Thread: won't start after tranny replacement

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  1. #1 won't start after tranny replacement 
    Senior Member cooperzj's Avatar
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    Okay, I put in a rebuilt tranny and 231. Now the ZJ won't start. Turns over, but no spark, I have fuel.

    I'm thinking crankshaft position sensor. I think I might have damaged it during the install, but not sure. I wanted to get some other thoughts before I started tearing into it again.

    Could it be anything else? The engine was running perfect before the tranny swap.
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  2. #2 Re: won't start after tranny replacement 
    Senior Member Grand Slam West Planner
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    If you think you damaged the crank sensor, I would at least start there by inspecting it. Otherwise, I seem to remember somebody saying that if the torque converter is clocked wrong, you can fuck shit up. Sorry for the hearsay, but at least I contributed something helpful to the thread
    Jim Karlin
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    96 ZJ, 4" inch lift (Claytons, Teraflex coils), 33" Kumho MT KL71s, Aussie in the rear
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  3. #3 Re: won't start after tranny replacement 
    Senior Member cooperzj's Avatar
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    It's pretty much impossible to clock the converter wrong. There are 4 bolt holes and they are offset to prevent people from putting it on wrong. It will only go on one way- believe me, I had to try the other 3 ways before I found the "right way" to put it on.

    So... I'm still thinking Crank position sensor. Thanks for the input. Man, I hope that's it.
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  4. #4 Re: won't start after tranny replacement 
    Senior Member cooperzj's Avatar
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    I checked the CPS and tested the terminals as described in the manual. The sensor checks out fine. All wires were connected. (side note to the engineers- terrible place to put a sensor.)

    Still no spark. Plenty of fuel (I checked by depressing the valve on the fuel rail).

    So, whats next? Ignition coil? Is there a way to check that without just replacing it?
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  5. #5 Re: won't start after tranny replacement 
    Senior Member Grand Slam West Planner
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    You could check the coil with a multimeter - see if there's spark going from the distributor to the coil.

    If you don't have a meter, pull the coil wire and stick your finger in it
    Jim Karlin
    Project Big Red Jeep
    96 ZJ, 4" inch lift (Claytons, Teraflex coils), 33" Kumho MT KL71s, Aussie in the rear
    A bunch of KOR stuff
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  6. #6 Re: won't start after tranny replacement 
    Senior Member cooperzj's Avatar
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    Took off the coil as suggested in the manual.

    My volt-ohm meter is pretty gehtto but, it's not reading even close to what the range is supposed to be. The primary terminal to secondary terminal is infinite and the two secondary terminals are about 5.5 ohms. I had another coil known to be bad and it had the exact same readings. I'm probably gonna head down to advance tomorrow and check the new one and see if I get the same readings on my $15 volt ohm meter. (Note to Chrysler engineers- Why in the world would you put a phillips head screw on a bolt to hold the ignition coil? Do you know how difficult it is to wrangle a screwdriver down there?)

    Hopefully I've ID'd my problem.
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  7. #7 Re: won't start after tranny replacement 
    Senior Member cooperzj's Avatar
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    Replaced coil- still no spark.

    I've tested and replaced ignition main coil wire. -no spark.

    I've tested continuity between the secondary connector and the battery- have continuity.

    I've tested continuity between the two terminals on the connector- there is resistance- Can someone please check there's to see if there is supposed to be?

    Guys, I still have no spark. The battery is still fresh. turns the engine over just fine. I believe I have fuel. But FOR SURE there is no spark. WTF? The FSM just says to check for spark and if no spark to check the cable. I did- but still have no spark. Help.
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  8. #8 Re: won't start after tranny replacement 
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    I'm leaning towards the Crank Sensor.

    Rick
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  9. #9 Re: won't start after tranny replacement 
    Senior Member cooperzj's Avatar
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    Okay, I've re-read the manual again. It says:

    Place an ohmmeter across terminals B and C
    (Fig. 5). Ohmmeter should be set to 1K-to-10K scale
    for this test. The meter reading should be open (no
    resistance)

    But Haynes says infinite resistance.

    WTF does the the parentheses mean by no resistance? is that a fubar? The pic in Haynes shows the reading to be 1. that's full resistance or infinite. I think the service manual messed up. But mine is probably busted.

    Damn it. This is going to be a PITA to remove. How much will a shop charge?

    Is there a trick to get this out? I had to remove the evap can and the coolant resevior just to put two fingers on it. I can't see getting those bolts out easily.

    What about dropping the tranny a little or removing the motor mounts on the passenger side?

    Any advice would be great-
    Last edited by cooperzj; 05-27-2008 at 08:57 PM.
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  10. #10 Re: won't start after tranny replacement 
    Senior Member cooperzj's Avatar
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    SERIOUSLY

    Now it's reading like it's not broken. I get infinite resistance! THe first time there was an outside chance that the sensor was on the part of the crank where there was SUPPOSED to be continuity.

    But, for sure it is reading correctly now. my meter doesn't move a bit.

    It does on terminals A and B, but those aren't the ones I'm supposed to be testing.

    Does anyone know what size allen wrench those bolts are holding the sensor in?
    Last edited by cooperzj; 05-27-2008 at 09:31 PM.
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  11. #11 Re: won't start after tranny replacement 
    Senior Member cooperzj's Avatar
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    Any thoughts on the PCM? That's the one with 60 plug connector.
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  12. #12 Re: won't start after tranny replacement 
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    On my 96 XJ with the 4.0l, mine actted up before a wheelin trip. It wouldnt start once...then it fire on the second one. the next day wheelin, it just died, let it sit 30mins, then it would restart, might make it 5 feet and die or a mile an die. So I tested it, It was actting the same way as yours. One time it tested good, the next it tested bad. If this jeep ran before your trans job, you could have pinched the wires between the block and the trans housing or you might have cracked the sensor when installing. But thats where my money is, the crank sensor.

    Rick
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  13. #13 Re: won't start after tranny replacement 
    Senior Member cooperzj's Avatar
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    Maybe the Automatic Shut Down (ASD) relay? I'm checking now. Does the ZJ have one of those reset buttons like some vehicles do? I know my 87 bronco had one that I had to push from time to time to get it to start- (I think that was just for fuel though).

    My cover is missing. Can someone tell me which relay it is? Thanks
    Last edited by cooperzj; 05-27-2008 at 10:08 PM.
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  14. #14 Re: won't start after tranny replacement 
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    You should try using a scanner so see if there are any codes. Is the check engine light on? Another thing to check for is pinched wires between the engine and transmission, or anywhere around where you touched. Most likely it has something to do with what you did, rather than an unrelated problem that came up while it was being worked on.
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  15. #15 Re: won't start after tranny replacement 
    Senior Member DJJordache's Avatar
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    I'd guess CPS also. I just replaced mine on my 4.0L. I even tested them both out and they both tested good.... but the old one was dead. the second I swapped in the new(er) one it fired right up!
    It only took me 10 minutes to swap out the CPS, I don't know what other people are whining about, unless the 5.2 one is harder to do.
    93' ZJ 4.7L STROKER, Clayton LONGARMS, 4wd conversion, 231 SYE, HPD30, 8.8, BFG 35's, 2000 manifold & injectors, Hesco fpr, Port & polish, LS1 valves, WJ Steering/brakes, KOR SliderZ & steering box brace, Clayton TB bracket and my custom trackbar, Crane ignition, B&M cooler, Tom Woods, etc....
    Quote Originally Posted by Krash80 View Post
    We're all insane here...
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  16. #16 Re: won't start after tranny replacement 
    Member nateman54's Avatar
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    When I replaced my trans. my zj would start, then die. It turned out that CPS had metal shaving stuck to it. Runs fine now.
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  17. #17 Re: won't start after tranny replacement 
    Senior Member cooperzj's Avatar
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    I'll work on pulling it tonight. Any tips?

    So far, I think its easiest to get to if I pull the coolant resevoir, and the PCM. I can (not easily) get an allen wrench on the bolts- just had to do it my feel cause you can't see em'. They're just on there really tight.

    What size allen wrench? I think I've got the right size but I can't seem to bust it loose- except for when it slips.

    I put some WD-40 on it and I'll let it sit overnight. hopefully that helps.
    Last edited by cooperzj; 05-28-2008 at 09:03 PM.
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    93' 5.2L, 35" Cooper Discovers, Custom Bumpers, CB, SOA rear, 8.8, 4.5" front springs, Warn M8000, 231, some other junk.
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  18. #18 Re: won't start after tranny replacement 
    Senior Member Grand Slam West Planner
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    Fuck WD-40 - use PB Blaster or another penetrating oil. All WD does is displace water and lubricate for a little while.
    Jim Karlin
    Project Big Red Jeep
    96 ZJ, 4" inch lift (Claytons, Teraflex coils), 33" Kumho MT KL71s, Aussie in the rear
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  19. #19 Re: won't start after tranny replacement 
    Senior Member cooperzj's Avatar
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    I finally got that Crank Pos Sensor out- it's not really that hard if you have the right tools and move the right stuff out of the way.

    An extra long Allen wrench (5" minimum unless you have really small hands) is the tool to have- with a screwdriver socket drive to leverage it. I also used a mirror and a flashlight. Removing the coolant tank and the PCM along with the exhaust heat shield and all the spark plug wires and raising the lower EGR tube is all you need to do to get to it. Also, the bolt is in a prime position to get filled with dirt and grime. If the Allen head slips alot, the hole is probably filled with dirt. Get a nail or something and scrape all that crap out. I had to and after I did, it came out really easily.

    The wire was slightly cut and the body looked slightly cracked. I'm 100% certain this is the problem now. No wonder it read infinite resistance- it WAS an open loop.

    Anyhow- Advance Auto is ordering a BWD replacement for me and it will be in tomorrow. $41

    Thanks for the help guys. I hope this is it.
    Last edited by cooperzj; 05-29-2008 at 08:59 PM.
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  20. #20 Re: won't start after tranny replacement 
    Senior Member cooperzj's Avatar
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    WTF!!!!???

    I replaced it. Still no spark.

    I'm still getting the 11 code. That's the no crank reference signal detected during engine cranking. Intermittent loss of either camshaft or crankshaft position sensor. CKP sensor target windows have too much variation.

    What gives?? Any help here is appreciated. I really want to get this running soon.
    Last edited by cooperzj; 05-30-2008 at 04:42 PM. Reason: code description
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  21. #21 Re: won't start after tranny replacement 
    Senior Member cooperzj's Avatar
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    AH HA! I might have found another possible problem.

    I did take the doors off last week. I read on another forum that there is a theft deterrent system that is tied into the wiring harness on the doors. IF this is true, what is the work around? Has anyone else had this problem after they took off their doors??? I'll search on this now, but wanted to ask.
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  22. #22 Re: won't start after tranny replacement 
    Senior Member cooperzj's Avatar
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    I reconnected the wiring harness on the doors and disconnected the battery (and reconnected it). I unlocked and locked all the doors- for some reason the power windows/door locks aren't working? Anyhow- I don't have the remote (never did) but the car came with Remote Keyless Entry (per the build sheet). Do the doors actually have to be on the hinges for it to work? Neither the passenger side nor the driver's side power works- though the speakers do.

    Still not starting- and now my dome light won't go off (even with the doors and connectors off)- previously, the dome and the foot lamps would never come on???

    I think I'm on the right track with this door thing. I need some help though. Come on guys. I know lots of you have taken the doors off. Some (I searched) had problems with the engine not starting- what's the fix?
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  23. #23 Re: won't start after tranny replacement 
    Senior Member ATL ZJ's Avatar
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    IF the doors are in fact the problem, you can disable the factory alarm by grounding the purple wire with the yellow tracer that is found in the passenger side kickpanel. But normally when the alarm is the culprit, the vehicle will start, and it'll let motor run for a second or two before shutting down.

    Everything is kosher with your NSS right?
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  24. #24 Re: won't start after tranny replacement 
    Senior Member cooperzj's Avatar
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    Problem solved.

    The CPS was incorrectly installed. I pulled it and put it in again. Cranked right up.

    Thanks for all the help.
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    93' 5.2L, 35" Cooper Discovers, Custom Bumpers, CB, SOA rear, 8.8, 4.5" front springs, Warn M8000, 231, some other junk.
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