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ArloGuthroJeep
06-03-2006, 02:13 AM
Long post but I need help here bad:

So about 5 weeks ago I ran Gillespie Gulch/Nugget Hill and during that day ripped up my SS. Every since then I have had bad DW. Bad as in DW at 30-35mph as soon as I hit a bump.

So in the past few weeks I have been on a spending splurge to fix everything I can. I have replaced:
1) UCA axle side bushings
2) Right-Front wheel hub bearing assembly
3) 4 x TRE's (2x on the tie rod and 2x on the drag link)
4) BPE (got rid of a little clunking)
5) Monroe SS from Kolak (switching to an OME SS tomorrow)

So that is ~$400 there (+ tools necessary to install this crap:().

I have another wheel bearing assembly I am picking up tomorrow (another $140) and on Monday will have a set of ball joints for one side (probably going to replace my front-right since it seems like it originates from there).

Testing all of my components (grabbing tire @ 3 & 9 or 6 & 12, prying hub upward) don't display any symptoms of bad components but each time I replace something my DW gets slightly better.

So GSW is in ~5 days and the last thing I want to do is to be the guy to bail the day before the trip:toimonst:

The only things I haven't replaced are:
1) Both sets of ball joints
2) Wheel bearings on driver side

All control arms + track bar are new (RE CA's and JKS Trackbar). I only have 32k miles on my WJ so nothing should be worn out. Everything went down the crapper the day I destroyed my SS.

So in dire desire to go out to Moab, I need your guys help!

Suggestions, thoughts, etc... Other things to check?

I have gotten many alignments, dropped my air pressure on my 31's down to 28psi (my 32's are even worse!).

Thanks a bunch,
Ryan

Sandy R
06-03-2006, 09:32 AM
Long post but I need help here bad:

So about 5 weeks ago I ran Gillespie Gulch/Nugget Hill and during that day ripped up my SS. Every since then I have had bad DW. Bad as in DW at 30-35mph as soon as I hit a bump.

So in the past few weeks I have been on a spending splurge to fix everything I can. I have replaced:
1) UCA axle side bushings
2) Right-Front wheel hub bearing assembly
3) 4 x TRE's (2x on the tie rod and 2x on the drag link)
4) BPE (got rid of a little clunking)
5) Monroe SS from Kolak (switching to an OME SS tomorrow)

So that is ~$400 there (+ tools necessary to install this crap:().

I have another wheel bearing assembly I am picking up tomorrow (another $140) and on Monday will have a set of ball joints for one side (probably going to replace my front-right since it seems like it originates from there).

Testing all of my components (grabbing tire @ 3 & 9 or 6 & 12, prying hub upward) don't display any symptoms of bad components but each time I replace something my DW gets slightly better.

So GSW is in ~5 days and the last thing I want to do is to be the guy to bail the day before the trip:toimonst:

The only things I haven't replaced are:
1) Both sets of ball joints
2) Wheel bearings on driver side

All control arms + track bar are new (RE CA's and JKS Trackbar). I only have 32k miles on my WJ so nothing should be worn out. Everything went down the crapper the day I destroyed my SS.

So in dire desire to go out to Moab, I need your guys help!

Suggestions, thoughts, etc... Other things to check?

I have gotten many alignments, dropped my air pressure on my 31's down to 28psi (my 32's are even worse!).

Thanks a bunch,
Ryan

Back in 2000 I had a similar problem and changed a lot of what you're replacing. It turned out to be a loose front track bar. I got the RE heim joint end for the upper mount, used a breaker bar for leverage to torque it after I thought everything was tight, and wa-la, DW gone for 6 years now!

With the ignition key turned on (but not the engine) have a friend turn the steering wheel back and forth rapidly for several minutes if necessary or for as long as it takes even if he needs breaks while you get down under the front and determine what's loose. DW usually happens when something is loose or failing, unless your angles are just really off. Almost always it seems that DW turns out to in someway or another be trackbar related. Good luck and keep us posted.

BigDaveZJ
06-03-2006, 10:05 AM
Through all of that did you ever get an alignment? You could've bent your tie rod every so slightly causing toe-in.

ArloGuthroJeep
06-03-2006, 10:11 AM
Yeah I get an alignment weekly it seems - Go lifetime alignments:D

I have a JKS tierod which is beefy...when I replaced its TRE's it didn't seem at all bent up...

MUDDTRACKS
06-03-2006, 01:08 PM
might want to check the steering gear bolt's and the pitman arm nut.

I just had a round of dw and it was the pitman arm bolt came loose.

No fun on 37" tire's

Snowman
06-03-2006, 01:13 PM
might want to check the steering gear bolt's and the pitman arm nut.

I just had a round of dw and it was the pitman arm bolt came loose.

No fun on 37" tire's

Roger that! I lost a bolt on the linkage on the freeway and was lucky to get it to the side without having or causing an accident.

In fact check every bolt and cotter pin.

See you at GSW.

SCAMPER ZJ
06-03-2006, 02:20 PM
Dittos on what everyone else has suggested. If everything is tightened up, and your angles aren't too crazy, and you've got a good steering shock (not everyone runs with one, but you might need to), check your tires. Sounds like you have them all at the same psi already, but if there is some uneven tire wear, that sometimes can trip you into DW, especially if your rig has a propensity towards that.

BigDaveZJ
06-03-2006, 02:25 PM
Dittos on what everyone else has suggested. If everything is tightened up, and your angles aren't too crazy, and you've got a good steering shock (not everyone runs with one, but you might need to), check your tires. Sounds like you have them all at the same psi already, but if there is some uneven tire wear, that sometimes can trip you into DW, especially if your rig has a propensity towards that.

That reminds me, did you balance your tires?? I've had that start to cause DW for me before.

ELLLLLIOTTTTT
06-03-2006, 02:44 PM
run the tires at like 12 PSI on the street for a little bit and see if the DW goes away. Sounds like if everything else is checked and tightened properly the tires are all thats left.

JohnBoulderCO
06-03-2006, 04:34 PM
Did you replace the messed up SS yet?

You can get a Rancho one from anywhere in town. They now make one for the WJ or if you are running an OME and have the brackets drilled bigger, get one for a TJ and it will bolt right on.

Every time I have had DW it came down to two things: worn out SS or loose track bar. Well, there was that third time when my pitman arm nut was loose...

If you have more then 10K miles on your SS replace it, those things go soft on a WJ and then the DW starts.

Tighten your trackbar and get a new SS.

Edit: Looks like you were going to replace the SS the other day, did that make a diff?
Also, being at 5" on short arms is always going to be hit and miss with DW on a WJ.
I ran 4" and 6" on short arms and every time I drove north on the Diagonal, right as I crossed 63rd street at around 50mph, I would get DW, every time, until I went to long arms.

ArloGuthroJeep
06-03-2006, 06:06 PM
So John you're saying I should switch to long arms in the next 3 days?:D

I just switched to an OME SS from a Monroe SS (Kolak's SS) this morning and has been in the shop all day getting another alignment.

Puma: I ran my 32's @ 15PSI and it drive great like that. Of course that makes for horrible handling and poor tire wear. How long can I go with MTR's w/o destroying the tires on a 350mile(x2) drive?

Tires were balanced the other day. My 32's have a slight vibration between 37&43MPH and then it goes away and drive great but that vibration never caused DW...only potholes. Going to get those rebalanced Monday...

Thanks for the ideas guys, I'll report back when I get it back from its alignment later today.

Sandy R
06-03-2006, 06:50 PM
Just curious, have you studied all of the joints,ends while someone turned the steering wheel back and forth rapidly to see what's jumping around? Chances are that you will see the problem within a few minutes. New tires, etc. are likely very expensive bandaids for whatever the real culprit.

JohnBoulderCO
06-03-2006, 07:39 PM
Dont' drive on the highway at 15psi or your tires will explode.
No, I wasn't suggesting LA's in a few days, it's just that WJ's are sensitive on short arms at 4" and above. That new SS should have done something. Sandy has a good suggestion, get under and look, while someone turns the wheel.

Colorado 5.9
06-03-2006, 08:37 PM
With everything he's done I vote: Caster !!!!


Or something allot of people overlook. The track-bar bracket frame side. That meens the botls that go through the fenderwell besides the the two that go up from underneath. That is if they are the same as the ZJ bracket.

ArloGuthroJeep
06-03-2006, 09:21 PM
Got it back from its alignment a short bit ago and drove on 119 @ 75 w/o DW. It however didn't feel 100% stable like it used to on the highway and there is a VERY slight shimmy over the right kind of bumps.

Tomorrow I'll bring my toe in some more (from .2 to .25).

My left caster is 4.22 and my right caster is 4.8. I have a feeling the answer is yes but could this be contributing to my unstableness/DW?

The OME SS works a lot better then the Monroe SS.

Thanks Guys,
Ryan

JohnBoulderCO
06-03-2006, 10:29 PM
Caster helps more when you are on short arms. I'm running around 3degs on long arms with no issues. If you crank in more caster your front pinion angle will get worse, causing front drive shaft vibs, so it's a trade off game. Glad to hear it's doing better.

Colorado 5.9
06-03-2006, 10:37 PM
When you mean unstable. What exactly do you mean. I never had D.W. but when my caster was too close to 0* the jeep would kind of wander a bit. Kinda like if a pickup truck was over loaded. I guess you would call it under steer? I leangthend the lower C.arms a few turns to give a bit more positive caster & it was allot better. I then went & got it aligned & it was still in spec for caster but it drove allot better.

D.W.: I think from what you said on jeep forum It starts just a tad now but recovers on it's own real quick now? I'd call it bump steer now.

Mine did that after I put in the new steering box. That told me I needed to do something with my old tired TRE's so I upgraded the whole thing with the currie HD setup. Now more B.Stop.

ArloGuthroJeep
06-04-2006, 12:44 AM
Yeah like I said on JF...I guess you would call it bump steer now. It barely shutters now and quickly recovers.

AFAIK there is no cool WJ steering upgrade, typically TJ's/ZJ's upgrade to WJ steering setups:p I have a JKS Tierod & new TRE's all around so everything should be tight. Only thing left stock up front is my drag link...I'll probably upgrade it after GSW depending on how much GSW costs:|

So off to adjusting my caster in the morning.

Colorado 5.9
06-04-2006, 01:00 AM
Ya know I just reread my own post. I ment to say I shortened the lowers a few turns. That clocks the whole axle clockwise. Right of 12 O'clock is positive & left of course is neg.:)

ArloGuthroJeep
06-04-2006, 01:07 AM
Am I the only one that thinks that is backwards? Seems like 0deg should be when the pinion is "level" and anything point up is positive:shrug:

Colorado 5.9
06-04-2006, 01:23 AM
LOL

Here a good explanation: http://www.answers.com/topic/caster-angle

By the way. You might check the nut of the pitman arm to the sector shaft of the steering box & the steering box bolts if you have not done it.

When you get real bad death wobble it can loosen everything up.

ArloGuthroJeep
06-04-2006, 01:29 AM
Yeah I checked it when replacing my TRE on my drag link...I couldn't get it off it was so tight:( Err, I haven't checked the steering box bolts so I'll check those in the AM also. Thanks.

XLSLC
06-04-2006, 11:55 PM
x2 on the loose track bar. Mine's bad but I just deal with the DW at 45-55 mph.

nate
06-05-2006, 10:22 AM
Death Wobble is gay. I bought a trailer and cured the problem for good. :D

ArloGuthroJeep
06-05-2006, 10:41 AM
And what did that cost you including the tow rig;)

nate
06-05-2006, 12:22 PM
Alot less since I don't have to keep the ZJ street legal anymore.

Already had the tow rig as a daily drive before I got the trailer anyhow. 98 Dodge 2500 CTD