Thread: New springs comin

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  1. #26 Re: New springs comin 
    Senior Member IndyZJ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AgitatedPancake View Post
    Wait you got a bracket that drops the axle side mount lower? That seems completely counter productive...on the front most drop TB kits drop the frame side to bring the track bar closer to parallel...not further from it. I don't know exactly what's gong on there but stock is definately better than the way ya had it
    Those are the XJ/TJ/ZJ track bar brackets that come with a lot of lifts. It centers the axle at ride height (depending on ride height) and keeps the panhard from hitting the stock mount on droop. But it also puts the bar at an even steeper angle and they do nothing to address the drag link angle. It's a cheap bolt-on solution to a non-existent problem.

    Follow the standard procedure for DW - start inspecting everything. If you don't see any worn or suspicious parts, have somebody start it up and crank the wheel side to side while you look for flex/ movement where it shouldn't be. Did you align it after the lift? Also, consider yourself warned that with only lift springs and shocks you'll eat through stock-type suspension and steering pieces fast.
    re: testy
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  2. #27 Re: New springs comin 
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    Yeah the bump steer is gone but now have DW. Where is my shake coming from. I didnt have DW with the TB dropped. Moved back up and its back? WTH!!!!
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  3. #28 Re: New springs comin 
    Senior Member AgitatedPancake's Avatar
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    Adjustments to the suspension only increase or decrease the noticeability of other worn out parts. It's not that the lift gave you the DW, it's just allowing you to feel the worn out parts more dramatically now. Go through and inspect all your front control arm bushings, track bar bushings, tie rod ends, ball joints and unit bearings. That accounts for just about every wear item in a front suspension
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  4. #29 Re: New springs comin 
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    Quote Originally Posted by AgitatedPancake View Post
    Adjustments to the suspension only increase or decrease the noticeability of other worn out parts. It's not that the lift gave you the DW, it's just allowing you to feel the worn out parts more dramatically now. Go through and inspect all your front control arm bushings, track bar bushings, tie rod ends, ball joints and unit bearings. That accounts for just about every wear item in a front suspension
    do this^^ and then go get an alignment done and make sure you have at least 5* of positive caster
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  5. #30 Re: New springs comin 
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    Hey guys, I thought I was doin good. I went to my buddys garage and the 4 MOOG ball joints I put in around this time last year, 3 are bad. Having them installed by him Thursday AM and going for an alignment Sat AM. All my MOOG parts are just failing with in a year or two. My Rancho 5000's are junk too. Those are 2 years old also. I hardly wheel this thing unless I'm going hunting. I'm not even crawlin over boulders or anything I'd LIKE to do.
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  6. #31 Re: New springs comin 
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    i use factory balljoints, most factory ones last about 10 years, much of moogs stuff is made in china now, their quality has taken a dive
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  7. #32 Re: New springs comin 
    The class retard Lifetime Supporter ajmorell's Avatar
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    I would go Spicer or XRF. I'm running XRF's on my current axle and am happy with them. The Spicers on my last axle went 30k+ and were good when I swapped axles.
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  8. #33 Re: New springs comin 
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    Well I did get the ball joints covered under warranty. I replaced with MOOG again. Most of the wobble is gone. Gonna get an alignment Sat AM. Lets see what happens then. ALL other parts are tight also....
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  9. #34 Re: New springs comin 
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    On stock CA's, My lower cam bolt is maxed out forward. Does this sound right?
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  10. #35 Re: New springs comin 
    Senior Member IndyZJ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1ABrian View Post
    On stock CA's, My lower cam bolt is maxed out forward. Does this sound right?
    That means nothing. You need to put an angle finder on the knuckle/ C to measure caster.

    It's stupid simple to align a solid-axle vehicle yourself. Assuming you have adequate caster adjustment available, it might take 20 minutes.

    Old thread, good link: http://mallcrawlin.com/forum/showthr...ight=alignment
    re: testy
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  11. #36 Re: New springs comin 
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    sweet, looks like I'm on it tonight then Thanks Indy for the link
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  12. #37 Re: New springs comin 
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1ABrian View Post
    On stock CA's, My lower cam bolt is maxed out forward. Does this sound right?
    this does mean something! this means your caster is adjusted the lowest it can be, if the bolt is at the front of the washer, that means your axle has the least caster, you want the most, flip them both so the heads are all the way at the back, should take alot of the wobble out

    -when you get your alignment done, 90% of the people doing dont actually know what caster is, as long as the machine shows green, they think thats good, i like at least 5* positive, on stock arms, at 3 inches you will be between 1 and 5 depending on where your bolts are, (1* acting like a shopping cart, thats your wobble)

    -you really cant have enough caster, if you do too far you will start getting vibes from your front drive shaft because its adjusted in the same matter as caster
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  13. #38 Re: New springs comin 
    Senior Member IndyZJ's Avatar
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    Generally wobble doesn't come from (mis)alignment - it comes from worn or sloppy parts. An alignment (mainly toe-in) may keep wobble at bay by pre-loading steering parts as the vehicle goes down the road and taking that play out. Caster's main job is return-to-center of the steering and keeping the vehicle tracking straight down the road with minimal driver input.

    You can have too much caster - too much caster increases steering effort and puts more stress on the steering box and its mount under normal driving conditions as the steering has to effectively lift the vehicle to turn the wheels. But that's not likely with a lift, stock CAs, and a stock axle. As was said, you'll likely have to compromise some caster to keep vibes down.

    Using an angle finder to adjust caster and the method in the link I posted earlier, you'll be able to align the thing at least as well as the average tire place that's only looking for stock specs. After lifting my ZJ and having aligned by a reputable shop, I had to take caster out of it anyway to keep the front driveshaft from vibrating. Ever since, I've done it myself after realizing how easy it is.

    For your case, you should be able to cheat it within the stock adjustment window and rotate the axle back as far as possible without the front shaft vibrating and still be fine.
    re: testy
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  14. #39 Re: New springs comin 
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    i agree with indy on all accounts, that is the best way to do it, but i am going to respectfully disagree on what caster angle is correct, i have run 8* before with no increased steering effort, no worn out parts, it drives much better than 4-5*

    factory specification from service manual
    Caster:

    Preferred +7°
    Range +6.5°to +7.5°
    -this is recommended with no lift obviously

    -here are my recommendations for caster angles

    on a lifted vehicle the more you lift it, the worse your front pinion angle will become,

    -stock axle- i would run the most caster you can get without having driveline vibrations (this will be in the 5* to 6* range for 4 inches of lift)

    in a perfect world you need to cut the Cs off and point the pinion strait into the driveshaft, then i would set the knuckles up to 8*-10* of positive caster and weld the Cs back on
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  15. #40 Re: New springs comin 
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    Ok guys. Update. I did my own toe alignment. Was definatly off. I fixed that by reading that link http://mallcrawlin.com/forum/showthr...ight=alignment
    I also adjusted my castor cams to center instead of full forward. So far there is a HUGE difference. 98% DW done. Ever so slight (almost non existent)shimmy at about 45 but thats because I'm looking for it now, almost expect it. I'll get my shocks replaced and get tires balanced again and see what happens.
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  16. #41 Re: New springs comin 
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    have some driveline vibe comin from the rear now. Looking like a T case drop. So when T-case plate bolts snap off in the frame, whats a person to do? Any suggestions
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  17. #42 Re: New springs comin 
    The class retard Lifetime Supporter ajmorell's Avatar
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    T-Case drop can work, just realize that while dropping the x-member will help the rear driveshaft angle, it will worsen the front one.
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  18. #43 Re: New springs comin 
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    WTH, really? Will I be back to adjusting the castor cams again?
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  19. #44 Re: New springs comin 
    The class retard Lifetime Supporter ajmorell's Avatar
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    It definitely changes the front angle for the worse, it may be noticeable it may not. I ran a t-case drop for a little while until I could save up for adjustable arms and didn't have any issues with it.
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  20. #45 Re: New springs comin 
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    So at this point Im looking at adjustable lower CA's front and rear to fix the issue?
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  21. #46 Re: New springs comin 
    The class retard Lifetime Supporter ajmorell's Avatar
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    To do it right, you'd want adjustable upper and lowers front and back, but that can get pricey in a hurry. A t-case drop will cost you all of $10 if you source the parts from the hardware store. Start there and see what happens, like I said, it worked ok for me. I may have the 3/4" spacers that came with my t-case drop if you want them. Let me check when I get home.
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  22. #47 Re: New springs comin 
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    To bad I couldnt do a 3/4 ot 1" rear tilt on the t case instead or 3/4 or 1" drop on the entire unit.
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  23. #48 Re: New springs comin 
    The class retard Lifetime Supporter ajmorell's Avatar
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    Yeah, well only tilting the rear would mean somehow modifying the way the output shaft comes out of the front or modifying so the case halves weren't square or something. I'll check to see if I have those spacers tonight
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  24. #49 Re: New springs comin 
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    ive seen a 5 inch lift run stock rear arms (lol i know) with a tcase drop and no vibes, make sure you pinion angle is ok before you do anything
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  25. #50 Re: New springs comin 
    Senior Member IndyZJ's Avatar
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    Did the vibes start immediately with the lift?

    Check the pinion angle and U-joints before potentially buying more parts you don't need. Could be as simple as a worn out U-joint. This is but another use for an angle finder.

    Unfortunately, without clocking the T-case it's impossible to only alter the angle of one output.
    re: testy
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