New POS project vehicle!

[CurtP]

Apparently, I'm a glutton for punishment. I love having a project vehicle and when I get done with one, I start getting bored. Since the 5.9 is all but done, I decided on looking at getting an older car - something that might get decent fuel mileage and be fun to drive. What I really wanted, believe it or not, was an early 70's Honda CVCC. Since those are all but non-existent these days (they all have seemed to rusted away into obviation), I've been looking for something else, but I had no idea what. It had to be cheap, parts readily available and rear wheel drive. A vehicle that I dreamed about in the '80's when I was a teenager would be perfect. It became a reality a couple of days ago, and I didn't even plan it. I came home from work the other day and there she sat in the driveway. Tomorrow is the big day as to which way this project will head. This car has been sitting for 10 years and the starter is dead. I should be picking the starter up tomorrow from being rebuilt and I'm going to attempt to get it started. If she starts, or at least attempts to start, then the project will proceed. If nothing happens, then I'll have to weigh my options, which include a LS1 swap or just parting it out. Without further ado, here is my new piece of shit!





More pictures >HERE<

[napajeep]

The LS1 swap probably isn't a bad idea. Finding parts for those is getting kind of tough.

[Cue-Ball]

Is that a Miata in the background with the roof chopped off??

[OverkillZJ]

Wow, I think so, LMAO

[CurtP]

Is that a Miata in the background with the roof chopped off??

Well, with the windsheild and door vent windows chopped off and the convertable top frame removed. Parts car. I think it may have been rolled - there is not a straight body panel on that car. Great autocross cars and turbo kits for them are dirt cheap. If this project is a go, I'll be autocrossing the 951 too.

[midwestxj]

What is that guage that says "BAR"?

[Skyline]

What is that guage that says "BAR"?

That would be boost.

[ILikeMud]

I'm not a Porsche guy so.....I thought it was a 944 Turbo, I love those cars.

Hope the project works out for you.

[96_zjlarado]

I'm not a Porsche guy so.....I thought it was a 944 Turbo, I love those cars.

Hope the project works out for you.

it is a 944 turbo, but the 951's were a little different. they had a nice rolled bumper cover with fog lights in them versus the regular 944 with the stadium seating bumper that protrudes 6 ft from the front of the car. there were some other little details that my 951 freak friend told me about too, but i can't remember them. they look really nice with 968 mirrors and wing and some 993 turbo wheels.

if you decide to part it out, let me know cuz my buddy would love to have the fog lights and the driver side fender. his interior is a little scarce too. he pulled his from a junkyard and totally rebuilt it. put a link stand alone ems in it and we're in the process of building a new exhaust and tuning it.





Nice find! good luck with it.

[J B]

Yeah, I can't keep up with all the Porsche numerical designations either. The current 911 has all sorts of different designations depending on model....I guess kinda like XJ, ZJ, WJ, etc.

[CurtP]

951 is a Porsche internal number. The internal number of 944 meant normally aspirated. Most people know the 951 as the 944 Turbo; it's one and the same. 1986 was the first year for the Turbo 944; there was no official public 951 designation:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Porsche_944

There was also a 944 Turbo S which bumped up the HP a bit. The first year for the S was 1987. In 1989, the S designation was dropped as all 944 Turbos were actually a Turbo S (basically, the 951 was dropped). They even had an S2 model, which wasn't a Turbo at all - it was a 3.0L NA motor, but it still had the bodywork of the Turbo. Confusing, isn't it? The sad part, IMO, is that the model I want most was never imported to the US - the 944 Turbo Cabriolet (1991).

My three favorite Porsches are the 928GTS, 968CS (also not available in the US) and the 951. I suspect that the 928GTS and 944 appeal to me because I was a teenager in the '80's and there was a 1984 928S in Weird Science and a 1983 944 was in Sixteen Candles.

Today wasn't too productive. The starter needed a new Bendix and we did get it started. It just wouldn't run for more than 15 seconds. I pulled the fuel pickup from the gas tank, which oddly enough doesn't have the fuel pump in it, and it was completely covered in varnish from the car sitting for 10+ years. I'm going to have to get a new fuel pump, a new pickup, a new fuel filter, blow the lines out and drain all the old, stale fuel. But she did fire and she wanted to run!

Once I get her running well, I'm going to start looking at turbo upgrades. I don't want anything crazy, but I would like to see 250 - 275 to the wheels. I think the power they made with this little 4-banger 20 years ago is pretty impressive. But for this engine only having 4 cylinders, it sure is fucking long!

[Skyline]

I'd bet you can get to that target power level or very close to it on the stock turbo. Adjustable boost control, more efficient intake and exhaust, upgraded injectors and fuel delivery, and some sort of engine management, etiher piggyback or stand alone. Turbo cars form the mid 80's were stone age compared to what's being done today in the aftermarket.

[CurtP]

I have a couple of options that are easy - either go to the larger S turbo (big $$$ and near impossible to find a good one anymore), get a boost enhancement kit ($100) or one of the hybrid turbos like Kokeln offers. My first priority is to get it running well, then get the exterior looking decent. I need both front fenders and they're no longer being produced. The NA fenders don't fit the S and good used ones, when you can find them, are going for $500+ each. Initially, I'll go with the $100 enhancement kit. I already know that I'm going to have to replace bushings and shocks/struts. I'm already on the lookout for deals like the S M030 suspension upgrade.

[Skyline]

So if you can't get the front fenders, fix the one's you have. Clearly the RF is pretty bad, and a new replacement would be the most effiicient course, but it still looks fixable. Can't see anything too serious with the LF.

Clearly you're talking about not restoring this to stock, so what about fiberglass front fenders? There were a lot of these cars that were raced, so are there any sources for glass pieces?

[CurtP]

This was a very productive weekend. We tried to get her running on Friday and it would stumble with starting fluid being sprayed into the intake. Checked the fuel rail and there was no pressure. Not having a manual for it yet, I started ripping shit apart. When I pulled out the gas tank pickup assembly (which doesn't have the pump in it), it looked like dried tar. The fuel pump was seized up too, so I went to an import shop and picked up a rebuilt pump and filter for less than $100. I spent a lot of time cleaning up the pickup assembly and blowing out the fuel lines. All I can smell and taste right now is stale gas. When I got home from today's autocross event, I finished putting it back together. SHE FUCKING RUNS! And she runs pretty well considering she hasn't run for 10 years. The engine idles smoothly - no shaking or sputtering. Now that I know she can run, I'll order some parts tomorrow.

It does have a massive exhaust at the exhaust manifold on the #1 cylinder. I suspect that it's cracked. I'll have to get it repaired/replaced. The exhaust note coming out the back sounds awesome!


Skyline - what is your first name? I'd rather call you by name than keep referring to you as your screen-name. I haven't been able to find any fiberglass fenders in my brief search, but from what I understand, they're out there. I'll have to look into it some more and see how they're built - they may not be very good for the street. The driver's side fender can be fixed. The passenger side may be fixable too, but it would probably cost more in labor to fix it than it would be to source a new fender. I also found a bunch of dings in the passenger's door today too. I was going to paint it myself, but I'm starting to rethink that. I'm going to try to stop by the body shop this week and see if I can get a rough estimate.

[CurtP]

More progress on the Panty Dropper!

Parts are starting to come in. I finally got the in-tank pickup/filter screen and upper intercooler hose last night. I'm trying to get most of my parts from eBay to keep costs down. It helps having a sniping service that does the bidding for me at the last second - keeps me from getting into bidding wars.

I think I've sourced the front fenders. Two different guys have them and are asking $175/ea. Shipping may be the only issue. They want to send them via Greyhound, but I don't know if they'll get banged up in transit.

I did get it off the jackstands last night and went to take it for a quick spin when I found a new issue - she doesn't move. Either the clutch is toast or it's not releasing properly. I'm hoping for something easy, but I'm sure I'll have to tear into it and replace the clutch. The book is calling for 24 hours of labor to change it. I have to drop the exhaust, the intake and the transaxle to get the torque tube out of the way so I can get the bellhousing off and get to the clutch. Clutch kits are anywhere from $575 to over $1200, depending on brand and stage. It may sound expensive, but the clutch that's in my Formula was around $1k.

I've been tossing around the idea of a used clutch from eBay, but with that much labor involved, I'm not sure I want to risk it.

[J B]

Wow, 24 hours to replace a clutch? I guess with a divorced drivetrain, it's pretty labor intensive.

You mentioned an LS1 swap....I thought that was a pretty good idea, especially considering what it would cost to do stuff like this.

Of course, the divorced drivetrain makes that swap difficult unless you wanted to use C5 guts and keep a rear transaxle, and that wouldn't be cheap.

[Skyline]

Curt;

I just stumbled accross a race shop with what looked like 20 racing Porsches in the bays, 3/4's of which were 944 Turbos. This was on Division Street, in Haverstraw NY. I did not get the name of the shop, but you might try looking them up. I'll see if I can get contact information the next time I'm around there. I'd bet they have a lot of great sources for these cars.

I really don't know why you would consider droping in an LS1, especially since the stock motor runs. Seems to me it would screw up a pretty nice vehicle. If you combine today's turbo technology with a motor already designed for boost, you can get a pretty potent package from the drivetrain you've already got, without completely destroying the handling. The whole reason for the transaxle was to deliver near ideal weight distribution...why mess that up? I have driven a 944T on a racetrack (and the road) back when they were new, and can tell you it's pretty nice in stock form.

As far as the clutch, whatever the cost, used is not smart. But you might do better not using the stock clutch, especially if you want to up the HP. What about ACT clutches? Might even be cheaper than stock for a high performance clutch.

Another thought...have you joined PCA yet? Its a great souce for used parts and a wealth of information.

Steve

[ROKN ZJ]

What I really wanted, believe it or not, was an early 70's Honda CVCC. Since those are all but non-existent these days (they all have seemed to rusted away into obviation)...

I didn't know what a cvcc was so I googled it, and whats funny is that when I was up in Cali a couple weeks ago I came across this house in the middle of nowhere that had like 5-6 of those things in front. I joked to my wife that it was a weird car to collect, but I guess not

BTW Congrats on the Porsche, it should be really cool once you get it all cleaned back up.

because I was a teenager in the '80's and there was a 1984 928S in Weird Science and a 1983 944 was in Sixteen Candles.

It's funny you mention this, because that same nostalgia makes me yearn to this day for a Ferrari 328 GTS. Every once in a while I look around eBay for a "cheap" project car...

[J B]

I know a guy that bought a mid 80s Lotus Esprit Turbo about a year ago. Got the car 95% restored and a ton of parts and tools for $10k I think. It was a steal. The car was in really good shape. He flew to wherever this guy was, and rented a U-haul and a trailer, and put the tools and crap in the truck, the Lotus on the trailer, and drove it back.

Must have been some sight to see a shitbox U-haul rental truck with a Lotus on a trailer behind it!

[CurtP]

Hey Steve - http://www.renegadehybrids.com
Doing the swap changes the F/R ratio only about 1%. Considering that a stock LS1 is putting out over 300HP and with only heads, cam and tuning can be over 400HP, it seems like a logical swap. And with a rear-mounted Turbo, I could turn those numbers up even higher and make retarded HP much cheaper and more reliably than I could with the stock motor. Not to mention no more timing belt to worry about and it would still get decent fuel mileage - it just seemed logical to me. However, with all the ancillaries needed for the conversion, I'm looking at $7500+ which doesn't include the price of the motor.

However, that's getting away from the scope of the project. I already have a car that put down big HP/torque numbers and it's no longer fun to drive. In fact, I'm seriously considering selling the Firebird - it just sits in the garage holding down the floor.

This is going to be a "budget" project, which only means that I'm not going to be blowing money left and right on it. I want to use it as my daily driver, so it needs to be reliable and comfortable. I want to use it on the weekends autocrossing, so it needs to handle. It will get a suspension upgrade, but it will still be a stock suspension - either the M474 or M030.

I also found that the $100 "boost enhancement kit" is a MBC - I would have been pissed off if I had spent $100 for it! Instead I went with a Stage II Autothority chipset that includes the 1.0-bar banjo bolt for $100. The chipset seems to be a popular first mod that many people quickly outgrow. I may build myself a hardware MBC to go along with this if the 1.0-bar banjo bolt doesn't cut it. If I happen along a Turbo S turbo for a good deal, I'll snatch one of those up as well.

I'm open to all clutch manufacturers. I've been looking at Sachs and Clutchnet, but Clutchnet doesn't have a pressure plate available - at least they don't have one listed on their site. I may go with a slightly more aggressive clutch, but it will still have a spring-hub.

If you find out the name of the shop, let me know! I'm constantly looking for resources. So far I've joined 944online, Pelican, RennTech and Clark's Garage.

Oh, the FSM arrived last night. SIX volumes! At least now I know how to tear shit apart (and put it back together!).

[96_zjlarado]

if you decide to go stand alone. my buddy might want to sell his link ems. he's tossing around the idea of goin with a tech 3 R system for his.

[CurtP]

I didn't know what a cvcc was so I googled it, and whats funny is that when I was up in Cali a couple weeks ago I came across this house in the middle of nowhere that had like 5-6 of those things in front. I joked to my wife that it was a weird car to collect, but I guess not

I was looking for something different. Everybody and their brother has a Civic, Corvette, Camaro/Firebird, etc. I wanted something that you don't see everyday, and how often do you see a CVCC - the predecessor to the Civic and where it got the name. I bet it would take an VTEC engine swap nicely. Problem is that you can't find them and on the rare occasion that you do, they're either completely rusted out or the people selling it think it's still worth $10k. Then I was looking for a Opel GT (the "mini Corvette"). Can't find those around worth a shit and getting parts is difficult. So then I thought about a mid-sixties Mini, but the prices on them have went out the roof since the new MINI has come out along with the movie Italian Job. I had actually just given up on finding a project vehicle. The 951 was literally sitting in the driveway when I came home from work one night. The roommate bought it to part out. I told him I was interested in it and we've been working on it every since. It's a neat car - definitely very interesting how they put it together. I've looked around too - there's not 1 being listed within 100 miles of here and only 2 944s. I never see them at the autocross, much less on the street. Getting parts isn't bad. Many of the parts are dirt cheap, others are stupid expensive. Right now it appears that the hardest part to get is the front fenders since they're no longer being made by the OEM and I have not found any aftermarket fenders.

if you decide to go stand alone. my buddy might want to sell his link ems. he's tossing around the idea of goin with a tech 3 R system for his.

I'll have to look into what's available for the AEM. I was thinking that if I went stand-alone, I'd go with a Megasquirt (or Microsquirt) Series II. We went with the MS Series I on the Miata and it works very well. On another project vehicle, we're going to be using an AEM setup.

I won't touch Electromotive ever again. I used the SDI setup on my Firebird and it was the biggest POS I'd ever laid my hands on and I haven't been impressed with anything from them since. One of their main Engineers left and started his own company - Delteq. I've been running the Delteq on my Firebird and it fixed all my problems. It's not a stand-alone, but it will work with a stand-alone if I ever wanted to go in that direction. Since the stock computer is limited to 7k RPM, and my 396 can only spin up to that, what I have works well. I'm using TunerCat for my tuning, so to me it's as close as it gets to being a stand-alone. The biggest downside is that it takes 5 minutes to upload/download the ECU and it can't be done on the fly.

[ROKN ZJ]

FYI,
I don't know if you're on Pirate4x4 but there's a guy on there (TexasBlake) who just bought one as well.

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=670943

I was looking for something different. Everybody and their brother has a Civic, Corvette, Camaro/Firebird...

Yea I think about the same things. I've wanted a cool project for a while now, but all the cars I really like (70s Firebirds, 67 continentals) are too 'en vogue' right now. I thought about building a rat rod-esque car out of a Willy's truck once when a local Jeep shop was giving away two as parts vehicles. Then I considered trying to clean up and pimp out an old Volvo 244 that a guy I know was giving away, but alas I never pull the trigger.

[CurtP]

What a shitty day. This car may be too far gone and it might be parted out after all. We just keep finding more and more wrong with it and it's to the point where it will probably be cheaper to just buy one in good condition. I'm finding them in good condition between $5k-$10k.

I'll know more tonight when I get home. It doesn't look good right now. I'm bummed. Somebody make me feel better by buying my 5.9...