring inside it is HARD to find and it is also the same oring that is on the transmission side which you said you had a leak, take the oring out of the one you cut off and put it in the connector on the transmission, thats what I did, transmission line leak fixed.

yeah it pulled 12 at the wheels when it was lockedup (keep in mind that no good condition fan clutch is truely locked up, it more like 70-80% of shaft speed) I'd say try the efan and see how you like it, i have not done the taurus fan yet b/c I found this as an easy fix

[Cue-Ball]

No more leaks on the tranny, that is LONG since been fixed. The only possible leak spot is at the bottom of the radiator, just not sure if it was some dribbles from the cooler and what not.

But good call I will keep the end if I have to do that.