93 ZJ Robot

[SuicideTireZJ]

Actually it was ILikeMud, then IHateMud, then Yota Tony, and now he's back.

[ILikeMud]

I was never IHateMud. I do hate it though.

[jfowlzj95]

You were once KRIKEY! MUD! though, thought that one was hilarious.

[ILikeMud]

Yes, I was.

Funny.....I'm still not sure on that.

[SirFuego]

Now that talk about Tony's apparent distaste for mud has subsided...

I came home after a local club M&G and found a big Amsoil box on my doorstep with my air filters. Now I'm still waiting for my intake as Turbo City said it'd be another week until it ships because they need to "get it from the foundry". It'd be nice if my order status was something more than "processing" so I didn't need to call them to see what was up.

So here is the current plan for the buildup (in addition to the bumpers):

Clayton's Long Arms
- 4.5"
- I might go with the Anti-Rock in the front instead of the disconnects
- Flat belly skid

HP30 with 4.10s
- Reusing shafts, brakes, and Crane diff cover
- Lunchbox locker (Aussie if I go with a new one)
- Custom steering

8.8 with 4.10s and disc brakes
- Clayton's hi-clearance brackets
- Whatever that u joint you use to mate to the stock driveshaft for an 8.8
- Crane diff cover
- Aussie locker

Unknowns
- Can my engine skid be modified to work with the long arm kit? It bolts to the LCA mounts, which get cut off for the long arms.
- How I'm going to brace the rocker panels to the unibody. Since Clayton's sits below the sub-frame rail. I'm thinking I might be able to get some sort of boat sides if I run the supports directly to Clayton's stiffeners instead of the subframe rails. I'll have to see how much of an angle I have to work with before I decide on this.

I'll be running my 31s with this setup until I muster up the cash for a new set of 35s or I find a good used set.

Longer term plans (if I get to this point, I'll be comitted to using my ZJ for a while since I can't just unbolt them and move it to another rig):
- Full roll cage -- the unibody supports for the rockers will be mounting points for the A and B pillars of the cage, so we'll be taking this into account when running the supports.
- A large amount of front fender trimming similar to ATL_ZJ's

[ILikeMud]

Sweet!!

[2jeepsforus]

Go 4.56's homie... 35's with 4.10's will be the same will be the same as me with 3.73's now and 33's.

I have to run 80 in OD to get it around the 2200 RPM mark no lie.

[SirFuego]

The 8.8 I'm getting will already have 4.10s in it. Just figured I'd save some money by just regearing the front instead of both. Plus hopefully with 4.10s I won't be breaking the HP30 as often as I'm thinking I would with deeper gearing...

To me building a 44 isn't worth my time or money if I'm going to go with 60s in the future when the budget allows.

[gonecheenin]

The 8.8 I'm getting will already have 4.10s in it. Just figured I'd save some money by just regearing the front instead of both. Plus hopefully with 4.10s I won't be breaking the HP30 as often as I'm thinking I would with deeper gearing...

You'll move the stress's to the driveshafts, pinion gear, t-case, & tranny though
sure it might work fine, and you should be able to find used 4.10's for the front
But make sure you install a big tranny cooler & carry spare joints

AT 4.56's & 33's I pleased with how my ZJ performs, but I sure wouldn't want to go any higher (but in a D30 I'd be worried about going any lower either)

To me building a 44 isn't worth my time or money if I'm going to go with 60s in the future when the budget allows.

I know those on here have strong feelings about going D44 when you could jump to a 60, and I'll probably get flack for saying this.
But if your already running a D30 with a fair amount of success, going to a D44 is about perfect for you unless your looking to go monster Zuggy with 38's or bigger IMHO
A un-needed D60 is just extra dead weight hindering your capability, sure you'll gain a pile of reliability but would that alone be worth the trouble?

If my current HPD30/SD35 combo gives me any major axle trouble I'll be installing an Alloy inner shafted front HP44 & an equivilant rear D44/8.8/etc...


But then again I plan to never go bigger then 33/35's, never hack the body up beyond streetable, and don't care if I break something every once & a blue moon (but that happens no matter what you run)

[SirFuego]

I appreciate the input, Jay. You have the 4.0 in your ZJ right?

When installing my radiator, I stripped the threads to the built-in tranny cooler internal to the rad. So in series with the original V8 tranny cooler, I put in a bigger tranny cooler in. So my tranny is keeping cool -- although it is pretty high mileage, so we'll see how that works out.

I tell myself that I won't go higher than 35s, but now it seems that 37s are the new "35s", so who knows what'll happen. Going from 31s to 35s is a pretty big jump so I know that I don't want to go past 35s for the next step. Maybe I will scare myself down to 33s when it comes time to buy the tires. We'll see.

I know a few others with the HP30/8.8 or HP30/44 combo and 35s with 4.88s, and it has held up fine to the abuse (yes, they do wheel pretty hard). I'm definitely not saying that it's an "ideal" setup, but I won't have much invested in the HP30 and much of what I do to it could easily be sold to fund a new axle if it becomes a problem.

[gonecheenin]

I appreciate the input, Jay. You have the 4.0 in your ZJ right?

Yup, 150-ish,000 mile 4.0HO

I tell myself that I won't go higher than 35s, but now it seems that 37s are the new "35s", so who knows what'll happen. Going from 31s to 35s is a pretty big jump so I know that I don't want to go past 35s for the next step. Maybe I will scare myself down to 33s when it comes time to buy the tires. We'll see.

I know a few others with the HP30/8.8 or HP30/44 combo and 35s with 4.88s, and it has held up fine to the abuse (yes, they do wheel pretty hard). I'm definitely not saying that it's an "ideal" setup, but I won't have much invested in the HP30 and much of what I do to it could easily be sold to fund a new axle if it becomes a problem.

Your situation is a little different then mine too

I built the ZJ specifically as a mild 33" tire wheeler because I already had plans of a YJ based 38" tire hardcore rig

Your ZJ being your primary all around wheeler obviously makes for different criteria

But as anyone on this site will tell you, going to big on a ZJ makes for exponential work & problems that will kill your unibody rig if not done correctly.

As much as I dig my ZJ (specially in the stage its in now), thats why I'm building a hardcore rig outta a YJ

[gonecheenin]

Time for more laughter...

Here are the rockers.

Pre-powerwashing:


Still gotta trim a bit more...


And showing off some of the ugliest welds you will ever see. I was using flux core. I was trying to stitch weld to not burn through the sheetmetal. Still gotta work on getting a consistent bead size (amongst other things...). Burn through was in rusty areas. I was really close to cutting everything out, but there seem to be some good beads and penetration in there, so we'll see how it works out.



Now onto the passenger side. Mud was packed in there really good:


After sweeping up what seemed like 20 pounds of mud, it was time to take the ZJ for a power washing:


Not really sure what I'm going to do about the gap between the doors and rockers. I might just leave it there since any mud that collects in there can easily be cleaned.

OK SF, so if you were to drop a plumb bob down from the outer most side of your doors, how far would your sliders stick out?

I'm considering doing a faux boatside slider/rock rail dealio with 2x_ 3/16 rectangular tube (want it to stick out 1" past the plumb bob in the above scenerio, so I'm thinking 2x7?), 3/16 90deg angle steel, 1/8" flat plate, and .120 wall 1.5" DOM


My thoughts are to place the 90deg angle steel in up against the inside of the "rocker" & the top, weld the 2x_ tubing up against the bottom of the upper portion of said angle iron horizontally, and lay the 1/8" plate at a 45 between the outside of the upper tube (1" from the end) & the lower portion of the angle iron with a 90 degree internal 1/8" center rib that will lay into the upper inner V to brace for heavy impacts that would try to "pull" the assembly together
All this after installing weld nuts on the inside of the slider assembly for easy installation straight through the original rocker inner panel

The trimmed rocker sheet metal would simply get tacked along the top of this assembly (which will clean up the look while making it easy to smooth out later for installation on another heep)

Then fabicate full lenth under vehicle rocker panel bolt in plates (for easy removal/installation) that tie the slider assembly into the unibody rails with full vehicle width DOM connecting both sliders together while also attaching to the unibody rails as well as bracing those rails against "frame" hits with additional full length flat 1/8" plating

Additional 1/8 to 3/16 would be tied in where needed as powertrain skidplating (I figure 1/8" flat up against the unibody rails would be plenty for rock gaurding while the 3/16 could be used in places that there is no additional reinforcement like under the oil pans & t-case)

Th center DOM would run right up against (or replace) the tranny crossmember, the two other pc's of DOM would run past the lower control arm brackets (doing it this way should keep me from ever having an issue with hanging up on these full length connectors) which I would tie all together with "ear" plates for what I'm figuring would be a hella increase in structural rigidity of the chassis AND control arm bracketry plus unibody protection without gaining all that much extra weight over your standard retail slider/skidplating setups


What do you think SF?

[SirFuego]

I never did the plumb bob thing, but my rockers are pretty close to flush with the bottom of the doors. I used 5x2 (yeah, apparently it's called 5x2 and not 2x5...). Not sure off hand how much the doors bow out (3-4" I would guess?)

I'm not entirely sure I follow completely what you are suggesting, though since I think I'm having a tough time visualizing it.

The angle iron portion is sort of confusing me. Are you suggesting something like AlaskaZJ did? Are you thinking of notching around the A and B pillars? Or will you tie them into the tubing like I did?

If I understand the DOM idea correctly, you are thinking of essentially using the dom tubing as "crossmembers" that bolt into the "frame" rails underneath and also tie both rockers together? Then you run sheetmetal between the "crossmembers" for boat sides and flat skids underneath?

Again, sorry if I totally misunderstood you, but I think I may have misinterpreted what you typed.

[gonecheenin]

1/8" steel (.125") is ALOT heavier then sheet metal

It is what my front & rear bumper skids are made of, & under tension it seams to hold up great to even hard hits

I was talking about cutting back the A&B pillars then "lining" the cut out rocker with the angle, then adding the horizontal rectangular tubing, hoping that would tie everything together better and allow for more strength at the tie in's underneath
That make more sense?

then yeah, running a vehicle width slider "crossmember" or two from one to the other to aid in all the upward force being distibuted better then it would be if each were attached seperately to the unibody rails

wasn't planning on making skids for the entire underneath, just light duty 1/8 to help the bottom of the "frame" rails & 3/16 for the major components

[SirFuego]

Yeah, sorry. I didn't mean sheetmetal.

The rocker cutout portion makes more sense.

I honestly like the crossmember idea a lot. I take it that each "crossmember" will actually be three parts (two parts to each rocker and one between the subframe) tied together -- so that you can easily unbolt the portion between the subframe to work on stuff underneath? Since you are sticking to short arms and plan on reinforcing your control arm mounts, that should fit your ZJ pretty well. The only "permanent" part is the rocker cutouts, but those should be easy to cut out for another ZJ.

The only disadvantage I see to that is that you are sacrificing a few inches of ground clearance (probably no more than if you would throw clayton's on it, though), but that tradeoff is probably well worth it by most likely stiffening up the unibody and protect the underneath.

That said, as I'm sure you can tell by my phenomenal welds and my questions to you and Jeff on PGH, I'm far from a fabricator and unibody expert, but I'm definitely intrigued by the idea.

[gonecheenin]

I honestly like the crossmember idea a lot. I take it that each "crossmember" will actually be three parts (two parts to each rocker and one between the subframe) tied together -- so that you can easily unbolt the portion between the subframe to work on stuff underneath?

Yep, not sure how'll achieve that & retain strength yet, but I'll figure something out

The only "permanent" part is the rocker cutouts, but those should be easy to cut out for another ZJ.

Not even that will be permanent except for the tack welds holding the upper sheetmetal to the sliders (unless your refering to the cut sheetmetal on the vehicle itself which isn't a concern for me)

The only disadvantage I see to that is that you are sacrificing a few inches of ground clearance (probably no more than if you would throw clayton's on it, though),

I don't think I'll be sacrificing much if any more ground clearance since I plan to hug the tranny crossmember thats already hanging that low and the end crossmembers will be real close to the tires (if that will even work by the tires, further investigation under my ZJ makes me thing that the center connector may be the only one to work out real well, but even that should help alot and using short individual tie in's should still be strong at the ends by the control arm bracketry since there is so much more metal there)

[SirFuego]

Dropped the ZJ off yesterday to the local shop and it will be getting custom bumpers soon! Rear bumper will be very simple and mount using the stock bumper/hitch locations.

The front bumper will replace the front crossmember. Goal for the front bumper is to maximize approach angle, protect the bottom of the rad (probably will tie into a custom rad support so I can sell my Kevins rad support later), keep the winch as low as possible (but not so low as to kill approach angle) and as close to the rad as possible.

EDIT: Yeah, uhh, so I already said this same thing earlier in the thread in regards to the design. But anyways...

[SirFuego]

I decided to get Eric to angle the rear bumper a bit. The bottom of the bumper is flush with the lip and the angle is close to the angle of the bottom of the tailgate. Ends of the bumper still need to be finished. Tow points need to be added as well.


In addition to bolting into the subframe rail, it also mounts "XJ style" with some angle iron. Nut plates are on the other side. This should help to distribute the load pretty well. Here is a crappy pic:


Need to replace the gas tank straps since the one was rusted through.

And here is what the front now looks like...

[SirFuego]

Just a small update...

Front bumper mount will sleeve the "frame" with 5x2 tubing. Everything will be built off of that. We needed to get 1/16" milled off of the 2" sides of the 5x2 to get it to fit inside of the frame rails.

Purchased a some stuff:
1) RE 4.5" Front and Rear Springs
2) Dana 30 Aussie
3) Ford 8.8 Aussie (was on backorder the friday I ordered it, yet it still shipped that next Monday -- so I'm not complaining)
4) Crane 8.8 diff cover came in today. It's a nice bright green.

Clayton's long arms, Clayton's 8.8 brackets, and Advance Adapters SYE will be coming next paycheck -- my bonus wasn't deposited this week like it was supposed to be

Not sure just yet about what shocks to get. I'm thinking of the 11" travel BBCS shocks, but we gotta measure once the long arms go in to see if they will actually fit. I've heard really good things about these shocks since they are valved for rockcrawling. Anyone have experience with these?

Also, those with the 8.8 and Clayton's. I know one of the downfalls of the 8.8 is that the tubes can rotate since they are just pressed into the diff housing. Will the Clayton's truss be strong enough to prevent this from happening, or would you suggest the tubes be welded in?

[SirFuego]

Bonus came today!

Order will be placed on Monday for:
Clayton's kit minus the springs
Clayton's 8.8 brackets
AA SYE

Goal is to have it ready for GSE!

[DJJordache]

Also, those with the 8.8 and Clayton's. I know one of the downfalls of the 8.8 is that the tubes can rotate since they are just pressed into the diff housing. Will the Clayton's truss be strong enough to prevent this from happening, or would you suggest the tubes be welded in?

I would go ahead and weld them. It doesnt have to be all the way around it. I have mine welded on all 4 sides with 2" welds. just MAKE sure that if you weld one side to do the opposite side right after it so the tubes don't get tweaked as the welds cool.

[SirFuego]

Obviously needs more work done, but here are some spy pics of the front bumper:



As a reference, the robot lights are pretty close to flush with front of the hood. Kevin's rad support is being modified to be at the same angle as the front of the bumper.

[ILikeMud]

Cool, still not sure how I feel about those lights.

[SirFuego]

No pics yet, but figured I'd drop an update.

Front and rear bumpers are done, and the winch is mounted. I'm very happy with how they turned out. Jeep is sitting on long arms right now with the 8.8 and HP30 locked with Aussies and 4.10s. Both have the housings welded to the tubes and the HP30 has a small truss. Steering will be done shortly and it should be streetable very soon.

Still needs shocks of the correct length and a rear driveshaft. Arm lengths also need to be adjusted. It seems to be getting close, but there are a lot of "little" things to do.

I also ordered Trxus MTs in the 33" flavor -- I scared myself out of going with 35s. They are being drop-shipped from Interco so I hope they are in stock so they come in time for Big Dogs...

[SirFuego]

So I got to drive the robot last night!

Wow! What a difference! Even with the triangulated rear shocks the ZJ is smooth as butter. Steering is very tight and everything feels very stable. My buddy has done a phenomenal job with this rig! He's giving it a final checkover and it should be ready soon to beat on!!

Now the question is -- will it fit in my garage without needing to remove the roof rails?

Some specs:
- HP30, 4.10s, Aussie, Mini-truss, Welded tubes
- 8.8, 4.10s, Aussie, Clayton's truss, Welded tubes, Clayton's high clearance brackets.
- 4.5" RE Springs
- JKS discos.
- AA SYE, Tom Woods driveshaft
- 33x12.5 Trxus MTs
- Inverted T steering, 1.5" dia 0.5" wall tie rods, 1 ton ends, flipped tie rod
- Rancho RSX's up front (with daystar bumpstops as inexpensive insurance) -- those things are pretty cheap though.
- BBCS 11" Shocks in the rear
- 5" front bumpstops (hockey pucks)
- 16" procomp limit straps on all 4 corners