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View Full Version : allingnment thread- what are you using?



luvthejeep
03-01-2006, 11:41 PM
well with all the axle swaps and what not im intrested to see what everyone is using for alignment paramaters? stock zj? stock for the axle donor? what are you guys running with swaped axles?

TrojanMan
03-02-2006, 02:58 AM
back of tire vs front of tire?:butthead:

ELLLLLIOTTTTT
03-02-2006, 03:23 AM
about 1/8" toe in. it may wear the tires a little bit but they are rotated relgiously.

Krash80
03-02-2006, 03:35 AM
i do my alignments by taking the wheels off, clamping a 1x1x36" square aluminum tube to each brake rotor, and then adjusting the tie rod for about a 1/4" of difference between the front and back measurements on the aluminum tube (ie. 64 5/8" back, 64 3/8" front).

gearhead313
03-02-2006, 10:06 AM
meiasuring tape and yard sticks. 1/8" toe out

fr3db3ar
03-02-2006, 11:38 AM
meiasuring tape and yard sticks. 1/8" toe out

1/8" toe in is appropriate.

TrojanMan
03-02-2006, 01:27 PM
I have mine slightly toed out too, except mine is done on a real alignment machine because I have hookups:smt032

rob92xj
03-02-2006, 03:09 PM
I do my own alignment on a Hunter alignment rack. I usually use the vehicle it is on.

nate
03-02-2006, 08:04 PM
I did was Krash did. I put maybe 2000 miles a year on the Jeep, most of that is on trails, so as long as it's fairly close, I'm not worried about it.

ZJchad801
03-02-2006, 08:51 PM
here is a ? On my ZJ my caster is on the left is 6.2 degrees and on the right it is 6.6 degrees normal specs say caster should be between 6.5 degrees and 7.0 degrees

there is a 3 inch taraflex lift w/ RE adjustable arms and adj. procomp track bar

the jeep is pulling to the right as i hold the wheel strait

would the caster cause it to pull if it varies from .4

fr3db3ar
03-02-2006, 10:20 PM
I didn't think Caster was adjustable on our jeeps......I better go look at the book again.

OverkillZJ
03-02-2006, 10:29 PM
i do my alignments by taking the wheels off, clamping a 1x1x36" square aluminum tube to each brake rotor, and then adjusting the tie rod for about a 1/4" of difference between the front and back measurements on the aluminum tube (ie. 64 5/8" back, 64 3/8" front).

Exactly what I do, those alignments got me 17,000 on MTR's that had a good 60% tread by the time i sold them.

ZJchad801
03-03-2006, 12:52 AM
I didn't think Caster was adjustable on our jeeps......I better go look at the book again.

from what my book says. You can change the Caster useing the Cam bolt and cam washer.

looking at the Haynes manual section 10-21

OverkillZJ
03-03-2006, 02:26 AM
Casters adjustible to the extent that you're rotating the whole axle including pinion angle, not just the knuckles/tires.

fr3db3ar
03-03-2006, 07:56 AM
hmmm I was thinking that was camber....oh well... I'll go back to my nap :smt020

To answer the question then........adjustable arms :)

luvthejeep
03-03-2006, 09:08 AM
my camber is way out of whack on my d44- are you guys running factory camber settings?

OverkillZJ
03-03-2006, 10:13 AM
i could have the names mixed up, wouldn't be the first time. I'll see if I can dig the old thread up that explained what was what really well. Since mine is mostly (well now ALL trail rig) I was only concerned with toe in and pinion angle really.

fr3db3ar
03-03-2006, 10:33 AM
No you were correct....Although I think it would have made more sense for the "cam" bolt to adjust "camber" :-D

castor is front to rear
camber is top in and out.

Krash80
03-03-2006, 11:44 AM
my camber is way out of whack on my d44- are you guys running factory camber settings?

Factory camber settings...yes, but it took putting new tubes in the diff and rotating the knuckles to get those factory settings and still have the driveshaft point at the diff like it's supposed to.

doyll
03-03-2006, 06:28 PM
It's not uncommon for caster to be different from one side to the other. Mostly factory tolerance, but also for tracking on crown of road. Same applies to camber.

You can use offset ball joints to change caster and/or camber if needed. They come in .5, 1, & 1.5 degree offset, so you can get up to 3 degree change using them in both upper and lower. But they are not cheap in the $90 each range.

Good luck!

Lloyd

gearhead313
03-03-2006, 07:26 PM
If you have your rig lifted a signifigant amount and you adjust for the pinion angle, you can do nothing about caster. I wouldn't even worry about it.


...and toe out, not toe in

AgitatedPancake
03-03-2006, 07:49 PM
If you have your rig lifted a signifigant amount and you adjust for the pinion angle, you can do nothing about caster. I wouldn't even worry about it.


...and toe out, not toe in

Caster is pretty important on the road though man. It is the angle that creates the force to bring your steering wheel back to center. If its significantly off one way or another it could put alot of extra stress on the tie rod AND make it harder to move the steering wheel while driving. Or it could give you play in the steering, and if you get close to 0*, the steering wheel wont come back to center on its own. I WOULD worry about caster (if you can, and its not a dedicated trail rig)

doyll
03-03-2006, 08:05 PM
Normally, with 4" of lift and pinion aligned so there is no driveshaft vibration, the loss of caster does not cause a detrimental effect on steering. If it does, get the appropriate offset ball joints to correct it.

Good Luck!

Lloyd

nate
03-03-2006, 08:32 PM
6-7* caster is ideal. 0.120-.25 toe in ideal. You want them to be toe in a bit, not toe out!

doyll
03-03-2006, 10:05 PM
here is a ? On my ZJ my caster is on the left is 6.2 degrees and on the right it is 6.6 degrees normal specs say caster should be between 6.5 degrees and 7.0 degrees

there is a 3 inch taraflex lift w/ RE adjustable arms and adj. procomp track bar

the jeep is pulling to the right as i hold the wheel strait

would the caster cause it to pull if it varies from .4
Have you had it 4 way aligned? Often the cause of your problem is rear axle is not aligned parallel to front and a perfect 90 to frame. This causes it to 'steer' the front left or right and you have to correct the steering wheel to go straight. In your case, right side of your rear axle is closer to front then left side. This causes you to have to steer left to go straight.

Good luck!

RUYellow
03-05-2006, 12:30 AM
I measured my front axle sitting on jack stands, nothing connected. It measured more than 1 degree difference side to side.

I cut the tubes, rotated and sleeved to put the castor at 6deg with the pinion pointed at the TC.

gearhead313
03-05-2006, 12:20 PM
always toe out



I will fight you to the death

nate
03-05-2006, 02:58 PM
Toe In. I worked in a shop doing this stuff, I do know a bit about alignments.

Krash80
03-05-2006, 03:02 PM
always toe out



and your reasoning behind this is.....???

gearhead313
03-05-2006, 06:25 PM
I am chrysler certified, 2 years associates, 3 years dealer experience, 4 years independent.

I have fixed death wobble on 3 vehicles, all 36" tires or bigger by simply toeing them out. Usually this is with new lifts or after someone has modified the suspension. When you lift, a factory zero setting is moved toe in b/c the drag link point on the center link is rased up, decreasing that distance, hence toe in.

Every one I've done including my own zj, i've toe'd out and cured the death wobble. Toe in will cause the tires to fight for their line and cause a wiggle effect that usually leads to death wobble on a lifted rig.

Toe out will take that away and give the steering a more smooth feel when turning. Too much will cause a wandering effect when driving.

luvthejeep
03-06-2006, 12:35 AM
hers a nice read about the termnology and effects of allignment adjustments-

http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tiretech/techpage.jsp?techid=4

gearhead313
03-06-2006, 10:03 AM
The problem with applying the toe issue from that article to our solid front axle setup is that they are refering to an independent front suspension when they say:

"Tire rolling resistance causes a little drag resulting in rearward movement of the suspension arms against their bushings."

With a solid front axle, I would venture to guess that the caster will change more than toe based on tirerack's explanation.

ZJchad801
03-06-2006, 05:41 PM
Have you had it 4 way aligned? Often the cause of your problem is rear axle is not aligned parallel to front and a perfect 90 to frame. This causes it to 'steer' the front left or right and you have to correct the steering wheel to go straight. In your case, right side of your rear axle is closer to front then left side. This causes you to have to steer left to go straight.

Good luck!

Thanks for the help
back to my allingnment shop to get what i payed for

doyll
03-06-2006, 08:16 PM
Thanks for the help
back to my allingnment shop to get what i payed for
Get a print out of the alignment and let us know what it says. That way we can see if they really do align the rearend properly. Rear end has caster and toe too. To correct them, axle tubes may need to be bent or a new rear carrier put in. Bending is a normal alignment proceedure on heavy trucks with solid axles.

A buddy with a Honda was in a parking lot front fender bender, but rear bounced across a pothole. It was repaired and pulled. Alignment sheet showed rear end was out. Left side 0 toe in, right side had 1/8", and it was pulling right. They told him it was correct. I explained to him it was pulling right because rear end was tracking left of frontend. Once he understood what I was saying, he went back to them and showed them. They re-aligned it and still didn't get it right. Said they couldn't get it.. Had to get insurance adjuster to authorize a replacement arm and guess what? Then they finally got it right! No more pulling.