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I've been reading about some issues in the stock calipers falling off (and has happened to at least one guy I know):
http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=904489
Are you still running the stock brakes or have you converted them over to the 3/4 ton chevy stuff? If you are still running them, have you run into issues with the caliper falling off?
Has anyone converted over to the 3/4 GM brakes everyone uses for rear disk conversions? I know companies like BlackBird make brackets for them. Just wasn't sure if there would be any odd braking characteristics running the same brakes front and rear. Also -- did you do anything with the stock master cylinder?
Pearce -- I know you said that you are running Chevy brakes and were going to try out some stuff when you did the engine swap -- did you get the master cylinder dialed in for better braking?
Weight really isn't a concern, but I also don't want my calipers falling off if it actually is a common problem on properly installed brakes...
FWIW, I'm just trying to do an assessment of what to keep or replace on my outers and how much I should change over to GM stuff. I know there are other reasons to convert outers over to Chevy stuff, but let's just keep this thread focused on brakes since that's probably the last thing I need to iron out in the pros/cons.
Last edited by SirFuego; 09-22-2011 at 01:39 PM.
I have a 79 HP 60 front with the Dual piston brakes. When installing the "H" block bolt on the caliper add some red lock tight, problem solved. If it became a problem for me I would look into a way of C-clipping the bolt it in place.
I think he's refering to the problem a few have had with what appears to be the caliper bracket spreading or wearing just enough to not hold the caliper well enough. I don't know how common it is, but it could very well be a problem on higher-mileage/ harder-used donor axles or rigs with huge tires and/or load on the brakes.
It seems like if it were a problem, you could build up the mating surface on the caliper mount. At least that's what I plan on doing if it's ever a problem on my Ford 44 that uses the same retention method (1/2 ton parts, same retainer design as the 3/4-1 ton brakes). Or use the shims mentioned in post #13 of that link. If cheap/ easy fixes don't work, then upgrade IMO. There are just too many calipers like this out there and not enough problems to make it appear to be a common issue.
Andy's is holding up so far, it's got probably 5-600 miles on it. One of his calipers can actually slightly move by hand, but it's minimal, not anything I thought was worth specific mention. I also don't think you'd have a problem with running the same 3/4 ton calipers front and rear, just put an adjustable prop valve in so they are getting different pressures and it should act pretty much normal
Here's a quick vid clip I did brake testing Andy's ZJ, locked up all 4 with the Ford 2 pistons and 14 bolt drum brakes
Last edited by AgitatedPancake; 09-22-2011 at 11:15 PM.
Mine seem to have improved. The only thing I can attribute that to is that I pulled the master cylinder to check the plunger adjustment. I messed with it slightly and actually thought I didn't make any difference but then after the first wheeling trip they held a lot better than before. Only other difference is sticky tires of course. I have an older Corvette master with a slightly bigger bore than stock Jeep but still considering going to something with a bore another size up. I'd like a little less pedal travel. I believe I have the 1 1/8" bore now.
I've had several issues with my dual piston calipers falling off. I modified the h beam retainers by welding a piece to them to complete the half moon bolt holes and drilled and tapped 2 more holes in the bracket.. This has kept them from falling off but the little spring clips are gone and they bang around really bad.
I had made some shims to try out from uhmw and they worked like a champ but they fell out too. I'll make another set soon i think and come up with a way to retain the shim a little better.
I'm running chevy brakes on mine. Just change the brakes and the brackets. Don't change your outers.
Last edited by SirFuego; 09-23-2011 at 10:56 AM.
I've got the same calipers front and rear (Chevy 3/4 ton) and the stock master cylinder and I haven't had any braking issues. Up front I'm running complete Chevy outer knuckles though.....I don't remember how I did my calipers.......I need to go back and look through my build thread now ha.
edit: yeah, my build thread doesn't tell me shit. Hmmmmmm. I know I used Six-States 6-lug Chevy hubs, I probably just purchased the caliper brackets off of eBay or something. Either way, I have the 3/4 ton stuff front and actually I think I used Monte Carlo front calipers for the rear. Braking has been great though and I haven't had any calipers fall off yet haha.
Last edited by CrawlerReady; 09-23-2011 at 11:29 AM.
Jared,
If the person you know that had a caliper fall off is Ryan, he runs 1 ton Chevy stuff.
The 1ton Chevy stuff runs the "H" wedge and arc'd spring with a retainer bolt. Apparently, if you buy a good hardware kit, they give you multiple thickness springs to make up any caliper slop. From the sounds of that link you posted, Ford has a similiar setup in some cases?
Jerry (ponyboy) had problems with the other Ford style, which is the two pieces of metal with rubber in between that you pound in.
Josh runs 3/4 ton Chevy calipers all the way around on his Scrambler. Has for years. I thought his brackets were Ruffstuff, but you'd have to ask him.
Mike, I was talking about Jerry. His is a 78-79 axle like mine, so his brake setup should be the same as what I currently have. I have RuffStuff brackets already for my rear axle -- just trying to decide what to do for the front. I unfortunately haven't seen any front disc brake brackets from RuffStuff, but maybe I'll call them up anyways to at least express my interest in such a product.
I think right now I'm leaning towards keeping the Ford spindles/hubs and swap to the 3/4 ton GM setup with aftermarket knuckles/arms. 3/4 GM stuff is dirt cheap and they seem pretty idiot-proof (good for me).
Here is what I found in terms of 3/4 Conversion Brackets for Ford Dana 60 Front axles (posting moreso for my reference):
Screamin Seeman $100
http://www.screaminseeman.com/calipers.shtml
Virginia 4x4
http://www.shop.virginia4x4.com/Bolt-on-Rear-Disc-Brake-Conversion-Kit-Ford-Dana-60-Front-VA4X4-BR-BOF-D60F.htm
Blackbird Customs $140
http://www.blackbirdscustomtrucks.com/index25.html#d60f
Sumner Machine $200
http://sumner-machine.com/sumner_products.html
Sam's Offroad $195
http://www.sams4x4store.com/index.html
It's sort of interesting that there is such a huge discrepancy in price for the front brackets -- not to mention how much more expensive they are for the front as opposed to the rear. I guess it's a supply/demand thing?
Last edited by SirFuego; 11-05-2011 at 12:05 AM.
I've had this problem with the calipers on my Ford 60. Ford used two styles of caliper retention- one is a bolt on clip which seems to work better and the other is a pair of strange steel & rubber pins that slide in to hold the caliper. My axle came with the second style and over a short time the rubber fatigues letting the caliper pop out and fall into the wheel.
After that happened 4 or 5 times I got annoyed enough to throw all the rubber pins away and I just installed the caliper with the groove in the bottom of the caliper resting directly on the opposing groove of the caliper bracket. At the top I tapped in a 5/8" bolt and lightly zip tied it to the base of the brake line. I've been running that way for a couple years now with no problems. It's a little hack but it works.
Isn't the rubber setup from later axles? I thought all late 70s Ford axles had the H block with a bolt and leaf spring retainer design like the 1 ton Chevy setup. I would not trust the Ford rubber design, but it sounds like ATL's fix works fine for a wheeling rig.
Yeah mine is an 80s axle.
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