A Real electric super charger

[ZJ TINS]

The electric supercharger from Valeo can be used on conventional and Diesel engines

Electric superchargers have several advantages over turbochargers, including lack of turbo lag due to the electric superchargers switched reluctance motor with low inertia – it spins at up to 70,000 rpm in less than 350 milliseconds. They are also effective at low engine rpm, meaning engine size can be reduced but still deliver the same torque and horsepower. And when coupled to a gas engine in a hybrid system, electric superchargers provide a 20% saving on fuel and emissions.
These advantages are the main reason Valeo recently purchased the Variable Torque Enhancement business of Controlled Power Technologies, a British auto technology company. Valeo says the addition will give the French company a leg-up in terms of carbon-dioxide-reducing technologies.
Valeo’s new electric supercharger works with both Otto and Diesel engines, is designed to handle the standard 12-V vehicle electric system, and can be retrofit on new and existing vehicles. It works in temperatures from -40 to 125 degrees C, draws 350 A when it is used for acceleration, 220A when operating in steady state, and only 1.5 A when the engine idles.
When electric supercharging was tested on a 1.6-liter Otto engine, torque rose by 40% with no carbon dioxide increase. And 0 to 100 kph times went from 10.9 to 13 sec, a 17% improvement. Researchers also put the electric supercharger on a 1.4-liter engine, which gave it the performance of a 1.6 liter engine but with less fuel consumption (6.4 liters per 100 km instead of 7.3-litters per 100 km).

[black_zj]

WTF is this even doing in here, is there a point or a question, or did someone drink a glass of stupid today?!

[ajmorell]

And 0 to 100 kph times went from 10.9 to 13 sec, a 17% improvement

No, that's actually not an improvement.....

[Jeep Whore]

No, that's actually not an improvement.....

maybe they wanna make the car slower.

[paulkeith]

Sounds nice on paper, but that first law is a heartless bitch.

[ZJ TINS]

Some of you need to get a life. So the first set of numbers are a typo... so what? Look at the test results near the bottom.

I posted this since some time ago there were ebay accounts of flimsy electrical turbo chargers and people questioned wether they work.


Well here it says to work you need 330 amps (165 if you run a 24V setup). It also says the loss of the current energy still is more than offset and the results is a net gain and no turbo lag. I see this coming to our cars in the future as a way of getting power at reduced gas consumption. Should be interesting to watch. I think it does mean cars using this technology will go to 24 ,28 or even 48 v systems. @48V it would need ~85 amps... very doable.

[paulkeith]

I question their validity because the amount of CFM you need to actually build boost on a 3/4/5/6 liter engine turning a couple thousand RPM is astronomically high and requires huge amounts of electricity.

This might begin to show feasibility for small displacement engines and very mild boost numbers, but hundreds upon hundreds of amps is still a pretty major draw. The power still comes from somewhere....but maybe if we start working on storage and use timing, there is a way forward.

I guess my basic point is....I'll believe it when I see it.

[ZJ TINS]

pk true but their numbers seem to work out. i looked up the hp for what i thought the cfm needed for 2 liter at 4k rpm (bigger than what they used) and ran a estimate for the compression (8psi) my numbers came in around 300 amps to their 330 so it is feasible in my mind. but at 12 v the alternator would be enormous in size so they would have to run a higher voltage output to drop the amps. still it seems another leap ahead it will just take some time.

a side note since it is electrically driven that means they can play with a micro p to control it and possibly gain even more advantage or operate in a optimal state under all conditions.

just think it was not too long ago we were seeing electric power steering and now its here in some car models.

by the way this article was from Machine Design an engineers trade magazine.

[ATL ZJ]

ZJ TINS why are all your posts like bad email forwards?

Since I am remotely interested I will let the rest of my reply be on topic.

I'll keep my "large engine size" for now. Superchargers by nature are parasitic and like paul said the power isn't free. Where I could see this being cool is on a trail rig/short distance car with a high efficiency battery setup. I don't know if that's even cost effective vs. building an engine that makes enough power to not need one of these added, much less whether it's possible with current battery technology

But if it is... then you wouldn't be burning the majority of power you're making. Plug in and recharge and you reap the full gains.

[SirFuego]

No, that's actually not an improvement.....

The funny part about it is that the math doesn't even work out (regardless of whether the values were flipped or not).

13-10.9 = 2.1.

2.1/10.9 = 19.3% increase
2.1/13 = 16.2% decrease

Besides, we all know that HICE's (Hydrogen Internal Combustion Engines) are the future anyways. Inject Hydrogen instead of gas into an ICE and you've got a fancy little environmentally friendly engine.

[ZJ TINS]

Japan already has small two stroke diesels using variable turbo chargers (non electric) they are common. They use them to get max power at minimum specific fuel consumption. I guess our diesel laws prevent them from coming over here for delivery trucks/vans (in-town).

Mechanical turbochargers are already used to get more power at less fuel so that is already proven.

IMHO Hydrogen is not a mass market option (nor any gaseous state fuel) until the on board safe storage issue is resolved. Other counties use propane for busses but they have huge metal tanks or in some places bags on tops of busses, and I am not sure they pass crash safety regs over here. In the USA we already use propane for forklifts for indoor clean burning energy.

[haymaker]

Everything I've seen on these "real" electric turbos and superchargers require you to have like 8 batteries in your car and they only run for short bursts at a time, like enough to get you down the 1/4 and thats it. No thanks. If I'm going to have that many batteries in my car I'm at least gonna be able to hit the 3 wheel motion!

[paulkeith]

you in da office, baby.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=InPoPRfqNWM#t=0m35s

[Adventure bob]

The only problem with hydrogen is that there is no delivery infrastrucure for it and it has a significantly lower energy per volume than gas or diesel making it a pretty shitty energy transfer mechanism. Gas=34 MJ/L, Diesel=38 Hydrogen? 5.6 MJ/L. Now uranium 235 is where its at...1.5BILLION mj/liter. Not real great in an accident, but damn good energy transfer mechanism. Again no real infrastructure for it unless your a top secret federal govt program.
Interstingly enough it takes over 350 Hp to drive asupercharge on a top fuel dragster.
So at 14 volts 260 amps gets you roughly 3640 watts multiply that by .00134102209 gets you to about 5 hp of available work capacity. According to Kenne Bells website, it takes roughly 13Hp to generate 1PSI over ambient pressure in a system with about 80% efficiency. Given the math of a 14 volt (volts X amps X .001341) electrical system, it would take nearly 970 amps to get to 13 Hp. Our electrical systems in a Jeep are never gonna do that. Again that’s for 1 PSI of boost.

[ZJ TINS]

Kenne Bell only uses twin screw type turbos. They have different P vs Flow characteristics then the centripetal type above.

As a great example go look at the old Dyson vacuum vs the new. Their new blower is much smaller spinning much higher RPM ~same current.

[Stealth Crawler ZJ]

It's been some time ago but I had a 92 Honda civic 1.3 sohc that I put an electric blower on (not going to call it a supercharger) that put out around 3lbs or so and I don't remember all the numbers on the torque/ power specs but I got 50 mpg on the open highway while having increased the overall power!


Build it. Lock it. Crawl it.

[black_zj]

Kenne Bell only uses twin screw type turbos. They have different P vs Flow characteristics then the centripetal type above.

As a great example go look at the old Dyson vacuum vs the new. Their new blower is much smaller spinning much higher RPM ~same current.

I'm curious where you found a Kenne Bell turbo, link please?

[ZJ TINS]

I'm curious where you found a Kenne Bell turbo, link please?

Whoops actually he only sells twin rotary screw (Lysholm) superchargers.

[Anomic]

I'm curious where you found a Kenne Bell turbo, link please?

There is a Kenny Bell for sale at Novajeepers. believe title is ton of WJ parts.

[black_zj]

There is a Kenny Bell for sale at Novajeepers. believe title is ton of WJ parts.

Apparently you aren't familiar with the topic.