Project Hugs Version 4.0

[Yjsaabman717]

Well, it's mobile and complete. Buttoned up all the welding and such in my buddy's shop today. Seam sealed the crap out of all the joints, and threw some paint on things to seal it up. Rear bumper is back on and trimmed up on the right side. The bigger wheel wells make the 32s look quite small! The 5 speed feels good, though I think the clutch may need a bleed, or one of the cylinders is failing. Pedal engagement is very close to the floor and reverse grinds at times.

Sadly the brakes are terrible. I tried a fluid flush, but couldn't get the RR bleeder screw loose. So a wheel cylinder is definitely in the cards, but I feel a master cylinder may be, as well. I think a seal stuck while it was sitting and tore. No leaks, as I used a pressure bleeder, so that's good.

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[Gearjammer]

On my 5 speed ZJ I wad to put a slight bend in the clutch pedal to allow it to get full travel without the pedal bottoming out on the floor. After I did this the clutch engagement point moved up to a reasonable level. A previous owner did the conversion so I don't know where they sourced the clutch pedal from.

[Yjsaabman717]

Thanks for the tip. I'll check mine to see if it's hitting the floor, or not. The grinding occurs after a few shifts, notnall the time. That's why I'm a little worried about the hydraulics, which supposedly were replaced recently

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[Yjsaabman717]

On my 5 speed ZJ I wad to put a slight bend in the clutch pedal to allow it to get full travel without the pedal bottoming out on the floor. After I did this the clutch engagement point moved up to a reasonable level. A previous owner did the conversion so I don't know where they sourced the clutch pedal from.

Do you have any pics of your pedal setup? Mine is, indeed, hitting the floor. But looking at things it almost looks like the XJ pedals are too long. Now, that wouldn't totally fix the issue, as the bend in the pedal has left an indent in the carpet, but it may help. If I do the clutch I'll want to adjust the brake pedal, too. Otherwise they'll be really goofy to each other. I may still try a simple bleeding of the hydraulics first.

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[Yjsaabman717]

Oh, and a rough measurement in my uneven driveway shows close to 3" of gained clearance at the rocker panel vs the factory pinch weld. I'll have to get it on an even surface to get an accurate measurement.

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[Yjsaabman717]

New wheel cylinder on hand and I hope to be installing it this afternoon and bleed the brakes and clutch. Also got a new shift knob off Ebay that's not going to be as cold as the aluminum ball the swap came with. And on the note of cold, I dug into the heated seat wiring and think I can make it work with another switched 12V signal on the K-Bus circuit after testing the signal on my current BMW.

I also saved all the side cladding, though I haven't put it back on, yet. One or two of the mounting brackets is broken, so I'll have to make a trip to the junkyard and see if I can find replacements. I wasn't sure I wanted to reuse it, but I really think it makes the look. Once the other side is done it will time for a paint update and I'm really leaning towards a desert tan with the cladding and bumpers blacked out. I've got a few other appearance tricks up my sleeve to make it stand out from the crowd.

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[Yjsaabman717]

Well new wheel cylinder is in, and the line on that side of the axle has been replaced, too. The nuts came free from the block and wheel cylinder, but wouldn't spin on the line. The pedal pumps up a bit, now, but still feels crappy. Makes me hopeful I can just bleed it out better and get my pedal back. The right rear was a bit loose on the adjustment, also, so I'll be checking the left side, because that could be part of the issue, as well. I did not get a chance to bleed to clutch today, though.

Oth, I got the heated seats working today! Spent some down time at work this past week doing some research and figured out it's a pulsed 12V single wire Bus to wake it up. So I probed that line on my current BMW and found kt to mostly be a constant 12V with very little pulse. So I stuck the bare wire into the switched 12V and checked it out, victory! A solid 12V wakes it up and I have functioning seat heaters!

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[Gearjammer]

Do you have any pics of your pedal setup?

Here's a couple pic's of what I've got. It looks like my clutch pedal is hitting the carpet when I shift too, I don't have issues with shifting anymore though.

[Yjsaabman717]

Well yours definitely isn't an XJ pedal setup! Thanks for the pics. I really think mine just needs a good bleeding after being moved all around while it was out of the vehicle. A couple of pumps of the pedal seems to guarantee no grinding.

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[Yjsaabman717]

Pulled the LR drum today, adjustment was definitely loose and the adjuster lock wasn't even against the adjuster. Didn't make much difference, though. Gave a visual inspection around the MC and the booster is all peeling from brake fluid weeping out for years. New brake MC and new adjuster hardware on order, should be here by the end of this week.

With all that in mind I've only ever had the ABS kick on once or twice, and I don't really care if it's there or not, so I decided to remove it. I did a bunch of reading about ABS deletes on ZJs, MJs, and XJs before diving in. I also read a bunch about the proportioning/bias valves. After pulling the MC and prop(ortioning) valve out as a unit, I removed the ABS pump assembly. On the bench I separated the prop valve and MC and investigated the prop valve. It appears the non-ABS XJs have the other front line coming out the back of the prop valve. I pulled the cap back there and confirmed mine has the double valve prop valve, so that's not an option.

Further investigation revealed that the input and output lines for the ABS pump were all the same bubble flare. While the thread pitch appears to be 24, a quick diameter check with an open end wrench reveals it is actually m10x1.0 with a bubble flare, much more common. So with some more knowledge from my research, and some adjustment of the lines, I should be able to connect everything with no cutting and flaring. Just an m10x1.0 coupler for the rear circuit and an m10x1.0 tee fitting for the front circuit.

While the pump and module came out easily, as did the fuses and relay, the wiring is going to be more of a challenge to clean up. It's all integrated into the main vehicle harness. I may leave some of it in place to rum future accessories through the factory fuse block, but I would like to strip out the bulk of it.

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[BCWildman]

Here's a couple pic's of what I've got. It looks like my clutch pedal is hitting the carpet when I shift too, I don't have issues with shifting anymore though.

On my pedals, I was tired of my foot sliding off the clutch pedal so I welded the auto foot pad to the clutch lever. Nice having a big meaty clutch pedal!

[Yjsaabman717]

All parts came in for the weekend, woot! Here's hoping this gets it all squared away. New MC with reservoir, new drum adjuster kits, and the unions I need to eliminate the ABS unit. The tee fitting actually came from an aircooled VW place.

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[Yjsaabman717]

Well, I'm not really sure where to go or what to do at this point point. Bench bled and i stalled the new master cylinder, installed the fittings for my ABS delete, and bled the system. It's definitely moving fluid, and I got a bunch of air out, but the pedalnis still low and kinda soft. Pumps up well when not running, but once the booster kicks in it gets very low.

Thinking back through things the only that changed in the brake system was the pedal cluster, and I had to add a tab to engage the brake light switch. So maybe the pedal ratio is different? I still have the old brake pedal around so I disassembled it and held it up next the XJ brake pedal...and it's the same. Or at least close enough that it shouldn't be causing any issues.

The LF bleeder is very stiff, but it does seem to open and close ok. I was bleeding by myself using the power seat motor to depress the pedal, but it seemed to do a good job of things. Maybe it's a problem in the proprtioning valve?

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[Yjsaabman717]

Pic of the ABS delete. (Yes, the booster looks like crap. It has been sprayed with rust converter.)



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[Yjsaabman717]

Went for another round of brake bleeding over the weekend. Was going well until the LF caliper where the bleeder screw had been stiff. This time no dice, it just rounded off. Eff it! Replaced both front calipers and got a wheel cylinder for the other side I hadn't already replaced. Well, the line is seized in the wheel cylinder. FML. Good news is the pedal pumps up nice and firm with the engine off, now. Bad news is that wheel cylinder is weeping a bit and the bbn pedal still feels crap with engine on.

I also fixed the seal between the master and the booster. I noticed it was leaking vacuum, and that is no good.

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[Yjsaabman717]

I'm about to burn this thing to the ground over this brake issue. Replaced the rear flex hose with a braided hose for 4-6" lift for an XJ, and it worked out nicely. Also I stalled some 4-6" lift front braided hoses as they were the cheapest I could find. Seem to fit decently, and I tied them out of the way to the shock body with a ziptie. All of the hoses are DOT approved and came from Rough Country. I also ended up replacing the front hard lines from my tee splice to the hoses because they simply were not going to come out. Bled the system, same bloody result.

Last ditch effort to get something going I took the o-ring off the piston in the proportioning valve. This should send full pressure immediately to the rears cause them to grab quick and hard. Bled things out and took it for a drive, not change. The pedal is still low and soft, and the braking is lousy. I'm starting to think I have a bad M/C out of the box.

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[Ken L]

Since it pumps up hard with the engine off, have you looked at the booster? Sounds like that is the only thing that isn't new in the whole brake system, it may be the source of your issues. Just a WAG.

[Yjsaabman717]

Since it pumps up hard with the engine off, have you looked at the booster? Sounds like that is the only thing that isn't new in the whole brake system, it may be the source of your issues. Just a WAG.

It does not pump up hard when the engine is off. There is still a good amount of travel in the pedal when it is pumped with the engine off.

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[Ken L]

Sorry. I misunderstood. Just trying to help. I have electrical demons to exorcize from mine, so I know how frustrating things that should be simple are when they just don't cooperate.

[Yjsaabman717]

No, I appreciate the input. It pumps up some, but not the same as my other vehicles, which it should. I thought it was pumping up before, but when I compared it I realized that it's not pumping up enough.

I've also never seen a failed booster cause a low/spongy pedal. Usually a failed booster doesn't apply assist causing a hard pedal and extra effort. I did have a vacuum leak between the master and the booster, but I got that fixed.

It's just frustrating because I've replaced pretty much the entire hydraulic system, now, and it's still crap. I bench bled the hell out of the new master before installing it, I'm just at a loss. It moves fluid through all circuits when bleeding, though the rear doesn't have much pressure. It also shouldn't have as much as the front due to the proportioning valve, so I wasn't too concerned. But now that it's still crap with the prop valve disabled, I'm starting to think it's a bad master.

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[Ken L]

There was an upgrade that I saw a while back--talking a couple of years, using a different master cylinder that has more fluid for more positive stops. I believe part of the driver for going to the different master cylinder was removing the ABS and having upgraded axles and thus upgraded-bigger volume- brakes. I don't remember where I saw that, but that might be an option. It was for a GC though, so it was either here, Jeeps Unlimited or....what the hell was that other forum that we all jumped from when Dave started this board back in '04? Anyway, even though you still have stock brakes with the exception of the ABS delete it might be worth looking at.

You said that the linkage looked to be the right length. Angles/arcs the same to the push rod? Again, just grasping at straws here.

[Yjsaabman717]

Yeah, pedal is the same.

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[Gearjammer]

This is kind of a long shot, but on your brakes are the rear drums adjusted? I had a 4runner that had a very low pedal that felt like nothing happened until the pedal hit the floor, on it the rear drums had a ton of travel in them before the shoes contacted the drums, this used up most of the pedal travel. Once I adjusted the slop out of the rear drums the brakes worked like they should.

[Yjsaabman717]

This is kind of a long shot, but on your brakes are the rear drums adjusted? I had a 4runner that had a very low pedal that felt like nothing happened until the pedal hit the floor, on it the rear drums had a ton of travel in them before the shoes contacted the drums, this used up most of the pedal travel. Once I adjusted the slop out of the rear drums the brakes worked like they should.

That's what I thought the initial problem was, as they were out of adjustment and wouldn't hold adjustment. Something I've run into numerous times when people have replaced the shoes and not adjusted them properly afterwards. I even replaced the adjuster hardware to make sure they would hold their adjustment. Thanks for your input!

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[Yjsaabman717]

I'll add that in my experience improperly adjusted rear drums usually result in a two pump pedal. First pump pushes the shoes out, albeit late in the pedal travel. The second pump then properly applies the brakes and firms up the pedal. I don't get that with mine. It's soft and low no matter how many times you pump the pedal. Hence my frustration after having replaced pretty much the entire braking system.

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