control arm bushings torn after 1 week

[1ABrian]

I have a 97 JGC with a 3" lift. Stock arms and has been fine for the part 7 years on stock control arms. In the past 3 years, Ive replaced the trac bar with Moog part 3 times. I recently (last Thursday night) replaced all 4 front control arms. Bushings were beat. Pressed out the 2 upper bushings in the axle and installed new Moogs. Reassembled and had aligned. I now have major DW at 48 MPH. Looked under last night to find one of the bushings on pass side axle I pressed in was torn. What is going on. The upper control arms were a bear to put in. these are pressed in and I dont think you can install the wrong. Any suggestions?

[AgitatedPancake]

Were you pressing by the outer ring as to not put pressure on therubber? If I had to guess though, they were probably tightened down with the suspension fully drooped so when it was raised back to ride height the center sleeve twisted itself apart from the rubber. Ideally you want the truck sitting at ride height when giving CA bolts final torque so the center sleeve is clamped into the mounts in a neutral position with no twisting preload.

[BigDaveZJ]

If I had to guess though, they were probably tightened down with the suspension fully drooped so when it was raised back to ride height the center sleeve twisted itself apart from the rubber. Ideally you want the truck sitting at ride height so the center sleeve is clamped into the mounts in a neutral position with no twisting preload.

My first thought as well.

[1ABrian]

CRAP, I did tighten them while I had droopage. Well doesnt that just suck. They were a pain in the ass to put in. 245K. These were stuck pretty good and my oxy tank is empty on my torches. Does this remain the same for the lower arms too?

[AgitatedPancake]

Hopefully these replacements will pop out a bit easier for you, not encrusted haha. Yep the theory is for the lowers also. Any time you have a factory style bushing that has a metal bolt sleeve vulcanized to the rubber, you want its neutral "happy point" to be at ride height. If the rest of the bushings still look to be in good condition they might be OK, just loosen the control arm bolts while at ride height so everything can balance out and sinch them back down

[1ABrian]

well I'll keep you guys posted on what happens. Hopefully I didnt tear the others. Isnt the metal sleeve supposed to pivot or slide inside the bushing? So its just the angle that binds them up?

[AgitatedPancake]

with poly bushings the center sleeve is a seperate unit, but factory rubbers have the sleeve vulcanized in place.

(big pic)
http://www.fototime.com/4F37B9F7C872BAC/orig.jpg

[1ABrian]

So I bought my heep to Steves Jeeps in Epsom NH. All these guys really do is jeeps, lifts, troubleshooting and so on. The tech brought it in and started all the basic suspension inspections.

He informed me its as tight as a rats backside

No issues there. He swapped wheels and tires from another heep and still there but not as bad. He then tried to balance the tires and apparently they wouldn't balance out. 3 out of 4 seemed


I went and bought 4 BFG AT's like i had before the POS tires I was rollin on. So far, it fixed my issue. I did in fact tweat the contol arms and bushings so they are all good now.

[AgitatedPancake]

I've always kinda put tires curing death wobble in the same category as steering stabilizers. It might hide it for a while, but I think there is still an underlying cause somewhere. Does your steering feel nice and tight?

[1ABrian]

yeah it does feel pretty tight. I have a feeling it may be something else too. I used to run gas charged shocks also. I went to a Rancho hydro and cant stand it. the front bounces like I dont even have shocks in the front. Wonder if my front springs are so worn, there is a stability issue?

[Brad S]

Track bar

[1ABrian]

Trac bar was recently replaced. Bout 2 months ago with ANOTHER moog. The shake went away with new rubber. If its still there, (underlying) its got to be something out of the ordinary. Im contemplating replacing the springs. To much bounce on the main roads may prematurely wear out other parts??

[moparrr07]

imo, moog has gone to crap, my factory control arm bushing lasted me 150k miles and they are still fine, until i got rid of the stock arms, the last 50k was me beating the snot out of them, do you really think that the moog aftermarket bushing is as good as the stock one? they are very close in price, its worth it to me to use another good stock part so i know i wont have to be replacing them every 6 months, same gos for the trac bar

as far as the death wobble gos, get an alignment done, if you dont have at least 4* of +caster it will wobble, period

[1ABrian]

I think I'll order one of the trac bar bushings from Kevins off road....I did get an alignment. I'll check the spec sheet to see what it was set at. Apparently the newer alignment machines reset specs for a lifted app. If the cam is maxed out, and I cant get to 4 degree pos castor, does this mean I need adjustable arms? I would figure so.

[1ABrian]

Well the ongoing saga continues. I found both my front Ujoints are binding and dried up. Those will be done Monday night. Still need to check my alignment specs to see what the front end was set at

[moparrr07]

yes as you lift it, your axle just noses over forward, adjustable arms will fix this, giving you more caster, you will notice it will drive way better on the road, right now with 3* or less your just getting the shopping cart wheel effect, also its good to note that on the front driveshaft only, as you increase your caster angle, your front u joint angle (not pinion angle) will increase in the wrong direction, so you have to watch out for too much of that

[1ABrian]

So I looked at my alignment spec sheet from the ship and suggested castor was noted on the printout 6.5 to 7.5 degree on the castor. The sheet does not show what it came in with and shows no adjustment was made on it. I'm calling the shop today to ask them what happened. I'm staring to wonder because the DW was so bad, on the highway, it shifted steel belts in my last tires ruining the tires (would not balance out anymore)
I have found info stating if I install a 2006 1 ton Dodge Ram lower control arm in place of my OE, that will net me approx 1" longer, getting me closer to the -4/-5 degree I need to be in spec? True or false

[tjswj]

not sure about the ram, but i believe wj lowers will work for ya.

[1ABrian]

OK I'm having one of our warehouse guys get me hole to hole measurements on the ZJ and WJ LCA to see what I'll net for castor adjustment

[1ABrian]

OK Update ZJ and WJ hole to hole measurement is 15 1/4 on both parts. The WJ LCA's are no longer than my stocks.

[AgitatedPancake]

Dang I've heard of those UCAs being longer also, are there different part numbers between front and rear LCA's (for ZJ's or WJ's? If so, maybe it was the other part number). Either way, you're on the right track looking for a longer LCA to get your caster in check, the only thing is that as you rock the axle back to get caster in check you're going to be decreasing the pinion angle also, which in most cases is going further away from ideal. It's a tradeoff, and you just need to experiment to see how much you can rotate before the driveshaft starts to vibrate on ya.

Is she driving well now, or are you looking to fix the caster as a last ditch effort?

[1ABrian]

She started shaking again this morning but I managed to keep it under control. Its my DD and need to eliminate the DW. last ditch effort to get her fixed. I don't even know what the castor is now. I just dropped over 800.00 on new shoes. I dont want to ruin these. I also travel for business. Its killin me. I'm thinkin 1" extended LCA's will be enough and not cause DS vibes......BUT will it even fix the issue

[tjswj]

no one can say it will or it wont. Ive found in my experience that if every wear item is tight (i.e. ball joints, tie rods, bushings etc..) That the key to cure DW is in the alignment specs. Will fixed longer control arms help? Maybe? But IMO adjustable uppers and lowers are the way to go (if staying on short arms.)

This seems to be a common issue. People want to do all these crazy things with their jeeps and do it on a budget without doing re-search. If your going to lift your jeep, you have to be committed to following it all the way through. Not to mention having EXTRA cash for little things like this that come up.

[AgitatedPancake]

Just curious, have you done testing to loom for play in your balljoints, unit bearings and steering ends? Things like this:
You need a friend for this one. Start the jeep and keep it in park, have your buddy hop behind the wheel and vigorously shake the wheel from 10oclock to 2 oclock. I mean with a bit of force, you want it strong enough to make worn out parts pop or shift. While hes doing that, crawl under the front end and watch all the steering and track bar components for slop or side to side play. Sometimes you can hear a pop but cant visuallylocate it without putting your hand on each component one at a timefeeling for the concentrated pop.

That should show steering or trackbar issues, next jack one side of your front axle so you have a tire a couple inches. Grab it at 9 and 3 and rock side to side, if you have any slop here specifically it's most likely going to be some warn out steering components.

While the tire is still off the ground, grab it at 12 and 6 and rock top to bottom. Once again there should be zero slop. Most times you might not have the strength to make this happen by hand, so wedge a prybar between the wheel and ground (reason to keep tire barely off the ground) and create the same rocking. If there is slop here, it's happening in your balljoints or your unit bearings. Grab your buddy and get him on the prybar making the slop happen while you stick your head underneath to watch the knuckle. You'll be able to see the slop in a balljoint, the actual knuckle will be moving and you can see things shifting in the balljoint. If it's the unit bearing your knuckle will stay solid but the wheel and rotor will have the slop.

That checks just about every wear item in the front end, i bet you have slop in (at least) one of those components

[1ABrian]

I'll try it again. It has been done 3 times already. Myself and buddy, supposedly the alignment shop and the last place which were supposedly specialists. The BJ's are fairly new MOOGS, tie rod end on pass side, 4 new control arms, trac bar.
I"ll try it out again on Saturday before I decide if the lower control arms will be replaced and possibly try a better track bar/bushings.
The front ujoints needs replacing anyhow so I'll be didling with it.