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12-12-2010, 11:09 PM
I've wheeled my Claytons for about 5 years now, and I'm really wanting to change the front suspension on my WJ to a 4-link or at least a real 3-link. I'm pretty sick of seeing the front end rocking back and forth because of me wearing the bushings out on the axle every 6 months. I'm running full hydraulic steering with a D60 front. I would like to 4-link it, but we all know that there is not at lot room to pull this off. I want the front as low as I can get it on 40" tires. I know i can raise the front to get this done, but to me it's not an option. I am not opposed to running a true 3 link, but I want to run johnny joints on both ends of the upper. Like I said, I'm sick and tired of replacing bushings. So, on to my questions. Does anyone have pictures, and or stories of their 4-link or 3-link front? What will work, and what won't? I know there was a TOTM on this a while back, and yes the Clayton's system works, but I'm looking for a little better performance.
12-12-2010, 11:38 PM
What engine?
12-12-2010, 11:47 PM
I'd be happy to tell my story, but honestly I'm not sure how much it will help. I'm a little bit baffled about my own results.
Originally (when I swapped in my current axles), I built my front and rear 4link suspensions. I was very careful to use the link calculator on both, and they worked out great. No binding, no wheel hop. When I swapped the 6.0 in, I wanted more travel, and along with it, I decided to add more vertical separation at the axle, and had to rebuild my frame side mounts because I cut out the unirails and replaced them with box tube. Most of the changes I made were minor, so in my laziness, I neglected to toss everything back into the calc.
Now I'm getting some pretty bad front end wheel hop. I know it's because I don't have adequate frame side vertical separation. Which sucks, because it's going to be a fairly major undertaking to rework my frame side upper link mounts, even though they're my best choice to relocate, because lowering the lowers will reduce my clearance, and reducing vertical separation at the axle is just a bad idea.
Here are my numbers now, plugged into the calculator from my current measurements. This is the source of my confusion. 73% AS shouldn't hop, unless the characteristics change drastically on droop travel. Most of the time when it hops, is when I'm hard on the throttle, and on a steep hill or obstacle. I need to plug them back into the calc fresh, and see what happens on droop. For some reason the calc is a little dinky and the travel function "breaks" when you adjust values in it...
So other than a sob story that might be marginally helpful, I don't have much to offer besides saying to run adequate axle and frame side vertical separation, and make sure to run the calc on whatever you build...
Last edited by ATL ZJ; 12-12-2010 at 11:49 PM.
12-12-2010, 11:55 PM
4.0 as of now, but hopfully it will getting a 6.0 sometime in the future. I will be wheeling it this year with the 4.0 again. I just don't want to miss half the season next year putting it in, so it will be 4.0 for a little bit longer.Originally Posted by chadjans
Cam,
Do you have any pics of the frame side and axle side mounts?
Last edited by indy242003; 12-12-2010 at 11:59 PM.
12-12-2010, 11:55 PM
starting at about 2:05 you can see the hop start to happen... there I backed out of it a lot. if I don't, it can get pretty violent...
12-13-2010, 12:39 AM
Cam -- that "hop" at 2:05 looks an awful lot like the hop I got on my D30 when I was running stock shafts. I don't ever recall getting that hop once I switched to RCVs...
I know you said that your first custom setup didn't exhibit those characteristics, so maybe it doesn't have to do with the variable speed in a U-joint, but just throwing it out there since it looked like the "hop" didn't start until you started turning the wheel. I know you mentioned this to me previously when I asked if you ran your current double-tri 4 link in the calculator, but I guess I'm just sorta re-iterating it because the video seems to support the whole CV vs. U-joint issue.
Last edited by SirFuego; 12-13-2010 at 12:45 AM.
Originally Posted by SB406
12-13-2010, 12:55 AM
HA, are you getting commission checks from RCV yet?
It's definitely exacerbated by the ujoints but the root of the problem is suspension. Fortunately I've been doing this long enough to know the difference.
I do plan to make some decisions and changes in the next month or two, so I'll post my results here then...
12-13-2010, 02:01 AM
man cam you need stickies!
12-13-2010, 09:29 AM
I wish stickies would work as well here as they do out west. Here our trails are like running a muddy bobsled course backwards. Throw a couple boulders in there along the way up, and there you have southeastern wheelin'. We need a pit crew to change tires half way up the hills. Swampers to get up the hill and red labels climb the obstacles.
Last edited by indy242003; 12-13-2010 at 09:44 AM.
12-13-2010, 10:21 AM
Thanks Cam. Please keep me posted when you get it figured out. I'm thinking I may have more room running the 4.0 right now than I would running my Chevy small block. I may have to change it later, but I will worry about that later. I will run the calculator for sure, but I really need some visuals as to how the frame side needs to be on a Grand. Post up some pics guys!
12-13-2010, 10:32 AM
I got some, that vid is old
12-13-2010, 02:32 PM
Ya I suppose our wheeling is much different. But I do have a story.
Recently we just cut as new trail that is in a heavily moist forest. It’s all rock ledges but at the bottom it’s all muddy slop. About 1’-2’ of mud. The rock ledges them selfs are covered in gooy shit and dirt.
The stickies still get some on the gooy rock.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0jvNI186mCs
12-13-2010, 03:14 PM
Ha, I was thinking that I'd get a comment like that. I'd be happy with a one-time-only commission paid to me by a set of D60 shafts
Not gonna lie though -- I really wish there was another player in the CV shaft market that would be able to help drive the costs of heavy duty CV's down significantly.
Originally Posted by SB406
12-13-2010, 04:05 PM
Oh I agree completely. There is a huge amount of opportunity in the 300m market right now...Ha, I was thinking that I'd get a comment like that. I'd be happy with a one-time-only commission paid to me by a set of D60 shafts
Not gonna lie though -- I really wish there was another player in the CV shaft market that would be able to help drive the costs of heavy duty CV's down significantly.
12-13-2010, 04:57 PM
Cam,
Do you have any pics of your link set up in the front on your build thread?
Kraqa,
I know stickies are great for what we do. I have seen some of your vids, and I'm no nut swinger, but some of that shit is awesome. I'm not a huge fan of the BFG's. I have seen a lot of them with ripped sidewalls. Most of the time it's been on big heavy rigs. Iroks are out! I hate them on my rig. Wheeled them for a year and they are worn out. Those were not even stickies. The only thing I did like about them was that they are a narrower option. Are the Maxxis stickies worth the coin? Are they even readily available? What other options are out there? Shit, I'm way off topic now!
12-13-2010, 05:07 PM
Maxxis are some of the BEST stickie ties out there. But they wear fast. And usually need to be broken in. most guys throw a new set on their rig. Then do burnouts for a couple minutes to round everything off. The problem is that by the time they are broken in they are at around 50%. BFG’s are great and somewhat easy to find. Maxxis are VERY strict on their “we only sell to competitors, do not resell them when you are done”
I run Toyo Stickies. Impossible to get. Only 16 made each year. Unfortunately Curtis Warner has been killing them running them at 10 PSI in the desert. So his are almost not resellable. And the US guys keep em just like I do cause they work so freekin well. If you can find a set of Toyo stickies GRAB em. But usually they go for huge coin.
12-13-2010, 05:10 PM
Just kidding dude. And I agree with you on the durability of the reds. Running too much pressure in them helps, but they are still easy to destroy. As soon as I unload my LTBs I'll be on the hunt for some more BFGs to have enough in the rotation to keep me wheelin. I've tried to adjust my driving style, but around here you can only do so much crawling if you want to get anywhere...
Here are some pics... I don't have any of my current setup unfortunately, but here is what my old setup looked like. They were ruffstuff brackets...
original
1st revision. ugly but effective
2nd revision was minor, and came when I rebuilt my "rockers". 3rd revision coming very soon...
Last edited by ATL ZJ; 12-13-2010 at 05:13 PM.
12-13-2010, 05:51 PM
The Maxxis stickies aren't cheap. I called them and wanted a spare for my buggy. Roughly 938 a tire.... Oh and the radials aren't much cheaper. I lucked out and found 6 40" radials for 600.....
12-13-2010, 06:15 PM
Funny I have heard the complete opposite from the guy I bought my reds from... He said that BFG requires a lot more proof to enroll people in their racer program and Maxxis just takes your word for it and doesn't ask any questions. Now that info could be second or third hand, so other than them being local here in Atlanta, who knows how valid it is. All I know is even well-used sets of Maxxis sell for ridiculous amounts of money... That and I need to go make friends with someone at Maxxis...
12-13-2010, 06:23 PM
I got on the BFG Race Program as well as Maxxis. They both required the same sort of stuff from me.....a few pics of comp. rig, last official comp. results, and comp. plans for the upcoming season.
The reason I picked BFG over Maxxis was the $$$ discount. Granted Maxxis tires are very sweet and proven, I'm sure I'll be plenty happy with the BFG Red's at almost 1/2 the cost while being on the program.
12-13-2010, 06:29 PM
Maxxis will take your word on it if you are at an event and can get someone to back you up. Someone that they know. If you call them up and ask they will required proof. BFG is much the same. Except BFG requires that you prove your history and accomplishments as a racer. I do not believe BFG caps you on your tire amount. Guys buy sell them all the time. Maxxis is pretty sticky on the whole reselling thing. That’s kinda what I meant by they are hard to get. I’m in the process of trying to get Toyo to make a 40” sticky in a 17” rim. That would be siiiick.
12-13-2010, 06:35 PM
I heard you can get the halftread all terrains (KRTs) for 1350 as a racer. That true?
Maybe I need to run a local race for the tire savings and then quit
12-13-2010, 07:27 PM
I haven't looked into anything other than the Krawler Red Labels. I'll check on that when I get ready to order. The KRT-B's do sound like a BAD ASS tire. I'm glad that this thread got so derailed hahaha.
/hyjack
12-13-2010, 10:21 PM
They make meds for A.D.D., but I'm sure they don't make anything for what's wrong with most of you.
Ok, back to 4-links. What seperation at the frame side would,,,,,, SQUIRREL!
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