My only problem with GSW-Moab is the heat and I would like it to be in a cooler time of the year. I've only attended once but I had a great time. The idea of Grands only is what attracted me to the event, but if attendance is dropping off then I agree with Stealth Crawler ZJ and open it to the non-Wrangler models.
I'm not sure if we're still taking input and deliberating or if we're stuck so I will clarify the intent of my comments at the Pizza in the Park and offer a suggestion and see if that changes anything in order to get a decision and move the planning along. My point at the park was to note that attendance was down, mainly through attrition, and Ron (Krash) clarified that our ZJs and WJs are getting old. I offered that to continue our need to grow and I suggested that the ticket was to bring in the WKs and get them participating. I mentioned support for Ken's (Aspen Creek) and Marlin's (Jeepin By Al & 4X Guard) businesses since they cater to WKs. Dave and others have been emphasizing our getting involved and visible on the other forums so that we have a presence. Others suggested and have done trip reports and posted pics. This is actually what I was thinking that we should be doing but there are also a bunch of good ideas coming forward. My suggestion for next year is that we be more active on MC and the other Jeep forums to try and recruit WKs. And for those we convince to show up I think that we need to treat them (and their vehicles) like when we were first starting out, i.e. gently and with encouragement. With this said, I would like to give it more time with just Grands to see if we can build GSW. I also think that after all of the years of debate that we should stick with the first or second week of June until we have a mandate to change. Anyway, please chew on this and feel free to spit it out.
Last edited by Sandy R; 08-28-2013 at 01:55 AM.
My opinion may not matter as much now as it did 5 years ago. I liked the exclusivity of the ZJ/WJ only gathering. But that was when we were what I would consider leading edge in modifying them. The ZJ has become like the XJ and has lost its allure. I think the equivalent would be to take a WK and buggy it. which no one is doing. But if you did fuck it would be awesome.
I think you should open it up to all non wrangler models. Basically focus on what made us “US” which is the unibody jeeps. The dates for me aren’t that big of a deal. I planned on coming to the last GSW until the wedding and company purchase got in the way. The heat is my biggest annoyance though. The last time I went I drank 3 gallons of water and spent a ton of time in Doc’s WJ with the AC cranked. I just can’t deal with wheeling in the 100+ weather. I have some friends that I went with in May and it was only in the 90’s. It was incredible how much more enjoyable it was.
I think you will see an influx of participation in the upcoming years if you opened it to all Unibody vehicles. A, you can focus on the hardcore modification like before. B, there is a larger split happening in the wheeling world. Guys are building to race or building to trail wheel. Trail wheeling in a buggy is expensive.
I personally question that rock crawling, buggies, and the extreme built trail rigs are really where the core of the grand crowd is these days. If we want more people, I think we simply need to identify who our target is and taylor the event more towards them. There will always be a core group of guys that want to go out and do harder trails, but offering more scenic trails and easy to moderate trails where people can experience Moab without stressing about destroying their 30-50k SUV would probably bring in more grand owners in that WK/WKII group.
in the past 3 GSW how many closer to stock rigs were there on the trails?
The last few rigs the vast majority of the rigs have been in the 33-37" tire range, only a handful on 32's. Can't remember anyone on 31's anytime recently.
I think having it a little earlier would be nice just because it would be cooler generally. Maybe we could make more of an expedition style trip in June /July?
I think the fact that most rigs at recent GSW's are in the 31-37 range is more a reflection of repeat participants. If our goal is to cater to the build grand cherokees out there, then this is the participation we will get. If we want to increase memberships while keeping it grand exclusive, then we need to cater to newer grand cherokee owners. Shit, in 99/2000 I remember threads on JU from Phil Smith saying 33's was the absolute limit of a ZJ. Even though WK/WK2's aren't that built now doesn't mean a few of them won't evolve over the course of time. Then again, the WK/WK2 is a different animal than the ZJ/WJ was....but that's ok.
There are multiple problems with the "expedition" style trip in June/July. For one, we would have to find some sort of ultimate goal to make it an expedition. I guess we could contact a reservation about what we could do down there...maybe build a school or something....but I'm not sure that is really what people are looking for. We could go "overland", only the permit requirements for a week plus of commercially lead trails across BLM, STLA, NF, and private would be cumbersome.
so if we try to shoot for the WK/WkII crowd then you might be able to get some more of the lower level zjs/ wjs. one thing that people may get is if they come to this site see the typical rigs that are on here, they might expect GSW to be more towards those more built rigs rather then everyone. would it hurt to post pictures of different leveled runs?
i.e. show pictures for the levels or rigs that would be doing the harder ones. like one of rigs on the Rock Chucker. and just have the levels go down from there. so some people that haven't been ot moab get an idea of where they can go or so they know there would be rigs at their level too.
I agree that making the trip reports more appealing to everyone would be helpful. I think at this point so many of us have done the same trails so many times that we don't really break out the camera for some of that, so we may have to go a few years back to get some of those pictures.
If Scott got his act, I mean quad copter together, we could have some awesome videos too!
If it weren't for frigging eBay he would've had it together!
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how many go pros were out on the trails? my buddy put together maybe the same quad copter thing he also put a stabilizer on it the only problem is the batteries last for about 7 mins
here is the video he made with it you'll see some shots with it http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6iZx6hRbHjE that was the first time he took the VW out so he wanted to use all his cameras (he works for gopro)
Here is my $0.02 worth. If we are going to grow it bigger, we need to have more trail leaders to keep the rig count reasonable also we need leaders for the extreme trails if we want to keep the 37's + interested. I would like to see the event opened to other rigs types and if we are going to do XJ's why not the Wranglers and Tacoma's too? I understand the unibody thing, but once we are not a Grand only it might as well be any capable safe rig. For me it is about wheeling with friends in Moab!
If we open the event up to other rig types it also makes us more appealing to vendors for advertising and door prises. However if we continue to do door prises I am thinking that Sandy is going to need more help. Or maybe we skip the door prizes as I don't think anyone goes to it for them.
We we could call it the Moab Grand Adventure with an emphasis on Grands, but not exclusive.
Any way we do it we will need to offer more scenic less damage potential trails to get some new participants that want to get a feel for what they can do with what ever rig they have. I am good with that as I am swapping my body for a '98 after hunting season in November and I really don't want to bend/tweak that body as I am to a point in life that while I like some building, I want to wheel and enjoy what I built.
I don't mind leading, but found this year that three hard trails in a row was taxing and I probably should have done a moderate or the scenic La Sal's on Saturday for a break as I have never been up there. This is on my list now as well as some trails in Northern UT a couple of hours east of SLC.
As we get new participants, hopefully some can become trail leaders too or help out in other ways. I am am all for growing the event as long as we have help and I believe that we would have the help. Even businesses that need to grow have to change and sometimes rebuild or rethink their model as their customer base changes. We will always have to have the fee as we have a great trusting relationship with the BLM and I don't think any of us want to loose that as groups and events like ours are what counteract the bozos that break the rules and jeprodize our open trails.
Ok I am coming to the party late, but but better late then never. Five Months since the last post to this thread..
I voted to moving to April/May, I can not recall off the top of my head why I missed 2011, but 2013, I was working as a campground host and that started mid May and was to last until mid Sept (Didn't for me, but that is another story) and I WILL be at the 2014 GSW. I am retired, so you would think that timing would not be an issue, but as you can see with my Campground Hosting there was a conflict.
When I first got into Grands I had a WK, but the wife convinced me to trade it for a Town & Country Van, but before that I had joined MC & NAGA and so I went out and bought a 98ZJ which I took to GSW 2009 and 2010 and had a outstanding time. But about that time my local wheeling area was shut down and a lot to time was spend there restoring trails and working with WA DNR to try and get some trails opened back up and in the process I lost interest in Wheeling and Bought a Motor Home, sold my tow rig and trailer and after spending last (2012/2013) winter in Arizona and not being able to wheel places there because I had towed my PT Cruiser, when I got home I started looking and bought a WJ to tow with the Motor Home, so I could wheel at least the easy trails in the areas I traveled to.
The WJ will lift wise be staying stock for towing with the Motor Home, but I know from passed time in Moab that there are lots of easy trails/roads it will safely accommodate and those are some that you have added to GSW this year, which makes me happy, but I would have been there anyway and gone out on my own if that was what I had to do, and see the other attendees in the evenings or at Drivers Meetings. I think this will help bring in the WK and WKII's to GSW and should be given a couple three years to see how it goes before opening up to Cherokees and/or other rigs.
I am not sure just what you are looking for in the way of Trail Leaders, but if I can help on some of the easy Trails/Roads I am willing to give it my all.
Man I really want to come sounds like fun the dates you posted this year are when we go up for a week at the family cabin so I wouldn't be able to make it. I also just dumped a lot of money in my rig so I might not make it this year anyways but I am hoping maybe next year and if it's as good as I'm hoping for we would probably be die hard regulars since this is the type of thing our family has invested in
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