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Troy
01-17-2006, 10:41 PM
I'll soon be installing my full hydro steering. As I prepare for the installation, a few questions arise...

For anyone currently running a PSC p-pump conversion kit on a I-6 ZJ, what length serpentine are you running? If it comes down to it I'll measure once it's on and go from there but it's nice to have the belt before beginning.

Now the more difficult question. I'm running a Parker Hydraguide orbital with steering coulmn adapter SKF000780400 that lists as 7/8" X 36 spline. I need to somehow connect this to my existing stock steering column. The stock spud shaft seems much smaller than the parker column. Does anyone know the stock spud shaft size and have any ideas on how to connect the steering column to the bigger spud shaft on the orbital (other than permananet means like welding)?

Troy
01-17-2006, 11:15 PM
Basically I need something like the solid coupler pictured here only for 7/8" X 36. Then I can do a hack and weld on my steering column...

http://www.rockstomper.com/catalog/steering/hydroacc.htm

Anyone know of any sources?

Kraqa
01-18-2006, 03:41 AM
i'd make a new shaft. use one end frm the Stock ZJ and the other for the orbital.

Tommy
01-18-2006, 11:07 AM
Troy


When I ordered my setup from Crawltech, they set me up with a the correct size spud shaft adapter, I hope. I can get you the part number for that one if you would like. We will trying to put this together this weekend. I have the same question about the serpintine belt as well, because the PSC pump pulley is a bit smaller.

Troy
01-18-2006, 11:56 AM
Troy


When I ordered my setup from Crawltech, they set me up with a the correct size spud shaft adapter, I hope. I can get you the part number for that one if you would like. We will trying to put this together this weekend. I have the same question about the serpintine belt as well, because the PSC pump pulley is a bit smaller.

Yeah, get me the part number if you can. I'm calling the plave I got the steering column from to see what they've been recommending.

I'm more worried about the spacing of the p-pump conversion kit. Does the kit space the pump/pulley out farther than stock? Also, can you remove the pulley from the p-pump and the stock and swap them? That'll give the same size as stock but once againt the spacing may come into play.

Troy
01-18-2006, 01:45 PM
I spoke with PSC. What they do is machine the Parker steering column to be 3/4" 30 spline which will connect right up to the stock Jeep steering column. This seems to be the easiest thing to do. Wish I knew that when I bought the steering column last year but there weren't many shops providing full hydro setups then.

TJeeper
01-18-2006, 03:10 PM
I'm more worried about the spacing of the p-pump conversion kit. Does the kit space the pump/pulley out farther than stock? Also, can you remove the pulley from the p-pump and the stock and swap them? That'll give the same size as stock but once againt the spacing may come into play.

I am unsure of the ZJ, but on TJs you need about 3 inches forward of the pump and about 6 inches towards the driver's side to fit the p-pump in. This requires either swapping in a smaller coolent overflow reservoir, or modifiying the existing one. It also requires swapping in a new window washer fluid reservoir or moving the pumps. Here is a write up to get you started:

http://www.nakedjeep.com/Projects/PSC/PSCpump01.html

The pulley should be the same as stock, you would have to ask PSC to confirm. I have a PSC TC pump, and I was going to put my stock pulley on it, until I pulled it apart trying to press it off. I used a stock replacement. The p-pump moves the pulley to a new location, so you will need a new belt no matter what.

Are you set on the p-pump? I thought about it, and ended up with a hi-flow TC pump. I know some guys in CA who run a Howe Performance TC pump, with hydro assist and hydroboost with no complaints. Give them a call and ask about the "Blaine special" pump and see what they have to say. FWIW I am using the Howe reservoir, swapped it out from the PSC one I was using before, I think it is a better design.

Troy
01-18-2006, 07:04 PM
I am unsure of the ZJ, but on TJs you need about 3 inches forward of the pump and about 6 inches towards the driver's side to fit the p-pump in. This requires either swapping in a smaller coolent overflow reservoir, or modifiying the existing one. It also requires swapping in a new window washer fluid reservoir or moving the pumps. Here is a write up to get you started:

http://www.nakedjeep.com/Projects/PSC/PSCpump01.html

The pulley should be the same as stock, you would have to ask PSC to confirm. I have a PSC TC pump, and I was going to put my stock pulley on it, until I pulled it apart trying to press it off. I used a stock replacement. The p-pump moves the pulley to a new location, so you will need a new belt no matter what.

Are you set on the p-pump? I thought about it, and ended up with a hi-flow TC pump. I know some guys in CA who run a Howe Performance TC pump, with hydro assist and hydroboost with no complaints. Give them a call and ask about the "Blaine special" pump and see what they have to say. FWIW I am using the Howe reservoir, swapped it out from the PSC one I was using before, I think it is a better design.

I have had the PSC P-pump for about a year now (not installed obviously) so the Howe is out of the question. I have done a conical air filter conversion to free up a bunch of driver side space. Thanks for the info. I'll be installing everything the first weekend in Feb. And I'll post pics if I remember to take them.

Tommy
01-18-2006, 08:50 PM
No to mention the the punp that I recieved from CRAWLTECH bolts in the stock location. TJeeper, just curious where yours moved to? That is why I was curious about the pulley. When I pull off the stock one this weekend I will compare the two. And here is the part number of the Eaton Char-l-ynn that I have 204-1002-006.

JpRngr
01-19-2006, 02:58 AM
Did your P Pump conversion kits not come with a belt? Mine did when I got mine a year or two ago. No longer have the Jeep, so I can't get you a part number.

Corey

Troy
01-19-2006, 11:02 AM
Did your P Pump conversion kits not come with a belt? Mine did when I got mine a year or two ago. No longer have the Jeep, so I can't get you a part number.

Corey

Nope.

TJeeper
01-19-2006, 07:36 PM
TJeeper, just curious where yours moved to?

Nowhere. I have a TC pump, bolts in the stock location.

Tommy
01-20-2006, 12:05 PM
Maybe I just misunderstood your post then.

"The p-pump moves the pulley to a new location, so you will need a new belt no matter what."


I didn't understand how the pulley moved to another location when the pump bolted up as does a stock one. But come to think of it, without the res. on the pump now it probably does.

JpRngr
01-21-2006, 03:50 AM
The p-pump is actually moved further out from the heads and block because of it's size. It has a bracket that mounts in the stock location and locates the pump further out. Hence the reason for the new belt.
After thinking about it now, I realise I didn't actually get a new belt with my kit. I re-used the old belt but w/o the A/C comp. I always figured that if I ever put the comp back on for OBA, I would just figure out the size difference for belts on engines with and w/o A/C, and add the difference to the A/C belt length I was using.
Also, on a side note, if you're installing this kit on a V8(like I did), some modification will need to be done to the mounting bracket. You will also need to use PSC's Ford SuperDuty pulley. The V8 pulley is 7 rib and the one in the kit is 6 rib. The SD pulley is 8 rib, but can be lined up to work.

Corey

Tommy
01-23-2006, 11:00 AM
We got the ram mounted and pump installed. Everything is just about done. I did notcie that the PSC pump pulley was much smaller (abouit 1") and was missing a rib on the pulley. But my pump did not come with a relocation bracket. it mounts in the stock location. I put the stock pulley on the PSC pum p and my belt lined up just like stock. I know the pump wont work as efficently with the stock pulley as it is a larger diameter, but do you guys think It will be fine to run it and see how it behaves? I need to take some pics. We were really surprised on how smooth the install went. Mounted my orbital around where the original steering box was located. And with the adapter it mated perfectly with the stock steering shaft. Looks like they forgot the fitting in my kit which goes from the resevoir to the orbital, so I am going to get one made from a local shop here. Other than that we just have some more plumbing to do and finish up the small push bar and skid for the ram.

Troy
01-23-2006, 12:42 PM
We got the ram mounted and pump installed. Everything is just about done. I did notcie that the PSC pump pulley was much smaller (abouit 1") and was missing a rib on the pulley. But my pump did not come with a relocation bracket. it mounts in the stock location. I put the stock pulley on the PSC pum p and my belt lined up just like stock. I know the pump wont work as efficently with the stock pulley as it is a larger diameter, but do you guys think It will be fine to run it and see how it behaves? I need to take some pics. We were really surprised on how smooth the install went. Mounted my orbital around where the original steering box was located. And with the adapter it mated perfectly with the stock steering shaft. Looks like they forgot the fitting in my kit which goes from the resevoir to the orbital, so I am going to get one made from a local shop here. Other than that we just have some more plumbing to do and finish up the small push bar and skid for the ram.

:worthles:

Tommy
01-23-2006, 01:10 PM
I know. Saturday I promise. I will be out of town the rest of the week and wont have a chance to get pics till I go back up to the shop.

Troy
01-23-2006, 01:55 PM
I know. Saturday I promise. I will be out of town the rest of the week and wont have a chance to get pics till I go back up to the shop.

Cool. I'm installing mine the first weekend in Feb.

Tommy
01-23-2006, 02:53 PM
Just FYI. What i got from PSC.

The pulley will work fine and you should be able to find that fitting at any hydraulic shop
Let me know if you have any problems.
Kelvin
PSC Motorsports

JpRngr
01-23-2006, 04:20 PM
Hey Tommy, are you sure you got the "P" pump conversion? Cause it's a lot bigger pump and won't mount in the stock location without the additional bracket, at least not on the V8. My guess is you got the hipo TC pump.

Corey

Troy
01-23-2006, 05:50 PM
Just FYI. What i got from PSC.

The pulley will work fine and you should be able to find that fitting at any hydraulic shop
Let me know if you have any problems.
Kelvin
PSC Motorsports

Thanks, we we have a power steering pump puller and were thinking of using it if necessary to swap the pulleys. I have all of the fittings I need so I should be good there. Are you not installing a cooler in between the orbital output and the return to the pump? Make sure that your orbital does not get hot because it will fail.

Tommy
01-23-2006, 06:03 PM
I didn't put in a cooler. We will see how it does, i can always add one. I had asked PSC about a fitting on the bottom of the resevoir . They forgot it in my kit. Corey, you may be right. I saw the differnce on the PSC website. This is what crawltech sold me, in the kit.

Tommy
01-29-2006, 02:13 AM
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y124/Tommy_M/hydrosteer003.jpg

Here are the pics. excuse my wiring for my rocklights and ARB. I had to move a few things around and need to clean it uop a bit. We plan on also plating some of the skid for the ram.


http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y124/Tommy_M/hydrosteer001.jpg

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y124/Tommy_M/hydrosteer002.jpg

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y124/Tommy_M/hydrosteer004.jpg

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y124/Tommy_M/hydrosteer005.jpg

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y124/Tommy_M/hydrosteer006.jpg


http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y124/Tommy_M/hydrosteer007.jpg


http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y124/Tommy_M/hydrosteer009.jpg

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y124/Tommy_M/hydrosteer010.jpg

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y124/Tommy_M/hydrosteer011.jpg



http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y124/Tommy_M/hydrosteer012.jpg

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y124/Tommy_M/hydrosteer013.jpg

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y124/Tommy_M/hydrosteer014.jpg

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y124/Tommy_M/hydrosteer015.jpg

Tommy
01-29-2006, 02:23 AM
What a fucking difference, this thing has the turning radius of my old 3 series beamer. It takes some getting used to when driving it, way easy to over correct. I see myself driving this thing to the grocery store to get some toilet paper and beer. Maybe...

nate
01-29-2006, 02:47 AM
Need to paint all that stuff before it turns to rust!

Troy
01-29-2006, 10:29 AM
Looks good. I can see that you have much less space to work with than I will with my I-6 with no air filter box. Didn't know that you were doing a double ended ram. I'll be setting up a single.

OverkillZJ
01-29-2006, 11:28 AM
Mind hinting at what the whole setup ended up costing?

My full hydro is the one thing I haven't planned for the buggy yet... but turning 42's, I don't really have a choice.

ogdak
01-29-2006, 11:38 AM
Looks good Tommy,
@OverkillZJ, going to a Gym is not an option?

OverkillZJ
01-29-2006, 12:05 PM
@OverkillZJ, going to a Gym is not an option?

Right, because me going to a gym is going to make my steering column stronger.:smt021

ogdak
01-29-2006, 12:10 PM
Ah, did not realize you are already that muscular.

OverkillZJ
01-29-2006, 12:11 PM
Doesn't take that much strength to bend a steering shaft: I learned that last year!

Tommy
01-29-2006, 01:08 PM
Need to paint all that stuff before it turns to rust!


I know. I have a shit load of painting to do. After TDS it will be coming apart to do the painting.

Tommy
01-29-2006, 01:13 PM
Mind hinting at what the whole setup ended up costing?

My full hydro is the one thing I haven't planned for the buggy yet... but turning 42's, I don't really have a choice.


If I remember correctly it was around $1300, this included the ram , pump, pulley, all fittings, resevoir, lines. And then around $200 more for the heims bungs, nuts, bolts, and washers for tie rods. Expensive. You could probably get the shit for way cheaper if you piece it together your self. I didn't have the time to mess with finding all the crap, so I just went to crawltech and bought it all from them. No more bump steer of course and I really need sway bars. Had up to about 40 mph, no balls to go faster, until I get the feel for it.

Troy
01-29-2006, 06:45 PM
Mind hinting at what the whole setup ended up costing?

My full hydro is the one thing I haven't planned for the buggy yet... but turning 42's, I don't really have a choice.

I've got $1500 sunk into mine w/o shipping charges that I pieced together a year ago. The list:

P-pump retrofit kit for Jeep (from PSC): $429
Small M16 X 1.5 fitting (for P-pump output to AN fitting from PSC): $10.50
6.6 ci. Parker orbital valve (non-rear steer model from WMS): $350
4" steering column (3/4 X 30 spline from PSC): $90
custom 2X8 ram with single heim (from WMS): $169
clevis mount for ram (from WMS): $25
thin line transmission cooler w/AN-6 male fittings (from online somewhere): $45
All stainless steel braided hoses (aeroquip teflon lined), high and low pressure swivel fittings (aeroquip) and various adapter fittings: $371

You can step down in grade in some of this stuff though. But I wanted to go with a good pump and I also wanted very good lines hence the stainless steel braided. Plus, I bought enough line to have some spare and I also bought a few spare fittings so I can splice in a union if necessary, etc.

Troy
01-31-2006, 08:28 AM
Tommy,

What did you do with your steering clock spring (the thing that automatically turns off your turn signal)? Did you remove it from the column or did you somehow break it?

Tommy
02-03-2006, 12:38 PM
I didn't even mess with the clock spring. The AIRBAG light is on now. I am going to get rid of my stock steering wheel and airbag anways. And take out the cruis control now, dont see me using that anymore. j/k

Troy
02-03-2006, 02:25 PM
I didn't even mess with the clock spring. The AIRBAG light is on now. I am going to get rid of my stock steering wheel and airbag anways. And take out the cruis control now, dont see me using that anymore. j/k

Yep, plan on removing the airbag and needs service (not check engine) lights out of the dash like I did with the ABS light. The stupid needs service is the dummy light that comes on at 70k. I'm also planning on getting another steering wheel.

Tommy
02-03-2006, 03:55 PM
I just pulled the fuse and relay for the ABS, but the airbag light has two fuses. Right? The second one controls the whole dash illumination if I remember from reading the manual. One thing I notice is that the steering wheel doesn't really center all the time. Sometimes it will be upside down and other times it will right. Is this normal?

Troy
02-03-2006, 04:36 PM
One thing I notice is that the steering wheel doesn't really center all the time. Sometimes it will be upside down and other times it will right. Is this normal?

Yes, unless I'm missing something. Remember that even though your steering stops stop the kunckles form turning the steering wheel will still spin and this causes the wheel to be "out of whack".

Troy
02-05-2006, 04:25 PM
Installation is done. We skipped installing the cooler since the guys installating it with me (they all run rigs will full hydro) said that it's really not necessary for my application. Also, we did not make the ram skid due to time contraints but we had it all in and done in 6 hours of work time. I'll post a full write up of this when I have time to.

Pics are here:
http://smallnet.homeip.net/gallery/view_album.php?set_albumName=Installation-2-4-06&page=1

Tommy
02-06-2006, 12:33 PM
Nice......... You drive it yet?

Troy
02-06-2006, 12:59 PM
Nice......... You drive it yet?

Just up and down a local road where we did the installation. It drives well. Can't wait to get some trail time on it now.

I do have to resolve an issue with my tie rod hitting my diff on left hand turns though. With the old steering, it would just act as a stop. With the hydro steering, I can actually see the knuckle get stressed which isn't good. I can resolve this by decreasing my tie rod diameter and/or putting strategic bends into the tie rod to get it out of the way.

OverkillZJ
02-06-2006, 01:37 PM
I'm so glad you did this before me, LOL.

Troy
02-06-2006, 02:12 PM
I'm so glad you did this before me, LOL.

Are you doing a single ended or double ended ram? I'm going to do as good of a write up as I can about the single ended ram and the tc to p-pump conversion installations when I have time.

Note, that doing this in 6 hours of work time included working with experienced installers, good welder, and one hell of an ironworker to punch the holes with and put the slight bend into the orbital bracket we made. The only drilling we did was to drill out my hi steer arm to 3/4" to drop in a 3/4" to 5/8" insert. We used self tapping screws to install the reservoir.

OverkillZJ
02-06-2006, 02:17 PM
Probably going to be double ended, and might end up all being PSC considering my tiny time frame to build this thing. That's really my LAST concern at the moment though (steering.)

Tommy
02-16-2006, 10:21 PM
Hey Troy


How full did you fill up that resvoir? I think I may be over filling it. I haven't driven the rig much since I put the steering on, but decided today to take it for s spin to the gas station. With my front shaft installed it seemed to drive better, had it up to 70 mph. Not for long of course, but it actually wasn't bad.

Troy
02-16-2006, 11:51 PM
Hey Troy


How full did you fill up that resvoir? I think I may be over filling it. I haven't driven the rig much since I put the steering on, but decided today to take it for s spin to the gas station. With my front shaft installed it seemed to drive better, had it up to 70 mph. Not for long of course, but it actually wasn't bad.

Probably 3/4 of the way with the ram at full compression so that all of the fluid is in the reservoir.

Tommy
02-17-2006, 10:55 AM
Thanks. In my case since I have the double ended ram should I extend it to one direction then check? I guess I have been overfilling it then, I was at about the top of the filter, right where the top goes skinny for the cap.

Troy
02-17-2006, 01:46 PM
Thanks. In my case since I have the double ended ram should I extend it to one direction then check? I guess I have been overfilling it then, I was at about the top of the filter, right where the top goes skinny for the cap.

Yeah, check it with the ram at full compression which is one side since you have a double ended ram. I'd pull a little fluid out to allow for expansion when the fluid gets warm.

Tommy
02-17-2006, 03:53 PM
I fugured that much. I puked some fluid out yesterday after about 1/2 an hour of driving around. Golden though after it finished expanding. thanks....