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View Full Version : 4.0L 99+ intake manifold swap with REAL DYNO NUMBERS!



DJJordache
12-04-2005, 01:26 PM
Jeep Intake Manifold Swap and Evaluation
In 1999, Jeep had to redesign many parts of the venerable four liter to meet increasingly stringent emission controls. Some of these redesigned parts of the engine were, but not limited to, smaller exhaust ports to heat the inline catalytic converters quicker (The original exhaust outlets were nothing to write home about and now are smaller), two inline catalytic converters in the exhaust manifolds (This in addition to the original, but more efficient catalytic converter in the exhaust system), revised camshaft timing to reduce overlap and duration, and revised computer timing maps. None of this is conducive to increased performance.
Jeep’s answer was to redesign the intake manifold, EXTENSIVELY, to make up for the power losses due to tightening emission regulations. This swap is increasingly becoming popular, but no one has actually tested the merits or demerits beyond, what I will refer to as the “Butt Dyno”. This is the purpose of this review and evaluation. To install the later manifold and actually find out what it will do on a dyno and what messes you get into with this conversion. Reports on the internet state that if you fit one of these manifolds to a earlier Jeep, without the different emission reduction devices, you get a 15 hp boost! Those running strokers even more as Jeep Speed mention a 25 hp gain on there race engines just with this change! Let’s see!!!


Basic baseline data of the subject test vehicle

1993 Jeep Grand Cherokee

My engine specs before:
1993 4.0L
Turbocity air intake
Removed 5mm taper on throttle body 60mm all the way through
Throttle body spacer 62mm
Port and polished head
LS1 valves 2.02 intake 1.60 exhaust – Detailed at the end of this write-up
Banks header
FULL 2.5” exhaust all the way back
Carsound OBDII high flow cat
Custom homemade dual mode muffler
Stock style plug wires, cap, rotor and ignition coil
Stock fuel pressure of 43.5 psi (measured)
31x10.5 tires, which does affect a chassis dyno.

Only things that changed between the two dyno runs were:
The 2000 intake manifold
The 2000 injectors that came with the manifold
Hesco adjustable fuel pressure regulator for the 91-95 4.0L adjusted to the newer pressure, required of the new style injectors of 49PSI
I ground down the large bumps around the injector ports, to maximize air flow across all inlets to the engine. This will be discussed during this write-up.
Note, the local state safety and emission tests were performed after the installation of this manifold and injector change. The vehicle passed with flying colors. No detrimental effect to the ecology here!!



http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c367/djjordache/intakeswap/image001.jpg
The new 1999 and newer style intake manifold is on the right. Note the MUCH larger volume and individual runners. The Renix on the left is shown for design reference.

Here you can see my 93 in the middle and the completely new intake manifold on the right. The runners are far more curved leading to the ports without the harsh right angled bends that the earlier ones have. You can also see that the plenum chamber which sits right under where the throttle body bolts is much larger.
http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c367/djjordache/intakeswap/image004.jpg
“The old intake manifold took 2.6 liters to fill and the new one an 4.3 liters. A throttle body spacer only adds .076 liters you can see how much bigger in volume this new manifold is without the sharp bends in the runners.” (Picture above and text were borrowed from http://www.go.jeep-xj.info/HowtoIntakeManifold1.htm)
http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c367/djjordache/intakeswap/image005.jpg
These are the number four to six from left to right, or center to outer ports, of the new manifold.
You will find a small lip from the machining process inside each port. This is not good for air flow and should be removed by grinding regardless of the further port grinding or not
Note the bosses or raised areas around the injectors. That is not an optical illusion, but the bosses around the injectors are different from Center as you go out.
The bosses on the center two ports (3 and 4) of the six-port manifold are very large and are somewhat restrictive of the port. The number 2 and 5 ports are less restrictive, and the number 1 and 6 ports are basically open.
I would assume this is some type of tuning for a flatter torque curve, and improve drivability, at the expense of upper rpm horsepower.
Now, how to test this theory?
Not owning a sophisticated manometer and the machine shop that did the valve work could not flow test intake manifolds, I decided to make my own monometer to check the relative flow relations between the intake ports.
http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c367/djjordache/intakeswap/image006.jpg
I used my trusty two horsepower shop vacuum to pull large amounts of air through the individual ports and insert a plastic hose into the injector ports. Note, this method is NOT intended to provide an SAE factual flow data, but only to indicate differential differences between the intake runners to see if my concerns were valid. The hose was run to a bowl of colored water on the ground and the test was performed on top of my work bench. Note, placement of the plastic tube must be EXACTLY the same for each test or the resulting figures will vary greatly.
http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c367/djjordache/intakeswap/image008.jpg
Vacuum from ports one and six pulled the colored water up only 6.875”.
http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c367/djjordache/intakeswap/image010.jpg
Vacuum from ports 2 and 5 pulled the colored water up 7.375” or 7.3% more restriction than ports 1and 6.
http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c367/djjordache/intakeswap/image012.jpg
Vacuum from ports 3 and 4 pulled the colored water up 7.625”, or 10.9% more than ports 1 and 6………NOW WHAT?

http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c367/djjordache/intakeswap/image014.jpg
Grind the protrusions in the ports, around the injector outlets to equalize flow using the fore mentioned test procedure. BE VERY CAREFUL to not cut through the manifold. The bosses or protrusions have indentations in the runner of different sizes for these bosses. IT WOULD BE VERY EASY TO CUT A HOLE IN YOUR MANIFOLD. YOU ARE WARNED. I got them within 3% of the same flow and chickened out to cut more!!!

Power steering pump modifications
http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c367/djjordache/intakeswap/image016.jpg
In 1996 Jeep changed the mounting bracket, power steering pump, and idler pulley for the power steering pump arrangement. For a 1993 this meant new parts and a new power steering pump.
http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c367/djjordache/intakeswap/image017.jpg
This is a copy of the parts needed at the jeep dealer or junk yard to convert a 1993 power steering system to use the new intake manifold. Note, # 8, 9, and 2 are not necessary. You can reuse the old parts.
http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c367/djjordache/intakeswap/image019.jpg
Part Numbers for the steering portion of the intake swap for pre 96 4.0L’s
Part number Dealer name for part Price at my dealer
4. 34202029 bolt-hex f 136c 2.95
5. 33002201 bushing-id 114b 3.35
6. 4792112 pulley 116e 20.50 (Normal ZJ idler pulley)
7. 6503230 spacer-bel 2.70
8. 53010148 bracket 15.50
9. 53010149 sleeve-ten 5.60
10. 6503198 bolt 8.75
11. Reuse yours or hardware store
Total for the power steering parts if purchased at dealer: $59.35

http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c367/djjordache/intakeswap/image020.jpg
This new bracket becomes the way to adjust the belt tension and makes adjusting the serpentine belt tension MUCH easier than the original system!!! I also had to get a new serpentine belt part number 4060922 / 6PK2345 Goodyear Gatorback. It sort of sounded like I had a supercharger whine before the belt had time to break in, then the sound went away.
On the 93-95 ZJ’s the idler pulley on the new power steering bracket replaces the pulley that was below the air conditioner compressor, and the belt routing changes slightly but it was no big deal. When you remove the pulley below the AC make sure you put the bolt back in, it holds the AC bracket.

Assembled and installed power steering system
http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c367/djjordache/intakeswap/image022.jpg Final installed power steering pump assembly





Installation


http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c367/djjordache/intakeswap/image024.jpg
After removal of the old intake manifold, loosen the remaining bolts to the exhaust manifold or, in this case the Banks header, which was previously installed. Replace the intake and exhaust gasket. Make sure that the new gasket holes line up with the intake ports on the new manifold. I have seen some new gaskets that are considerably smaller than the passages they are supposed to seal and this reduces air flow.

http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c367/djjordache/intakeswap/image025.jpg
The bracket to secure the fuel lines as they pass under the manifold used a different bolt pattern on the earlier verses later manifold. I re-drilled the bracket to bolt to the 99+ manifold. Do not leave this out or fuel line leaks could occur from excess vibration over time.

http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c367/djjordache/intakeswap/image027.jpg
Installed manifold with original throttle body. Some rearranging of vacuum lines was necessary, but that will be obvious. The intake air temperature sensor wires might need to be lengthened, but was not necessary on mine, but it was close. You must also use the throttle and transmission cable bracket from your original vehicle or the throttle and transmission might not work as before. The distance from the transmission control cable to the throttle arm MUST be the same as before for proper transmission function. This length is adjustable to some degree with a locking tab at the cable mount.

http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c367/djjordache/intakeswap/image029.jpg
My jeep is equipped with an air / fuel ratio meter to watch the mixture for signs of lean running while we had the 2000 injectors installed, while using the 1993 fuel pressure regulator. Note that the 1993 fuel pressure was tested at 43.5 psi without the vacuum source connected. The new style injectors are to run at 49 psi in the newer Jeeps, for better atomization, I assume. I ran the Grand for three weeks at the lower pressure with no ill effects and no change in fuel economy. I wanted to see if the new injectors would actually aid fuel economy at the higher pressures due to better atomization. Above is the adjustable fuel pressure regulator from Hesco installed and reset to 49 PSI with the vacuum disconnected. This is how the dyno run was performed. I, to date have not seen much benefit in fuel economy with this new set up, but there was NO negative change in miles per gallon. What I would call the “Butt Dyno” did seem to feel a difference in response with the higher pressure.
FYI The original injectors will work and fit right in. If you use the new style injectors, you will have to modify the electrical connection and zip tie wrap the connectors to the new injectors. Note, you can buy separate new style plugs and change the electrical plugs if you desire.

Proof is in the Pudding, or in this Case, the actual before and after Chassis Dyno Runs
Note, the original runs were performed with a modified fan clutch to insure cooling in the hot summer. Both runs were performed with this modification to insure good data. Then a second test with the fan clutch reset to standard conditions.
The Grand Cherokee was run normally in city driving for one month, to make sure that there were no bad effects from this modification. I really did not see much increase in gas mileage that has been reported on the Internet, but there was no decrease either. The engine feels much stronger above 3000 rpm, but I had to know the real effect.

DJJordache
12-04-2005, 01:26 PM
Test Day

http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c367/djjordache/intakeswap/image031.jpg
Setting the Grand up for the acid test at Carboy in Houston, Texas,
http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c367/djjordache/intakeswap/image033.jpg
Rear view showing the rear wheels on the dyno, straps to hold it secure and I paid extra to have the exhaust gas analyzer running during the tests to show the air / fuel ratio.

Results!!!!!
Result on Rear Wheel Horsepower on actual chassis dyno.

HP GAIN: 26.9 Rear wheel HP
TQ GAIN: 19.7 Rear wheel TQ

Original dyno test averaged 119 HP. New test is 146.4 HP. Torque has increased from 154.6 to 170.2 lbs.
It was interesting that the engine ran leaner, but still safe.
You will note the higher power readings on the final test. We released the spring on the fan clutch to unload the fan for the last run and gained almost 12 HP more.
Note, this modification is necessary to completely stop the heating problem in South Texas on a Jeep four liter. I will detail below.
As previously stated, we had the vehicle state inspected, which includes an exhaust analyzer with no detrimental effects at all.



http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c367/djjordache/intakeswap/image034.jpg
This is the original and base line dyno run showing rear wheel horsepower. Again note, this test also uses a modified fan clutch and the conditions of the vehicle as shown at the start of the review. It is not indicative of all Grand Cherokees, but is the baseline for this evaluation.

http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c367/djjordache/intakeswap/image036.jpg

here is a better dyno sheet to show the difference with only the before and after on it!
http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c367/djjordache/dynobeforeafter.jpg




This is the exact same vehicle as described, except the new style intake manifold, stock 2000 injectors and correct stock fuel pressure for those injectors. The max power of 146.4 is with the modified fan clutch to keep the dyno run tests consistent. The 158.9 number is with the fan clutch basically reset to stock conditions, which will not cool in high summer temperatures with the A/C and traffic, but I wanted to see the actual effect of this fan modification also.


Is it worth it?………YOU BET!!!

How to Keep a Four Liter Cool with the A/C on in traffic


During this test we were running a modified fan clutch to stop, once and for all the overheating issue in traffic and the A/C on. I will detail below both for a Grand Cherokee and a Regular Cherokee.

Grand Cherokee
There have been several posts about overheating and ideas how to stop. Most of which I have tried, including electric fans, cleaning the radiator with every known chemical, professional radiator cleaning, different fan clutches, larger radiators, louvers in the hood, ect. Still in stop and go traffic the engine would get hot. I am determined to be able to run the A/C full blast in heavy traffic in high humidity and hot weather above 100F!!!!!!!! Just call me fussy but it’s hot in Texas.

I had previously changed the original fan clutch to a new heavy-duty design clutch. While this helped, it still was not the solution.
http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c367/djjordache/intakeswap/image038.jpg
This is the original setting of the thermostatic spring as purchased from the Auto Store. As the spring heats up, the center shaft, which is actually a valve to restrict oil flow, rotates counter clockwise. The more it rotates, the tighter the fan locks up.
http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c367/djjordache/intakeswap/image039.jpg
You note that the spring can be removed from its locked position. In this position, the clutch is almost locked solid, as we have rotated the center valve shaft the full 90 degrees counter clock wise.
http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c367/djjordache/intakeswap/image040.jpg
What I did is I cut the spring down so that the preset is now 45 degrees greater, or more toward the locked position to increase air flow. A small drop of glue secures this position.
Result, more noise, 12 extra horsepower to drive, per the dyno test, but NO OVERHEATING AT ALL!!! When we unlocked the clutch for the final test, all I did was pop the spring out and rotate clockwise to the maximum setting, thereby basically unlocking the clutch. This position actually works well below 85 degrees ambient and will be left there until next summer.

Standard XJ Jeep Cherokee Heating Solution


Tried bigger four core radiator, cleaning, electric fan, ect. NOTHING works in high humidity, high temperature and stop and go traffic with the A/C on!
My solution is to ELIMINATE the fan clutch all together!
The XJ fan is only 12-13 inches tall due to the tips for better efficiency.
I removed the fan clutch and installed an old fan clutch eliminator that I had laying around for direct drive.

Note, DO NOT DO THIS ON A GRAND CHEROKEE, the fan is much larger, could fail, and/or pull a rediculus amount of horsepower.
http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c367/djjordache/intakeswap/image041.jpg
Here you see the fan clutch eliminator before the original fan clutch is removed and discarded. The above modification to the fan clutch, as I did on the grand Cherokee might work, but due to the small diameter of this fan, I doubt it.
I do not remember who made this eliminator, as I have had it for a while. It might be possible lock up your clutch and get similar results.
Result…OVER HEATING IS GONE PERIOD!
Head Modifications
As this evaluation of the intake manifold is not being done on exactly a stock engine, due to the oversize valves and ports, I thought I should detail what we did to make sure there is no misunderstanding of the test results. It might be possible that a stock engine might not see quite so much improvement, as my engine has the below modifications to the cylinder head. I have not documented the manifold change on a stock four-liter head engine. Note, this modification to the head yielded a 10% improvement in gas mileage. The larger ports and valves alone, really did not seem to improve performance much, but I will take the gas mileage improvement all day!!

Valve sizes of the 4-Liter head are much larger than the older 258, but one can never be happy with that. The current intake valves are 1.90” and exhaust at 1.5 “and use an 8mm stem.
Solutions
1. Even the new 4-Liter heads are somewhat restrictive due to relatively small port sizes and the worst is the exhaust valve ports. I took an intake and exhaust valve gasket and basically made the port sizes match the gasket holes. This is about a 7-hour project by hand. It is important to not over do this, as the ports can break through into the water passages. I only opened the ports to match the gaskets and manifold ports and had no trouble.
2. The head will accept 1.60” exhaust and 2.02” intake valves. This is best left to a machine shop. In addition to the need for new seats, and possibly guides, if the originals are excessively worn, the bowels directly beneath the new valves must be opened up for optimal airflow. Due to the 8mm stems, only the Magnum 360 valves, which are pricey will fit, but Long’s Machine shop discovered that the Chevrolet LS-1 valves, with a .002” larger SAE stem will work fine. You have worn guides anyway and this takes up the clearance with minimal modifications.
3. Actual measured CFM increase on a flow bench for 1991 or later head verses modified head. Stock at .500” lift intake 215 c.f.m. Exhaust at .600” lift 143.03 CFM. These measurements were done at Long’s Machine Shop.
4. Modified head. Intake at .500” lift yielded, 252.63 c.f.m. Exhaust at .400” lift yielded, 152.14. (Note, no additional flow was gained at .600” lift) This is an increase of 17.4% increase on the intake and 6% on the exhaust. If you look at the flow curves on the exhaust, at .400” lift before and after, you see a 10% increase at the same lift.
5. Long’s Machine and Custom Engines in San Antonio, Texas carried out the
actual valve conversion and testing. Phone 210 922 0637. Talk to Jerry.
http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c367/djjordache/intakeswap/image043.jpg
Standard HO head flow data
http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c367/djjordache/intakeswap/image045.jpg
Ported and LS1 oversize valve head flow data
http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c367/djjordache/intakeswap/image047.jpg
The original valves at 1.5” and 1.90”, work well for millions of Jeep 4-liters. Not good enough. Let’s put in 1.60” and 2.02”. New verses old heads shown above.
http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c367/djjordache/intakeswap/image049.jpg
Let’s clean up the intake and exhaust ports……..ended up almost Ľ” larger on the exhaust top to bottom and 3/16” larger on the intake. The main point is to port match the intake and exhaust ports to the intake and exhaust manifolds and gaskets. Note, how the original exhaust ports on the right in the picture above, are much smaller than the gasket. The gasket is the same size as the exhaust manifold. Actually my brother and I did the porting work based upon a few articles in the net on head porting. We got the porting stones and kit from Summit Racing. This takes almost one hour per cylinder or almost 7 hours total to do the port and polish by hand, before the machine shop work was done on the valves. Note, Long’s Machine can also do this porting for you, but you will save a ton of money if you do the porting work yourself and let them do the valve conversion and flow test the result on their bench.

Conclusions: The HP&TQ gain I stated was a result of changing all three parts (intake manifold, 99+ 22.5lbs injectors, and the Hesco adjustable fuel pressure regulator to get the fuel rail up to the right pressure for the newer injectors) and that my modified motor helped with higher HP gain possible, more than probably (since there wasn't a test on a stock motor) a stock motor might see, sorry stock guys you have lots of catching up to do!

DJJordache
12-04-2005, 01:47 PM
yeah that was long huh?:D

oh and I will soon be doing this same mod on my brothers XJ 4.7 stroker! will be hoping for an even larger boost in HP and TQ!:supz:

nate
12-04-2005, 04:22 PM
Good info!

Cue-Ball
12-04-2005, 04:28 PM
Yes nice write-up, thanks.

TrojanMan
12-04-2005, 05:41 PM
I was under the impression this swap would only pull about 5-10 hp.. but 30 at the wheels? Incredible. I'm going to have to show Dino this one.

LouisianaZJ
12-04-2005, 05:47 PM
so a 4.slo HO pre 99 ony puts down 145 hp to the wheels?

what a power house

OverkillZJ
12-04-2005, 06:11 PM
Wow, I wasn't expecting those numbers. Awesome!

TrojanMan
12-04-2005, 06:12 PM
so a 4.slo HO pre 99 ony puts down 145 hp to the wheels?

what a power house

All numbers you get from factory is at the crank. You think the 5.9 is putting down 245 HP at the wheels? Think again. That's why all of the new SRT-8's have the same HP ratings (425 I think it is).. if they did a chassis dyno every vehicle would have different drivetrain losses so every vehicle would have a different number.

LouisianaZJ
12-04-2005, 06:17 PM
All numbers you get from factory is at the crank. You think the 5.9 is putting down 245 HP at the wheels? Think again. That's why all of the new SRT-8's have the same HP ratings (425 I think it is).. if they did a chassis dyno every vehicle would have different drivetrain losses so every vehicle would have a different number.

a 30% drivetrain loss is pretty high

TrojanMan
12-04-2005, 06:20 PM
a 30% drivetrain loss is pretty high

Yeah, but we're talking about a jeep grand cherokee here.

*edit* also, it's automatic so it has more parasitic drag.

DJJordache
12-04-2005, 07:37 PM
Yeah, but we're talking about a jeep grand cherokee here.
*edit* also, it's automatic so it has more parasitic drag.

Thanks for the props guys! This was an EXPENSIVE TEST! the 2 dyno runs were about $90 EACH!!!! for about 3-4 pulls with air/fuel curves.

the drivetrain loss is pretty HUGE on the ZJ, but I also did the math on my brothers XJ and got about the same % loss........ So after we do this to his 4.7L I can estimate we will be OVER 300 flywheel HP!

TrojanMan
12-04-2005, 07:39 PM
That's what i'm hoping for:cheer:

that'd be like 1 dollar per hp. I assume the FMS 24# injectors will fit in as well?

DJJordache
12-04-2005, 07:52 PM
That's what i'm hoping for:cheer:

that'd be like 1 dollar per hp. I assume the FMS 24# injectors will fit in as well?

yes the early and later injectors are COMPLETLY interchangeable with the intake and fuel rail. You won't have to change anything to use the FMS injectors.
But if you were to use the WJ injectors you would have to modify the electrical plugins and zip tie the connectors on, no big deal though.

Michael
12-04-2005, 08:32 PM
am i too drunk, or did i miss wtf you did to fix the overheating on the zj? is that the factory clutch that was modified? if another fan/clutch, which?

DJJordache
12-04-2005, 08:40 PM
am i too drunk, or did i miss wtf you did to fix the overheating on the zj? is that the factory clutch that was modified? if another fan/clutch, which?

yeah I modified a stock style HD fan clutch to trick it to think it was hotter that it actually was to get it to lock up more and move more air through the radiator, and I can "unmodify" the clutch really quick for the winter

DJJordache
12-04-2005, 08:42 PM
Before the swap dyno run video:
I don't have a real place to host it and the site that I webmaster would kill me if I used their bandwidth.
Click here to watch ZJ-before-intake-swap-dyno (http://media.putfile.com/ZJ-before-intake-swap-dyno)

ptownTSI
12-05-2005, 05:11 AM
you need to richen that up to around 13.5:1 dont you?

CurtP
12-05-2005, 09:22 AM
ptownTSI - stoichiometric combustion is 14.7:1.

Interesting read. I'd like to see what kind of gains one would get with motor closer to stock that had a CAI and cat-back (stock heads, stock fuel pressure regulator, stock size injectors). It may be a project that I take on this winter.

BC98
12-09-2005, 08:47 AM
CurtP,

Stoiciometric ratio for gas combustion is 14.7 but peak power is made in a slightly rich condition (mid to high 13s).

CurtP
12-10-2005, 08:52 AM
Not always true - I think it will vary depending on engine. The stroker in my Formula made more power slightly lean (right around 15:1), but my tuner backed it off a little bit to be on the safe side (14.5:1). Seems that the higher the VE, the leaner it can be run.

DJJordache
12-10-2005, 08:30 PM
I'm going to try and add some more validity to the test by doing 3 separate 3 run groups with the Gtech:
1) the way it is currently 99+ intake 22.5lb injectors @ 49psi
2) 99+ intake, 93 injectors 21lb at 39 psi (stock)
3) 99+ intake, 93 injectors 21lb at 43.5 psi (what my stock pressure regulator actually tested at)

but before all of this I have to find a local weigh station to get the correct weight to put into the Gtech, and on top of that, study for my finals on Tues and Thurs which are gonna suck!

doyll
02-06-2006, 09:30 PM
Great bit of work DJJordache !!

Did you keep track of torque and hp reading from 1000 to 3000 rpm too? I'm really interested in what manifold does at this street and highway rpm range. Expecially the approximately 1700 to 2500 rpm range of cruising from approximately 55 to 80 mph and the super-lowend torque for right off of idle for crawling.

If you don't have these, no problem.

Thanks for sharing all this documentation with us!

Lloyd

DJJordache
02-06-2006, 11:41 PM
sure no prob:D but the 1000-3000 range is not covered in the dyno runs b/c they dont want the vehicle shift around even though it is strapped down. They want it in top gear for the run. if you watched the vid I posted they ran it up through the gears and then got on it for the run.
sorry guys I wish I also knew the gains in these rpm runs but I only have the butt dyno for those rpms but it does feel like there might be more off the line...
but again, FYI not everyone will have the same gains I did, just depends on the engine setup to maximize the gains when all the parts are working together in Jeep engine harmony:driving:

doyll
03-07-2006, 12:27 PM
DJJordache, Does your butt dyno feel any difference when going up long grades? Hopefully it holds speed on grade with less throttle needing to be added. That's what I hope for with the conversion on my rig.

Thanks agien for the great writeup!

DJJordache
03-07-2006, 12:32 PM
well as for "long grades" there isn't much of that in houston, but I can kind of notice what you mean, I "think" it takes a little less gas applied to go up overpasses:smt044 and the trans doesn't seem as downshift happy when going up inclines at hwy speed

Cue-Ball
03-16-2006, 12:40 AM
Anyone have a good source for a 99+ manifold? The local yards around here SUCK big time.

DJJordache
03-16-2006, 12:38 PM
Anyone have a good source for a 99+ manifold? The local yards around here SUCK big time.
the local yards around me that I can search on car-part.com are all about 100 just for the intake, ill keep an eye out for ya in the local yards that are cheaper, but don't know what they have unless you go up there can look in them. I found one local for my brother for 65:D

Cue-Ball
03-16-2006, 03:48 PM
If someone could keep an eye out for me that would be great.

Dirk

TrojanMan
05-25-2006, 05:17 PM
MrShoeBoy just did the swap and ran a dyno before and after. The only thing he changed was the intake. He gained 2-3 HP. The engine might breathe a little better so throttle response may have improved slightly, however based on what he said it doesn't sound like it's worth the swap.

DJJordache
05-25-2006, 11:53 PM
does he have the dyno printouts? I'm not doubting his results though. but it would be nice to have more info for those who are thinkin about doing this swap.
I never said my write up was for just the intake, because I did the full 99+ intake swap and matching injectors. I disclosed everything that I changed and as I have said before and you can see that I updated to the 99+ injectors and had to get the Hesco FPR to match the new injectors rating of 49psi at the rail. You can see from the dyno printout of mine on the before and after graphs the change in the air fuel ratio that accounted for alot of the gain.

I don't know the setup on Mr. Shoes 4.0L but I'd bet he didn't machine the intake like I did, but I dunno all of his rigs engine specs.
I'm just trying to say that I have many things modified on my 4.0L that may have also allowed the manifold to be a greater gain on mine. EX: port and polish head, shaved head surface, LS1 valves, intake, banks header, FULL 2.5" exhaust Carsound cat and my own custom made muffler and a few other things:D

What sucks about the dyno is that it doesn't show the HP/TQ ratings from idle to about 3k which is mostly what we use.

ok I just saw Mr shoe has a 4.6L stroker, is he using the stock TB? he might have some bottlenecks that couldn't allow the engine to breathe enough in the first place, maybe... on our 4.7L XJ we have a 68mm tb from the 4.7L v8 and a few other toys in that engine, but we havnt gotten around to dynoing it after its swap, yet...

zjinprogress
05-26-2006, 04:32 PM
I looked high and low for a 99+ IM and found one on e-bay for like 52 bucks shipped. It had a small chip off the corner but my friend was a tigger by trade so he made her all shiny and new for me. There on e-bay time to time and car-aprt as djjordache said.

zjinprogress
05-27-2006, 11:04 AM
the previous post was not me....i am the tig welder who fixed that IM for a friend...a note to justin, you use my username now?


Mike

gunthagunth
06-06-2006, 10:58 PM
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/TJ-XJ-YJ-ZJ-WJ-4-0-INTAKE-MANIFOLD-99-00-01-02-03-04-05_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ36474QQihZ019QQitemZ 8072659219QQrdZ1
found this figured id give the heads up

DJJordache
06-07-2006, 09:47 AM
yeah a good source to find them is on ebay BUT since there are often many people who are also looking for them on ebay sometimes the price goes higher...
I got my first one off of ebay with injectors and fuel rail for $89 I think, and my second one off of car-part.com (http://car-part.com/) and found a local yard selling it for $65:D

gunthagunth
06-07-2006, 11:43 AM
funny that was .01 when i posted it last nite.

Dperra
06-29-2006, 12:38 AM
Ok, I am about to install the 99+ intake manifold on my 1995 ZJ. I am not clear on exactly what is required for the Power steering pump. My ZJ has a cast bracket for the power stering pump that bolts onto the block and also onto the Intake manifold. I presume the new bracket has the correct relationship to account for the different location of the bolt holes on the intake manifold. If I understand correctly I will need to get a new power steering pump and the newer bracket to mount it. Is this correct? If so then what years and models of power steering pumps will work, what should I ask for at the parts store?

Thanks :driving:
Dan

DJJordache
06-29-2006, 08:40 AM
You will no longer use the cast bracket this new one will replace it. Yes the new bracket is already ready to go, it bolts to the block, intake manifold, and the waterpump or the timing cover (I can't remember which one right now).
Yes I got a new pump for both times I have done this swap on mine and my stroker XJ.
BUT I have also heard of some people drilling out the power steering pump mount hole threads, but I think thats kinda halfass, b/c the new pump has support runners the full length of the bolt. besides the one in there is probably still the stock one so I kinda considered this as a maintainace upgrade and got the new pump.
I you were going to try and get this bracket (and pump if you want to get a cheap used one) from a junkyard you would be looking for a 96+ ZJ and also a 96+XJ for the bracket I don't know if the XJ uses the same PS pump.
The pump I got from Autozone is from a 96-98 ZJ ATSCO (http://www.autozone.com/servlet/UiBroker?UseCase=C001&UserAction=performMoreDetail&Parameters=TRUE%7C%7EPOWER+STEERING+PUMP%7C%7E%242 2.20%7C%7EATSCO%7C%7EWITH+RESERVOIR++++++%7C%7EFAL SE%7C%7EFALSE%7C%7E9052%7C%7E3127%7C%7E7111%7C%7EN ONE%7C%7E%2469.99%7C%7EJEEP%7C%7EGRAND+CHEROKEE+2W D%7C%7E1996%7C%7ELLT%7C%7E6.05%7C%7ENONE%7C%7EB)
WITH RESERVOIR (http://www.autozone.com/servlet/UiBroker?UseCase=C001&UserAction=performMoreDetail&Parameters=TRUE%7C%7EPOWER+STEERING+PUMP%7C%7E%242 2.20%7C%7EATSCO%7C%7EWITH+RESERVOIR++++++%7C%7EFAL SE%7C%7EFALSE%7C%7E9052%7C%7E3127%7C%7E7111%7C%7EN ONE%7C%7E%2469.99%7C%7EJEEP%7C%7EGRAND+CHEROKEE+2W D%7C%7E1996%7C%7ELLT%7C%7E6.05%7C%7ENONE%7C%7EB) Part number: 7111 WITHOUT SPEED PROPORTIONAL STEERING

Dperra
06-29-2006, 09:13 AM
Thanks for the quick reply. now for two other questions.

1. Is the new idler pully the same as on of the ons already on my engine? Both the pullies on My ZJ were replaced about 9 months ago.

2. I have the overhead console in my ZJ. After the stroker with high flow injectors was installed the Fuel milage function on longer reads the correct milage. Do you know if the Trip Computer can be reprogramed or reset in some way?

DJJordache
06-29-2006, 11:49 AM
sure thing:D
1. the pulley is the same!
2. I have never heard of that...mine is not stroked and the trip computer works fine, and my stroked XJ does not have a trip computer. Sorry I dunno if it can be reprogramed

edit I saw you added a signature you might be interested in some of my other handy work:
http://65.42.106.152/forums/showthread.php?t=698310

Dperra
06-29-2006, 09:56 PM
I Just got back from the Dyno with my 4.7L stroker. I really wish I had gotten a baseline before I had the engine rebuilt, oh well. The Results are interesting. My stroker was built to improve Torque. The basic specs on the stroker are: .060 over on the bore, 258 Crank, CC matched, Head ported to match flow rate on all cylinders, Block and head decked and pistons dished to get 9.5 compression ratio, cam to maximize torque. The stock Intake manifold and throttle body were retained. This setup still runs on regular gas. The engine puts out 142.9 HP and 204.6 Ft. Lb. Torque, all this with a transmission that is going into the shop next week because of shifting problems. I can hardly wait to see what happens with a good transmission, the 99+ intake manifold and a 62mm throttle body. It is interesting that the HP came out to about the same as just the Intake / injector mod. But the Torque come out much higher. As for the seat feel the acceleration feels like a sports car. As soon as I figure out how to get permitions to post a picture I will post the Dyno sheet.

DJJordache
06-30-2006, 09:35 AM
You can get a member acount here to be able to attach pictures and a few more perks:D you can also get a account at Photobucket to host the pics and them post them here.

I think it was worth my extra time to grind out my intake manifold for more flow, but I don't have a before and after to prove it, but I did show the air flow differences above.
Are you still running stock injectors? check this out from Dino Savva on JU:
4.0 I6:
'87-'90 #53003956 18.6lb/hr @ 39psi
'91-'93 #33007127 21.0lb/hr @ 39psi
'94-'95 #53030343 21.0lb/hr @ 39psi
'96-'98 #53030778 23.2lb/hr @ 49psi
'99-'01 #04854181 22.5lb/hr @ 49psi

If your still running stock injectors (hope not) you have the 21.0lb/hr @ 39psi... I would get the Hesco adjustable fuel pressure regulator to turn up the fuel rail pressure to 49psi, like I did and get some Ford Motorsports 24lb injectors or at least the '96-'98 4.0L #53030778 23.2lb/hr @ 49psi

We have the FMS 24lb ones on our 90XJ stroker and actually tweaked (adjustable map sensor) it to make it leaner, and may change injectors to the 96-98 ones above.

I think maybe the transmission might be killin ya if you say it's dying. Mine was about 33% drive train loss which totally sucks! Heck there is even a difference in Dyno's The Mustang dynos read less than the Dynojet ones do.

what kind of exhaust manifold do you have? there might be some hidden power there too... if you saw the link I posted above we took a Borla header that we basicly stole from a junkyard for $29 and cut off the collector and made it 3" all the way back

Dperra
06-30-2006, 03:13 PM
As I said I have High Flow Injectors. Still have the Stock header. The stock header already flows pretty good. Another thing I see as a problem is that a 3” pipe can not be fit into the space available with the “normal” end of the head pipe. The only way anything larger can be fit is to modify the header. Paying 4 or 5 hundred dollars for a header and then modifying it just does not make sense to me either. The price is just too high for most of the headers available. Sure a premium price is warranted but 3 or 4 times a stock header when the improvement in performance is so little? I’ll wait until I have completed the transmission repair and the TB and Intake upgrade before I start on the header. Of course if a good deal happens to come my way I would need to reconsider.

Dperra
06-30-2006, 09:45 PM
I Just got back from the Dyno with my 4.7L stroker. I really wish I had gotten a baseline before I had the engine rebuilt, oh well. The Results are interesting. My stroker was built to improve Torque. The basic specs on the stroker are: .060 over on the bore, 258 Crank, CC matched, Head ported to match flow rate on all cylinders, Block and head decked and pistons dished to get 9.5 compression ratio, cam to maximize torque. The stock Intake manifold and throttle body were retained. This setup still runs on regular gas. The engine puts out 142.9 HP and 204.6 Ft. Lb. Torque, all this with a transmission that is going into the shop next week because of shifting problems. I can hardly wait to see what happens with a good transmission, the 99+ intake manifold and a 62mm throttle body. It is interesting that the HP came out to about the same as just the Intake / injector mod. But the Torque come out much higher. As for the seat feel the acceleration feels like a sports car. As soon as I figure out how to get permitions to post a picture I will post the Dyno sheet.




I have made a copy of my Dyno Sheet available from My Web Site. It is just a quick and dirty link to a file on my Web Server.


http://perra-us.net/Jeep%20Photos/Dyno%20Run%202006-06-29.htm (http://perra-us.net/Jeep%20Photos/Dyno%20Run%202006-06-29.htm)

.

DJJordache
06-30-2006, 10:04 PM
it's kinda hard to read....I was thinkin since your using the stock TB you should bore out the bottom part and make it 60mm all the way through until you get around to getting a 62mm that you want.
here is a how to from GoJeep:
http://www.go.jeep-xj.info/HowtoTBboring.htm

Dperra
07-01-2006, 07:55 AM
Actually I have the Late model Intake. It came with a throttle body that is in process of being bored out to 62mm. There is a guy in South Dakota that does this for $60.

JPZJ
07-10-2006, 02:11 AM
I'm going to put an '05 manifold onto my 96 ZJ and was reading through all these post (kinda confused).

Looks like:

'05 injectors have a different electrical hookup ?
Need more pressure at the rail then my set up ?

Better just to swap my current '96 injectors into the new manifold for the ease of install..or should it be worth the extra effort to use the newer injectors ?

Dperra
07-10-2006, 07:28 AM
Take a look at the following web site about building a stroker.

http://www.jeep4.0performance.4mg.com/stroker.html

There is a lot of information about injectors.

DJJordache
07-10-2006, 09:31 AM
96+ have it easy for this swap, but don't seem to gain as much.
the 96+ engines already have 49psi at the rail so you don't have to do anything to the fuel rail. You also have the newer power steering pump style and bracket setup already there.

I'm not sure what the pressures are for the 05 injectors were...but yes you can install your stock ones and be just fine. if you wanted to use the 05 ones you might have to trim the hookup area on the injector to slide on your connector. I don't know for sure if the 96 started the other style of injector hookup.
I had to modify mine because my stock injector hookups were rectangle and the 99+ ones I used were square, so I just trimmed part of the square on the injector and ziptied the connectors to stay on.
injector specs that I do know of from Dino:
'96-'98 #53030778 23.2lb/hr @ 49psi
'99-'01 #04854181 22.5lb/hr @ 49psi
so the 05 might be the same as the 99-01 but I can't say for sure, and might not be since they seem to change every few years...

CurtP
07-10-2006, 09:44 AM
I'm going to put an '05 manifold onto my 96 ZJ and was reading through all these post (kinda confused).

Looks like:

'05 injectors have a different electrical hookup ?
Need more pressure at the rail then my set up ?

Better just to swap my current '96 injectors into the new manifold for the ease of install..or should it be worth the extra effort to use the newer injectors ?

Yes, the newer injectors have a different connector on them. You don't need a different pressure to run them; their flow rate is listed at a different pressure. Why manufacturers do that is beyond me; standard flow rate is typically listed @ 43.5psi. When replacing injectors, it's good to know what the stock ones are rated (and at what PSI) to match them as closely to aftermarket ones. When converted to 43.5psi, the factory injectors on the pre-'98 4.0 is around 21#/hr - at least the ones in the '96-'98 ZJ's are.

You don't need to run the newer injectors - it won't give you anything unless your original injectors are in bad shape (poor spray pattern, large flow imbalances, clogged, etc). The computer will compensate for slightly larger or slightly smaller injectors by modifying the pulse rate to the injectors.

One thing to keep in mind is many aftermarket injectors are pintle injectors. I personally won't run them since they tend to foul easily (mainly by carbon buildup). Disc injectors are a better choice - they're self-cleaning, they have a better spray pattern, are more constant and are easier to flow-match. Some pintle injector manufacturers have bandaged the problem by installing a cap to keep carbon off the pintle - it helps, but doesn't prevent the problem entirely. The good side to pintle injectors is they're cheap and can be made to flow huge amounts of fuel. I don't think there's a disc injector out there that can flow over 50#/hr (all I could find only flowed up to 42#/hr).

So in short - keep your stock injectors unless they're either in poor shape or you're stroked. If you want to replace them with disc injectors that drop in, then Lucas/Delphi make some nice ones that are only slightly more expensive than many pintle injectors, and they make them in 21#/hr (http://www.racetronix.com).

JPZJ
07-11-2006, 11:00 PM
Thanks guys....

Bottom line with a NON STROKER motor there's not alot to gain by switching out the 96's intake w/ the 99 and newer ?

Mostly a benifit for the earlier ZJ's then (or a stroked motor)?

If thats the case I'll wait a while cuz those manifold bolts are a pain in the ass

DJJordache
07-11-2006, 11:48 PM
Bottom line with a NON STROKER motor there's not alot to gain by switching out the 96's intake w/ the 99 and newer ?
Mostly a benifit for the earlier ZJ's then (or a stroked motor)?
hate to say it but yeah thats pretty much it, b/c of the earlier ones updating to the newer fuel system and most people probably won't do all the extra machine work on the manifold that I did also, but if you manage to get one for cheap I'd still get it

Varkyl
08-06-2006, 12:49 PM
I just finished this swap on a stock '96 motor. Along with installing a 62mm TB, new injectors and sensors. And am pleased with the results. While it doesn't have neck snapping power it did pick up nicely. Throttle response is crisp and freeway cruising is easier than ever before.

RanCid
12-09-2006, 01:08 AM
I have a 99 intake, fuel rail, pulley, powerstering pump w/ hoses and throttle body out of an XJ which i am about to try installing in my 91 YJ w/ a recently rebuilt 4.0 (now actually 4.1 L) that has a performance cam.

Has anyone ever tried this intake mod in a YJ?

I have noticed that the new fuel rail only has a single fuel connection whereas my old YJ fuel rail has 2...was this an issue for anyone else? Did i miss something here?

any thoughts?

RAN

DJJordache
12-09-2006, 10:34 AM
I have a 99 intake, fuel rail, pulley, powerstering pump w/ hoses and throttle body out of an XJ which i am about to try installing in my 91 YJ w/ a recently rebuilt 4.0 (now actually 4.1 L) that has a performance cam.

Has anyone ever tried this intake mod in a YJ?

I have noticed that the new fuel rail only has a single fuel connection whereas my old YJ fuel rail has 2...was this an issue for anyone else? Did i miss something here?

any thoughts?

RAN
if yours is 91 then it won't be any different than putting this on a 91+ 4.0L head and won't matter TJYJXJZJ. just reuse your old fuel rail (I did this) not the new one. 95 and older have the 2 fuel connections.

Matt
06-09-2007, 11:22 PM
Did the swap last weekend. I was able to get the ZJ out today and I can tell a difference. Has more high end horsepower. Going up the inclines I CAN ACTUALLY ACCELERATE!!!! :D

I did get a check engine light, (TPS sensor and Idle sensor) but I had Vatozone clear them and it hasn't been on since.

For the $70 I paid, very worth it.

DJJordache
06-10-2007, 03:53 PM
sounds good! and it is possible to find them for even cheaper than that if you look hard enough. I'm glad you could tell a difference with your "butt dyno" I too noticed a large difference at higher rpm but I did a few more things to mine too:D

RadioPatrol
07-27-2007, 02:45 AM
DJJordache - Awesome Write Up .... Do you have any Idea how the Banks Header compares to the Borla ? I do not see a current listing for Banks Header for a WJ / XJ - only a YJ aka wrangler .........


http://store.bankspower.com/Categories.aspx?Category=fa2d06e6-54c0-4f13-ac80-a5177c59d9ce


I am currently swapping a worn out 94 4.0 HO for a 01 w/26k miles and looking to make improvements b4 it goes back in, and I have been scouring the net :smt120 looking for flow data for heads , the 94 7120 will get redone, or replaced with another 7120 casting if I can get a better deal online then the #'s I am getting quoted to get it rebuilt.
Anyhow Thanks for any info you have ............

DJJordache
07-27-2007, 08:08 AM
DJJordache - Awesome Write Up .... Do you have any Idea how the Banks Header compares to the Borla ? I do not see a current listing for Banks Header for a WJ / XJ - only a YJ aka wrangler .........

I am currently swapping a worn out 94 4.0 HO for a 01 w/26k miles and looking to make improvements b4 it goes back in, and I have been scouring the net :smt120 looking for flow data for heads , the 94 7120 will get redone, or replaced with another 7120 casting if I can get a better deal online then the #'s I am getting quoted to get it rebuilt.
Anyhow Thanks for any info you have ............


Banks lists that you can put that header on up to a 01 grand. if i remember correctly the later grands have precats built into the headers and thats why they don't list for those years.
The banks/APN one is nice b/c it will bolt up to the stock head pipe and that is convenient for most people, or you can get a custom head pipe to go after the header. The borla, since it is long tube will be better at producing more torque at lower rpms. My brother has a modified borla on his stroker, i say modified since we cut off the small collector and tweaked it to have a 3" output for the most flow.

RadioPatrol
07-27-2007, 12:41 PM
kewl Thanks for the INFO

RadioPatrol
07-27-2007, 01:15 PM
What did it cost you to get your head done ? ie the Big Valves ..........

DJJordache
07-27-2007, 02:24 PM
honestly i don't remember exactly right now.... I did the port and polish on teh head myself but the head valve work included: LS1 valves, seats, retainers, springs, stem guide reaming and some bowl blending work. I'll have to dig around to find the paper work that I have somewhere for the price....

RadioPatrol
08-16-2007, 07:09 PM
DJJordace - do you have a part # on those Chevy LS-1 Valves ......

DJJordache
08-17-2007, 08:12 AM
DJJordace - do you have a part # on those Chevy LS-1 Valves ......
I think so.... I gotta find the paper work, but I'm pretty sure they are just the normal SBC LS1 valves 2.02/1.60, but I'll see if I can find the numbers

RadioPatrol
08-17-2007, 01:24 PM
I think so.... I gotta find the paper work, but I'm pretty sure they are just the normal SBC LS1 valves 2.02/1.60, but I'll see if I can find the numbers

thanks I am looking on Ebay, and specs are different / confusing

I understand the basics, but not everyone is using the same info

11/32 stems , standard length or .100 longer ....... and then of course their is 350 SBC, LS-1 - i know and LS 1 is a hi po 350, but modernized with roller cams and a new block heads ..... Honestly I have not kept up on the new tech.

I am 41 and like the older stuff


Thanks for Your help

Exodus
08-25-2007, 09:41 PM
So, does anyone have a dyno for a stroker AND the intake manifold yet?

kleake
01-23-2008, 05:45 PM
I am getting ready to order my new exhaust manifold and figured I would do the intake swap at the same time. I have a 94, all stock engine at the moment. If I swap the intake, and power steering components, can I run the stock injectors? I am guessing that I can, and then in the future upgrade pressure and injectors. Injectors are just too expensive at the moment after doing all the other stuff. Otherwise it looks like a pretty straight forward swap. I may even modify the throttle body while i'm at it since I have a drill press and the equipment.

DJJordache
01-24-2008, 09:55 AM
ok so your saying that you want to swap the newer 99+ intake and the new 96+ power steering components and keep your existing injectors and existing fuel pressure regulator right? then yes that is totally do able without any problems!:D

Edit: I hope your not paying extra for the banks header! I have one and it's cracked bad.... I'm pulling it out and rewelding it this weekend hopefully.... get the MUCH cheaper APN header, basically the same thing but cheaper

bigred_topher
02-18-2008, 04:03 PM
i've read through this post 3 times now and i'm super stoked to get mine done... i've got a bone stock 4.0 and am ready for something to build off of!!! i think this is going to be great with my tb spacer and intake!!! just gotta get the cash now. :D

96_zjlarado
03-04-2008, 03:57 AM
I think so.... I gotta find the paper work, but I'm pretty sure they are just the normal SBC LS1 valves 2.02/1.60, but I'll see if I can find the numbers

did you happen to find that paperwork yet? I plan on refreshing my 4.sl0 while i'm on sabbatical and wouldn't mind throwing the head at my machinist for the valve upgrade. It's gonna get a KKK-K26 turbo thrown on it and some mustang injectors with an AEM fuel controller tossed on it to manage everything. all i have to do is find a 99+ intake mani locally that the person doesn't want an arm and a leg for.
Thanks in advance man.

Matt
03-04-2008, 04:04 AM
i've read through this post 3 times now and i'm super stoked to get mine done... i've got a bone stock 4.0 and am ready for something to build off of!!! i think this is going to be great with my tb spacer and intake!!! just gotta get the cash now. :D

It'll help out to get a fastman 62mm throttle body if you're not happy with the results. A great quick and easy mod.

bigred_topher
03-04-2008, 03:34 PM
i think i'm going to try to bore out the stock tb to 60mm first and see how that does....anyone got a 99+ intake they want to get rid of????

DJJordache
03-05-2008, 04:55 PM
yeah sorry about that! I forgot to get the numbers for ya! I'm in Vegas right now setting up for a show but when I get home I'll get you some info!

bigred_topher
03-17-2008, 11:21 AM
got my apn header today and just ordered the 99 intake and got another throttlebody to bore out yesturday...once the intake gets here then i'm doing the damn thing and we'll see how it all comes out!!!

DJJordache
03-18-2008, 09:39 AM
sounds good:D

And I could not find any numbers or a brand name on my valves... They are just the normal 2.02 intake and 1.60 exhaust LS1 valves and keepers.

ttkammer
05-03-2008, 12:08 PM
GREAT INFO ON THE INTAKE SWAP! I just purchased a used intake from a 2001 GC 4.0 for $50 (score). After reading all the posts (and looking at my mom's '99 XJ), it looks like the swap onto my '98 is going to be pretty straight-forward. I do have a few additional question I was hoping y'all could help out with.

It appears that my '98 has the largest injectors (the '96-'98 #53030778 23.2lb/hr @ 49psi style). They are larger in diameter in the mid-section of the injector, but appear to be the same diameter at the base. Am I safe to assume that they will drop right into the new manifold with just new o-rings, utilizing the '98 fuel rail, brackets, clips, etc... ?

Do you think it is necessary to grind off the "bumps" on the inside of the ports (as outlined earlier)? I am a little nervous about grinding too much out of the manifold.

It also appears that the power steering pump bracket will be a direct swap. Anything I should look out for?

I also have a brand new K&N FIPK cold air intake waiting to be installed when I do the swap. This has not been on the vehicle yet. Can anyone think of any problems I am going to run into if I install this cold air intake when I do the swap?

I am also considering a bored throttle body (my new/used manifold came with the TB from the '01 GC, so I have an extra that I can send out to have bored to 62mm), but I have heard that this can mess with the computer (specifically the manifold air pressure). I have heard that this change causes the transmission to shift at the wrong times (and shift sloppily when it does). Any thoughts on this one?

I am also considering a throttle body spacer (specifically, the thicker Hesco one), but have heard there can be a few problems with this too. I have heard there is the manifold air pressure problem (again, affecting the transmission performance), and also a problem with the height of the TB with the new K&N system on it. I hear it is too high and the hood will not close. Anyone dealt with this issue?

Do you think flashing/resetting the computer and letting it re-learn will fix this, or will these changes be too far out of the "curve"? I have done this a few times with no problems, but don't know once such a big change has been made to the air intake system.

Other than the laundry list of questions I have already posted, it looks like I will need to increase the length of the MAT sensor wires (different location on the manifold), and one of the vacuum lines that runs from the manifold over to the AC tank area. Anything other wires/lines/hoses that you can think of that I need to address?

Thanking y'all in advance!

TK

'98 XJ
cardomain page: http://www.cardomain.com/ride/703091
2" Lift / 30x9.50 BFG AT's
Fire-Power Ignition System
Magnaflow Cat
Flowmaster Muffler

DJJordache
05-03-2008, 04:46 PM
It appears that my '98 has the largest injectors (the '96-'98 #53030778 23.2lb/hr @ 49psi style). They are larger in diameter in the mid-section of the injector, but appear to be the same diameter at the base. Am I safe to assume that they will drop right into the new manifold with just new o-rings, utilizing the '98 fuel rail, brackets, clips, etc... ? yes your stock injectors will plug right into the newer manifold and you can reuse your stock fuel rail also. I would recommend getting new orings on the injectors while your that far in and they are already out.


Do you think it is necessary to grind off the "bumps" on the inside of the ports (as outlined earlier)? I am a little nervous about grinding too much out of the manifold. that is up to you.... I was going for max possible flow and I ground them down since they were a restriction. It's up to you whether or not your willing to grind them down or accidentally grind through the manifold....


It also appears that the power steering pump bracket will be a direct swap. Anything I should look out for? nope nothing special just a straight swap on 96+ 4.0L's. just take your time and organize the bolts so you can remember where they all came from.


I also have a brand new K&N FIPK cold air intake waiting to be installed when I do the swap. This has not been on the vehicle yet. Can anyone think of any problems I am going to run into if I install this cold air intake when I do the swap? the K&N will not know the difference and will not matter what intake manifold it hooks up to. the TB's are in the same locations on both manifolds.


I am also considering a bored throttle body (my new/used manifold came with the TB from the '01 GC, so I have an extra that I can send out to have bored to 62mm), but I have heard that this can mess with the computer (specifically the manifold air pressure). I have heard that this change causes the transmission to shift at the wrong times (and shift sloppily when it does). Any thoughts on this one? as long as the 01 TB looks just like your TB then it will be a straight swap if you have the spare one bored out.
There is not change in transmission shifting just by swapping in a bored TB.... those that had that issue must have screwed up the throttle valve cable adjustment to the transmission. I had no change in shifting and neither did my brothers stroker XJ or 4 other friends XJ's and YJ's that I have done this to.


I am also considering a throttle body spacer (specifically, the thicker Hesco one), but have heard there can be a few problems with this too. I have heard there is the manifold air pressure problem (again, affecting the transmission performance), and also a problem with the height of the TB with the new K&N system on it. I hear it is too high and the hood will not close. Anyone dealt with this issue? TB spacers are a waste..... I have one only b/c I got it for $10, and installed it just as a butt dyno test and noticed no difference in anything.... go ahead if you want to and get it CHEAP. do not pay alot for one of these... its not worth it!
I don't know if there is a height issue with a tb spacer and a K&N... I don't use a K&N filter anymore.... they let too much dirt through, even when freshly cleaned and oiled with a K&N filter cleaning kit.


Do you think flashing/resetting the computer and letting it re-learn will fix this, or will these changes be too far out of the "curve"? I have done this a few times with no problems, but don't know once such a big change has been made to the air intake system.
During the swap it would be better to disco the battery just in case while your messing with that electronics stuff anyways for safety. when you reconnect the battery it will be reset already and ready to learn.


Other than the laundry list of questions I have already posted, it looks like I will need to increase the length of the MAT sensor wires (different location on the manifold), and one of the vacuum lines that runs from the manifold over to the AC tank area. Anything other wires/lines/hoses that you can think of that I need to address?
various vacuum lines will need to be rerouted and or extended, but most auto stores has vacuum line and tees so you can hook it up however you like. it doesn't really matter how it is hooked up, as long as the items needing vacuum get the needed vacuum to work correctly. this is also a good time to replace old rubber vacuum lines that may be cracked from age.

mendelmax
04-18-2009, 06:45 PM
Sorry for bringing back the old thread, but I have just finished the swap on the 93 4.6 stroker and I have to say "WOW", that made a really sensible difference. Probably not as big as this modded 4.0 shown on the dyno, because my head is still quite restrictive, but it was worth the effort nonetheless!

Also, I have to say that this was a great write-up to follow!

BTW, I found it possible to leave the old idler pulley on the AC bracket, so I left it there since it helps some with the alternator-to-belt contact. Not much, but since I had it anyways, then why not just leave it there ;)

opusgamma
04-18-2009, 09:19 PM
Good evening all. this has been a wonderful educational tool for me.. thanks to all that have participate along the years this thread has been open.
I have a 88xj that i am in the process of doing a engine swap to a 2002 4.0l engine.
The engine came with is it fuel rail and manifol but my mechanic told me it would not work with my renix since i am keeping all my old computer stuff..
I was wodering if can stay with the new injectors and the new header sicne i dont see hwo is that coencted to my computer...

I cna do the adjustment on the powrsterrign if need .. but i would realy whant to stay with what is new...my old engine was abuse before i got it...so thi is my new baby and i ll like ot do as manny updates as posible. I got the extra part already.. what you guys think... do you need picutres?

mendelmax
04-19-2009, 04:15 AM
For the new injectors you would have to change fuel rail pressure.

You would also have to find a bored Renix TB since the one from the 99+ won't work. other than that I also can't see no problem about it.

DJJordache
04-19-2009, 02:46 PM
I don't know a ton about the newer 02 style fuel system...... but on my brothers renix XJ 4.7L stroker we installed new fuel lines from a 91+ XJ and plumbed those to a HO fuel rail, which will bolt to the 99+ intake manifold. doing it this way you can keep the newer injectors (as long as they are matching your fuel rail pressure)
I have also HEARD that a fuel pressure regulator from a 93 Eagle Vision TSI w/3.5L v6, factory set for 48 PSI and member EYESIC on here said he is using it on his:
Don't waste money on an adjustable Fuel Pressure Regulator when you want 49 PSI from a '95 or older setup. I found a FPR from a 93 Eagle Vision TSI w/3.5L v6, fastory set for 48 PSI. In actuallity, it runs at 46 psi idling with vacum connected, and 54 psi idling with it disconnected. NO PINGING, zero zilch nada.so for future reference trying this is much cheaper than the FPR from Hesco, but I have not personally verified that it is spec'd out at 49 psi but would be worth the try if you have the fuel pressure gauges to make sure!

as for the throttle body anything is possible as long as you feed the computer the correct signals. on our 4.7stroker it is using a 68mm tb from a 4.7L v8 and just adapted the stock renix sensors onto the newer TB

opusgamma
04-19-2009, 07:20 PM
thanks but let me see if i get it..
I cna leave the engine as is with then fuel rail from the 02 with its manifold and injectors ..i believe it brings its fuel pressure regulator.. and also its wiring harness.. and jsut conecto to my renix pc.. correct?
I just need to check if i am getting the amount of fuel preasure corect?

mendelmax
04-25-2009, 12:25 PM
99+ has it's fuel regulator near the tank, it's not bolted to the fuel rail. But it is doable to get the regulator (it's together with the filter) and plug it into your fuel lines. I'd rather prefer to get the adjustable regulator though- good for future mods, and not so much expensive. And you keep the gas flow through the rail.

sev
10-19-2009, 03:58 AM
So after 2 years of playing with the idea, I finally did this swap today. Was pretty straightforward and with my buddy's gracious help we got everything put on with minimal fuss....... except for the belt!!! How the hell do you route that thing??! Im using the gatorback belt recommended by the original poster...

No matter what we tried the belt keeps rubbing up on the timing mark indicator on the crank pulley!

Here's some pics... I had to push the ZJ into the garage and give up for the night.. Any ideas?

http://i509.photobucket.com/albums/s339/tetatdo/IMG_2766.jpg




http://i509.photobucket.com/albums/s339/tetatdo/IMG_2767.jpg
(http://s509.photobucket.com/albums/s339/tetatdo/?action=view&current=IMG_2767.jpg)

DJJordache
10-19-2009, 11:54 AM
oh yeah. I talked about this in another thread but forgot to put it here too:

About the timing cover thing.... I didn't realize it on my swap and the belt sounded like a supercharger whine which was cool but ate 2 ribs on the expensive Gatorback belt:mad: so now it's my spare
this is what would have happened if you didn't clearance that timing thingy:
http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c367/djjordache/beltgrind.jpg

Just clearnace that tab with a die grinder or something and you will be just fine!

sev
10-19-2009, 01:46 PM
The tab is used for adjusting timing right? Do all 93-95's have it? i havent heard of anyone else having this problem?

DJJordache
10-19-2009, 07:26 PM
it's not needed... the dist cap is not index-able (stock) and the computer takes care of the timing.

BC Jeep
10-31-2009, 09:39 PM
DJJordache

When porting a 98 Cylinder head intake and exhaust ports, how do you know whats too much? I see that you matched the gasket. No problem there but, are there any THIN casting areas to avoid?

Who did your valve work and how involved was it?

Just dont want to make a 4.0 head paper weight. ;)

Thanks

Bill

DJJordache
11-01-2009, 11:01 AM
I port matched to the gasket and even trimmed that some, hard to say how much meat there is without going too far, but yes my buddy got over excited and made a paper weight from his going WAY too far. There is a lot of material to work with especially at the port ends.
Be careful and you should be ok... take most of the material from the port ends and blend deeper from there.

As for the valve work I had that done at Longs Machine Shop in San Antonio, TX contact info is on the first page, any place should be able to do it.
I used the LS1 2.02 1.60 valves since they are cheaper than the 5.9L 2.02 1.60 mopar valves and have a thicker stem to them. The only thing special they did was drilling out the valve guides for the thicker stems and machining for the LS1 valve guides. Other than that it was just the normal valve job steps.

sev
12-02-2009, 07:46 PM
BTW for refeence, I bought both the 99 and 94 manifold gaskets. Comparing the both, the 94 was a much better fit..

DJJordache
12-02-2009, 07:56 PM
I just port matched the one that came with my header

DJJordache
12-11-2009, 10:21 AM
blah blah blah I'm retarded!
THIS IS NOT A FOR SALE THREAD ASSHOLE!:mad:

sev
01-08-2010, 08:10 PM
THIS IS NOT A FOR SALE THREAD ASSHOLE!:mad:


Hey DJ Jordache or anyone else that's done this mod. Where can I get an adjustable fuel pressure regulator..and/or the correct fuel pressure regulator for a 94...?

DJJordache
01-08-2010, 08:53 PM
Hey DJ Jordache or anyone else that's done this mod. Where can I get an adjustable fuel pressure regulator..and/or the correct fuel pressure regulator for a 94...?


see post 81 for a possible alternative, although I have NOT confirmed this but it might be a MUCH cheaper alternative

or get the Hesco one:
http://www.hesco.us/shop.asp?action=details&inventoryID=43022&catId=7973

jeep7081
01-27-2010, 03:25 AM
New here. I have read through the thread and maybe missed something. I am getting parts to do a stroker to my Jeep YJ '93 HO 4.0l motor and found this site :)

Question? I see the shopping cartlist below.

1. What happen to parts 1-3? Are those the power steering pump?
2. What year manifold? 2000+ is fine?
3. Just manifold is needed or injectors or fuel rail?
4. Which TB do I use? the '93 or the 2000?
Anything else needed or direct bolt on after parts in hand? Remember, I have a YJ. Not sure if there is a difference on what I need?

Parts list form page #1
Part Numbers for the steering portion of the intake swap for pre 96 4.0L’s
Part number Dealer name for part Price at my dealer
4. 34202029 bolt-hex f 136c 2.95
5. 33002201 bushing-id 114b 3.35
6. 4792112 pulley 116e 20.50 (Normal ZJ idler pulley)
7. 6503230 spacer-bel 2.70
8. 53010148 bracket 15.50
9. 53010149 sleeve-ten 5.60
10. 6503198 bolt 8.75
11. Reuse yours or hardware store
Total for the power steering parts if purchased at dealer: $59.35
*serpentine belt part number 4060922 / 6PK2345 Goodyear Gatorback.

DJJordache
01-27-2010, 07:28 PM
your 93 YJ should be just like my swap... IIRC the YJ is the same orientation as the single fan setup of the 4.0L ZJ. so the part number for the belt might be the same.... dunno about that but it will be the 96+ belt routing not your 93 routing.

Q1. parts
1. is the pump - yes get a 96+ to match the ps pump bracket
2. is the pulley - you can reuse yours or if you get a junkyard pump that has a pulley that is about the same, size use it
3. = 8, just a different drawing

Q2.
years 99-01 XJ 99-04 WJ 99-06 TJ

Q3.
injectors up to you - I did but also upgraded to the Hesco FPR to get 49psi
fuel rail - reuse yours

Q4. TB
reuse yours and/or bore it out on a drill press or by hand to remove the taper below he butterfly to get 60mm all the way through

Parts prices are probably higher now so to keep it cheap go to the junkyard and you can get them there also

my buddy is about to do this too in his stroker 93 YJ :D

jeep7081
01-27-2010, 08:52 PM
Direct bolt on or modifications needed for pump and bracket (96+)

Thanks for your replies.

MUDDTRACKS
01-28-2010, 03:53 AM
To bad you dont live close by my buddy is going to spend this after noon boring tb out to 61 mm for 20 bucks a pop

jeep7081
01-28-2010, 03:56 AM
That's a good deal! BUMMER!

DJJordache
01-28-2010, 09:44 PM
Direct bolt on or modifications needed for pump and bracket (96+)

Thanks for your replies.
the whole swap is all bolt on

zjeepin
03-12-2010, 12:42 PM
i have a 99 and up intake i'd like to install and im definately more inclined to bore my own TB than pay for one...

the only question i have about boring it out is how you get the butterfly to match the new bore?

thanks

DJJordache
03-12-2010, 01:43 PM
if you want it larger than 60mm you have to:
a. buy one already bored
b. build your own butterfly

if your good with 60mm just bore out the taper under the butteryfly

zjeepin
03-12-2010, 01:52 PM
so you dont have to bore the upper part of the tb?

DJJordache
03-12-2010, 02:00 PM
if your good with 60mm then, yes the taper (55mm) starts BELOW the butterfly so as long as your careful you don't need to do ANYTHING to the butterfly.

DJJordache
03-12-2010, 02:02 PM
go here for more info and ideas but I did it with a steady hand and going very slow with a drill press. if you use a drill press don't side load it much as it's not meat to be used as a mill:
http://www.go.jeep-xj.info/HowtoTBboring.htm

zjeepin
03-27-2010, 08:26 AM
so maybe my intelligence is lacking but i can't find what part number belt to run with the new intake

DJJordache
03-27-2010, 09:44 AM
so maybe my intelligence is lacking but i can't find what part number belt to run with the new intake
yep lacking haha
first post

I also had to get a new serpentine belt part number 4060922 / 6PK2345 Goodyear Gatorback. AKA the same as the 96-98 4.0's ZJ's

K2
04-19-2010, 11:12 AM
I just called the stealership and the "bracket" was $105!! I dont know if that came with everything, as they told me it was on back order and I was busy putting my eyes back in and my jaw off the floor.

ajmorell
04-19-2010, 12:11 PM
I just called the stealership and the "bracket" was $105!! I dont know if that came with everything, as they told me it was on back order and I was busy putting my eyes back in and my jaw off the floor.

Which bracket are you referring to? The one for the power steering pump? If so I think I have one sitting around I can hook you up with.

K2
04-19-2010, 02:10 PM
Which bracket are you referring to? The one for the power steering pump? If so I think I have one sitting around I can hook you up with.

Yes, thats the one. This is the one for a 99+ right? Do you have the pulleys and bolts to? I am having trouble finding one in a yard.

zjeepin
04-19-2010, 04:38 PM
I just called the stealership and the "bracket" was $105!! I dont know if that came with everything, as they told me it was on back order and I was busy putting my eyes back in and my jaw off the floor.


i'd call another dealership.. they have different pricing schedules from location to location. if you can call one with some competition

K2
04-19-2010, 08:00 PM
i'd call another dealership.. they have different pricing schedules from location to location. if you can call one with some competition

I usually do, but they were way more than I had anticipated. I did finally find one at a yard for $35. Things to note.

The "usual ZJ idler pulley" may not all be usual. The ones from my 95 have back spacing, while the one from the bracket has negative back spacing. Also, I am about to try it, but I think my 95 style pump will fit this bracket.

DJJordache
04-19-2010, 08:41 PM
wow that pricing is WAY out of line!

I have run into the idler pulley issue before where at orielly auto I bought 2 pulleys and one was one way and the other was correct. Keep trying til you get the correct style with the spacer bushing.

K2
04-19-2010, 11:06 PM
The bracket came with the parts, bolts and pulley. That's where I could see they were different. Pumps are different. The 3 bolts that hold the pump to the bracket are different. On mine, 95-, there are 3 on the front, and 2 in back, all are threaded. I am guessing, by the bracket, that the 96+ is 3 through holes. front to rear. I moded my intake by drilling it out and bolting from the back, and I have one that will go through since there is none on the back side. I do need to shave some of the housing to get a bolt past, but it should all work.

zjeepin
04-20-2010, 08:21 AM
my 95 pump bolted up.. mostly, there was 1 hole on the pump iirc that didn't line up. IMO 2 bolts in the front and 2 in the back is plenty for the powersteering pump..

i did notice that the idler pulleys have different backspacing however and now my serp belt keeps wanting to walk off the front of the ps pulley, ive adjusted how far the ps pulley is pressed onto the pump and it seems to be slowing the belt walk down significantly.

anybody got thoughts on the belt walk?

DJJordache
04-20-2010, 09:13 AM
I used the 96+ pump and have 0 issues with belt walk. There might be a difference in pulley mounting position between the pumps.

zjeepin
04-20-2010, 09:47 AM
I used the 96+ pump and have 0 issues with belt walk. There might be a difference in pulley mounting position between the pumps.


can you post a pic of how far your pulley is pressed onto the pump shaft. my pulley is flush with the end of the pump shaft. im probably going to pull it back about 1/8 or so and try it again.

K2
04-20-2010, 07:39 PM
my 95 pump bolted up.. mostly, there was 1 hole on the pump iirc that didn't line up. IMO 2 bolts in the front and 2 in the back is plenty for the powersteering pump..

i did notice that the idler pulleys have different backspacing however and now my serp belt keeps wanting to walk off the front of the ps pulley, ive adjusted how far the ps pulley is pressed onto the pump and it seems to be slowing the belt walk down significantly.

anybody got thoughts on the belt walk?

I was looking at that. Mine looks to be in a little bit as well. I was hoping it wouldn't be an issue, but I am worried, especially since you seem to have had that problem.

DJJordache
04-21-2010, 01:56 PM
can you post a pic of how far your pulley is pressed onto the pump shaft. my pulley is flush with the end of the pump shaft. im probably going to pull it back about 1/8 or so and try it again.
yeah no prob. I'll get one at lunch

DJJordache
04-21-2010, 02:05 PM
ok that was faster that I thought I could break away:D
I couldn't find a good camera at work so I ran out real quick and got a cell pic for ya.

K2
04-21-2010, 05:24 PM
Wow mine is flush, I will be pulling it out real quick like!

zjeepin
04-22-2010, 07:51 AM
yep my pulley was much further in that yours. mine is probably 1/8" out from the end of the shaft since i pulled it out a little and when i test drove it last night the belt didn't walk so it looks like problem solved.. thanks!

jeep7081
08-12-2010, 08:50 PM
Went with the Dodge Neon injectors. They have 4-hole instead of Jeep's single hole. Great feedback on those doing it. Manifold is next. Question, fuel pressure regulator for the 49psi came off what year? If fit your 1993 4.0 w/out issue?

Thanks

DJJordache
08-12-2010, 09:15 PM
Question, fuel pressure regulator for the 49psi came off what year? If fit your 1993 4.0 w/out issue?

The FPR fits just like the stock one



Hesco adjustable fuel pressure regulator for the 91-95 4.0L adjusted to the newer pressure, required of the new style injectors of 49PSI



I have also HEARD that a fuel pressure regulator from a 93 Eagle Vision TSI w/3.5L v6, factory set for 48 PSI and member EYESIC on here said he is using it on his:so for future reference trying this is much cheaper than the FPR from Hesco, but I have not personally verified that it is spec'd out at 49 psi but would be worth the try if you have the fuel pressure gauges to make sure!



Don't waste money on an adjustable Fuel Pressure Regulator when you want 49 PSI from a '95 or older setup. I found a FPR from a 93 Eagle Vision TSI w/3.5L v6, fastory set for 48 PSI. In actuallity, it runs at 46 psi idling with vacum connected, and 54 psi idling with it disconnected. NO PINGING, zero zilch nada.

jeep7081
08-12-2010, 09:17 PM
The FPR fits just like the stock one

Great reply! Thanks for taking the time.

DJJordache
08-12-2010, 09:22 PM
Great reply! Thanks for taking the time.
no problem!:D

jeep7081
08-12-2010, 09:36 PM
Hope this helps.

Copy & paste
Chrysler 4418850 or 5277829 or 5277864.

This regulator will bump the pressure up to 40 idle 48PSI at WOT.

Also run at 48psi...

Here is a list of cars that use this regulator:

CHRYSLER CONCORDE V6 3.5 F FI 1993-1995
CHRYSLER CONCORDE LX V6 3.5 F FI 1996-1997
CHRYSLER CONCORDE LXI V6 3.5 F FI 1996-1997
CHRYSLER DYNASTY V6 3.3 R FI 1991-1993
CHRYSLER IMPERIAL V6 3.3 R FI 1990-1991
CHRYSLER IMPERIAL V6 3.8 L FI 1991-1993
CHRYSLER INTREPID V6 3.5 F FI 1993-1997
CHRYSLER INTREPID ES V6 3.5 F FI 1995-1996
CHRYSLER LHS V6 3.5 F FI 1994-1997
CHRYSLER NEW YORKER V6 3.5 F FI 1994-1996
CHRYSLER NEW YORKER FIFTH AVENUE V6 3.3 R FI 1990-1993
CHRYSLER NEW YORKER FIFTH AVENUE V6 3.8 L FI 1991-1993
CHRYSLER NEW YORKER LANDAU V6 3.3 R FI 1990
CHRYSLER NEW YORKER SALON V6 3.3 R FI 1990-1993
CHRYSLER TC MASERATI V6 3.0 S FI 1990
CHRYSLER TOWN & COUNTRY V6 3.3 R FI 1990-1993
CHRYSLER TOWN & COUNTRY V6 3.8 L FI 1994-1995

DODGE CARAVAN V6 3.3 J FI 1994-1995
DODGE CARAVAN V6 3.3 R FI 1990-1995
DODGE CARAVAN C/V V6 3.3 J FI 1994-1995
DODGE CARAVAN C/V V6 3.3 R FI 1991-1992
DODGE CARAVAN ES V6 3.3 R FI 1993-1995
DODGE CARAVAN LE V6 3.3 R FI 1991-1995
DODGE CARAVAN SE V6 3.3 J FI 1994-1995
DODGE CARAVAN SE V6 3.3 R FI 1991-1995
DODGE DYNASTY V6 3.3 R FI 1990-1993
DODGE DYNASTY LE V6 3.3 R FI 1990-1993
DODGE GRAND CARAVAN ES V6 3.3 R FI 1993-1995
DODGE GRAND CARAVAN ES V6 3.8 L FI 1994-1995
DODGE GRAND CARAVAN LE V6 3.3 R FI 1990-1995

DODGE GRAND CARAVAN LE V6 3.8 L FI 1994-1995
DODGE GRAND CARAVAN SE V6 3.3 R FI 1990-1995
DODGE INTREPID V6 3.5 F FI 1993-1997
DODGE INTREPID ES V6 3.5 F FI 1993-1997
DODGE SPIRIT L4 2.5 V FI 1994
EAGLE VISION ESI V6 3.5 F FI 1995-1997
EAGLE VISION TSI V6 3.5 F FI 1993-1997
PLYMOUTH ACCLAIM L4 2.5 V FI 1994
PLYMOUTH GRAND VOYAGER LE V6 3.3 R FI 1990-1995
PLYMOUTH GRAND VOYAGER LE V6 3.8 L FI 1994-1995
PLYMOUTH GRAND VOYAGER SE V6 3.3 R FI 1990-1994
PLYMOUTH GRAND VOYAGER SE V6 3.8 L FI 1995
PLYMOUTH PROWLER V6 3.5 F FI 1997
PLYMOUTH VOYAGER V6 3.3 J FI 1994-1995
PLYMOUTH VOYAGER V6 3.3 R FI 1995

PLYMOUTH VOYAGER LE V6 3.3 R FI 1991-1995
PLYMOUTH VOYAGER LX V6 3.3 R FI 1994
PLYMOUTH VOYAGER SE V6 3.3 J FI 1994
PLYMOUTH VOYAGER SE V6 3.3 R FI 1991-1995

http://www.cherokeeforum.com/f2/more-budget-injector-upgrade-questions-13848/index8/

jeep7081
08-30-2010, 09:28 AM
Put the injectors in. Also put the new FPR in. Pretty straight forward. Wow what a difference! I did the Neon injectors and also rebuild them with new orings, caps, AND filters. The rebuild kit was $28 well worth it.

Nice power gain, easier starts. Well worth it.

Only thing I noticed last night was a strange smell. Maybe from the oil I put on the orings, not sure. It went away after I shut the motor off. Noticed it as I pulled in the garage after a drive to buddy house. Any ideas?

DJJordache
08-30-2010, 08:51 PM
happens every time you get oily hands on everything after working on mods. don't worry about it unless you smell gas!

jeep7081
08-30-2010, 09:14 PM
No gas.

sev
08-31-2010, 03:05 PM
I finally put the FPR from the 3.5L and the injectors in as well. Its a noticeable, difference! But there is a flat spot between idle and about 2500-2700 rpm, any way to adress this?

jeep7081
08-31-2010, 03:34 PM
More detail? I haven't noticed mine do that. The FPR is a 211? Neon injectors? Did you rebuild them or just o-rings?

sev
08-31-2010, 03:41 PM
No, im using the 2004 4.0L injectors, these are the actual ones that came with the 04 manifold. I just changed the o-rings, they were nearly new when I got them in 2007.

Yes, I put on a 211 FPR. It just seems to have no power until it hits 2500-2700 rpm, then it has a noticeable gain!

jeep7081
08-31-2010, 03:53 PM
I did the rebuild kit. From Mr Injector. $28. When I removed the internal filter they all were sooo bad. Glad I did it. Option #1

Option #2. The FPR was new for me.

Option #3. I replaced the fuel filter. I think it was bad. Noticed a difference.

Option #4. I have a k&n cold air intake. Maybe the more air is better a/f mixture? Trying removing your air lid to get more air in and see if it improves?

Option #5. Replace injectors with the new style posted on here. The new Ford style. Get them new on EBay for $59!
Another alternative for the stock 99-up 4.0L is the (22.8#=240cc @ 43.5psi) Ford XR3Z 9F593 A4B / XR3E 9F593 A4B (MOTORCRAFT #CM-4956 )which is the newest design and offer even better performance.

sev
09-01-2010, 01:58 PM
I did the rebuild kit. From Mr Injector. $28. When I removed the internal filter they all were sooo bad. Glad I did it. Option #1

Option #2. The FPR was new for me.

Option #3. I replaced the fuel filter. I think it was bad. Noticed a difference.

Option #4. I have a k&n cold air intake. Maybe the more air is better a/f mixture? Trying removing your air lid to get more air in and see if it improves?

Option #5. Replace injectors with the new style posted on here. The new Ford style. Get them new on EBay for $59!
Another alternative for the stock 99-up 4.0L is the (22.8#=240cc @ 43.5psi) Ford XR3Z 9F593 A4B / XR3E 9F593 A4B (MOTORCRAFT #CM-4956 )which is the newest design and offer even better performance.



Forgot to mention I have a FIPK, so the air induction is probably out. Man I must be behind the times, when i originally researched this project, everyone was saying use the 99+ injectors, now its Neon/ford injectors?? hmmm

ZJ TINS
09-01-2010, 02:07 PM
I thought 99+ were 19 lb/hr and the ford are 24 lb/hr?

sev
09-01-2010, 02:08 PM
I thought 99+ were 19 lb/hr and the ford are 24 lb/hr?

I was under the impression 99+ were 21-22lb/hr?

jeep7081
09-01-2010, 02:31 PM
I thought 99+ were 19 lb/hr and the ford are 24 lb/hr?

24# are if your motor is stroked. Otherwise it's too high.

19# on a HO motor is too lean.

Ford's come in 19# and 24#. Both on 4-hole design

Dodge Neon is 22.5#

On the 99+ the new style injector is 22.8# on new designed single hole (better than 4-hole design)
Here on EBay - $59 for 6 new ones.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/SIX-NEW-OEM-FUEL-INJECTORS-99-00-01-FORD-MUSTANG-3-8L-_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQhashZitem1c14a59845QQitemZ12060 5481029QQptZMotorsQ5fCarQ5fTruckQ5fPartsQ5fAccesso ries

Read this...It's light reading.
http://www.ausjeepoffroad.com/forum/showthread.php?t=92236

ajmorell
09-01-2010, 02:52 PM
On the 99+ the new style injector is 22.8# on new designed single hole (better than 4-hole design)
Here on EBay - $59 for 6 new ones.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/SIX-NEW-OEM-FUEL-INJECTORS-99-00-01-FORD-MUSTANG-3-8L-_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQhashZitem1c14a59845QQitemZ12060 5481029QQptZMotorsQ5fCarQ5fTruckQ5fPartsQ5fAccesso riest=92236[/URL]

Are these plug and play? I'm running a mildly built 4.0 (cam, 99+ intake, healthy exhaust) wondering if those would be worth my while.

jeep7081
09-01-2010, 03:06 PM
Yes, plug and play.

torchd
09-22-2010, 09:54 PM
Well I think I am going to tackle this project rather quickly here. So I want to make sure that before I do this, that I have all the right parts and what not.

First I have some questions..
-What is the best year for the intake. Or was it all the same for the 99-04 WJs?

-Can I use a 99+ TB or, should I use my OEM one? If I use my OEM TB, what's the biggest bore I can do to it? 60mm? And a TB spacer 60mm to?

-Exhaust manifold.. 99+ or my OEM one? I am thinking about wrapping it while I'm there

-I would imagine for the intake gasket that I want from a 99+ or do I want my year?

-I have FORD (FOTE-9F593-D9B) / BOSCH (280-150-561) 22# injectors. These are 43.5 psi with a 4 pintle design... Will those work?

-And I do not have to upgrade my PS bracket or pump. Mine will bolt right up


Parts List
99+ Intake Manifold
FPR
Intake Gasket (what year)
New Injectors????
TB Spacer (gains 76cc)
Anyhting else I am forgetting? Let me know

Thanks for the help!

jeep7081
09-22-2010, 11:07 PM
99+ for intake
Make sure you get the correct injectors for that. Here is a link I did a write up. Intake alone gained no hp on the dyno. Intake and injectors gained 26hp.
http://www.highdesertoverlanders.com/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=83

Dodge Neon are 22.8lb injectors. Stock HO 4.0l motor is 21lbs. Stock 4.0l motor is 19lbs

Don't forget to upgrade your FPR. For the new injectors. It's a single bolt to remove. My 2yr could do it.

DJJordache
09-23-2010, 09:06 AM
you could at LEAST tell us what your putting this on!

First I have some questions..
-What is the best year for the intake. Or was it all the same for the 99-04 WJs? all the same for 99-04 WJ, 99-01 XJ, 99-04? TJ


-Can I use a 99+ TB or, should I use my OEM one? If I use my OEM TB, what's the biggest bore I can do to it? 60mm? And a TB spacer 60mm to?you can use your OEM one, you can grind it out to 60mm easy or go buy one that is 62mm. TB spacers are crap, I only have one since it was close to free and I'm too lazy to pull it back off. but if you must 60-62mm is fine. the hole in the manifold is 62mm.


-Exhaust manifold.. 99+ or my OEM one? I am thinking about wrapping it while I'm thereOEM one, 99+ has the cat in the manifold


-I would imagine for the intake gasket that I want from a 99+ or do I want my year?get your year and port match it to the head and intake


-I have FORD (FOTE-9F593-D9B) / BOSCH (280-150-561) 22# injectors. These are 43.5 psi with a 4 pintle design... Will those work?should, I don't know if the hookup is the same as your stock one


-And I do not have to upgrade my PS bracket or pump. Mine will bolt right upwell you didn't tell us what your working on an I'm not psychic

DJJordache
09-23-2010, 09:15 AM
that video on that link was awesome
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bHf-6ohkgbA

torchd
09-23-2010, 11:34 AM
Sorry I don't know where to put info about my Jeep

I have a 98 (ZJ) 4.0 I6.. You know.. a power plant :smt081

torchd
09-23-2010, 08:45 PM
When I do this swap, would I benefit from using my OEM injectors or my Ford injectors??

My Jeep injectors: '96-'98 #53030778 23.2lb/hr @ 49psi

My Ford injectors: FORD (FOTE-9F593-D9B) / BOSCH (280-150-561) 22# injectors. These are 43.5 psi with a 4 pintle design

So my jeep has 1 hole for fuel to spray from where as the Ford injectors have 4 holes to spray from.

But the Jeep injectors have 2.2lb/hr and 5.5 psi more to them...

What do you think?

DJJordache
09-23-2010, 08:57 PM
I have a 98 (ZJ) 4.0 I6.. You know.. a power plant :smt081 easy bolt in swap


When I do this swap, would I benefit from using my OEM injectors or my Ford injectors??

My Jeep injectors: '96-'98 #53030778 23.2lb/hr @ 49psi

My Ford injectors: FORD (FOTE-9F593-D9B) / BOSCH (280-150-561) 22# injectors. These are 43.5 psi with a 4 pintle design

So my jeep has 1 hole for fuel to spray from where as the Ford injectors have 4 holes to spray from.

But the Jeep injectors have 2.2lb/hr and 5.5 psi more to them...

What do you think?
I would NEVER recommend to go to a lower flow injector. lean conditions are serious business. that 2.2lb/hr can be a real difference. I would not do it. if you have to have the 4 spray design, find the right spec injector

torchd
10-03-2010, 12:52 AM
99+ for intake
Make sure you get the correct injectors for that. Here is a link I did a write up. Intake alone gained no hp on the dyno. Intake and injectors gained 26hp.
http://www.highdesertoverlanders.com/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=83

Dodge Neon are 22.8lb injectors. Stock HO 4.0l motor is 21lbs. Stock 4.0l motor is 19lbs

Don't forget to upgrade your FPR. For the new injectors. It's a single bolt to remove. My 2yr could do it.
I am using my stock 98 injectors that are 23.2 lb/hr @ 49 psi.....

I really cannot to a FPR as it is located by my fuel pump

ec135crazy
08-25-2011, 08:40 PM
so did u just get this gain with the +99 intake and injectors? OR u got this gain with +99 intake AND head work?:confused::confused::confused:

sev
10-12-2011, 02:48 PM
Can anyone tell me what 2004 4.0L injectors are rated at? They are the bosch style, the thin black ones. I put these on and I have a feeling theyre not flowing enough.... Any ideas?

DJJordache
10-12-2011, 05:51 PM
Can anyone tell me what 2004 4.0L injectors are rated at? They are the bosch style, the thin black ones. I put these on and I have a feeling theyre not flowing enough.... Any ideas?
http://www.jeep4.0performance.4mg.com/tech_specs.html
Injectors
Some of those specs that are hard to find in any workshop manual.

The following is a list of the injectors used on the 4.0L since 1987 along with their rated static flow:

Model Year, ...Part #, ...........Colour, .....Fuel Pressure, ...Static Flow,
'87-'90, ........53003956, .........Black, ...........39psi, .................18.6lb/hr
'91-'93, ........33007127, .........Brown, ..........39psi, .................21.0lb/hr
'94-'95, ........53030343, .........Tan, ...............39psi, .................21.0lb/hr
'96-'98, ........53030778, .........Grey, .............49psi, .................23.3lb/hr
'99-'04, ........04854181, .........Blue tip, ........49psi, .................22.5lb/hr
'05-'06, ........53013690AA, ...Brown tip, .....49psi?, ...............23.3lb/hr?

The injector flow rate varies as the square root of the pressure drop across the injector. The stock '91-'95 4.0 injectors are rated at 22lb/hr @ 43psi fuel pressure, so at 39psi they flow ( sq. rt.(39/43) x 22.0 = 21.0 ).
For stock/modified 4.0 engines or stroker build-ups the following injectors can be installed. The flow rates are:

Ford Motorsport 19.0lb/hr @ 39psi (Part no. FMS-M9593-C302)
Ford Motorsport 24.0lb/hr @ 39psi (Part no. FMS-M9593-A302)
Ford Motorsport 30.0lb/hr @ 39psi (Part no. FMS-M9593-B302)
Chevy LT1 24.0lb/hr @ 43.5psi (Part no. 17124248)
Chevy LT4 28.0lb/hr @ 43.5psi (Part no. 17124251)
'98 Chevy LS1 25.2lb/hr @ 58.0psi (Part no. 12533952)
'99-'00 Chevy LS1 26.2lb/hr @ 58.0psi (Part no. 12456154)
'01-'02 Chevy LS1/LS6 28.6lb/hr @ 58.0psi (Part no. 12482704)
Accel 19.2lb/hr @ 44.1psi (ACC-150119)
Accel 21.1lb/hr @ 44.1psi (ACC-150121)
Accel 24.4lb/hr @ 44.1psi (ACC-150124)
Accel 25.6lb/hr @ 44.1psi (ACC-150126)
Accel 29.4lb/hr @ 44.1psi (ACC-150130)

The '95 Jeep 5.2 ZJ/Dodge 5.9 injectors (Part no. 53030262) are rated to flow 24.6lb/hr at 39psi.

The selection of injector size will depend on the estimated horsepower output, brake specific fuel consumption BSFC (assume 0.5), no. of cylinders, and the injector duty cycle (assume 80% or 0.8). The formula is:

Injector size (lb/hr) = (horsepower x 0.5)/(no.of cylinders x 0.8)