Jeeptech's SAK (swiss army knife) XJ build FINALLY 4X4

[it usually runs fine]

or else the slip yoke has play in it.

[Jeeptech01]

The shaft is in good shape. It looks like the pinion angle is at about 10* but there isnt any really good place to check the pinion angle on the turdy five with the ds on. I knew it was off but not that bad. Plus I was thinking the pinion angle should be around 5-7* but now I remember Im not building a drag car lol. Old habits.. That makes sense too since I found if I accel hard the vibes are gone since the pinion is walked up higher than at low throttle.

Anybody know a good place to get shims for the xj?

[Jeeptech01]

Ok time for an update. All the new suspension parts are installed and all alignment and driveline vibe issues are fixed and the rig drives exceptionally well. YAY! I was hoping to have some tires by now but no dice. I think I'll be purchasing some 285 75 16's for the stock wheels for now. Also I noticed an oil pressure issue that Im keeping an eye on for now and may use as an excuse for a 5.3 later Heres some pics













I have also since pulled off the flares and will be cutting it soon but my neighbor is gonna buff the whole thing out in trade for some work on his caddys

[leeanderthal]

Lookin good. I like the lifts you have at work alot. I just got a old rotary 8000, and some real old shitty lifts where I work. Nice progress, after tires on to axles?

[Jeeptech01]

I hated having above ground lifts. Now Im spoiled!! Twin post ingrounds FTW!

Thanks BTW and yes tires, bumper build, axles...

Im also gonna need to track down the coolant consumption on the 4.0. It eats about 1/2 gal per week It isnt making coffee of the oil but I think it is in the crankcase because of the oil pressure issues I have been seeing. Either the head is cracked or the gasket is bad. But since someone had replaced the hg shortly before I bought it Im afraid it is probably the latter.

[DJJordache]

yay to 4wd conversions! <wish I had an AW4>

EDIT:I read you got the PORC SYE. What issues did you have with it? I also have the PORC unit and had issues with the new housing and the shifter rail. I had to clearance out the new housing where the shift rod goes into to allow shifting or it would just lock up....

[Jeeptech01]

Tks I love mah aw4 but sadly it will go away at some point in the somewhat near future....


5.3 time bisches!!!! I was gonna turbo the 4.0 but since it is wounded from a life of neglect I have no choice. Plus I've said it before and I'll say it again I put ls motors in everything. I've even eyeballed my lawnmover a few times.

The porc was ok for the price. It was missing the plug for the vac disco port and one snap ring for the speedo gear. They sent them both out asap and exhibited good cust service despite what I read.

[Jeeptech01]

Ok I had typed a large question that I somehow deleted so Im trying to add the 231 to the 4l60 or 4l65 without buying the $600 novak part. Suggestions hopefully without spending that much at the jy buying 3 diff t cases for the parts reqd. I will also be looking at the polar bear and dave jeeps buildup too.

[AgitatedPancake]

how many splines are the output of the 4l60/65?

[IndyZJ]

edit: That didn't take long! haha

I think GM may have changed the bolt pattern somewhere along the line on the factory T-case adapter, but you might be able to use a Chevy 231 and even use the SYE you already bought. I've got a 700r4 with a Chevy 231HD with a JB Conversions 32 spline SYE for a Jeep so I can use the factory speedometer.

Don't quote me on this, but I think I read something about the later GM bolt pattern being pretty close to the Jeep T-case pattern, close enough that you can make it work with a little die grinder/ dremel work. Then you'd just have to swap input shafts for the GM 27 spline input. I may be speaking out of my ass on this one, but I could have sworn I've seen it somewhere. Look through the 5.3 Jeeps thread on Pirate4x4.

edit again: Found it! Post # 542
http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showt...735270&page=22

You could be all blingy and go to a 233C/ Jeep 231 doubler and have a push button doubler range.

[Jeeptech01]

AP I believe it is 27 spline as indy stated.

Indy I read the post you linked sucks to spend $350 in order to avoid $500. Apparently the big expense and pita is the vss in his description. I assume the gm pcm needs a output speed signal for the trans that it normally gets from the t case. Why not just adapt the jeep vss on the t case to a gm friendly one?

ed: I suppose the gm pcm may become pissed when in 4 lo (not that I use it much) but there must be a way to tell it the t case range selection.

[IndyZJ]

Yeah, I don't really know about the VSS he added in the adapter. Like you said, I think it is there to tell the pcm it's in low range, probably for shift points in the 4l60e. I wish I could be more helpful there, but that's one reason I stayed with a 700r4.

I would imagine that you could set the tune in the pcm to accept the Jeep signal or use a signal converter, but then the 4l60e probably wouldn't shift correctly while in low range since it would think it was going 2.72 times slower than it should be.

Check this out:
http://www.jagsthatrun.com/Pages/Spe..._Reluctor.html

[Jeeptech01]

Im sure the 4l60 uses an input and output speed sensor like most autos do to verify proper operation. Most trans have them both on the case though. Apparently chevy does not. I bet its there on the 2wd but for 4x4 it must use the one on the t case. If that is so the pcm must read some range switch on the t case I suppose so maybe I can tap into that?

ed: So besides little bs issues the mating can occur without novak getting an additional $500. WOOT

I'll be doing alot more research over the next few weeks and start parts gathering. Since this is my dd I'll have to pull off the swap in like a week so I need to be prepared. Good thing I've already swapped like 5 of these motors into places they didnt belong.

[AgitatedPancake]

I know this sucks, but have you looked into a 241? They have 6 planetary gearsets, the wide 1.25" chain and a 32 spline output stock. It's almost identical to the 242HD, same case halves, rear tailcone, wide chain and all. It only has 2hi-4hi-n-4lo, but definately BEEFY. The reason I say it, is I KNOW it came behind a lot of big chevy's, so I'd guess it also came with the 27 spline input you have.

Hell another option, you might be able to pick up one of those 241C's from the JY and tear it apart to beef up your 231. Put the wide chain, 6 planetary reduction and 27 spline front output in your 231 so you can keep your SYE

[IndyZJ]

Hell another option, you might be able to pick up one of those 241C's from the JY and tear it apart to beef up your 231. Put the wide chain, 6 planetary reduction and 27 spline front output in your 231 so you can keep your SYE

A lot of 231Cs have all of that, too, and will accept the current SYE. After doing some more research, it looks like somewhere along the line Chevy went from a 5 to 6 bolt pattern on the T-case, but it appears they kept the same 4 bolt pattern at the trans. It looks like you could swap an earlier factory adapter from a 700r4/ 4l60 and use a 231C with the Jeep SYE for your speedo.

Of course, you could rip your current 231 apart and swap in the Chevy internals. Then you could mate it to your current adapter like in the pirate thread I gave the link for. You'd basically get the same result. If you go to a junkyard to get a 231C, you could also get the adapter that goes with it just to try it out before you completely tear down 2 cases.

Either way, the JTR VSS setup would be the cheapest, simplest aftermarket way to get a signal before the t-case. All said and done it's less than half what Advanced Adapters gets and is easier to install.

[DaveJeep]

I used my NP242j on the late model 4l60e. It had the 6 bolt t-case adapter on it since it's from a full size truck. The s10 4l60e has a 5 bolt t-case adapter. I used the t-case input shaft from the S10 NP231c t-case in my NP242j. Spline problem solved.

I used a regular Dana 300 clocking ring, since they use the same pattern just clocked differently. Took a few tries to get it to seal between the transmission and t-case though.

For the Advanced Adapters #716073 for the VSS (minus the sensor since I had one with the NP231c t-case) I just found a core and robbed the VSS and input shaft.

[Jeeptech01]

Wow. Well I definitely have some options in front of me then. I planned to upgrade the 231j with 231 or 241 parts anyway so swapping the input in at the same time would be fairly easy.

What I dont understand is where the hell is the 4l60 vss normally? Why are we having to add a reluctor to it if there wasnt one there to start with?

I've seen sye's that use a chevy style vss on them. I could probably remove my speedo worm gear and install a reluctor there and then just pop the vss in the speedo hole right? The only time it would get pissed would be in 4lo but hell I'd probably have the trans in commanded first or second gear anyway. Worst case scenario I have to clear a dtc.

[DaveJeep]

I'm pretty sure the VSS for the GM is in the t-case and there's a 4low signal that tells the PCM it's in 4low so it does the conversion itself.

Another shitty thing with the 4l60e is if you put it down in first it will shift on it's own into 2nd even at light throttle if the RPMs are up there a bit.

[it usually runs fine]

hey jeeptech. Does your aw4 shift from 1st to 2nd and so in 4lo?

[Jeeptech01]

Thanks for the reply Dave. I didnt know that about the 4l60 upshifting. I figured the pcm probably got the output speed from the sensor on the case. So provided the low range ratio on the chevy case is 2.72 I can hook the t case range wire from the gm pcm to my jeep t case switch. I dont understand why everybody is making it so hard on themselves?

Runs Fine I've never tried it. AW4 trans will always shift at redline no matter what gear you have the selector in but Im not sure about normal operation.

[IndyZJ]

I hadn't done much research into the VSS issue because of my 700r4, but it looks like it will shift just fine off the Jeep 3 pulse signal if you set the PCM to work with it. Does the GM low range signal come from switch on the dash or off the t-case? Or is it as simple as an opened/ closed 12v signal?

IDK if the 4l60e's unwanted upshift can be programed out or of it's something internal, but I know the 4l60e in my 'vette will let it bounce off the rev limiter in 1st and 2nd until I shift it. There's definitely a way to make it stay in the gear you put it in.

[Jeeptech01]

I figure I'll have to have the anti theft and rear o2's programmed out anyway so I can have the other stuff done at the same time I guess. I know the gm is electric shift on the dash so Im not sure how the circut works. Im sure I can replicate it though.

If all else fails I can just bolt an old style 700r up to the 5.3 all I need is a special converter or a spacer. Id like to have the benefits of the computer controlled unit if possible though.

I've also decided to run dedicated guages instead of trying to piggyback off the jeep pcm to simplify the install.

I am getting things together for the front bumper now and should be ordering a set of 285 75 16's from treadwright if the deal Im working on goes through (dont wanna jinx it) Then after the 8.8 is in and setup I'll start getting uber serious about the vortec swap. All the research up to now looks very favorable.

[DaveJeep]

It may be able to be tuned out. Have not looked in my program yet. Or it may just have something to do with the truck PCM.

[Jeeptech01]

Ok update.. I have confirmed the head is cracked in the normal spot below the oil fill cap. Im not sure how much time it has left but Im gonna have to do something about it in the next few months. The sale on the Buick seems to have fallen through again so I dont see the 5.3 swap happening anytime soon ;( but the 4.0 should get warmed up a bit while I have it apart so

So heres my bumper. Right now its a stubby style I kinda like it this way but would also like some more protection. Im considering wrapping around the front with some mitered 2x2 .188 wall. The center is 2x5 .250 wall. I know it shows the factory x member but the 2x6 didnt look right on there. I think I'll just trim and paint it so its not as noticeable.

Feedback plz.







My welds with my new welding helmet not bad for a 140a welder and .250 wall IMO

[ajmorell]

JT, I don't think it's a bad start but for sure you should wrap it around the sides to give it a more finished look....unless you were going for the rusty rat-rod look, in which-case nice work.