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BigDaveZJ
05-09-2006, 01:03 PM
MallCrawlin will be installing, and then thoroughly abusing, the ZJ Hard Arm 4-Link Long Arm Suspension from Clayton Off Road (http://www.claytonoffroad.com).

Clayton Off Road is a very well known name in aftermarket suspension setups. There are many debates on internet forums about the different long arm manufacturers, and which one is the best. Most people out there feel that Clayton's setup is considerably better than the rest of the competition. I tend to agree with those statements, and that is why I am going with Clayton's setup. What I hope to do here is provide the reader with the proper information so that they know why Clayton's Hard Arm 4-Link is considered to be the best long arm kit on the market for ZJ's.

We will be going through and do the full install ourselves, with detailed pictures and descriptions of what it is we are doing.

We will be installing the bracketry first, hopefully within the next 10-14 days, and then the arms shortly after that. The arms are currently on backorder, but the project will be done before GSW.

INSTALL UPDATE!!!

Alright, the bracketry has arrived (the arms have too, I just haven't gone to work to get them yet) and the bracketry is installed!

Here is all of the bracketry:

http://www.mallcrawlin.com/productreviews/claytonlongarms/claytonla007.jpg

Notice the thickness of the steel and the high quality of the welds, Clayton is putting out some excellent stuff here!

I decided to throw down a coat of Hammerite before I started assembling anything. I had debated on what to do with painting, and decided to paint as much as I could ahead of time since it would be much easier to paint, and then I just ground off the paint where I needed to weld.

http://www.mallcrawlin.com/productreviews/claytonlongarms/claytonla009.jpg

After the Hammerite had dried we went to work on the factory crossmember. We originally supported the drivetrain from the tranny, but then decided the t-case would be a bit stronger point.

http://www.mallcrawlin.com/productreviews/claytonlongarms/claytonla003.jpg

Make sure everything is supported well here as that's a lot of heavy stuff that could come crashing down on you!

In removing the crossmember, we decided to pull the crossmember off of the tranny mount on the vehicle. Clayton's directions say to disassemble the mount and attach the mount to the new crossmember off the vehicle, but this is what we did. Not saying either way is right or wrong, just seemed easier at the time.

With the new crossmember mounted to the transmission, we began bolting the control arm mounts to the crossmember.

http://www.mallcrawlin.com/productreviews/claytonlongarms/claytonla011.jpg

I really like the way this setup works. Very strong on the unibody rails for the control arms with the mounts being welded and bolted, and then the center section of the crossmember drops out for easy drivetrain work.

Once the control arm mounts were attached to crossmember, we went to center the crossmember under the vehicle. This took a bit of work and some measuring. We had to move the drivetrain to the driver side about 5/8" to get it centered. It most likely became off centered while we were removing the old crossmember. When doing all of this, be sure to keep an eye on your t-case linkage as it can very easily fall out of its pivot locations and be a MAJOR pain in the ass to get back in.

Here's the crossmember all bolted up and ready for the sides to be welded in:

http://www.mallcrawlin.com/productreviews/claytonlongarms/claytonla015.jpg

This is the part where I started to get nervous. I am a relatively novice welder and don't have much experience welding to the unibody. Most of the welds didn't turn out pretty by any means, but I managed to get good penetration and only blew a hole through the unibody once or twice. I would recommend anyone getting ready to weld on their unibody to read Kraqa's Unibody Welding Bible (http://www.mallcrawlin.com/forum/showthread.php?t=5878). There is a lot of good info in there that will help with welding to the unibody. One thing to make sure you do, is disconnect your battery! It's never a good idea to weld to your vehicle with the battery connected.

I welded up the passenger side, and then let Pam have a go at welding some of the driver side.

http://www.mallcrawlin.com/productreviews/claytonlongarms/claytonla017.jpg

The welds on the outside of the control arm mounts are pretty simple, but the front and back get pretty tricky because of the way the metal in the mounts is bent. I found myself making some pretty big J-hooks to get it to work.

Another thing to make sure you do is prep your metal VERY well. Here's Pam using a flap disk on a grinder cleaning up the metal for the rear mounts.

http://www.mallcrawlin.com/productreviews/claytonlongarms/claytonla025.jpg

I wouldn't recommend using a regular grinding disk as they are too aggressive for the unibody, but a flap disk works very well for me. For those who haven't seen a flap disk, it's basically a grinder wheel with layers of sandpaper on it. Works great for getting paint off and prepping metal for welding.

One other little problem we ran into was some of my welds were too big. So Keith (mtn WJ) took the unibody protectors to the bench grinder to make a little more room.

http://www.mallcrawlin.com/productreviews/claytonlongarms/claytonla028.jpg

Now they fit like a glove.

http://www.mallcrawlin.com/productreviews/claytonlongarms/claytonla029.jpg

http://www.mallcrawlin.com/productreviews/claytonlongarms/claytonla030.jpg

These pieces are important to the overall design of the kit because they tie in the front and rear components of the suspension and allow forces to be distributed over a much larger area, and they also add some stiffness to our weak unibodies.

Along the driverside unibody rail you will need to move the fuel supply line, the fuel return line, and the brake line. I zip tied mine off to my driveshaft. One thing I did goof on though that I haven't figured out how to fix yet is getting those lines back where they're supposed to be. The upper control arm mount on that side goes up far enough to where I can no longer snake those lines along the unibody rail. In Clayton's instructions he mentions that 1/4" may need to be ground off the top of the mounts. I would highly recommend doing this before welding anything in. I'll probably use a plasma to notch the mounts and get my lines back out of the way. You can also see one of the rear mounts welded into place in this picture. We test fit the unibody protectors several times before welding the mounts into place to make sure we had the right spot.

http://www.mallcrawlin.com/productreviews/claytonlongarms/claytonla031.jpg

On the passenger side, my Rocky Road Outfitter's Rock Rails were interfering with the control arm mounts. Between the choice of remove the Rails and cut them, or notch the control arm mount, we decided to notch the control arm mount.

http://www.mallcrawlin.com/productreviews/claytonlongarms/claytonla035.jpg

Once both rear mounts were in, I moved on to the unibody protectors. Here you can that this one doesn't quite line up because of the size of the weld. Back to the grinder . . .

http://www.mallcrawlin.com/productreviews/claytonlongarms/claytonla038.jpg

After a little finessing they fit perfect! Time to weld them up!

http://www.mallcrawlin.com/productreviews/claytonlongarms/claytonla040.jpg

The driver side unibody rail on my ZJ has seen quite a bit of abuse, so I had to skip a section of stitch welding, but I don't see it being an issue. I could've tried to fill the gap, but with the difference in thickness of the metal figured it would be more trouble than it's worth. This section here doesn't need a full weld either, stitch welding is okay, and frankly probably your best bet.

http://www.mallcrawlin.com/productreviews/claytonlongarms/claytonla043.jpg

During all of this I somehow managed to melt the little rubber grips on the ground clamp from my welder . . . .

http://www.mallcrawlin.com/productreviews/claytonlongarms/claytonla042.jpg

The arms and the rear truss will be going in soon and I'll certainly have pics as soon as I can get them up!

BigDaveZJ
05-09-2006, 01:14 PM
Now onto installing the arms and the rear truss.

Here is a picture of the front arms. They use a radius arm style system where the upper is actually attached to the lower control arm. Works quite well and is similar geometrically speaking to the front arms used on old Bronco's.

http://www.mallcrawlin.com/productreviews/claytonlongarms/claytonla045.jpg

And the rear arms. The uppers are the smaller size box and triangulate, eliminating the need for a rear trackbar.

http://www.mallcrawlin.com/productreviews/claytonlongarms/claytonla046.jpg

These are the new bolts included with the kit. Notice the plated ones have grease zerks on the bolt, and holes in the bolt for the grease to lube the joints.

http://www.mallcrawlin.com/productreviews/claytonlongarms/claytonla047.jpg

Before installing the front arms, cut off and grind down as much of the old lower control arm brackets as much as you can. How neat you leave them is up to you, but be sure you cut enough away so the front arms don't hit them.

http://www.mallcrawlin.com/productreviews/claytonlongarms/claytonla049.jpg

Use the lower arms to determine your axle position, and then set and attach your uppers to determine your pinion angle. I left mine as close to what they were before as I could since I had no vibes or DW.

http://www.mallcrawlin.com/productreviews/claytonlongarms/claytonla050.jpg

Make sure all bolts are torqued to spec and the ones with grease zerks are greased, and the jamb nuts are tightened.

This is where I basically went out of comission. We had moved on to removing the rear axle to install the truss and rear arms, and when I was pulling off one of the shocks, I managed to catch my thumb in between the shock and the unibody. Cracked the nail clean, and it was all still imbedded in the nail bed. Hurt like a SONOFABITCH!!!

http://www.mallcrawlin.com/productreviews/claytonlongarms/claytonla051.jpg

Here's Keith (mtn WJ) working on pulling the rear axle.

http://www.mallcrawlin.com/productreviews/claytonlongarms/claytonla053.jpg

With my gimp thumb I was able to cut the UCA brackets off the rear axle and grind the axle smooth and install the truss. Lining up the truss is crucial, take your time, and weld it good.

http://www.mallcrawlin.com/productreviews/claytonlongarms/claytonla063.jpg

All welded up and ready for paint.

http://www.mallcrawlin.com/productreviews/claytonlongarms/claytonla065.jpg

And the #1 reason why I went to long arms.

http://www.mallcrawlin.com/productreviews/claytonlongarms/claytonla071.jpg

Unibody control arm mounts = teh SUCK

The rear brackets cut down and ready to go for the rear arms.

http://www.mallcrawlin.com/productreviews/claytonlongarms/claytonla073.jpg

Here's a view of all of the bracketry and the front arms looking forward from the rear before we put the rear arms and axle in.

http://www.mallcrawlin.com/productreviews/claytonlongarms/claytonla074.jpg

Notice the missing muffler. Makes it MUCH easier to install the kit if you just hack it off. Turns out the setup I was already running will fit with the kit on, but wouldn't allow us to install the kit!

http://www.mallcrawlin.com/productreviews/claytonlongarms/claytonla075.jpg

http://www.mallcrawlin.com/productreviews/claytonlongarms/claytonla076.jpg

Rear arms in place and ready for the axle

http://www.mallcrawlin.com/productreviews/claytonlongarms/claytonla079.jpg

We decided that the rear lowers were already set to a good length, so we left those where they were and adjusted the uppers as needed to set pinion angle.

Scott (Colorado 5.9) putting the coils back in so we can set everything back on the ground to get our ride height pinion angle.

http://www.mallcrawlin.com/productreviews/claytonlongarms/claytonla082.jpg

Just about ready to go.

http://www.mallcrawlin.com/productreviews/claytonlongarms/claytonla084.jpg

For some stupid reason I forgot to take a pic of the whole thing installed and painted, but I'll take one and post it up soon.

Couple thoughts/notes on the kit:

Attention to detail is evident. The jamb nuts and most of the other nuts with the kit have a Nylock style locking ring in them. One of the things that irked me about my RE control arms was the jamb nut coming loose all of the time. I don't see this happening very much here.

Everything is built VERY well with high quality welds and built to very good tolerances. With a proper installation, this kit should work well for almost anyone.

As always, there's a couple problems I ran into installing the kit. None major and all easily fixed. The only one that really comes to mind is in the instructions it says to re-use the axle end LCA bolts for the frame end UCA's. We found these bolts were a hair too long and had to grind about 1/4" off of them.


And now some tips for anyone looking to install this that may or may not have been already mentioned:

On the driver side rear control arm bracket, be sure to grind off 1/4" or so from the top of the upper control arm tabs so that you can slide your brake and fuel lines back where they belong. I didn't and had to do a very ugly job of plasma cutting them down.

Be prepared. Have LOTS of cutoff wheels and grinding disks ready to go, as well as flap disks for prepping the unibody for welding. I probably went through 15-20 cut off wheels, 5 grinding disks, and 5 flap disks.

Enlist the help of an experienced welder. I can weld "okay" but not excellent by any means. Good penetration and STRONG welds are the key with this install. It's not easy welding thick metal to our pop can unibodies. Most of my welds didn't come out the prettiest, but all appear to have penetrated well, so I'm happy.

If doing the install yourself, be able to have your rig down for days at a time. It took me roughly 10 days to install this kit. Granted there was really only 2.5 solid days of half work and half standing around bullshitting, but don't expect this to take an afternoon. It's a very involved install, but in my opinion the end result is VERY much worth the effort.


I took it out for a couple quick spins tonight and am VERY impressed with how she rides. I'm gonna take her on the highway tomorrow, and then Moab next week, so the updates will keep coming!


Alright, we are back from MOAB!! The long arms performed GREAT. There's still some minor tuning and other issues I need to address but the kit worked VERY well. Climbing ledges and such was a whole lot easier because the axle wasn't crawling backwards under the vehicle ue to the new geometery of the arms. Very smooth ride, soaked up some of the washboards very well and made the baja action much more fun.

Some of the issues I've run into are shocks being too short. I'm running the shocks Rusty sells with his 3" lift kit, and have been running the same shocks for the last 4 years, so they're a little worn and a little short. I didn't have the time before GSW to measure proper stuff and droop and get the right bumpstops and shocks in there but will be doing this shortly. I also need to extend the brake lines up front a bit. In the back, the rear UCA's hit the unibody a couple times too and clearanced the floorboards a bit. With proper bumpstoppage this wouldn't have happened, I just didn't have the time to get all of those details done before GSW but will start working on them now. My shocks were really limiting my flex in the rear, not quite as bad up front.

http://www.mallcrawlin.com/wheelinpics/gsw06/gsw2006285.jpg

Once the longer shocks, bumpstops, and limiting straps are in place I'll post some new flex pics.

JohnBoulderCO
05-09-2006, 02:08 PM
Nice! :D

BigDaveZJ
05-09-2006, 02:09 PM
Oh, and this will be a relatively kamikaze install as I don't have much free time between now and GSW, so if anybody wants to come down and help and/or just stand around and drink beer, you're more than welcome to come down.

Cue-Ball
05-09-2006, 04:50 PM
Clayton's NOW your talking.

death-mobile
05-09-2006, 06:02 PM
Awsome.

Mtn WJ
05-09-2006, 07:23 PM
Dave just let me know when you will be working on it and I will drop by to help.

BigDaveZJ
05-09-2006, 08:30 PM
My goal will be to get the brackets on Sunday May 21st. The arms are on backorder right now, so they might not be in by then. The rears might, but from what Adam said the front ones certainly won't be. I figure getting the brackets on, the rear truss, and the rear arms in should be a pretty quick job.

Too bad there's a huge list of other crap I gotta do too before GSW!

Mtn WJ
05-09-2006, 08:45 PM
Sunday the 21st is open for me. Keep me posted on a start time.

I have a question about the hard arms but will call you later. Are you getting springs as well?

BigDaveZJ
05-09-2006, 09:00 PM
Arms and brackets only. Going to stick with the RE Springs I've got. I get off work like 2 minutes ago, so give me a call.

ILikeMud
05-13-2006, 12:18 AM
Pay for a plane ticket for me to come down and I'll help ya out :D

Can't wait to see pics of the install man.

chadjans
05-15-2006, 11:12 PM
You should have had them ordered and ready for install when I was there last month. I would have leant a hand. I have to redeam my self with a good weld on your rig.

Chad

BigDaveZJ
05-16-2006, 11:49 PM
Brackets showed up today, so the install of the brackets should go as planned this Sunday. I felt like a little kid on Christmas morning when the UPS man showed up today at work and had to rip open the boxes while I was at work. My first impression of this stuff is PURE BEEF!! Totally looking forward to getting the arms and get all of this stuff on!

MarkCO
05-17-2006, 12:03 AM
That's great news Dave, I'm sure a well written Clayton review will go a long way to helping out people who are trying to decide on a lift. I doubt I can be of much help since I'm welding incompetent, but I wouldn't mind dropping by for a beer and a hello.

Besides, you should check out the custom t/c skid plate I had made up for my Clayton cross member. It might give you an idea or two :)

What are you going to run for shocks?

Sudz
05-17-2006, 07:04 AM
pure beef X2 - :D

http://home.comcast.net/~ronhubert/6276.JPG

http://home.comcast.net/~ronhubert/6277.JPG

jsteves
05-19-2006, 02:40 PM
I am soooo pissed, I ordered mine like 1 month before they started powder coating and including the zinc coated joints, oh well.

BigDaveZJ
05-19-2006, 03:26 PM
Just heard from Adam that my arms should be arriving Monday! Going to install all of the bracketry and the rear truss this Sunday. If any of the local folk wanna swing by, shoot me a PM.

SteelCityOffRoad.com
05-19-2006, 11:30 PM
Excellent choice Dave. I have been negotiating a few things out and Clayton Mfg is the next product line we intend to carry at Steel City Off Road. I have seen how well the Clayton kit has held up on Matt's ZJ (and now what is left of it) and I am looking forward to installing the long arm kit on my TJ.

I will be looking forward to reading that review.

-Bill

nate
05-19-2006, 11:47 PM
I didn't realize how close my setup was to Claytons. Is the rear double triangulated?

OverkillZJ
05-19-2006, 11:54 PM
Negative on double triangulated, which is why it allows so much unbinding flex.

nate
05-20-2006, 11:52 AM
Yeah. I'm happy with my setup. I'd like to make my front arms about 8" longer though... should have done it when I set it up, but oh well.

My rears lowers are 46", fronts are only like 33"

ELLLLLIOTTTTT
05-20-2006, 02:06 PM
Yeah. I'm happy with my setup. I'd like to make my front arms about 8" longer though... should have done it when I set it up, but oh well.

My rears lowers are 46", fronts are only like 33"

any pics of your LA setup? I thought you were running the standard clayton kit.

BigDaveZJ
05-21-2006, 08:36 PM
Got the front x-member in and 3/4 of one of the rear mounts before I ran out of wire and energy. Plan on finishing up the brackets tomorrow. I've had a couple little hiccups along the way, I'll go into details when I get pics up, but they're all because my ZJ has been beat to hell and back.

OverkillZJ
05-21-2006, 10:33 PM
I ran out of wire today too, but I keep an extra 12 lb spool :-D

nate
05-21-2006, 11:20 PM
Actually I have a Rock Control setup.


any pics of your LA setup? I thought you were running the standard clayton kit.

chadjans
05-22-2006, 12:45 AM
I ran out of wire today too, but I keep an extra 12 lb spool :-D

Ha, Ha, Ha. That is teeny. Mine are 33 lbs.

Good to hear it is all coming together Dave. I have to replace a rear brake hose and change the diff fluid. :screwy:

Chad

OverkillZJ
05-22-2006, 12:52 AM
Ya I have a nice lil' hobby unit, but it does the job :D

BigDaveZJ
05-22-2006, 05:19 PM
bump for added pics and completion of bracketry install

Cue-Ball
05-22-2006, 05:28 PM
pure beef X2 - :D

http://home.comcast.net/~ronhubert/6276.JPG

http://home.comcast.net/~ronhubert/6277.JPG

Sweet, mine are all just black, not sure if they are powdercoated or just painted, but the I know the joints are black.

Sudz
05-22-2006, 11:13 PM
Sweet, mine are all just black, not sure if they are powdercoated or just painted, but the I know the joints are black.
i think he started to zinc chromate the joints late jan / early feb 06 - i got those arms on 2-26-06

StinkoMan20X6_
05-23-2006, 02:08 PM
Which side does the front upper arm with the angle in it go on? I've finally got my frame rails sleeved the cross member and front arm brackets mounted and will be starting the arms tonight. It's probably obvious but I haven't put them up there to see or anything.

JeepinHank
05-23-2006, 03:33 PM
Which side does the front upper arm with the angle in it go on? I've finally got my frame rails sleeved the cross member and front arm brackets mounted and will be starting the arms tonight. It's probably obvious but I haven't put them up there to see or anything.

I'd guess that it'd go on the drivers side to aid in clearing the differential housing.

jsteves
05-23-2006, 05:32 PM
it does go on the driver side.

StinkoMan20X6_
05-23-2006, 07:24 PM
Sweet!! thanks guys.

zjoe
05-25-2006, 07:35 AM
Cool write up so far. Good pics too!

BigDaveZJ
05-29-2006, 01:13 AM
Front arms are in. Rear truss is welded on. Just need to cut off the rear LCA brackets and slide the axle back under there and bolt it all up.

If only it were that easy . . . . .

My biggest recomendation right now is that if you're planning on axle swap AND Clayton's kit, go ahead and do them both at the same time. The most time consuming thing we did today was cutting the UCA mounts off the 8.8.

Cue-Ball
05-29-2006, 01:21 AM
I agree do axles at the same time if that is your ultimate intention.

Why do you think it is taking me so freakin' long to get my shit finished, I want to do all that at the same time.

BigDaveZJ
06-01-2006, 09:31 PM
Alright, they're in!! Everything's in, painted, greased, tightened, ready to go! Took it for a quick spin around the block and it was a much smoother ride. And somehow the spool is "gentler" now when turning. I'm no physics or geometery wizard so how that works I dunno, but I'm happy about it! Gonna get her up to speed on the highway here in a bit and see how things go there.

Tommy
06-01-2006, 09:37 PM
Nice work. Can't wait to see some pics.

ILikeMud
06-01-2006, 09:43 PM
Awesome.
Can't wait to see some pics.

OverkillZJ
06-01-2006, 09:55 PM
Rear spools and lockers are MUCH more forgiving with long arms. It's the same geometry that makes the ride smoth, when it torques the ride up (same as gas + brake) you now have that larger arc to absorb it.

I am kind of sad your rig will no longer reach it's full articulation in mall parking lots just beause you're turning though, that was SERIOUSLY entertaining!

Kraqa
06-01-2006, 10:27 PM
ya i'l WILL miss the three wheelin commin off the highway.

BigDaveZJ
06-01-2006, 10:38 PM
I should still be able to chuck a spring in Best Buy's parking lot!!!

Funniest thing I ever heard was some guy telling me, "uhhh, there went your spring!"

BigDaveZJ
06-02-2006, 12:27 AM
bump for the writeup on the completed install. See the 2nd post in the thread.

ILikeMud
06-02-2006, 12:44 AM
Very nice write up man.
I can't wait to have some Clayton's under my rig.

Mtn WJ
06-02-2006, 01:03 AM
Good to know your on the road.

Will you be at the meet and greet Friday?

I'll be there. It would be pretty lame if I couldnt make a M and G that is a block from my house.

BigDaveZJ
06-02-2006, 10:45 AM
Good to know your on the road.

Will you be at the meet and greet Friday?

I'll be there. It would be pretty lame if I couldnt make a M and G that is a block from my house.

We'll be there, just not sure when. I'm supposed to work until 7, but am going to try and get out early.

Mtn WJ
06-02-2006, 01:58 PM
I will be there around 6. I may leave early to put on my Drag Link and actually drive a Jeep to a meet and greet for once. I figure if it breaks on the way I will be close to home. Well see.

SCAMPER ZJ
06-03-2006, 01:47 PM
Alright, they're in!!

SWEET!! Nice pics and write-up, can't wait to see you wheel that pig in Moab! :D

BigDaveZJ
06-03-2006, 01:51 PM
For those of you familiar with the Highlands Ranch area of S. Denver, I took the ZJ through Daniels Park last night. It's a semi-maintained dirt/gravel road between Denver and Castle Rock. Wow. VERY smooth ride. I am so stoked and happy with these so far. Now I'm just itching to get them out to Moab and really test them!

OverkillZJ
06-03-2006, 02:07 PM
Ya, I remember your face when you first drove my rig on Claytons long arms. You were like "wait, this is smooth.. cushy.. but flexy... WTF?"

:P

BigDaveZJ
06-03-2006, 02:28 PM
Ya, I remember your face when you first drove my rig on Claytons long arms. You were like "wait, this is smooth.. cushy.. but flexy... WTF?"

:P

Yeah, the ride is amazing. I can only imagine how much better it would be if I wasn't running craptacular Rusty's Hydro shocks that are like 5 years old. New shocks that are proper length are definitely on the list for this summer, and extended brake lines and crap.

And I got the best comment ever on my ZJ at a M&G last night. "Your rig's looking good, it's not as . . . . ghetto."

ELLLLLIOTTTTT
06-03-2006, 02:41 PM
can't wait to see this thing in a couple days. With the LA's does your suspension still reach full compression during sharp turns? :D

BigDaveZJ
06-03-2006, 03:01 PM
can't wait to see this thing in a couple days. With the LA's does your suspension still reach full compression during sharp turns? :D

No. :(

That's the only downfall, LOL.

Cue-Ball
06-03-2006, 09:44 PM
i can not wait til i can say the same thing about my ZJ

x2:smt109 :smt109

ILikeMud
06-03-2006, 09:55 PM
i can not wait til i can say the same thing about my ZJ

x2:smt109 :smt109

x3.
Clayton's or a beater....so hard to decide lol.

AgitatedPancake
06-05-2006, 03:53 AM
get claytons. Do what you want and drive like stock. I just did it with ZERO regrets =P

BigDaveZJ
06-13-2006, 12:53 PM
bump for the moab update

Cue-Ball
06-13-2006, 12:56 PM
Gald it worked out well for you Dave.

zj95maxx
02-15-2007, 10:38 PM
This is making my decision to get clayton that much better! Too bad I only have like 500 bucks or so...


How long did it take to get to you after you orderd, and how much did you pay, shipped

BigDaveZJ
02-16-2007, 01:21 AM
This is making my decision to get clayton that much better! Too bad I only have like 500 bucks or so...


How long did it take to get to you after you orderd, and how much did you pay, shipped

Clayton has the prices listed on his website, not sure what it goes for now. Didn't take long at all to get the stuff, week or two tops IIRC.

cLAYH
01-13-2008, 03:47 PM
How big of a tire can you run with Claytons kit, 7" coils and minor trimming? Anyone know offhand what length shocks they are using? Thanks.

ILikeMud
01-13-2008, 04:15 PM
7" of lift and you can fit some 37-38 inch tires if you trim and move the axles around.

Lardo Chicken
03-02-2008, 05:15 PM
How much lift do you have on the completed pics in Moab? Looks like maybe 5" ..??

BigDaveZJ
03-02-2008, 06:01 PM
How much lift do you have on the completed pics in Moab? Looks like maybe 5" ..??

RE 3.5" coils up front with factory isolators, RE 3.5" coils out back with 2" pucks, no isolators. Have since added 3/4" pucks to the front to clear 35's. It's pretty easy to run into clearance issues that low.

grandmaster
08-02-2008, 03:27 AM
I started getting everything ready to install on mine today (just doing the rear) and when i held up the brackets that mount on the unibody...well i ran into a problem, but could probably be easily fixed. My rock sliders from rocky road are right in the way, and i mean the whole plate, should i just cut the bracket off the slider, weld the bracket up for the LA, then weld the slider back to the bracket for the LA? If that makes sense ha ha

BigDaveZJ
08-02-2008, 09:12 AM
I had the same issue, only on the pass side though which I thought was strange. The RRO rails were probably a bit off. Anyways, I notched a little out of the Clayton bracket and the RRO bracket to make it fit.

grandmaster
08-02-2008, 11:07 PM
Yeah i saw that in the write up, but mine isnt just a notch, i would have to cut off one whole side of my bracket, so i will just have to cut the plate off my slider or something.

FortCollinsZJ
10-06-2008, 02:12 AM
I just got my Claytons front arms put on a few months ago... But mine don't have nylock jamb nuts for the control arms... Just regular nuts, and they get loose FAST! and rattle around and drive me nuts. Thats odd they aren't in the kit anymore?

ArloGuthroJeep
10-06-2008, 09:50 AM
Did you contact them? I got mine back in June and they had them...and they should have them. They need them.

SirFuego
10-06-2008, 10:09 AM
This is a question out of curiosity more than anything...

How many of you do not have issues with the rear uppers contacting the floor boards when flexing? Everyone I talk to seems to have this problem, but it was never an issue for me (even without shocks or bumpstops). So I'm trying to figure out why my uppers don't hit and others do. My setup is a 93ZJ, 4.5" springs, 8.8 rear with Clayton's hi clearance brackets.

zj95maxx
10-06-2008, 10:21 AM
Mine don't either

canadian_driver
10-06-2008, 10:36 AM
This is a question out of curiosity more than anything...

How many of you do not have issues with the rear uppers contacting the floor boards when flexing? Everyone I talk to seems to have this problem, but it was never an issue for me (even without shocks or bumpstops). So I'm trying to figure out why my uppers don't hit and others do. My setup is a 93ZJ, 4.5" springs, 8.8 rear with Clayton's hi clearance brackets.

i got some nice dents in my floor from the upper arms.

ive got a question aswell for everyone, thoes who have limiting straps in the rear what length did you go with?

FortCollinsZJ
10-06-2008, 01:11 PM
Ooops! I edited my last post, the kit came with jamb nuts, just not NYLOCK nuts, therefor they get loose very fast. I wonder if they don't use the nylock ones anymore?

ATL ZJ
10-06-2008, 01:16 PM
Might be a cost thing. You could always just use some blue locktite on them. Or a dab of red. Or get some nylocks from fastenal or grainger or mcmaster. Or call clayton.

FortCollinsZJ
10-06-2008, 01:22 PM
I was thinking about using a second jamb nut.... or a lock washer?

ArloGuthroJeep
10-06-2008, 02:36 PM
So you have a jamb nut or you don't? If it came loose, you tighten it. This time with a bigger wrench;)

SirFuego
10-06-2008, 04:24 PM
ive got a question aswell for everyone, thoes who have limiting straps in the rear what length did you go with?

I can't remember the length, but I would first figure out how you are going to mount them. Mine were measured so that the limit strap maxed out just before the spring unseated. The spring now unseats a little bit from the straps stretching.

EDIT: Here is a pic of how my rear limit straps mount to the body
http://www.wnyoffroad.org/thegallery/data/media/18/DSC00264.JPG

FortCollinsZJ
10-07-2008, 12:30 AM
Ryan, this is the second time you have commented on me not being able to get a nut/bolt tight. You come do it :rofl:

It only comes loose from mad vibrations, IE a rocky trail that I speed through, or I25 north of Denver... it never comes loose on DD, just very fast bumps. I use a big ass pipe wrench to get it tight and it still rattles loose!

Ds4x4
01-05-2009, 08:31 PM
I have a question on how you centered the Truss on the rear axle.. I'm between this and the TnT customs.. Anyways this is what the directions say.

Remove the rear axle from the vehicle. If the tires are left on it makes it easy to handle and work on. 33) Remove the upper control arm mounts and grind the axle tubes smooth.

Weld the vent tube and brake line clip holes closed and grind smooth.

Center the prick punch or scribe mark on the rear of the truss on the axle. Make your measurements from the rim or brake assembly. Don't use the differential housing as a reference point.

Next line the truss up parallel to the differential cover-mount.

Tack weld into place in four places on both legs of the truss.



where do you measure to from the ends of the tube/inside of the rotor area? and how do you use the pumpkin to get your front to back angle? I'm trying to think this through if we can do this here or i should just bite the bullet and go to Claytons and get them to do it.

BigDaveZJ
01-05-2009, 08:34 PM
Doesn't really matter where you measure from, as long as you measure from the same place on both sides. As for the front to back, line up the truss on the same plane where the diff cover meets the diff.

Ds4x4
01-05-2009, 08:40 PM
ok, thats what i was thinking... Did your bumpstops solve the problem of hitting the floor pan with the rear UCA? I might have missed it but what kind of welder did you use?

BigDaveZJ
01-05-2009, 08:58 PM
My floor pan is thoroughly beat up by the uppers. Used a Miller 175.

Ds4x4
01-05-2009, 10:51 PM
Do you think that a Lincoln Arc Welder SA-200 4cyl diesel trailer would be a little much for this job? Actually have one available to play with :)

FortCollinsZJ
01-17-2009, 07:18 PM
Nebish question:

Can I use my rear swaybar with claytons uppers? Right now the swaybar is out, needs to go back in, and my last 2 arms (rear uppers) will be here monday or tuesday.

Varkyl
01-19-2009, 10:50 AM
Nebish question:

Can I use my rear swaybar with claytons uppers? Right now the swaybar is out, needs to go back in, and my last 2 arms (rear uppers) will be here monday or tuesday.

The factory rear swaybar will not work with the Clayton's Hardarms. The upper arms would hit the bar. And I am not sure if the links would have clearance either.
One option is to use a TJ rear swaybar as it mounts to the axle. With that you would need to fab up some upper link mounts and links.

MotoX5874
01-19-2009, 04:44 PM
so i am set on clayton's when i go to long arms.

it seems he converted to a 7" lift from 5.5" for zj's? why is this? from what i've gathered, i want to stay as low as possible...i plan to just run 35s

SirFuego
01-19-2009, 05:51 PM
Keeping it low is the main reason most people keep it around 4.5"-5.5" lift for 35s.

I may have already posted this in the thread, but I'm too lazy to look. When I got my kit last April/May, there was no real difference in price between the complete 7" kit and buying everything separately. So essentially you can get the complete kit minus the springs for the cost of the complete kit minus the springs.

Ds4x4
01-19-2009, 06:35 PM
So essentially you can get the complete kit minus the springs for the cost of the complete kit minus the springs.


what?:smt017

MotoX5874
01-19-2009, 09:07 PM
what?:smt017
he's suggesting i buy the kit minus the springs and just buy shorter springs :smt042

SirFuego
01-20-2009, 01:06 AM
Yes, it sounds obvious, but what I was getting at is that you don't save anything by getting the complete kit versus piecing everything together -- so there is no sense buying the complete kit if you don't need everything in it...

O'Tool
01-22-2009, 01:10 AM
I concur.
I got the same lift on mine... I got the kit minus the springs and bought RE 4.5" springs...
I have the height I want without buying anything I don't need.

Bama_WJ
02-18-2009, 12:55 AM
Any problems with getting belly hung on the transfer case since you don't have a skid plate?

OverkillZJ
02-18-2009, 01:19 AM
Uh, put a skid plate on.

MoonWorks
02-18-2009, 01:27 AM
Yeah, clayton now offers a skid plate that is a great addition to his kit. Maybe O'tool will post a pic of his. He got a claytons kit from me a couple months ago along with claytons belly skid! I know he's used it!!! :)

zj95
02-18-2009, 01:54 AM
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y168/zj95/claytons/100_0189.jpg
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y168/zj95/claytons/100_0188.jpg
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y168/zj95/claytons/100_0186.jpg
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y168/zj95/claytons/100_0185.jpg
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y168/zj95/claytons/100_0184.jpg

SirFuego
02-18-2009, 09:50 AM
Long spans of unreinforced metal plate bends -- even 1/4". It's sorta tough to see in this picture, but my Clayton's skid is bowed upwards -- to the point where it's touching my tcase. I'm hoping to take it to a buddy's shop to press it back out and reinforce it.
http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p302/SirFuego/Photo_09-1.jpg

Joe Lynch
12-02-2009, 02:59 PM
Out of curiosity since mine is also my daily. Can you actually weld the brakets (front and rear) and the reinforcements while retaining the stock suspension? It would save me from being down a vehicle for 2 weeks. Thanks.

Technohead
12-02-2009, 03:18 PM
Out of curiosity since mine is also my daily. Can you actually weld the brakets (front and rear) and the reinforcements while retaining the stock suspension? It would save me from being down a vehicle for 2 weeks. Thanks.Yes. I drove around for several weeks with the brackets welded on (including the crossmember!) and the stock (well, RE) suspension.

jfowlzj95
12-02-2009, 03:40 PM
x2 on yes you can. I had my brackets welded on for about a month or so until I finally started building the longarms.

canadian_driver
12-02-2009, 07:25 PM
can you fit the rear truss on with the upper control arm brackets?

Joe Lynch
12-02-2009, 07:45 PM
thanks guys. You rock!

Technohead
12-03-2009, 12:19 AM
can you fit the rear truss on with the upper control arm brackets?No.

canadian_driver
12-03-2009, 10:06 AM
i didn't think so, but i couldn't remember

locked and loaded zj
01-04-2010, 01:52 AM
Ive got the same kit and love it!
http://i698.photobucket.com/albums/vv345/jasonalexander/11-20-09002.jpg
http://i698.photobucket.com/albums/vv345/jasonalexander/11-20-09003.jpg
http://i698.photobucket.com/albums/vv345/jasonalexander/11-20-09005.jpg

97limitedzj
04-09-2010, 02:03 PM
Hey guys what can be done to prevent or install the kit so it doesnt mangle your floor pan?

BigDaveZJ
04-09-2010, 03:11 PM
Bumpstops.

SirFuego
04-09-2010, 03:44 PM
Cut out the part of the floor pan that gets hit...

Technohead
04-09-2010, 04:17 PM
It only mangles them once. :)

But seriously, I dropped my bumpstops 3" (more like 2 3/4") and at full compression the upper arms are not quite touching the floor pan. I suppose actual results also depend on your rear axle. For example, with a 14 bolt . . .

97limitedzj
04-12-2010, 12:38 PM
okay cool ill just have to get my bumpstops the correct length then!

BigDaveZJ
01-06-2011, 07:24 PM
It's in need of new bushings in a couple spots, but other than that the kit has been awesome.

jsteves
01-06-2011, 09:21 PM
I think I have yet to hear someone unhappy with claytons

Crasher
01-07-2011, 11:04 AM
The Clayton kit in our ZJ rides and works so well that next winter when we come back down to AZ, we're leaving our well built JKU Rubicon in the garage and bringing the ZJ. People can't believe what it can do. The ride and comfort are also better.

OverkillZJ
01-07-2011, 04:18 PM
Hey guys what can be done to prevent or install the kit so it doesnt mangle your floor pan?

I just let it "self clear" :D

It mangled up what's under the rear seats, but what's it matter? Was a noisy process but when it was done, no more banging. On the next build I'm using the same Calyt's kit on, I'm going to bang the floor up first with a BFH.

dyn0mitemat
04-03-2012, 08:23 PM
Sorry for bumping an old thread, but I figured it'd be better than making a new one.

I've searched around and couldn't find anything.

Does anyone know what angle the upper arms in the claytons rear come off of the frame brackets?

I'm copying this kit, and have the axle all about done minus the upper link mounts needing welded on the truss and frame brackets. I mocked it up, and found they're right around 22.5*, which is about half of what I need according to what I read. I know the claytons kit doesn't fall under the 'perfect' conditions as far as link geometry, but that it does work well. So I was wondering if I was in an accecptable range or if I needed to push the frame mount for them towards the axle some.

My lowers will be 38-40"ish, depending on where the axle ends up in the wheel well, and the uppers I'm currently figuring out.

Thanks in advance for any help.
And a BIG THANKS for the writeup, as I used A TON of it for fabbing up what I have. :D

BigDaveZJ
04-03-2012, 09:05 PM
Good luck getting exact info like that to blatantly copy a kit.

Sent from my T-Mobile G2 using Tapatalk

dyn0mitemat
04-03-2012, 09:33 PM
Guess I better just quit while I'm ahead and sell the jeep then seeing as I'm copying everyone else lifting it and throwing bigger tires under it :o

I'm just asking for a few specs man, chill out. It's not like I'm doing this to sell kits. If I had the cash I would buy it, but I don't, so I do the next best thing.

Ken L
04-03-2012, 10:21 PM
Then do the next best thing and search out a link calculator and figure it out.

dyn0mitemat
04-03-2012, 10:33 PM
Thats what I'm working on, like I said everyone's saying to aim for 40*ish but I don't see how the hell thats possible with the uppers mounted right above the lowers (frameside)

IndyZJ
04-04-2012, 10:12 AM
Thats what I'm working on, like I said everyone's saying to aim for 40*ish but I don't see how the hell thats possible with the uppers mounted right above the lowers (frameside)

This really isn't that difficult if you are competent enough to be designing and building your vehicle's suspension. It's not going to happen with single-triangulated long arms on a ZJ. That means significantly higher loads on the joints/ mounts, but it apparently works well enough for the kit. You'll have much better results overall with a double triangulated setup like your future sig suggests you intended to do anyway. Search for more info rather than cluttering up a thread.

squazz
04-15-2012, 02:40 PM
Quick question im in the middle of installing the shock conversion now how much weld is run around it?

squazz
04-16-2012, 09:13 AM
we decided to weld it in the corners and one along the center

http://i1102.photobucket.com/albums/g447/liltes/FILE0026-1.jpg

just1more19
06-01-2012, 11:08 AM
Geez whats up with all these hackers!