creative ways to haul my M416?

[BigDaveZJ]

So there's a chance that we may sell Pam's ZJ over the summer and go down to one Jeep for a multitude of reasons. One of the downfalls to this is how to get our camping trailer to and from the trails. Last summer my ZJ went on the carhauler, and Pam's ZJ towed the M416 until we hit the trail, then I pulled it with the ZJ. I could just hook it up to my ZJ and drive it to the trail, but if I have a tow rig and trailer, I don't really want to leave it at home when I could need it to get home.

One option I've thought of is to sell our 16' trailer and use the money from that towards a ~24' trailer, which would hold my ZJ and the M416 together just fine. This is the most likely option, but also adds $1500 to our investment into trailers.

If I could figure out someway to get the M416 into the bed of the truck, that might be a cheaper, although more of a PITA alternative. From front to back it's about 9', and the axle is the same width as a Jeep. It weighed 600lbs in stock form, and fully loaded for a trip I'm guessing >1000lbs for sure. Not exactly weight I want up real high, and I would need an easy way to actually get it in and out of the bed.

Outside of a tandem tow with the M416 off the back of the car hauler is there an "easy" option that I'm overlooking?

[fpkites]

Tandem is the only thing I can think of - hoisting 1k lbs in and out of the bed would bring the suck, and the length is just a bit more than the 6' of bed on the truck.

[LouisianaZJ]

tandem, may or may not be legal in your area

or put all the crap in the zj or truck bed

[BigDaveZJ]

Tandem here is legal I believe if the lead trailer is a goose/fifth wheel, my car hauler is not.

If I had some ramps that could go from the deck of the trailer to the tailgate, backing the M416 up those ramps wouldn't be too hard, but it'd be too wide to sit between the bed rails. I think I'm just gonna have to suck it up and get a bigger trailer.

Putting all the crap in the ZJ or truck bed will work fine for day trips or when we're in a hotel, but when we take the M416 with us we'll be gone for 5+ days at a time, in different spots most nights, and covering several hundred trail miles over that time.

[AgitatedPancake]

If you drop the tongue under the ZJ and roll it as far under as you could, could you squeeze it onto the trailer?

I just pulled up some images off google, and it looks like you could butt the trailer up right against the rear bumper

[LouisianaZJ]

w/a 16" trailer im guessing the ZJ is taking up most of the real estate

[BigDaveZJ]

w/a 16" trailer im guessing the ZJ is taking up most of the real estate

Yup. ZJ's are about 15' bumper to bumper.

[Sporer65]

Tandem here is legal I believe if the lead trailer is a goose/fifth wheel, my car hauler is not.

Might want to check that again. A lot of times, tandem is about overall length. So as long as the car hauler+trailer are under a certain length (I want to say 35 ft for some reason) then you're fine.


Or you could always just buy a flat bed for your truck and just back the trailer up onto that. But that's just me. I'm a sucker for a flat bed on a 3/4 or 1 ton truck.

[CrawlerReady]

Might want to check that again. A lot of times, tandem is about overall length. So as long as the car hauler+trailer are under a certain length (I want to say 35 ft for some reason) then you're fine.

It's ~64' here in Utah, I'd imagine it's more than 35' elsewhere that was legal.

[Sporer65]

It's ~64' here in Utah, I'd imagine it's more than 35' elsewhere that was legal.

Probably right. Just for some reason, 35 ft was the number in my head.

[sasdranger]

64's a lot of trailer(s) for a 3/4 or 1 ton.. most Semi box trailers are what? 52?


anddd dug up from the dead. oops

[BigDaveZJ]

I think they were talking 64' overall length maybe??

[K2]

I think they were talking 64' overall length maybe??

I think they are. I think CO is 71'6", something weird. My neighbor has a 4 door Dodge long bed, fifthwheel, and a boat, he is ~4" too long to be legal, but...

well you can decide how far you can push the letter of the law.

[CrawlerReady]

64's a lot of trailer(s) for a 3/4 or 1 ton.. most Semi box trailers are what? 52?


anddd dug up from the dead. oops

Yes. Like Dave said, ~64' is including the length of the tow rig.

[Sudz]

stack that mofo

http://www.doubledecksporttrailers.com/

[K2]

http://www.colorado4x4.org/vbb/showthread.php?t=166778

[sasdranger]

yea 64' isn't too bad including a giant ass tow rig lol

[Cody]

For a lot of people the little expedition trailers create more problems than they solve. that's why I sold mine.

personally, have a rig that you have to trailer to and from longer expedition trails kind of defeats the purpose.

[BigDaveZJ]

personally, have a rig that you have to trailer to and from longer expedition trails kind of defeats the purpose.

That's part of what the roof project was all about. And for the stuff that's closer to home, I won't mess with the truck and trailer. But this summer when we do Ouray, or if went out to San Rafael Swell or somewhere in UT, it'd be nice to be able to just throw my busted crap on a trailer, jump in the truck, and head for home.

[Cody]

I'm not criticizing you--I just think you're starting to go through the same pattern that I did with vehicles so I have some opinions based on my experience. (me, opinions? no way!)

I definitely understand the convenience of having a safety net in case of breakage, but if you have to plan your long distance trips around the ability to circle back to your trailer you'll effectively eliminate some pretty awesome routes. For a trip to Moab, a trailer is awesome (I'm looking to line one up for GSW which is sadly about the only trip throughout the year that I wheel hard enough terrain to make a trailer practical), but for a trip through the Maze or into the Swell it places some unnecessary logistical restrictions on the itinerary.

Think of how many more trips you could afford if you sold your rig, put a little more money into Pam's and sold your truck/trailer? It's not like you're doing trails in your ZJ that Pam's ZJ couldn't do with a little extra love, and the truck while convenient, does take up a lot of resources. How much easier would a trip to the swell be if you didn't have to prep a truck, a trailer, the m416, and a rig then drag it all out of town?

Hell, build Pam's ZJ up so it can handle 35's safely, sell your tow rig and pick up a 4 door taco. You'll have a truck for hauling gear and/or commuting, a ZJ to beat on more difficult trails (and lets be honest, for posterity) and probably the mostest awesomest expedition/camping/long distance wheelin rig out there the 4 door taco. A ZJ built the right way on 35's is more than fine getting itself to and from Moab and, worst case scenario, you have enough friends around you with trucks and trailers that you could likely borrow one once a year for the trips you go on where breakage is more likely.

[K2]

I'm not criticizing you--I just think you're starting to go through the same pattern that I did with vehicles so I have some opinions based on my experience. (me, opinions? no way!)

I definitely understand the convenience of having a safety net in case of breakage, but if you have to plan your long distance trips around the ability to circle back to your trailer you'll effectively eliminate some pretty awesome routes. For a trip to Moab, a trailer is awesome (I'm looking to line one up for GSW which is sadly about the only trip throughout the year that I wheel hard enough terrain to make a trailer practical), but for a trip through the Maze or into the Swell it places some unnecessary logistical restrictions on the itinerary.

Think of how many more trips you could afford if you sold your rig, put a little more money into Pam's and sold your truck/trailer? It's not like you're doing trails in your ZJ that Pam's ZJ couldn't do with a little extra love, and the truck while convenient, does take up a lot of resources. How much easier would a trip to the swell be if you didn't have to prep a truck, a trailer, the m416, and a rig then drag it all out of town?

Hell, build Pam's ZJ up so it can handle 35's safely, sell your tow rig and pick up a 4 door taco. You'll have a truck for hauling gear and/or commuting, a ZJ to beat on more difficult trails (and lets be honest, for posterity) and probably the mostest awesomest expedition/camping/long distance wheelin rig out there the 4 door taco. A ZJ built the right way on 35's is more than fine getting itself to and from Moab and, worst case scenario, you have enough friends around you with trucks and trailers that you could likely borrow one once a year for the trips you go on where breakage is more likely.

And you can use the trailer to tow all of the tires you will need to get you home!

[BigDaveZJ]

I've definitely thought about getting something along the lines of this for a DD/light wheeler: http://denver.craigslist.org/ctd/1714970079.html

I don't want to DD the F250 much longer, at 160k it's nearing its useful life as a DD, but for the vast majority of our day trips and Moab trips having the trailer is very nice. I still enjoy pushing the limits of my ZJ, and since it's already setup to run 35's, I'd rather keep mine and sell Pam's.

So we'll see what happens. A little bigger trailer, and getting rid of Pam's ZJ in exchange for a DD double cab Taco that's an expedition rig/DD would be ideal, but pretty dang expensive.

[Cody]

I certainly miss my truck and miss the shit out of my buggy and just like you I worked hard to get to the point that I had all of that stuff....but the buggy led to a truck...the truck led to a trailer....and all of that led to a house that had extra parking and taking care of all of that stuff took away my time and money from the thing that led me to it in the first place--going wheelin with my friends. Hopefully one day I'll have a buggy again but I have to be honest with myself because spending 50-60-100 days per year in Moab isn't an option for me anymore and I would have to make a south nigerian shit ton of money to justify a buggy...that requires a tow rig....that requires a car trailer....that requires parking...that I only use a dozen days per year. I have no desire to be a slave to my toys.

This is kind of an ongoing discussion on another board. The advent of the "overland expedition" movement has really just frenched up car camping to appeal to gear heads. Is it all about the comforts and extra stuff you have--the fridges, the roof top tents, the trailers, the showers etc, or is it about the trip and experience? If I had to deal with maintaining, prepping, and packing a tow rig, jeep trailer, jeep, m416 and all of the associated gear just for a five day trip, it would take the fun out of it for me. Look at this thread, it's about trying to find a way to haul a trailer on a trailer so you can go out. If your gear is keeping you from getting out, then I think the point has been missed.

I can prep and pack for 2 people for 5-7 days in about an hour (with room to spare--I hate my rear view being obstructed), and I can break camp and be on the trail again in 10 minutes. Kids, dogs, extra wives (and by "extra" I mean "a" wife) etc will all throw the equation out of balance and at that point space, comfort, and convenience come at a premium that is probably worth paying for.

[BigDaveZJ]

Funny you mention car camping for gear heads, I originally bought my ZJ so I could go camping at cool spots in the mountains with NO intention of doing anything close to some of the stuff I've done with it. Kinda coming full circle, but I got hooked on pushing my rigs limits along the way.

For the most part I don't mind the wrenching and the up-keep. I'm not like chad and Trango where I wheel just to break something so I can come back and design and build something eleventy billion times stronger, but I do enjoy that aspect of all this. It's almost an experience in itself. Definitely different than spending a week with friends hundreds of miles from nowhere, but it can still be a good time.

The gadgets can be fun, but I'm certainly not looking to become a "glamper" as some on ExPo have coined it. If I spend a few days in the garage making a lid for my M416 that I can mount an RTT to that will get me in front of the campfire with a beer 20 minutes quicker at camp, that's a good payoff IMO.

[Cody]

The gadgets can be fun, but I'm certainly not looking to become a "glamper" as some on ExPo have coined it. If I spend a few days in the garage making a lid for my M416 that I can mount an RTT to that will get me in front of the campfire with a beer 20 minutes quicker at camp, that's a good payoff IMO.

Having those accessories doesn't make you a glamper. Not being able to go camping without them does, and sacrificing time out on the trail so you can purchase a new accessory that is being masqueraded as a necessity does. Basically, being a slave to your fancy toys does. I don't think you're that way at all, but the number one critic of RTT's, expedition trailers, and their ilk also happens to be the guy that is one of the largest dealers for them.

Don't get me wrong, I've spent dozens of nights sleeping in RTT's over the past couple of years and they are awesome. They definitely aren't any faster up and down, and if you are base camping it then having to take it down to be mobile is kind of a PITA. The guys in our group with them aren't setup any sooner, but at 3 a.m. they sure were outside in a hurry taking them down and taking residence up in the cab of their truck when the 50-70 mph winds kicked up at the maze overlook a few weeks ago.

From a pure time accounting point, if you spend 20 hours and $1000 to make a lid and buy a tent for your m416, is that still worth it? Then when you go out you don't want to leave your expensive trailer at home, so you have to buy a bigger car trailer to haul it--that's another $500. Is that still worth it? Now the time spent maintaining the tow rig, the trailer, the m416 and the associated financial costs of those activities factored in, does that make still make it worth it? You may enjoy a lot of that stuff, so maybe it is.

It's like the story about the mexican fisherman...

http://www.protolink.com/MexicanFisherman.html

Shit, cut out all the extra stuff and just drink that beer. Life is easy For the cost of a RTT and a few days in the garage, you could spend a week camping on the beach in mexico drinking corona's, watching the sunset, and eating fish tacos.

I had an m416 with the same intent as you--to put a tent on it. But I decided to keep it simple and not haul another contraption on the trail and risk it's own flats and issues...and for what? I can fit everything I could possibly need in the jeep just fine. I can also cover ground a lot faster without it.

I hope you don't think I'm being a jerk about this. I'm just bored and playing the devil's advocate a little.