Planning my V-8 swap

[Jeeptech01]

Im starting this thread basically as an idea generator and an area to bounce around ideas. Theres tons of knowledge here so I may as well take advantage of it. So heres where Im at now. Im not sinking a shit ton of money into this XJ I bought for $1300 plus the less I spend, the more impressed I'll be with the results. I was gonna do a stroker or 5.3 but either will run me roughly $2500-3000. Aint gonna happen. Also after thinking about all the engine swaps I've done I realized I havent ever done a stock appearing type swap using the factory gauges shifter etc. So basically my constraints are $500-1500 budget and stock appearing except maybe some go fast goodies like a cai and headers.

So here are the options I have laid out and some unknown variables since apparently they arent terribly popular swaps for some reason. Or maybe people are just too scared to buck the norm and give it a try. Oddly these are forseeably cheaper and simpler than their alternatives.

Swap candidate 01 XJ limited with ccd bus system
4.0l 190 hp 225 ft lb mileage (in an xj) 15/20

5.2/5.9 magnum engine
uses hyd roller cam and is a torque monkey
5.2 220 hp 300 lbft (mileage in zj) 13/17

5.9 245 hp 335 lbft (mileage in zj) 11/16

avail transmissions 44re or 46re
uses ccd bus in almost every application so all gauges/features will function with minimal harness work

Donor vehicles are easily acquired for less than 1k

My 231 will bolt up with minimal mods

??? Motor mounts would need to be fabbed??? I cannot find anyone who makes mounts for the swap in an XJ for some reason??? Or would the stockers be close or same???

Only found one link. But there are plenty for the tj magnum swap for some reason.
http://www.cardomain.com/ride/252395...ford-wi-us?p=2

Size: The magnum is roughly the same height and 1" narrower that the ever popular sbc that is swapped in all the time so fitment isnt an issue.

Second option: While this one may be a touch more difficult I would REALLY love to do it.

4.7ltr power tech w/545rfe

The silky smooth 4.7 and 5 speed auto made me love the WJ and in something roughly 1k lb lighter.. dayum.

235 hp 295 ftlb mileage (in a WJ) 15/20

ed: I did some research and 2000my Durango and Dakota had the 4.7 availible and still used ccd bus. This is the only model I could find that had a 4.7 and ccd so I would need a pcm from one.

Size is the constraint Im worried about with the 4.7. It is very wide and Im concerned about the exhaust manifolds hitting the "frame" rails.

Tcase adapt 231 or use thwe 247 or 242hd that comes from the donor. Would need to figure out the speedo somehow though. Maybe some wj242/xj242 parts swapping??

As for availiblity, wrecked WJ's seem to go fairly cheap on copart so it is doable. I'll have to stick with 01 and down though since the ngc motors have different tone wheels on the cam and crank.

More info to come lunch hour is over. Any links info comments etc is welcomed.

[WJvol]

Go with the 4.7! that would awesome. Of the chrysler motors the 4.7 is my favorite, smooth running and powerful as hell. Oh and the sound...plus the 5.2 and 5.9 seem to tire out quicker from my experiences and from what I can tell you are a pretty responsible guy so keeping up with the fluid changes and what not in the 4.7 would keep your gunking to a minimum. Anywho, my 2 cents... either way sounds like a good project and keeping mopar together is pretty cool.

[Jeeptech01]

Added the rest of my info to the first post. Thats pretty much what I've got.

Yea the 4.7 would be very cool. If I can fit it in the engine bay and get an affordable donor that is the way I want to go. Hell I could even use the 247 case and have an awd on/offroad terror machine.

[AgitatedPancake]

I say do the 4.7! You've seen enough frame rail work to squeeze engines in, I bet you could make it work. I'd do an HO if you could though! Or atleast HO camshafts in a reg 4.7.

Definately look at dakotas/durangos for a donor. I can't remember which of them it was, but the commonly came with the 4.7 and 242HD. You could get the engine tranny and tcase at the same time.

[Jeeptech01]

I thought all the rangos and dak's were e shifted???

[AgitatedPancake]

Hmmm now I'm not sure! I'll have to go look around

[IndyZJ]

My only experience with the 4.7 is from test driving WJs, but I can say they feel a hell of a lot better throughout the RPM range than any Magnum engine I have driven. The "reliability" of stock Chrysler ODs from that era alone would be enough for me to shy away from that swap as I would not install a 44re without a rebuild. Yes, they can be built up, but that alone pretty much blows your budget.

My only hesitation for the 4.7 would be the cost of a good donor, but if you can find it cheap, I would go for it. Surely WJ rails aren't much wider than than the XJ's. It would be a unique swap, but at least you'd be certified to work on it (I hope)

[Jeeptech01]

I honestly dont see too many 46re or 44re issues at work but they may be flocking into the aamco's at this point. I also am a certified trans tech so a build wouldnt kill me completely. However Id much rather get the 545rfe honestly.

So three new ??'s

input on the mortality rate of the 44 and 46 od units

ZJ vs WJ framerail widths

width of a 4.7 mani to mani at its widest point

[SirFuego]

My 46RH lasted about 185k before it went. Although in retrospect it probably should have been replaced well before that. The transmission guy didn't believe how much was on it when he was told the mileage.

[zj6.5]

4.7s are pretty high $$$ are they not?

[IndyZJ]

I didn't exactly mean to say that a 44/ 46re wouldn't last, but that one you'd get from a donor would likely "need" rebuilding before installation. The 44re in my '96 started slipping at 121k miles and completely shit itself at 135k miles. The 44re in the '97 ZJ I had was completely rebuilt at 75,XXX miles.

[downtowncb]

The 46re in my new ZJ is just starting to show signs of torque converter lockout failure at 171k. FYI






cough 5.3 cough

[Jeeptech01]

The 44 and 46 seem to be failing at a predictable mileage. I have been inside a few and they seem fairly tough.

What swap I do is going to boil down to what donor I can get in my price range. I really shouldnt have to worry about mechanical issues since Im mainly shopping wrecked insurance write offs. Typically the vehicles are running and driving properly when they are hit. As far as mileage goes either the 4.7 or magnum mills are capable of 250k easily if properly maintained.

Another consideration I have made is aftermarket support for the two motors. It is douubtful I'll need more power but you never know and the magnum has a slew of aftermarket parts availible from heads to stroker kits.

Anybody who wants to send a cash donation for a 5.3 can pm for my paypal account LOL. Seriously though the 5.3 is 290 hp 325 ftlb so it has around 60 hp and 25 ftlb on the swap candidates. That is honestly not worth all the extra cash and work IMO. Plus I've never really messed with a chrysler engine swap and Id like to give it a shot.

[Jeeptech01]

My 46RH lasted about 185k before it went. Although in retrospect it probably should have been replaced well before that. The transmission guy didn't believe how much was on it when he was told the mileage.

I thought the 5.2 engines all had the 44 behind them and only the 5.9 got the 46 unless it was a fullsize truck?

[scott]

I just recently towed in an 02 wj with the 4.7 that is totaled if your interested...

[Jeeptech01]

Im thinking shipping would be pretty brutal. My zip is 34604 pm me an offer if the pcm has 3 plugs and a separate tcm. If it is a 4 plug one I cant use it. Thanks.

[IndyZJ]

I thought the 5.2 engines all had the 44 behind them and only the 5.9 got the 46 unless it was a fullsize truck?

As far as I know, 93-95 5.2s got the 46rh and 96-98 5.2s got the 44re. Somebody correct me if I'm wrong, but I think 5.9s got the 46re.

I do like the 5.2 in the ZJ more than a 4.0, but it just feels like it falls on its face around 3000-3500 rpm. If you're just cruising around, you wouldn't have any problems, but if you like power and have high expectations of a v8 it's a bit disappointing in my experience. For as little power as it makes, it gets shit mileage even stock compared to what you're used to messing with. I'm sure a cam and porting the intake and heads would help some. I don't think you want to be the guy with $8k in a sub-450 hp motor...

FWIW, R/T Dakota guys with about $2k aftermarket headers/ exhaust/ itake/ 1.7:1 rockers/ hypertech/ etc. brag about less than 240 hp and 300 lbft at the wheels...

[jfowlzj95]

As far as I know, 93-95 5.2s got the 46rh and 96-98 5.2s got the 44re. Somebody correct me if I'm wrong, but I think 5.9s got the 46re.

Pretty sure you're right, especially on the earlier models. My 95 has the 46rh.

[LoneWJ]

4BT.

[Jeeptech01]

As far as I know, 93-95 5.2s got the 46rh and 96-98 5.2s got the 44re. Somebody correct me if I'm wrong, but I think 5.9s got the 46re.

I do like the 5.2 in the ZJ more than a 4.0, but it just feels like it falls on its face around 3000-3500 rpm. If you're just cruising around, you wouldn't have any problems, but if you like power and have high expectations of a v8 it's a bit disappointing in my experience. For as little power as it makes, it gets shit mileage even stock compared to what you're used to messing with. I'm sure a cam and porting the intake and heads would help some. I don't think you want to be the guy with $8k in a sub-450 hp motor...

FWIW, R/T Dakota guys with about $2k aftermarket headers/ exhaust/ itake/ 1.7:1 rockers/ hypertech/ etc. brag about less than 240 hp and 300 lbft at the wheels...

Ha yea you saw that comment about the 8k stroked niner huh. Good to know about the tranny applications. I think there are two inherent advantages of the 4.7 p train over the magnum. One is head design and the other is trans efficiency. The RT guys power numbers always cracked me up too. My big fear is not being unimpressed with the magnum powertrain it is more having a mediocre performance combined with poorer economy than the 4.0. Right now with the power sapping heat box aw4 4.10's and 33x11.5 Im getting 17-18 mpg with no engine mods. This swap needs to make the number go up or at least stay the same. The mileage numbers above for the various powertrains are all pretty close. But the ZJ #'s are for a vehicle that is roughly 700?lbs heavier than an xj and the wj is 1200?lbs heavier. So they should be higher with less weight? Thoughts???

4BT.

[Jeeptech01]

Curb Weights according to consumer guide auto

xj 4dr 3224
zj (98) 3697
wj 3916

so the zj is about 500lb heavier and the wj is about 700lb heavier DAYUM.

[IndyZJ]

4.0 and 5.2 ZJs are pretty close MPG wise, but I don't think the mild performance increase is worth the effort and expense to swap (if we're talking stock parts). I would rather build the 4.0 for the same money... It's a cam and porting away from 5.2-like numbers, and I bet a fresh mild 4.0 would outperform a tired 5.2. I guess that doesn't really help much

[ATL ZJ]

4.0 and 5.2 ZJs are pretty close MPG wise, but I don't think the mild performance increase is worth the effort and expense to swap (if we're talking stock parts). I would rather build the 4.0 for the same money... It's a cam and porting away from 5.2-like numbers, and I bet a fresh mild 4.0 would outperform a tired 5.2. I guess that doesn't really help much

x2. It's amazing what a 4.0 will do with just a ported head and wj intake manifold. plus they are damn near bulletproof and can take some unbelievable abuse running on their side and with no oil pressure, etc.

Out of the choices, personally I would like to see the 4.7. Or a cammed 5.3

[Jeeptech01]

I am skeptical that a cam and head porting is gonna get 30hp and 60ftlb on a 4.0. I suppose it is possible but I would think it would hurt the bottom end power a bit.

Here were my plans for a mild 4.0

Rering kit $395
Deck the block for more compression and better quench # $75
505 Cam kit with cam lifters springs locks etc $398
New aftermarket head (to replace cracked one) $400
Hot tank block $75

Thats $1343

Now Im not including exhaust work or porting etc since I'll do all that and honestly either one will require it.

So.. What do we think here. $1300 is pretty much what a WJ donor vehicle will cost me and from what I've seen a ZJ donor will run me $7-900 and I'll need to build mounts. Oh I already have the good intake and tb since mine is an 01. If you guys think it is an attainible goal for the 4.0 then there is no reason for the swap. That old voice in the back of my head keeps saying no replacement for displacement.

[tennesseewj]

That old voice in the back of my head keeps saying no replacement for displacement.

What about building a stoker? Even a budget 4.0 stroker puts out 4.7 comparable numbers. I think you could build it for about the budget you had planned for the mild 4.0 build, too.