Thread: TOTM: Steering

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  1. #26 Re: TOTM: September - Steering 
    Senior Member ATL ZJ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by slim616 View Post
    I haven't seen this mentioned here but I know it been covered in other post. We should go over pumps and tips on keeping them from burning up. I mailed my PSC pump out today to see if they'll warranty it. I was thinking about picking up another and throwing it in and just keeping the old one as a spare in case of problems. What do you all suggest. If i remember correctly I think the majority had like Howe i think?

    Also just MY .02 when you upgrade to hydro assist or full hydro, spare parts are a must to keep with you. By not having them really brings the suck when you try to get the rig off the trail.

    This is one thing I at least like about hydro assist is if something goes wrong you can just cap the lines and still limp it off the trail. Full hrdryo means your screwed till you can fix the parts.
    This is why I have been preaching field serviceable fittings for the last 3 years.

    I love my stock Chevy van pump. And if I do blow one, they are a stock item at every mom and pop and chain parts store in America. BTW I carry two power steering pump pullers with me in my big box of wheeling junk, just in case... if any of you guys ever need to borrow one when we are on the trail together
     

  2. #27 Re: TOTM: September - Steering 
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    I burned out two pumps on my hydro assist before I smarted up and added a cooler. Just used a regular tranny cooler and plumbed it into the return line.

    I'm using an 8" ram with a 4" bore. Its a bit slow, either need a bigger flow pump or smaller ram. Thinking maybe a smaller ram since I've got tons of power as it is. My setup naturally bottoms out before the knuckles do so no problem there.
    1998 5.9er, 6" Claytons Long arm, D30(elocker), Rubi D44 rear, TJ Addco rear sway bar, WJ knuckles/brakes, 4.10s, 33s, 9.5ti

    '93 ZJ LTD, 5.2L, Claytons Longarm, 8" lift D44 front(w/elocker), D60 rear(welded), 37" IROKS, 5.38s, 9.5ti<scrapped>
     

  3. #28 Re: TOTM: September - Steering 
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    Quote Originally Posted by cLAYH View Post
    4" bore.
    Are you sure?
    Pics? My log splitter has a 4" bore ram!
    That would be hella slow but definately have some power.
     

  4. #29 Re: TOTM: September - Steering 
    Senior Member ATL ZJ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SB406 View Post
    Are you sure?
    Pics? My log splitter has a 4" bore ram!
    That would be hella slow but definately have some power.
    Holy crap, why would you ever use a 4" cylinder? You couldn't pay me to run that, especially on a 44
     

  5. #30 Re: TOTM: September - Steering 
    Senior Member zjeepin's Avatar
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    Since its still september for a few more days I'll post up my current steering problem..

    I'm in the process of switching from my single ended ram to a balanced cylinder.

    The problem I have is that my orbital puts out 10.2 cu/in/rev, with the common size of balanced cylinders being 2.5x8x1.5(shaft) i'll only have 2.5 turns lock to lock.

    does anyone know of a cylinder with a smaller shaft? 1.25 would be perfect as i'd have right at 3 turns
     

  6. #31 Re: TOTM: September - Steering 
    My avatar isn't animated Lifetime Supporter SirFuego's Avatar
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    Is there any way you can rework your steering to allow for a 10" stroke lock to lock? 2.5x1.5x10 would put you right at 3 turns. I don't know how long that would require your hi-steer arms to be, so that might not be doable. Definitely more complicated than just getting the right-size ram to begin with, though.

    Might want to post on Pirate and see if anyone is willing to trade for a setup around 8 cu/in/rev.
    Last edited by SirFuego; 09-27-2010 at 12:08 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by SB406
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    "The Former"- Lay Jeep against obstacle in trail. Mat gas pedal. Form Jeep to the shape of obstacle.
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  7. #32 Re: TOTM: September - Steering 
    Senior Member AgitatedPancake's Avatar
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    Long hi-steer arms you have to start worrying about fitting them inside the wheel. Leaning the hi-steer arm inward toward the center of the truck to clear the rim/tire would throw your ackerman outta whack too...hmm
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  8. #33 Re: TOTM: September - Steering 
    Senior Member ATL ZJ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zjeepin View Post
    Since its still september for a few more days I'll post up my current steering problem..

    I'm in the process of switching from my single ended ram to a balanced cylinder.

    The problem I have is that my orbital puts out 10.2 cu/in/rev, with the common size of balanced cylinders being 2.5x8x1.5(shaft) i'll only have 2.5 turns lock to lock.

    does anyone know of a cylinder with a smaller shaft? 1.25 would be perfect as i'd have right at 3 turns
    I hate to say this but I think you need to swap orbitals... Think anybody would be willing to trade you straight up for a lower displacement orbital? Yours would be perfect in one of those neon color tube hill climber buggies that never go fast. I think 2.5 turns is a little too quick to be safe on the gravel and the street with either the PSC or surplus center cylinders, unless you wanted to swap on a mongo schoolbus steering wheel or something. And it would suck to buy a fluid hungry cylinder and find out your pump doesn't have enough flow, just because of an oddball orbital...

    you could always just try the 2.5 turns and if you end up not liking it, you can be on the lookout to trade your orbital. not having run 2.5 turns I can only guess as to what it would feel like...
    Last edited by ATL ZJ; 09-27-2010 at 01:09 PM.
     

  9. #34 Re: TOTM: September - Steering 
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    PSC has a 3" DE ram with 1.5" Rods. The 10.2 Orbital would be 3.25 turns Lock to lock with that.
    What was your old setup? 2.5" SE cylinder?
     

  10. #35 Re: TOTM: September - Steering 
    Senior Member ATL ZJ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SB406 View Post
    PSC has a 3" DE ram with 1.5" Rods. The 10.2 Orbital would be 3.25 turns Lock to lock with that.
    What was your old setup? 2.5" SE cylinder?
    And it would be nonstop pump lag with his current pump. That is way more volume than you need for what we do.
     

  11. #36 Re: TOTM: September - Steering 
    Senior Member zjeepin's Avatar
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    thanks for the thoughts fellers..

    yes, the old setup was 2.5 single ended, 1.125 shaft so the larger displacement was perfect, i had 3.5 turns lock to lock..

    The larger cylinder from psc is a good option i think, it costs a good bit more but would still be cheaper than buying another orbital..

    i have an idea on someone who would benefit by trading orbitals.. just gotta see if i can talk him into it...

    I may just give it a try with 2.5 turns..

    any thoughts on using flow control to slow it down a little?
     

  12. #37 Re: TOTM: September - Steering 
    Senior Member ATL ZJ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zjeepin View Post
    thanks for the thoughts fellers..

    yes, the old setup was 2.5 single ended, 1.125 shaft so the larger displacement was perfect, i had 3.5 turns lock to lock..

    The larger cylinder from psc is a good option i think, it costs a good bit more but would still be cheaper than buying another orbital..

    i have an idea on someone who would benefit by trading orbitals.. just gotta see if i can talk him into it...

    I may just give it a try with 2.5 turns..

    any thoughts on using flow control to slow it down a little?

    Haha I think I know who...

    You could also go with an enormous cylinder like 3" and use it as a reason to build a 4.0l dual p/s pump bracket
     

  13. #38 Re: TOTM: September - Steering 
    Senior Member zjeepin's Avatar
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    it'd be nice if someone made a cylinder with a smaller effin shaft!

    i also thought about buying one of the cylinders and having the shaft ground down ( i know a guy) but then i don't know how i'd go about a seal then..
     

  14. #39 Re: TOTM: September - Steering 
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    Quote Originally Posted by ATL ZJ View Post
    And it would be nonstop pump lag with his current pump. That is way more volume than you need for what we do.
    I have no idea what his current pump is, but I'd imagine you're right. Just throwing it out there since one of my buddies runs the PSC 3" Rockwell ram. Of course, he's feeding it with a PSC pump and turns 54's, but that's another story all together...

    What about a larger PS pulley instead of a flow control valve to decrease the pump flow, if in fact, it turns too fast with the 10.2 orbital and 2.5" DE?
     

  15. #40 Re: TOTM: September - Steering 
    Senior Member ATL ZJ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SB406 View Post
    I have no idea what his current pump is, but I'd imagine you're right. Just throwing it out there since one of my buddies runs the PSC 3" Rockwell ram. Of course, he's feeding it with a PSC pump and turns 54's, but that's another story all together...
    some people do prefer to open their beers with a sledgehammer...

    Quote Originally Posted by SB406 View Post
    What about a larger PS pulley instead of a flow control valve to decrease the pump flow, if in fact, it turns too fast with the 10.2 orbital and 2.5" DE?
    edit: nevermind you said Larger. I misread

    trey, there actually is a machine shop in TN that makes custom cylinders. They are the same one that makes the ones POS sells/sold. I have no idea if they would do a one-off, but I could try to dig up their info. Seems like that would be better than modifying a shaft, trying to chase down pistons and seals and get the shaft recoated
    Last edited by ATL ZJ; 09-27-2010 at 02:07 PM.
     

  16. #41 Re: TOTM: September - Steering 
    Senior Member zjeepin's Avatar
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    cam if you get a minute see if you can find that info.. it can't hurt to ask.

    im working on the orbital trade as we speak.. that would be the best option.

    so i guess the answer to my origonal question is -no, no one makes a balanced cylinder with a smaller shaft.?
     

  17. #42 Re: TOTM: September - Steering 
    Senior Member ATL ZJ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zjeepin View Post
    cam if you get a minute see if you can find that info.. it can't hurt to ask.

    im working on the orbital trade as we speak.. that would be the best option.

    so i guess the answer to my origonal question is -no, no one makes a balanced cylinder with a smaller shaft.?
    I'll try to look, if not this afternoon, tonight.

    howe's are all 2.25" bore IIRC and rockstomper used to make one with a nitrosteel shaft, don't recall the bore and shaft size, but I'm not sure if it is still being produced...
     

  18. #43 Re: TOTM: September - Steering 
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  19. #44 Re: TOTM: September - Steering 
    My avatar isn't animated Lifetime Supporter SirFuego's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zjeepin View Post
    any thoughts on using flow control to slow it down a little?
    That thought crossed my mind, but I'm not a hydraulics expert to know reliable (and expensive) flow control is for this application, so I just decided to not say anything in favor of KISS.
    Quote Originally Posted by SB406
    I think that's your signature move.
    "The Former"- Lay Jeep against obstacle in trail. Mat gas pedal. Form Jeep to the shape of obstacle.
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  20. #45 Re: TOTM: September - Steering 
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    Quote Originally Posted by SB406 View Post
    Are you sure?
    Pics? My log splitter has a 4" bore ram!
    That would be hella slow but definately have some power.

    HEH HEH, my bad. Its a 1.75 bore. I was doing some measurements and the outer case is like 4" and that got stuck in my head. Sorry about that.
    1998 5.9er, 6" Claytons Long arm, D30(elocker), Rubi D44 rear, TJ Addco rear sway bar, WJ knuckles/brakes, 4.10s, 33s, 9.5ti

    '93 ZJ LTD, 5.2L, Claytons Longarm, 8" lift D44 front(w/elocker), D60 rear(welded), 37" IROKS, 5.38s, 9.5ti<scrapped>
     

  21. #46 Re: TOTM: September - Steering 
    Senior Member Jeeptech01's Avatar
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    Anybody???

    Quote Originally Posted by Jeeptech01 View Post
    I have a question I'd like answered if someone could. It is in regard to keeping the tb and dl in paralell.

    So if one goes to an otk setup the tb and dl will no longer be paralell. There are 2 forseeable ways to fix this (at least to me) one easy and one hard/time consuming.

    1) Build higher tb mount on axle which will mean moving it inboard and shortening the tb. This will result in paralell tb and dl that are in the same plane but will follow a different arc due to length differences.

    2) Change pittman arm to make dl and tb paralell but they wont be in the same plane. However they will follow similar arc since they are very close in length.

    Please correct me If Im wrong on my above statements/assumptions. My question is this what are the strengths/weaknesses and drivability issues with the above solutions. Im trying to figure out which way is right for me.
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  22. #47 Re: TOTM: September - Steering 
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeeptech01 View Post
    I have a question I'd like answered if someone could. It is in regard to keeping the tb and dl in paralell.

    So if one goes to an otk setup the tb and dl will no longer be paralell. There are 2 forseeable ways to fix this (at least to me) one easy and one hard/time consuming.

    1) Build higher tb mount on axle which will mean moving it inboard and shortening the tb. This will result in paralell tb and dl that are in the same plane but will follow a different arc due to length differences.

    2) Change pittman arm to make dl and tb paralell but they wont be in the same plane. However they will follow similar arc since they are very close in length.

    Please correct me If Im wrong on my above statements/assumptions. My question is this what are the strengths/weaknesses and drivability issues with the above solutions. Im trying to figure out which way is right for me.
    You're right on 1 and 2. My preference would be to have the DL and TB close to the same length (scenario 2). Either one works but it probably has more to do with what you have room for and what works best on a particular rig. Think about this, in either situation you will minimize bump steer on the street and only in high travel situations will you actually get any bumpsteer at all. Unless you plan on desert racing style wheeling you would probably never notice the minimal bump steer from scenario 1.

    Like almost everything, it's a compromise.
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  23. #48 Re: TOTM: September - Steering 
    Senior Member Jeeptech01's Avatar
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    Thanks for answering that for me! Option 2 seems like alot less work but I didnt want to fook my drivability by taking the easy way out. I have been doing alot of reading on the subject but it seemed like a 50/50 split on the same plane vs different arc debate.
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  24. #49 Re: TOTM: September - Steering 
    My avatar isn't animated Lifetime Supporter SirFuego's Avatar
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    I'm going to be taking my steering off shortly. I'll try to remember to measure the eye to eye lengths of my drag link and track bar. I know they were almost completely parallel and I had no bump steer, but I don't think they are the same length, but I could be very wrong about that because the mounting points are slightly offset.

    I used to live by a set of rail road tracks that everyone slowed down to like 5 mph to go over. The night I drove home my Jeep after the steering was setup, I drove over those tracks at about 30 with zero bump steer.
    Quote Originally Posted by SB406
    I think that's your signature move.
    "The Former"- Lay Jeep against obstacle in trail. Mat gas pedal. Form Jeep to the shape of obstacle.
    Robot
     

  25. #50 Re: TOTM: September - Steering 
    Senior Member Jeeptech01's Avatar
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    Cool. Were the tb and dl in the same plane or just paralell.

    Cant reacall if your rig is torn down or not yet.

    ed: nevermind. Forgot you posted that pic on pg 1.
    Last edited by Jeeptech01; 10-07-2010 at 08:49 AM.
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