Cooling issues

[napajeep]

Well here goes. My water pump started leaking 3 months ago. Put a new one in, along with hoses, t-stat, belt, etc.. The weather was cool for the first month or so after. Then it got warmer, as it got warmer so did the Jeep. Figuring I had another issue, I replaced the thermostat again (maybe a bad one). Still the same. Put a 3 row radiator in, still the same. Changed the pump again, still the same.

What it does: gets hot while driving at higher speeds (45+), will actually cool off while idling (in 105 weather with AC on). I have checked the fan clutch, lower hose for collapsing, etc.. I do have an ARB bumper on the front, would that affect the cooling that much? Haven't heard of any issues with it.

Also checked the temp with an IR gun, and real time feedback diagnostic tool, temp sensor is not bad (sensor reading 210, IR at inlet on top of rad 211 degrees).

Any help would be appreciated.

Thanks,
Scott

PS 98, 5.2

[LouisianaZJ]

what kind of water pump did ya put in?

[dads5.9]

My son Justin (jsteves) is fighting the same problem. Last summer he installed a 3-row radiator and before GSW we installed a Flowkooler pump and 5.9 electric fan. It is definately better but can still run hot on the highway with the temp is >90*. On the trail it runs cool at 180*. He has a TR bumper. To get home from Moab we had to ghetto-fab a cardboard and duct tape air ram on the front of the TR to force more air through the radiator and we were able to keep it from overheating. He wasn't real excited about the new look.

I have a 5.9L and the ARB bumper and I don't have any problems. I was doing some more reading of people with similar problems and they thought that the air hitting the front axle at higher speeds can form a high pressure area behind the radiator and reduce the air flow. We haven't had a chance to play with some air foil designs to test that theory and see if we can change the under car air flow.

[napajeep]

what kind of water pump did ya put in?

The first one was an A1 Cardone, brand new. The 2nd came from the dealer, just to make sure there weren't any design differences.

[DJJordache]

definetly sounds like a air flow issue at high speed I don't have this problem but I'm still building a high flow front grill kinda like this but not so ricey:D but I know I'm gonna catch some shit for it anyways:smt041 and it's not gonna be attatched to the hood, I'm gonna use some expended metal for the grill portion of it
http://memimage.cardomain.net/member_images/2/web/602000-602999/602172_127_full.jpg

one more thought: do you thing that is why the 5.9 had hood vents, to lower the under hood air pressure to improve airflow through the radiator?

edit one more edit=) the 5.9 grill area in front of the radiator is raised and more forward than the rest of the grill but the supports are countersunk in the the grill. I think they did this to force air into the radiator at highway speed and this won't allow as much air to be deflected off of the grill supports and more forced into the radiator
attatched it what I'm talking about

[Cue-Ball]

Jordan,

I actually like that hood.

[DJJordache]

Jordan,

I actually like that hood.
go here for the build pics of it
http://www.sounddomain.com/ride/602172/1
I'm going to end up building a cowl hood but not quite like that one but still grafting it onto the stock hood but it's gonna be lots of work

[Cue-Ball]

Thanks.

Sorry to hijack Scott.

[napajeep]

Well, drove up to Redding last night, still the same problem. Talk about frustrating. Anyone else have any ideas? I might try the ram air to see if that works.

[Cue-Ball]

Sucks Scott,

Wish we had some better answers for you.

Say did you order those brake pads I needed for the guy in Malta?

Dirk

[napajeep]

Sorry, forgot to tell you that I ordered them. Don't remember when they are do to arrive, but they were ordered the next day.

[napajeep]

I'm toying around with the idea of removing the thermostat altogether, just for testing purposes. If that works, I'll try drilling several small holes around the thermostat to improve flow. Good idea, bad idea??

[Jim311]

This summer when it's 90+ I've been running in the 220ish range on the highway at 75-80 MPH with the AC on. Never gets much hotter than that so I haven't looked into the issue too much.

[napajeep]

That's about where I'm running at highway speeds when it's over 85+, I just feel that with a new 3 row radiator, 180 thermostat and all, it shouldn't be that high. Last year (before the ARB), I went to Palm Springs in July and didn't have this issue. Just kind of frustrating to be running hotter with better parts.

[Cue-Ball]

Sorry, forgot to tell you that I ordered them. Don't remember when they are do to arrive, but they were ordered the next day.

Thanks, no worries.

Dirk

[Jim311]

That's about where I'm running at highway speeds when it's over 85+, I just feel that with a new 3 row radiator, 180 thermostat and all, it shouldn't be that high. Last year (before the ARB), I went to Palm Springs in July and didn't have this issue. Just kind of frustrating to be running hotter with better parts.

Sounds like we pretty much have the same issue and the same setup. I've got an ARB, 3 row, and 180 degree stat and I'm still running warm. If I turn off the AC and slow down a bit things are usually fine, and it hasn't overheated on the trail.. so.. :confused:

[okzj]

Try a 195° stat and see if that works. The hotter stat opens later, giving the coolant in the radiator more time to cool off. Try it, and if it doesn't work, you're out 6 bucks.

[nate]

Mine will hit 220-240* on the trail with the A/C on when it's hot. I don't really worry about it until it goes over 260*

[napajeep]

Maybe I shouldn't be as worried about this as I am, it's just that last year I went to Palm Springs in July and it wasn't running that hot, of course I wasn't going up and down hills or anything. Putting a new fan clutch on today (the only thing I haven't changed at this point), if that makes no difference, I'm going to construct a ram air set up for under the bumper.

[Skyline]

My 5.2 runs at no higher than 210 on very hot days with the A/C on. Most times at 190-210. I think I'm on my 3rd POS factory radiator, but I've always replaced them for coolant loss issues, not overheating. I've also had to replace the water pump, and the water pump housing gasket. If you are running much hotter than this something is not right. One thing to do make sure you have no air in the system. I don't know what the exact proceedure for filling the system is on a GC, but for sure you want the heat on full. On some cars you have to alternate squeezing the upper and lower radiator hoses to get the current flowing to the water pump. Some cars have bleeder valves. Bottom line is that the cooling system can not do its job if the water pump is pumping air.

Also, I would do a pressure test on the system. Sometimes a small leak is enough to let air into the system without leaving any puddles on your driveway.

[Cue-Ball]

Maybe I shouldn't be as worried about this as I am, it's just that last year I went to Palm Springs in July and it wasn't running that hot, of course I wasn't going up and down hills or anything. Putting a new fan clutch on today (the only thing I haven't changed at this point), if that makes no difference, I'm going to construct a ram air set up for under the bumper.

Any update from the weekend?

[napajeep]

Took the other car to Redding. Will be fabbing up the ram air Tues. and driving it in the valley on the weekend.

[Cue-Ball]

Keep us all posted.

[DJJordache]

need pics of the ram air setup too:D I thought about making a cardboard body kit for mine just to mess with a friend who is a ricer:bling:

[jsteves]

Just build something like this :best:

http://jeepzj.net/ricerram.jpg

http://jeepzj.net/ricer.jpg

It did actually work. on the way back from GSW I had some serious cooling issues...then that.

[Cue-Ball]

Ah DUCT tape and CARDBOARD, can fix practically anything with that combination.

[napajeep]

I think I've got something figured out that will minimize the use of duct tape. The stock plastic air deflector that sit below the sway bar fits perfectly behind the ARB bumper. Just need to get 2 l brackets, attach at the forward mounting bolt for the ARB and it should be a good solid mount. I'll post up pic's so you'll see what I'm talking about. Should make an effective ram air while minimizing the impact on approach angle.

[Cue-Ball]

I think I've got something figured out that will minimize the use of duct tape

Where's the fun in that??:D

[RDBillsJr]

Re your overheating at speed but not at idle:

I have a friend who went through the same thing on a CJ after he changed water pumps. No one could find the problem, including everyone in his jeep club and two local jeep shops who know their stuff. He changed thermostats, radiator, and the water pump for the second time. No change.

So several of us on a jeep run were standing by the road while my friend was pouring water over the radiator trying to cool his jeep down when a really old guy (since I'm 55 I use the term "really old" for him) stopped in his beaten up WWII jeep to ask what the problem was. After listening, he asked my friend, "Are you sure you got a water pump for your serpentine belt engine and not the v-belt engine?" "What's the difference?" my friend asked, and the really old guy replied, "The pumps look exactly the same but the impellors are designed to turn in opposite directions, and if you have the wrong one you will have the exact symptoms you described."

So we went to the closest NAPA and got a pump that we were sure was right for the vehicle, put it in and problem solved! (When my friend had replaced his water pump the second time, "just in case" the first replacement was bad, the counter monkey had given him the same wrong pump.)

Just a thought. You might want to check that out.

Robert Bills
Orange County CA
'97 ZJ tsi
'83 CJ7 rockcrawler
'46 Bantam T3-C trailer

[LouisianaZJ]

yeah. the ones with the reverse impeller has an R stamped on it. DC switched between R and normal around 99 i think, on the XJ 4.0 anyways

[LouisianaZJ]

http://www.jeepin.com/features/waterpump/pump17.jpg
pic

[napajeep]

That was one of the first things I thought of. (selling auto parts for a living for 20 years, you see a lot) That's one of the reasons I bought a dealer pump, just to make sure that the impeller designs were the same. The dealer and A1 Cardone pump were identical, I still put the dealer pump on (the 2nd one) just in case. Same issue. Put together a sort of scoop for the front today, we'll see how that works.

[gcstano]

I have the same problems like you, but At least I know since when. After instalation of custom bumper with winch is my car on highway like water heater :rolleyes:.The winch (warn xd9000i) is blocking nearly all grill and the lower part of bumper is sending all rest of air to the ground at highway speed. I have a taurus fan and should be always at hi speed on the highway-which I dont like......Currently I have ordered a delta control unit, anh hope, that can help a bit. When not I will give my bumper to some good friend :D and build new one which should be done in a weekend.