Bad Idea Build

[Payableondeath6]

Already posted in the newb thread and asked a question, and nobody told me to eat $hit

Here's my brief intro. I'm 26, married, father of a 7mo girl, and active duty Navy. I mention these things as the backstory to why some of the decisions are being made the way they are. Some of my choices in this build will be contrary to what the acceptable common way of doing things are, but when parts break on my DD it's easier to justify replacing. To clarify, my intention is not to break things in order to upgrade, but my desire is to experiment in building things an inexpensive way (that many may advise against) and if the case comes where an item is in fact not up to par or breaks, then I will upgrade with the appropriate heavy duty part.

I will be seeing possibly several changes in income level within the next 2 years. First, by the end of this month I should hear if I get advanced to E-5 from E-4 (more money for Jeep parts), also I will be getting commissioned in 2 years (O-1E pay is almost double what I make now), and finally I will be getting a large pre-commissioning loan (at a low %) in the next 6 months to consolidate some debt and buy a couple toys.

So, I got the ZJ about 2 months ago from the sale of my turbo Volvo. This is how it looked





Shortly after I added a 2.5" high flow cat and Magnaflow muffler, with a silly chrome tip the exhaust guy put on for free. Sounds much better now. Also, battery died and replaced with an AutoZone gold battery.



Parts currently sitting in the truck waiting to be installed (May 3-8):
-complete Accel tune-up kit
-ProComp steering stabilizer
-ProComp ES9000 shocks
-IRO Coil Isolators
-3" Fat Bob's front coils
-SkyJacker front TB relocation bracket
-Fat Bob's rear TB relocation bracket
-moving rear LCA to the front LCA, replacing rear LCA with JK rear UCA





I will also be trimming the front and rear fenders/bumpers and adding a hood vent similar to this (different shape and location on hood).



Plans following that (ASAP), either this will be around my birthday this June (if I'm VERY lucky) or it will happen when I get the pre-commissioning loan in Dec/Jan:
-35" BFG KM2's (or for about $400 cheaper I can get my hands on a set of recentered Humvee beadlocks with 37's on Pirate4x4, depends if I have the clearance and want to give up flex)
-4.88 gears front and back
-Steering Brace (contacting FortCollinsZJ if he still makes them, if not KOR)
-either complete HD steering or just a HD Tie Rod to start (still researching different setups/prices)
-perhaps a set of chromoly axles for the d30 because I'm sure it's going to hate me for the 35's or 37's

Well I'm sure that's a plenty long enough post and I've included enough pictures to keep the illiterate happy. I'm still getting stuff in the mail, actual building won't take place until my wife and daughter fly out to visit family on the 3rd.

PS: I'm well aware that most advise against several things I've mentioned, I will still be giving the things I mentioned a shot. That is not to say that I don't want/desire input and advise. Though I've done plenty of research I'm still always open to learning and debate. I know no one likes the following:
-TB brackets
-anything over 4.5" of lift on short arms (even if they are appropriately sized for the lift)
-anything larger than 33" tires on the Dana 30 Low Pinion axle

[ELLLLLIOTTTTT]

[dp96zj]

... father of a 7mo girl ... but when parts break on my DD ... building things an inexpensive way (that many may advise against) ... if the case comes where an item is in fact not up to par or breaks ... SkyJacker front TB relocation bracket ... Fat Bob's rear TB relocation bracket

^that's how I read it.

There is an "acceptable" way of doing things, for a reason. Trackbar brackets break, and more often than not, they are breaking ON PAVEMENT and during DD'ing, not during wheeling. Do what you want with the Jeep, but if it was my 7 month old daughter, you can bet your bottom dollar that I would not be skimping on suspension components.

Eat shit, use your brain, welcome to MC

[Jeeptech01]

We all understand about being on a budget. It causes things to move more slowly than we would like but as said above skimping on suspension is stupid. Wait longer and do it right. Worst case scenario of skimping on suspension is bodily injury or even death best case scenario is you spend money on crap that you wind up replacing when you decide to do it right. its not that no one here likes the things you listed its that they just dont work PERIOD. So coming on here and saying I appreciate input and in the same breath saying im not going to listen to it is kind of fawking stupid.

Oh and eat shit.

BTW how rotten is that thing? It looks like the pass rocker is missing some substance.

[Payableondeath6]

TL;DR

I may be too old or disconnected from the interwebs to understand this, sorry?

^that's how I read it.

There is an "acceptable" way of doing things, for a reason. Trackbar brackets break, and more often than not, they are breaking ON PAVEMENT and during DD'ing, not during wheeling. Do what you want with the Jeep, but if it was my 7 month old daughter, you can bet your bottom dollar that I would not be skimping on suspension components.

Eat shit, use your brain, welcome to MC

Oh, crap, I can see your point and I was misleading. This is MY DD only to and from college (5 miles each way). My wife and baby rarely if ever ride in it. With that said, I've never seen anyone with a broken TB bracket (not saying it doesn't happen, just I haven't heard of it), but I have seen plenty of people say they do. Do you have firsthand experience seeing this? Not to sound like a smarta$$ but I really am curious, if so I definitely do not want to take any chances with the safety of myself, my family, or others on the roadway.

We all understand about being on a budget. It causes things to move more slowly than we would like but as said above skimping on suspension is stupid. Wait longer and do it right. Worst case scenario of skimping on suspension is bodily injury or even death best case scenario is you spend money on crap that you wind up replacing when you decide to do it right. its not that no one here likes the things you listed its that they just dont work PERIOD. So coming on here and saying I appreciate input and in the same breath saying im not going to listen to it is kind of fawking stupid.

Oh and eat shit.

BTW how rotten is that thing? It looks like the pass rocker is missing some substance.

Like I mentioned above, I've done plenty of searching on several forums and heard all sorts of people saying don't use TB brackets, but I've never heard of anyone using one and them breaking. I've seen plenty of people with >4.5" lifts on short arms, some complain about the ride, some don't, but I can't say that I've seen any of them breaking CA mounts. And I've heard everyone and their brother say no bigger than 33's on the LP30, but I've seen people do 35's on them and 37's on the HP30 with little effect in much harder wheeling than I'll be able to do at the current time. The brackets are $60, so I'm not out much if I do in fact need the IRO TB.

I'm not saying I'm open to input but not going to listen, I'm saying that I would like more than people passing on what they've heard through the forums and just continued to pass on. I'm not calling anyone a liar, I did the same thing, I had an F150 that I built, I heard person after person say they could only be lifted X amount before huge problems, so I lifted below X amount, then I saw the price on above X amount of lift go down, people bought it and had NO problems, the same people I was telling it wouldn't work too, I was just passing on what "common knowledge" was. So yes, I would love to hear people's firsthand opinion before I put parts on, that will save me plenty of $$ and time.

It's got a decent amount of rust from the looks (I'm from Ohio so everything I see down here looks pristine to me), just the typical underbody stuff I'm used to, that rocker is the only "bad" spot. I'd like to cut out those nasty rockers and put some boat sides on it, that is if I can muster up someone with a welder...or some b-day money and a trip to HF.

Hope I didn't ruffle any feathers.

[BigDaveZJ]

I don't have any "first-hand" experience with a trackbar bracket breaking on my vehicles because I don't run them. I have personally seen several broken ones though, mostly on pavement.

A lot of people "try" to do things contrary to the accepted methods, but there's reasons the accepted methods are what they are. A lot of us have "been there, done that" and gone down the other roads, only to realize it's a waste of time and money and that we should've just done it right the first time around. People will jump on you for doing things a different way sometimes to save you time and money, other times we may be pointing out that what you're doing is downright unsafe. Trackbar relocation brackets like those fall into both categories IMO.

[blackjack12982]

Wow, that's really red. That's almost painful to look at. We talked about your setup via PM, but ditch those trackbar brackets, and get a set of adjustable trackbars. We have pretty much the same situation, it's taken me this long to get to where I'm at because I refused to cut corners like that.

Good luck on your build and hopeful promotion. I got that same promotion about 6 months ago, and my ZJ has definitely taken almost every penny of my pay raise.

[Jeep Whore]

I got idea for for bad idea build up, flip the d30 so you can get a hp d30.

[Payableondeath6]

I don't have any "first-hand" experience with a trackbar bracket breaking on my vehicles because I don't run them. I have personally seen several broken ones though, mostly on pavement.

People will jump on you for doing things a different way sometimes to save you time and money, other times we may be pointing out that what you're doing is downright unsafe. Trackbar relocation brackets like those fall into both categories IMO.

Hey, that's what I'm talking about though, I've never even heard anyone say they've seen a broken bracket. So, do I need front and rear TBs or can I use the rear bracket? Also, recommendations for TBs (do I need double shear, is IRO the best choice)?

Wow, that's really red. That's almost painful to look at.

Good luck on your build and hopeful promotion. I got that same promotion about 6 months ago, and my ZJ has definitely taken almost every penny of my pay raise.

I'm really not a big fan of the red either, it's bad. I think I'm going to repaint the brushguard black until it hopefully gets replaced someday (it's pretty beat up). Congrats on making E-5, this is my 3rd or 4th time up, so I should get it.

I got idea for for bad idea build up, flip the d30 so you can get a hp d30.

I already found a HP44 front and 9" rear combo for $400 (with radius arms, steering, and 30" tires/wheels) on CL, it is tempting

[Jeep Whore]

I already found a HP44 front and 9" rear combo for $400 (with radius arms, steering, and 30" tires/wheels) it is tempting

O.O, damn I might have to search my ass off and find that.

[Jeeptech01]

Yes trackbar relocate brackets rip off. The problem is it relocates the mount in a way that puts more leverage on the factory mount either axle or frame side depending on bracket design. Fact is the factory bracket is barely adequate as is so adding more levereage to it is an endgame. Google search ripped off trac bar bracket. Im sure you'll find all the evidence you need.

It is good to hear that it doesnt see much road time so you arent risking you or your familys life much but what about other people on the road that you could slam into if that shit decides to break. Fact is, it will always break at the worst possible time.

[Payableondeath6]

Hey, that's what I'm talking about though, I've never even heard anyone say they've seen a broken bracket. So, do I need front and rear TBs or can I use the rear bracket? Also, recommendations for TBs (do I need double shear, is IRO the best)?

It is good to hear that it doesnt see much road time so you arent risking you or your familys life much but what about other people on the road that you could slam into if that shit decides to break. Fact is, it will always break at the worst possible time.

See above sir.
So, couple questions. Several companies make adjustable TBs, who has the best/most cost effective? Also, whats the deciding factor in determining if I need one with double shear or not?

[jsteves]

Who the fuck is Fat Bob?

[JohnBoulderCO]

Who the fuck is Fat Bob?

He was on the Biggest Loser a few seasons ago, he didn't win, so he started making Jeep parts.

No TB brackets, they get loose and or break, I did try one during my early lift stages, it sucked.
Lose the brush guard, sell it and get a real bumper.

[BigDaveZJ]

Hey, that's what I'm talking about though, I've never even heard anyone say they've seen a broken bracket. So, do I need front and rear TBs or can I use the rear bracket? Also, recommendations for TBs (do I need double shear, is IRO the best choice)?

IRO, JKS, KOR, any of them will work. I personally like the double shear up front given the extra forces applied from steering. In the rear I used to just run a regular adjustable bar with the stock bracketry (running Clayton's now).

[Jeeptech01]

See above sir.
So, couple questions. Several companies make adjustable TBs, who has the best/most cost effective? Also, whats the deciding factor in determining if I need one with double shear or not?

I saw it. I was just driving the point home in case you are a little dense.

Big dave listed most of the reputable companies that make a quality trac bar. Also rubicon express makes some nice ones. If you'd still like to save some coin you could always pick one up used in the calssifieds here or JU and JF. HTH

[96grandbeater]

i think everybody is forgeting the oldest tb cheap way out there is... just redrill your axleside mounting hole and youre all set, good enough for your 3" lift anyway. def safer than a relocation bracket and you get to put the money you save from that into a adj rear tb(pretty sure you cant redrill back there)

[Payableondeath6]

i think everybody is forgeting the oldest tb cheap way out there is... just redrill your axleside mounting hole and youre all set, good enough for your 3" lift anyway. def safer than a relocation bracket and you get to put the money you save from that into a adj rear tb(pretty sure you cant redrill back there)

Thanks but that won't work for 5-5.5".

I'm just going to order an adjustable TB, just shopping around now. Coils came in yesterday and shocks shipped out today.

I'm thinking of upgrading the steering preemptively while I'm getting greasy. What are everyones thoughts on a heim jointed crossover setup with DOM?

[96grandbeater]

ahh well i read 3" in fat bob coil and assumed it was gonna be 3" lift.... anyway IMO the IRO double shear front TB is your best bang for your buck strong but not quite as pricey as some of the others IIRC

[Payableondeath6]

No opinions on heim crossover steering setups? I've seen them done on XJs with good results. I think I'm going to be ordering some parts to put one together.

Can't wait to start wrenching on Wednesday!

[Ken L]

Sorry I am a little late getting to the party. I have ripped off a rear trackbar relocation bracket. I was a little smart and never put one on in the front; the Rubicon Express lift that I bought came with a new adjustable track bar for the lift. The rear bracket brings the suck big time. I welded the stock bracket back on, switched to a JKS adjustable rear track bar, that worked fine until I ripped the rear uppers out of the unibody. After that I built my long arms.

I am not sure if it was street driving or 'wheeling that helped me rip the TB bracket off, but regardless of what caused it, it failed.

Wanted to throw that in for what it's worth.

[Jeeptech01]

For the steering most guys who DD their rigs or play in mud stick to tre's over heims so it depends on what you do with your rig.

[biggoofy]

I dd my pos and have heims. I like them and havent had an issue yet. I will actually be selling my steering setup here in a few months as I will be fabbing up the new stuff for the hp44 myself.

[Jeeptech01]

You're gonna get rid of that tangled mess of bars? LOL I have a stock knuckle to replace the one you drilled out if you need it.

[biggoofy]

Mine aren't drilled and I have more spare 30 shit than I'll ever need haha