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View Full Version : NEW FORUM RULES ON THE WAY



BigDaveZJ
10-11-2006, 11:37 AM
Just an FYI that Matt and I will be working on some new rules to help keep the focus of this board as it was originally intended. Due to lackluster management on some of the other boards, MallCrawlin is becoming even more popular than Matt or I EVER dreamed of. One of the new rules we're working on is a minimum post requirement to be able to post in the advanced tech forums. That should make our jobs easier by confining all of this newbtastic bullshit to the newbie forum where it belongs, and make it so those of us who don't really give a flying fuck what the difference is between two different budget boosts can skip right over those posts.

If we had more time on our hands we could come up with some quiz or something for noobs to pass, but frankly we dont have that much time.

I'm also going to ease up on the rules of flaming newbies for shitferbrains ideas. I don't want this to turn into Pirate where someone gets flamed anytime they have a new idea, but I'm getting pretty tired of all of this newbie bullshit that's been going around here lately.

OverkillZJ
10-11-2006, 11:57 AM
Can you tell Dave and I get annoyed easily?

We're coming up with the what / how now, should have a solution implimented in a week or two. I'm hoping to give the option for users to ignore the newb forums entirely if they want to.

ArloGuthroJeep
10-11-2006, 12:14 PM
Instead of an option to ignore the noob posts, why not just not visit the forum? Or click on the link?

Are you finding noobs starting new threads in the advanced tech sections or replying to threads that is bothersome? If it is the former how about they can't start a new thread, but can reply (ie: ask questions) to an existing thread?

OverkillZJ
10-11-2006, 12:24 PM
Not starting a thread is one way to go, the biggest issue is that most of us browse the forums by "view new posts" - this returns ALL new osts from ALL open forums.

I'm creating a group people can add themselves to, which will ignore certain forums. It's part of a few changes that give people the option to ignore dumb threads only if they want to.

Krash80
10-11-2006, 12:32 PM
I'm hoping to give the option for users to ignore the newb forums entirely if they want to.

Just to be devil's advocate again... the whole purpose of a newb forum (at least what i thought its purpose was) is to allow a newb to learn from others with more experience, not rattle hogwash back and forth with other ignorant newbs for a week until an unsuspecting viewer of the thread accidentally opens it and then feels the need jab a hot poker in their eye after being subjected to said hogwash.

What about this:
Newbs are allowed to post in any tech forum on the board...if they're a knowledgeable newb they can contribute good info right off the bat...if they're a newbtastic newb they can post in any forum, but obviously newbish posts in tech forums will be moved/deleted ASAP (and any newb with a blatant disregard for forum posting rules will feel the wrath of Dave's Super-Cyber-Old Spice and be deodorized from the board for good. So basically that remains the same as it is now.
However, to REPLY to a post in a newb forum, you must have at least 100 or 200 posts, so that the newb forum will have the original posts being made by the newb, but all the replies to the newb *should* be from more knowledgeable members offering accurate advice...and that should eliminate the infestation of "My budget boost beat up your budget boost" types of threads.

I also sort of like the idea of the "quiz," but the problem with that is you may have someone (for example) who is extremely knowledgeable about fabrication but knows absolutetly nothing about suspension...and they get held at the bottom which ain't right.

-habib-

BigDaveZJ
10-11-2006, 01:09 PM
I personally feel that allowing noobs to post replies in the advanced tech forums is okay, but not starting their own threads, unless they prove to the staff that they should be able to post there. If a noob posts in a thread about designing a 4-link or something like that to get clarification on something and a more experienced members answers their question, one of the purposes of this board has been served.

EMTimZJ
10-11-2006, 01:53 PM
I like the idea of the quiz, however Ron did bring up a good point about someone with a huge knowledge base in fab, and little to none in susp. However, if the quiz were only used to "break" or get past newbitron status from the get-go, (instead of going through 100-200 posts) it might be the best of both?

True, this does make it more complicated for the geek squad (and I say that with respect:love:) so that is also a factor.

Options:
-Sign up for MC, pass the quiz, post anywhere you want right from the get-go.

-Sign up for MC, fail the quiz, wait 100-200 posts before you can start threads in the advanced tech.

Does this make MC sound elite and "better" than others? Well, maybe; however the intent of this is to preserve the place that people aim to get to. Since there is a newbie section where someone can get correct info, I really don't see it as a closed door.

DJJordache
10-11-2006, 02:15 PM
how about a quiz that they have to USE THE SEARCH to pass:D and also include the 100-200 post thing but maybe if they pay to be a supporting member they don't have to wait the 100-200 posts since the $$ helps the site and that is some incentive to become a supporting member

Ken L
10-11-2006, 02:42 PM
So someone could post a couple hundred times in Chit-Chat and be able to start a new post in a tech forum, and they wouldn't be either any smarter or more qualified to contribute.

I'd favor either a quiz or something that would prove to the mods -Dave, Matt, whoever, that they can ask intelligent questions, know how to search, or otherwise qualify to post in the advanced tech.

Or maybe all newb posts have to have moderator approval? Can't the moderator review function be set so that posts under a certian post count have to be reviewed before they get posted? I know it would be a pain in the ass, but maybe that solves stuff?

nickzj08
10-11-2006, 02:53 PM
how about a quiz that they have to USE THE SEARCH to pass:D and also include the 100-200 post thing but maybe if they pay to be a supporting member they don't have to wait the 100-200 posts since the $$ helps the site and that is some incentive to become a supporting member

Could make it like a scavenger hunt using the search function. for example
1. What does BB stand for?
2. What size tire can I run on the BB?
3. Why is my gas milage so bad?
4. Does anyone make 8" coils so I dont have to trim for 35's

Skyline
10-11-2006, 04:05 PM
All of the above suggestions sound basically workable, but will probably hurt the forums in the long run.

You have designed a forum for newbie questions, so that's really all you need. It's kind of like the problem in the US we have with illegal aliens.....we've got adequate laws on the books already, but don't really enforce them. What we really need is tougher police; for this board that is.

I would recommend adding a couple of additional morerators with the power to move a post to the newbie tech forum. They should also have the power to delete a post that is off topic or too stupid on an existing thread, leaving a "this post deleted because it was too (fill in the blank)" comment in it's place. Also, add a "three strikes and you're out" policy for people too lazy to use the seach function. If they get called on failing to use the seach 3X, no posts for 6 months.

MUDDTRACKS
10-11-2006, 05:14 PM
how about something that just redirects you to like ju or jf If you enter bb or some shit like that.

ATL ZJ
10-11-2006, 05:39 PM
All of the above suggestions sound basically workable, but will probably hurt the forums in the long run.

Ignorant newbies generally do not enhance the quality of discussion about a technical topic. If you don't know what you're talking about, how can you say anything useful about it? Sure there are exceptions, but theyre the exception and not the norm. Also note that there is a difference between a person new to this website and a person new to the hobby. People new to the hobby are the ones at question in this case.

I think a quiz would be a wonderful way to bypass the post number requirement. Chit-chat posts should no longer count towards post total if this system is instituted. You probably aren't learning anything technical there anyways. There also needs to be an admin approval bypass for someone with a built rig that just found the site and wants to show everybody how he just did a propane conversion or something of an advanced technical nature.

If it's possible to make a quiz, that seems like the best alternative. Even things like, "Both front and rear driveshafts spin counterclockwise, true or false?" or "1993-1998 ZJs were available with the AMC 4.2 liter, T/F" would help separate those able to contribute to technical discussions from the clueless.

OverkillZJ
10-11-2006, 06:07 PM
I'm not making a quiz.

BigDaveZJ
10-11-2006, 11:23 PM
x2 on the quiz, while it would be a great way to do it, making it work would be a PITA.

And there certainly will be the ability for someone new to the site, not the hobby, to bypass the restrictions that will be in place.

ELLLLLIOTTTTT
10-12-2006, 12:39 AM
IMO a quiz is a stupid idea. This is a fucking offroad website not Med School. Just delete the crap that is stupid, I know we all enjoy scaring off the newbs.

Maybe you need another mod that can help out with deleting or moving bullshit threads. :D

violatedppl
10-12-2006, 12:52 AM
I gots an ider, if you could set it up where the red actually does something. instead of a minimum post count how about only being able to post in tech if you have been given qutos from other members here. Not sure if it is able to work but it would be good for those people who know thier shit and have just found the board to reap the benifits of their knowlege. just a thought

LouisianaZJ
10-12-2006, 01:47 AM
so can i fit 31's on a 2" body lift or not?

ILikeMud
10-12-2006, 09:07 AM
Could you guys use the rep system to you advantage?

After someone gets a certain amount of negative rep they are banned for x days. Seems like something that might work.

Skyline
10-12-2006, 10:11 AM
I gots an ider, if you could set it up where the red actually does something. instead of a minimum post count how about only being able to post in tech if you have been given qutos from other members here. Not sure if it is able to work but it would be good for those people who know thier shit and have just found the board to reap the benifits of their knowlege. just a thought

How in the hell would you get "qutos" without posting?

DJJordache
10-12-2006, 10:30 AM
so can i fit 31's on a 2" body lift or not? hahaha there is a guy in my local club putting a body lift on his XJ.................by putting the XJ body on a CJ frame:D or at least thats what his plans are

violatedppl
10-12-2006, 12:05 PM
How in the hell would you get "qutos" without posting?

by posting in something like newb tech and than having some of the people here who know their shit, be like hey this person knows their shit. and give them the rep for it. just a thought.

Jim311
10-12-2006, 12:17 PM
Enh, if people start ignoring all of the noob forums then the noobs won't ever be able to learn anything or get answers to their questions. Although I think the majority of noob questions could be answered with a quick search on Google, I still don't think it's cool to pretend like we weren't all noobs at one point. I don't like noob posts in the hardcore forum, but it seems like virtually everything I'm seeing in the forums here is stuff that's already been covered before on one forum or another. The only thing that really irritates me is when noobs spread misinformation like it's fact. The internet is rife with shit like that. If enough people say something on the net eventually people start thinking it's true, even if it's not really the case. Maybe this site just needs more mods to keep noob stuff out of the real tech forums.

PA Muddy ZJ
10-12-2006, 09:07 PM
the simple fact of the mater is, if you don't like the newbies, don't post in their threads. no ammount of quoating, sorting posts, quizes, etc is going to prevent newbies from asking the same old shit day in and day out. as mallcrawlin picks up the slack from the other sites as they go down hill, this "problem" as so many of you see it will only get "worse".

while a patron of the thread that i think brought this on, i don't think the "newbies" are the problem. it's an attitude of some of the "old school members". i caught my shit when i first join... i knew that is the culture that exists here. but when every newbie post turns into an "i hate newbie posts" argument... well... who's the problem?

there are going to be people with 100 different opinions and 100 differnet ways of doing things. not everyone that comes to MC is going to be looking at a chopped and tube unibody grand... some of are out to make capable daily-drivers of our rigs. does that make us "newbies" - i sure hope not. i've been at this shit way to long and made too many mistakes and learned too much the hard way to be concidered a "newb". but if that's how i'm scene... i'll go back to my previous statement - maybe the problem isn't with the newbies.

BigDaveZJ
10-12-2006, 09:23 PM
The whole point of this site is about making Grands capable OFF road. Most of the older members that I originally created this site to cater to don't really care about on-road manners. Yes it is mildly important, but it chaps my hide to see people discussing freaking budget boosts on this site. Budget boosts may not be a noob thing, but that doesn't mean they're not fucking stupid and there is ZERO fucking tech involved in a damn budget boost.

Some newbies are not the problem. The noobies that ARE the problem is the ones that can't seem to grasp simple fucking english in the description of the site that they see before they sign up and then post asinine bullshit in the tech forums that isn't even advanced enough for JU.

PA Muddy ZJ
10-12-2006, 09:36 PM
true that. then give them the cherping cricket routine. or designate ONE person to delete their posts and remind them via a PM that this is an advanced tech forum. flaming them withing the threads is pointless. either the policy needs to be to ignore them... or just delete them on the spot... one too many deletions and the person is banned.

Bustin' Loose
10-12-2006, 09:46 PM
Okay...I was gonna come in here and start screaming, but you took the air out of me.

damn it.

you do have a point.

I'm sick of the f'in noobs. Budget boosts? Air pressure? this is google shit and JU shit. It shouldn't be on Mallcrawlin. Yes, we were all noobs at one point. Hell, for a lot of shit I still am. But you don't see me posting up asinine questions. I ask them in the privacy of my own home to my resident shop bitch. :D

The point is, this site was not created to cater to noobs and as far as I know, has no intention to start doing so. Do we want more people to move from the noob status ot hard core? Sure. Are we willing to give them a little slack...a little bit. But that is it. Since the other sites have been having issues and since MC has gained in popularity we've seem more noobish questions. Do we want to pick up some of the slack...in certain area's maybe.

But some of this shit has got to stop.

Deleting threads might work but hell, we (like I do any of this..not!) don't have enough mods to police the boards as it is. It takes time to do this shit. Having a minimun number of posts before you can post in tech threads is easier and requires no more man power. If you think you are advanced enough to not need the "minimum" send a PM to Dave or Matt and prove it.

Nuff said

redzj
10-13-2006, 08:53 AM
I would hate to see this site turn into JU with 10 threads everyday on tire size and BB. On the other hand, just going by post count is a little unfair. Hell I still don't have a 100 posts and although I don't have alot of posts, I sure as hell am not a newbie! If I still had to only post in newbie forum I wouldn't be here at all.

NCXJ
10-13-2006, 09:14 AM
i agree that a post count would be wrong to determine who's a noob and who's not

i've only got like maybe 7 or 8 posts...but i'm damn sure i'm not a noob, u can pull my jeepin gangsta file and see for your self...i know just as much about zj's as i do on my own xj, and i've never even owned one!

basically what i'm saying, if u confine us to a section based on posts, i won't have enough patience answering bullshit questions just to finally be able to comment on serious tech....which is the very reason why i enjoy ya'lls company!

BigDaveZJ
10-13-2006, 09:53 PM
The post count requirement will NOT be a 100% everybody has to follow it rule. Basically if someone feels that they should be allowed to post in the advanced tech forums, they can contact the admin/mod staff and we can go from there. And newbs will not be constrained to just the newb forum, they just won't be able to START a new thread in an advanced tech forum.

PassRunnerZJ
10-15-2006, 11:47 PM
Back in the day when I followed and raced roadrace motorcycles the novice/nervous riders had to have a duct-tape X across the back of their leathers, so maybe noob's could have a different color for their posts to make it easier to spot and skip them if you want.

Also, can a system be put in place for the mods to give points to the known noobs that make good posts and after the mods can tell that they give value to the board, the noob status can be lifted.

I also like the "subscribe to post" idea, maybe you get two posts before you have to subscibe in case of emergencies, but basically it is economics. If it costs to post they are more likely to not post stupid questions and use the search.

jclaudii
10-24-2006, 11:25 AM
Damn, Yall are getting Hard Core over here......I love it! I frequent most of my time at JF and I must say I get fed up with all the crap over there. I hope this place stays hard core tech. Someday(a year or two) when I start my build, I hope to still be a member here and look at all the ideas/problems other people had with their builds. Being able to see cage ideas, home made suspensions, gutted/doorless zj, and how the owners did all the work is priceless to me.

I know I sold out and got a TJ, but the zj is still in the back yard coverd waiting to be gutted! I frequent here a few times a month to see if anything has changed, look at users projects, and if I see a topic that I may could help on I will offer up my advice. I plan on using this site to host my build up project.

I have one question, will those of us that have a relativley low post count, but have been here a while, will we be "grandfathered" in on any new policies?

I don't know how hard it would be to create this:
Paying members will be able to vote on a potential newbie or non tech thread. Set the vote limit to 3 or 5 and when that number is reached the thread is either closed, moved, or remains open. A system like this would allow supporting members who are always on here with nothing better to do, to "moderate" in the absense of the few mods. When they vote they will also have to put in a short reason of why the voted the way they did.

Example: If user xyz vote "close" the reason could be "this site's focus is not on gas mileage with a particular tire size, please visit jf or ju for this type of issue"

Example 2: xyz vote "move" reason "this is a topic for the newbie tech section"

If you wanted, you could even tie in a ratio to the newbie that showed how many threads remains open compared to closed.

Well Good Luck Dave and Matt!

TrojanMan
10-24-2006, 12:13 PM
There is another thing to consider I guess.. the gray area. I'm not as hardcore as most of you guys, but i'm definately not on JU status. JU is declining as 80% of new threads aren't even on BB's anymore - they're just absolute nonsense like about 20" wheels, car polishes, OMG I LUV MY NEW ZJ LOL, etc. No i've never designed a custom 4 link suspension, my rig is still basically stock.. but I do have some key mods and JU is basically useless to me. I'm not really 100% sure what i'm getting at here haha.. but I just want people like me to be considered when you change any kind of format to the site. As the other forums decline the gray area between newb and mallcrawlin grows and the people have to fit in somewhere.

spykosshow
10-25-2006, 03:19 PM
There is another thing to consider I guess.. the gray area. I'm not as hardcore as most of you guys, but i'm definately not on JU status. JU is declining as 80% of new threads aren't even on BB's anymore - they're just absolute nonsense like about 20" wheels, car polishes, OMG I LUV MY NEW ZJ LOL, etc. No i've never designed a custom 4 link suspension, my rig is still basically stock.. but I do have some key mods and JU is basically useless to me. I'm not really 100% sure what i'm getting at here haha.. but I just want people like me to be considered when you change any kind of format to the site. As the other forums decline the gray area between newb and mallcrawlin grows and the people have to fit in somewhere.



I'm the same way. I may not know anything about roll cages or 4 links, but I can hold my own in the automotive industry. I've restored a buddy's 66 mustang, made a motor and fuel managment system for his MS protege, lifted my rig, and am working on my 4wd swap. I'm around here to learn about all the hardcore stuff though.

BigDaveZJ
10-25-2006, 03:24 PM
And you both have WELL over any minimum post requirements we would have, you've got nothing to worry about.

redzj
10-25-2006, 05:54 PM
JU definately has it's place though. I stop by there every once in a while for a good laugh, or to sell a HP30 for a $10,000

Kraqa
11-18-2006, 02:20 AM
I personally feel that allowing noobs to post replies in the advanced tech forums is okay, but not starting their own threads, unless they prove to the staff that they should be able to post there. If a noob posts in a thread about designing a 4-link or something like that to get clarification on something and a more experienced members answers their question, one of the purposes of this board has been served.

you mean liek the newb who posted abotu airbag helper springs in my air shock calculator thread.

piku303
08-05-2007, 08:34 PM
hahaha there is a guy in my local club putting a body lift on his XJ.................by putting the XJ body on a CJ frame:D or at least thats what his plans are

that sounds so badass. i was thinking the other night and wondering if anybody had ever cut off the frame rails on a zj/xj and fabbed a boxed frame. id only do this mod so i could run a body lift though. haha jk. it sounds like somebody has had to have done it but the cost and time to do it sounds like a waste. if i really want a frame id buy a toyota.

piku303
08-05-2007, 08:42 PM
and for actually contributing to this discussion... i am still a newb and believe i will be for a number of years. i think that allowing all newbs to post in all forums for example advanced tech wouldnt be an issue. i dont think i will have a question that warrants posting in that forum any time soon, nor would any other newb. if somebody posts in the advanced tech about a BB or what lift/ tires size shit then i think that the mods should exercise their authority. not all newbs are dumb but the ones that are and are only using this forum for stuff that can be googled or even wikipediaed shouldnt be here.

also the feature that allows people to ignore newb forum posts would suck for me. im honestly trying to grow in the hobby and figure out more. how am i going to do this when nobody with experience is looking at my posts. eventually all the people looking and posting in the newb forum will be newbs and then it will turn in to nagca. you might as well rename the newb forum "Little NAGCA." i started up here to get away from the unbelievable gayness that pervades most of NAGACA. i think better and stricter modding is all that is needed to improve the this site as of now.

piku303
08-05-2007, 08:48 PM
one more thing. a really cool feature would be for people with high rep power(not mods) to be allowed to nominate a post for deletion. if more than 3 people nominate the post for deletion, the post will be deleted. this deletion however must be approved by a mod and the decision can be vetoed by the mods as well.

also id like to point out that i spelled NAGCA wrong in the previous post, please focus on what i'm trying to say not my stupid spelling mistakes. i dont want to edit it.

BigDaveZJ
08-05-2007, 10:29 PM
So the rules have been in effect for a few months if you hadn't noticed . . . .

And as for the nominating a thread to be deleted thing, there's this little button under everyone's username on every post they make where you can report the post/thread to a mod.

fsjtrash
08-05-2007, 11:31 PM
There should almost be a section for questions asked to the Advanced group, you know? Like it's not really a noob question, but it's something someone could use help on, but doesn't want to hear a bunch of BS from the noob forum group. I dunno, My posts don't allow me into that forum quite yet, so I tend to hope some of the wiser fellows see some of the questions. I mean, in reality, we're all learning from eachother (Some are just learning their own lack of intelligence).