Stage II - bigger, heavier, slower.

[rstrucks]

Well, the time has come to start making some upgrades and changes to my '98. I have driven and wheeled it with the ~ 6" lift, 35's, ARB's, and 4.56's for about a year and a half and 12K miles. After going back and forth I have decided to sell some of my other junk and focus on the ZJ - even if it means going down the path of no return.



The plan is to run 37's and make the changes needed to not break too much. Over the next month or so I plan on upgrading the front axle, adding an inch or two of wheelbase, modifying the front bumper for a winch, and finally adding a CB. There are other small repairs and mods I'll be making along the way.

My Currie "60" will actually be a "60"! I'll be replacing the D30 inner C's and knuckles with Ford Super Duty D50/60 ball joint parts. I found a good deal on a D50 at a junkyard but I plan on only using the axle from the C's out. The knuckles will be machined for high steer arms, the unit bearings will be machined down, bored out, and drilled for 5x5.5". I may run the stock 30 spline outers for now if money gets spent on other parts first - although it would be nice to do it right the first time and get 35 spline shafts. And yes, I know that "doing it right" for some may mean kingpin knuckles, spinldles, and drive slugs, but for me this will do. Plus it was cheap.

Check out the difference in Dana 30 knuckles and unit bearings and the Ford stuff -


First thing I did was to pull the front axle and tear it down to just the housing with the pinion sitting in it. I did the same to the '00 F-250 axle. I am also swapping the current 30 spline ARB with a 35 spline unit.




Check out the D50 shafts. They use the 60 u-joints and are the same diameter....... until the end where they neck down. For now I will probably only use the outer shafts. I may look into having the stock Ford long shaft cut and replined - thoughts?


Cutting the C's off the SD axle.



Bumper ready for cutting and bracing.


I'm also trying to mentally plan out some sort of a cage too. A roll bar at the minimum, just to have something.

Feedback welcome as I make progress.

[ATL ZJ]

Nice, glad you finally started a thread.

As for getting your long side shaft resplined, I'd say go for it. There are some vendors who cut unequal length splines into shafts to spread out the stress area... I'd go that route. I'm sure you know that ideally the splines should be a little larger than the diameter of the shaft itself, i.e. "neck-up" (think stock 14b shaft)... but ideally we'd all have 300m shafts for free right? Cutting new splines is probably the best bang for the buck choice.

[paulkeith]

I've read of people having success with the ford unit bearings even in competition environments. I think the superduty (the '02+ "real" D60/10.25) running gear is pretty under-appreciated as an upgrade set, especially when you consider the cost.

That is one hell of a neck-down though! I hunted a '02+ superduty just to avoid that D50/D60 axle.

I'm tuned for progress. This should be good.

[northgazj]

I'll start circlin' the buzzards............

What are your plans for the 35's? I could use them if you're going to sell them off.

[CrawlerReady]

NICE! It seems there are quite a few of us going to ton's up front now? Or doing some major upgrades at least.

I'm pretty stoked to see the outcome of this

[SirFuego]

I understand the benefit of moving to 1 ton knuckles (stronger, allow for bigger brakes, etc.), but for tech's sake -- what problems did you actually have as a result of the stock D30 knuckles with your old setup?

[DJJordache]

Nice, glad you finally started a thread.

ditto looking forward to your build

[CrawlerReady]

I understand the benefit of moving to 1 ton knuckles (stronger, allow for bigger brakes, etc.), but for tech's sake -- what problems did you actually have as a result of the stock D30 knuckles with your old setup?

You can't run the D60 joints or outers....would be my guess?

[SirFuego]

I guess I was getting at...

Is this an "I'm sick of breaking stuff" upgrade?
Or a "I know I will be constantly breaking stuff" upgrade?

[CrawlerReady]

Ah, got it.

[ATL ZJ]

I understand the benefit of moving to 1 ton knuckles (stronger, allow for bigger brakes, etc.), but for tech's sake -- what problems did you actually have as a result of the stock D30 knuckles with your old setup?

My guess is because they're too small to accommodate a real 60 shaft/joint. It took him all of 20 minutes to break a d30 ujoint at windrock on the first challenging trail.

Ryan was doing a great job driving... the d30 parts just weren't up to the task.

[rstrucks]

As for getting your long side shaft resplined, I'd say go for it. There are some vendors who cut unequal length splines into shafts to spread out the stress area... I'd go that route. I'm sure you know that ideally the splines should be a little larger than the diameter of the shaft itself, i.e. "neck-up" (think stock 14b shaft)... but ideally we'd all have 300m shafts for free right? Cutting new splines is probably the best bang for the buck choice.

I guess they will have to neck down into the 1.5" 35 spline carrier as the stock Ford shafts look to be a tad larger than 1 9/16ths. I'm thinking they should be okay as long as they (don't know who yet) do a good job on the splines and I can get a somewhat gradual neck down. Is there any reason I couldn't use a stock Ford long side shaft to cut down to my short side length? The stock Ford short side is actually shorter than my current short side axle.

what problems did you actually have as a result of the stock D30 knuckles with your old setup?

I didn't have a ton of problems. I broke a couple of joints and in the process ruined a few shafts. The pass side upper BJ is toast now too and it was a new Moog piece. Too much weight and leverage I'm sure.

I mainly hated having the weight of a 60 and the strength of a 30 - dumb.

[rstrucks]

Alright the 35 spline ARB is in and set up. Yes, the caps were in place when measuring back lash.

I started to notch/cut my bumper for my winch. I have decided to make it a dedicated mount after toying with the idea of having it removeable so I use it on the rear bumper or just leave it in the garage if I'm just crawlin' the mall. I want it to sit low in the bumper and not limit approach angle. More cutting will be needed along with some extra bracing to ensure that it's strong enough.

The mounts for the bumper are fairly strong but I don't think they are quite strong enough. The cross tube is .250 wall but the (mount)2x4 tube is only .120 wall tube. It is bolted in 4 spots on the side and 1 more from the top. I also made plates to sandwich the unibody and spread the load out that are attached with 9 bolts per side. I don't want to keep adding metal (and weight) just for the sake of "more is better" but I want it to be plenty strong. Thoughts?

[paulkeith]

Ryan,

The ARB brackets work pretty similarly to what you've got but also add a piece of angle to tie some of the mount tube bolts to the brackets on the front side of the stock crossmember.



If you did that and then maybe had a matching piece on the front side of the factory crossmember that then picked up either the mount tubes or the cross tube, it might help you get a little more of the load into the unibody and prevent any tweaking. Also maybe some gusseting between the mount tubes and the cross tubes to help out with side-loads when winching on an angle, you should be more than good to go I'd think.

Just thinkin out loud...

edit: then again, the ARB brackets do that just to pick up the "frame" rail because they don't have a true "mount tube" running down the frame rail like you've got:

[Pearce]

Are you planning to machine those Ford knuckles for high steer arms? Is there enough area and thickness on the top of the knuckle to machine it flat for an arm? It might just be the pic but it doesn't look like it would work that well.

[paulkeith]

want to excuse myself for being 'that guy' and repeatedly posting in this thread, but pearce, your question got me thinking...

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showt...+steering+arms

looks like its "easier" with the '05+ knuckle but doable on the '99-'04 still. depending on where you land with machining costs, there are off the shelf available superduty replacement hi-steer knuckles, but ....sticker shock...

http://www.offroadunlimited.com/orus...idproduct=8266

Currie also sells some parts at slightly less stratospherical prices:

http://www.currieenterprises.com/ces...t.aspx?id=2936

Branik also sells redrilled UHBs to get away from the stupid metric ford 8 lug bolt pattern as well, but they are pricey too.

speaking of which, ryan, what are you doing with bolt pattern?

[rstrucks]

Paul, you hit it on the head. I plan on having my knuckles machined similar to the Currie's. I have a call into EMS to get a price on some machine work. Tom there said they have done quite a few of them. I am probably going to have them supply the arms as well. If the price is too high I'll see if I can send them to Branik for the work.

For the bolt pattern I plan on sending my unit bearings with the knuckles to be turned down, redrilled and bored out. That way I can run 5 on 5.5 wheels and 35 spline outers. If its not cost effective I'll just buy new unit bearings that have already been machined and not risk running/spending coin on unknown junkyard parts

I'll let you guys know what it costs to get this stuff done. I'm hoping to do it for cheap - that's how I roll.

Paul - I'll add those gussets to the bumper crossbar too - good call.

[rstrucks]

After a year and a half my radius arm bushing is shot. I'll be replacing it with a new rubber bushing for now and I'll be thinking about a new front suspension design - one that doesn't bind so much. I read the TOTM on Pirate about 3 links and I'm thinking that is what I may do.



I also want to add about an 1"/1.5" of length to my front suspension to keep my tires out of the fenders and footwell area. I don't want to do too much now and then have to redo it when I redesign it. I'm thinking about cutting the control arm attachment point off the crossmember and rewelding it further forward. When I redo everything I'll weld on all the brackets and add some bracing.




Oh yeah, Northgazj - I'm not sure what I'm doing with my 35's. I'll either keep 'em and throw them on some different wheels for street duty and longer trips and get some really aggressive 37" tires for wheeling. Or I'll sell them and just get some 37 KM2's or similar tire. If I decide to sell them I'll post it in here.

[downtowncb]

Question, I don't know a thing about Currie axles, but do they come with dana 30 C's from the factory? If so ... why?

[IndyZJ]

Question, I don't know a thing about Currie axles, but do they come with dana 30 C's from the factory? If so ... why?

IIRC they sell 60s and 9" fronts with D30 outer stuff. I see no point in this other than cheaply retaining the factory bolt pattern with bolt-on parts. Basically it doesn't make sense, unless you have to buy custom inner shafts from Currie every time you grenade one.

[rstrucks]

Got some work done today;

I have wanted to push my front axle out a bit to gain some clearance for my soon to be 37" tires. As it was my 35" tires barely cleared the back of my wheelwells. I had thought about relocating my radius arm mounts on my crossmember a little forward to do this but I didn't want to move the pivot point of my control arms away from the driveshaft's pivot point. What I ended up doing was adding an 1 1/4" section of 2" .250 wall DOM sleeved with 1 1/2" DOM. I cut the arms just behind the threaded joint insert and added the section. All welded edges were heavily beveled and I left a 1/16" gap between the joints to let the weld penetrate down to the sleeve. On the frame joint end I drilled 3 holes right next to the threaded insert to plug weld to it, the sleeve and the arm. On the axle side I drilled 3 larger holes (about 3/8") staggered a couple of inches apart for some big, juicy rossete welds. These should be plenty strong.

[rstrucks]

While I had stuff torn down I thoght I might as well take the time to make the center section of my Rusty's crossmember removeable. As it was it was quite the PITA to take it off. I used 3/16" plate and (5) grade 8, 3/8" bolts to hold it together. I also welded the nuts to the back side of the plates to make removal a one tool affair.

[rstrucks]

To fix my T-case shifter linkage problem I got real cheap. The bronze bushing/bearing had seperated from the outer retainer ring and would pop out of the bracket that attaches to the body. Then I would have to crawl under my rig to shift into low range. I was going to buy the parts to fix it all or swap in a YJ t-case shifter but ended up just tack welding the outer retainer ring to the bracket itself. I reinstalled everything and also cut and rewelded one of the shift rods to alter the geometry of the linkage - hopefully removing stress on all the plastic bushings and bronze bearing. Time will tell. If it fails again I'll go with the YJ shifter which looks like it would swap in without too much drama.

[dp96zj]

Looks good man!

[Grandsrus]

Very nice!

Stage III Exocage????