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nmzj
12-01-2005, 03:20 PM
No diagram, but you want to cross the straps or chain. 2 front, 2 rear. People differ on what to attach to either the axles or frame.

Personally, I use chain and attach to the axles.

TRXSZJ33
12-01-2005, 03:46 PM
so im lucky enough to be picking up a car trailer for an xmas present. was was wandering if someone had a diagram of how to strap down a jeep on the trailer. im pretty sure of how to do it just wanna make sure.

DJJordache
12-01-2005, 05:33 PM
duct tape and lots of it! and you will be good to go

nate
12-01-2005, 06:01 PM
http://98jeepzj.com/photos/images/285-2.jpg

Here is an example. That trailer is a 16ft and it's almost too short. It's hard to tell in that pic, but the back of the Jeep is hanging right at the end of the trailer. You have to keep an eye out on tongue weight, so I couldn't just put the Jeep right at the front of the trailer... I'd be popping wheelies with the truck.

18ft would be better if your looking to buy a trailer.

I use 6 straps in all. 4 on each corner and 1 on each axle. They are straps we use to tie bombs on trailers at work, rated to 5000lbs each, so more than adaquate IMO. The rears are hooked to the hitch, and the front hooked to the radiator support (Kevin's radiator skids or whatever they are called).

If I would just tie the axles down, the suspension is too wobbly and it causes the trailer to sway and I can feel it in the truck.... to I crunch the suspension down a bit. The straps on the axles are there for good measure.

Also I leave the Jeep in 4WD on the trailer with the parking brake on, tranny in park.

As for chains or straps. Used properly, chains are better... BUT they are harder to tighten and they seem to always loosen up.

Either way, I check the straps, hubs, tires, etc whenever I stop to take a shit, etc.

fr3db3ar
12-01-2005, 09:14 PM
They are straps we use to tie bombs on trailers at work, rated to 5000lbs each, so more than adaquate IMO.

Nate, I take it you're in the military? If AF is your career field 461X0? At least that's what it was when I was in. Of course that was some time ago :) I used to do storage and delivery.:smt006

nate
12-01-2005, 11:53 PM
you have a PM

JeepinHank
12-02-2005, 11:38 AM
Last trip with my jeep being towed, I tied it down by the axles and the body. I got the body cinched down as hard as I could on the suspension, but ~100 miles later, I saw 2 straps flying in the rearview. It seems that no matter how hard I try to compress the suspension, there's always room for it to bounce loose. BTW - I use the 10k lbs straps with the 3-4" wide hooks from my local farm implement store. They're espensive as heck, but I figure even if I got into a minor wreck, they'll keep my jeep in place.

JHKolb
12-02-2005, 12:03 PM
What JeepinHank said seems to happen to a lot of people, they think thay should strap to the chassis to keep it (rig) from bouncing thench causing the trailer to sway.

Best case I have found is to chain the rear (I use a single heavy safety chain looped up and around the rear diff) then drive the rig (gently) to put strain on the chain, then strap the front down with a strap at each corner to the axles. I then had mounting points welded to put limiting chains on the suspension to keep the rig from bouncing. This way nothing is in motion to loosen the straps and the rig is secured from bouncing by the limiting chains.

My brother (who moves a lot of heavy equipment around) swears by cross strapping - strap from rear trailer corner to front of rig, from front trailer corner to rear of rig, that way the straps are actually against each other keeping then tight.

TRXSZJ33
12-02-2005, 12:24 PM
I know that i am suppose to cross strap each on each of the axles. i was just seeing what kinda method you guys used to keep your jeep from bouncing and swaying so much. any good suggestion on that. i like the limiting strap idea.:cheer:

nmzj
12-02-2005, 01:08 PM
I just let the thing bounce. With my 4K camper and the jeep in the back, I don't notice any sway...

JeepinHank
12-02-2005, 01:30 PM
It would be some work to do it, but how about makeing a spacer to essentially extend your bumpstops before you compress the suspension. That way, you don't have so much resistance to overcome in order to compress it, reduce the extra fatigue on your springs, and you can eliminate a good bit of the bouncing. In the front, you could just stick a bunch of hockey pucks in the coil springs, line them up, and they should be held in place when you compress it. Not sure how you'd do the rear.

TRXSZJ33
12-02-2005, 01:40 PM
i was thinking of just taking straps form each of my rock sliders and cross strapping them to each side of the trailer underneath the jeep to keep the body from swaying hopefully and eliminatino bounce.

JeepinHank
12-02-2005, 03:32 PM
i was thinking of just taking straps form each of my rock sliders and cross strapping them to each side of the trailer underneath the jeep to keep the body from swaying hopefully and eliminatino bounce.

If you've got Kevin's Sliders - don't do that. I did that, and ended up bending my sliders down about 20* from where they should be.

I just bent them back with my hi-lift, but do that a couple of times, and you'll brake the arms that tie into the frame rail.

Troy
12-02-2005, 04:49 PM
I use 2 axle wrap straps in the front non-crossed. I use 2 axle wrap straps in the rear crossed. I never tie down to the body - you'll only destroy the straps and/or your body. I use chain "leaders" to attach the straps to the rub rail but some others have fashioned inserts to attach to from box tubing.

One thing to consider if you're a rookie at tying down a load is to make sure that you have enough wraps on your strap (at the ratchet) before it starts to pull force on it. That way the strap binds around itself and won't work it's way loose - this is a common problem I see with people first starting to tie down their rigs.

I have been told that crossing the straps is really not necessary unless you're trying to keep the load from shifting from side to side, which I doubt our Jeeps do much of while on a trailer.

The ATVs on the other hand are a different story since the suspension on them can be compressed enough with ratchet straps so that they don't bounce. I changed the way the rear ATV was strapped down before I trailered this load so I don't want shit about it. :mrgreen:

http://smallnet.homeip.net/gallery/albums/Preparation/DSCF0035.sized.jpg

nate
12-02-2005, 09:53 PM
I've done it the way I showed in that pic for a few trips and it works great. Hit bumps and the Jeep isn't trying to tip off the trailer.

When I say compress the suspension, I mean like 1" at most, not down to the bumpstops!

Troy
12-03-2005, 12:07 AM
I've done it the way I showed in that pic for a few trips and it works great. Hit bumps and the Jeep isn't trying to tip off the trailer.

When I say compress the suspension, I mean like 1" at most, not down to the bumpstops!

That's cool, wasn't trying to put anyone down... just voicing what I know and feel about securing a load. In your case you have to cross your rear straps since you don't have much room but I wouldn't count on them helping to keep your ZJ immobile during a panic stop because of the (zero) front/rear angle that they're at. A lot of what's best has to do with your particular trailer and how it rides with whatever you're hauling.

Nice tow rig and what looks like a TDR sticker on the rear window.

nate
12-04-2005, 04:23 PM
Ok, I see what your saying now... and yes I agree with you.

That trailer is one I borrowed since I don't own a trailer. It was a 16 foot, and it was really too short IMO. I could have pulled the Jeep forward a bit more, but I was getting to much weight on the trailer tongue. That setup wasn't the safest in the world. No trailer brakes, tires half bald on both the truck and trailer :eek:

I pulled the Jeep from Seattle a few weeks ago and I borrowed an 18foot trailer, which worked MUCH better. I wanted to take some pics, but I forgot to bring my camera.

Yes that's a TDR sticker :)

chadjans
02-12-2006, 01:15 AM
The only way you can prevent the jeep from fighting the straps when attaching to the body is to remove ALL travel from said suspension. Otherwise you are doing no good. The suspension will always bounce downward then upward against the straps or whatever implament you are using. I let the supension travel and only tie to the axles. The jeep traveling on the trailer is no different then itself putting down the road under its own power. Cross the rears around the diff. Strap the front. And manage your tounge weight for it is curicial.

Chad

OverkillZJ
02-12-2006, 01:36 AM
What kind of logic is that?

Given that some find compressing the suspension beneficial and some don't, saying that "all or nothing" with compressing it is just... well... not right!

Let's say you compress the suspension 1". It'll disallow up travel, but of course when you hit a bump it'll hit a threshold and compress further than the 1" it's being held at.

That said: if you compress it let's say 6" - it's not going to compress any further unless the downward force the trailer hits (say a dip) is greater than the energy it would've taken for the jeeps suspension to compress to 6" in the first place. It's already compressed to that point. You've effectively canceled out that 6" compression force since it's already compressed.

I'm not saying which is right or wrong (compressing suspension or not) but you can't say that "all or nothing" makes any sense.

doyll
02-12-2006, 03:13 AM
What kind of logic is that?
I'm not saying which is right or wrong (compressing suspension or not) but you can't say that "all or nothing" makes any sense.
The "all or nothing" makes sense because if you limit up movement, when suspension compresses and rebounds, the released energy makes a complete and sudden stop when it hits the strap or chain that is only partially compressing the suspension. This 'impact' is like hitting something with a hammer... Eventually something gives.

I'm not taking sides here. Only trying to explain the "all or nothing" rational. Strapping down a dedicated wheeler is a whole different world then strapping done a street vehicle. Street vehicle's suspension is setup with limited travel and rebound. Dedicated wheeler has lots more movement to deal with.

OverkillZJ
02-12-2006, 10:33 AM
The "all or nothing" makes sense because if you limit up movement, when suspension compresses and rebounds, the released energy makes a complete and sudden stop when it hits the strap or chain that is only partially compressing the suspension. This 'impact' is like hitting something with a hammer... Eventually something gives.

I'm not taking sides here. Only trying to explain the "all or nothing" rational. Strapping down a dedicated wheeler is a whole different world then strapping done a street vehicle. Street vehicle's suspension is setup with limited travel and rebound. Dedicated wheeler has lots more movement to deal with.

Again, maybe if you compress it a little bit. The more you compress it, the more force it takes for it to compress further than the straps or chains already have it compressed.

Simple physics, how can we even be discussing this?

What you're suggesting isn't "all or nothing" - it's "enough to not cause the strap stopping rebound." That is NOT compressing the suspension "completely" especially considering on trailered rigs that can be from 12-16" travel, so you can be compressing the suspension down to what, 10"? That's nuts.

Now rant off: I think compressing it a few inches and causing the BAM rebound is just asking for trouble... Some rigs that are top heavy and "swayey" though need strapped on trailers or the trailer is greatly effected, but I'd argue a well designed rig is OK just strapped at the axles.

nate
02-12-2006, 12:55 PM
Have you guys pulled your rigs on a trailer, or is this just "in theory"?

My Jeep doesn't have swaybars and it's fairly tall, so if I just tied to the axles, the Jeep tries to tip off the trailer, and this causes the trailer... and truck to sway, which is dangerous.

I haven't actually measured how far I compress it, but enough that it doesn't move around with normal driving. It's not dipping down than coming up and hitting on the ratchet straps.
I guess if I hit a huge ass hole it "could" do that, but I'm not off roading my truck/trailer and Jeep :D And I've been on "roads" in Fairbanks that should have just been dirt because they would have been smoother. "Highways" that I has to use 4wd... in the summer. haha

To compress the suspesion all the way down :eek: You would need some really strong straps and tie points on the trailer. When I'm pulling a 4 wheeler (ATV) on a trailer I compress it all the way down. But that doesn't take much.

chadjans
02-12-2006, 11:29 PM
Unless you limit all travel it will still move. Simple. You compress the suspension some it will travel downward and then back upward against your straps. And yes I have pulled many vehicles including my jeep which is a different animal than a car. Because a car has a significantly less amount of travel than my jeep. I'd argue if you limit the suspension completely it may tow worse than if it has some travel. You can never make it a static system without limiting all travel.

Chad

nate
02-13-2006, 12:03 AM
Where did I say it's not going to move? All I do is compress the suspension a bit so the Jeep isn't rocking around like a slinky. I don't understand why that is such a problem?

OverkillZJ
02-13-2006, 12:28 AM
I see no problem.

CurtP
02-15-2006, 02:18 PM
BMW uses wooden struts to prevent body movement when they ship their cars. What about doing something similar - find a good place to put struts between the axles and the body, then use the straps to pull down the body down hard against the struts, or use a high-lift to raise the body enough to put the struts in, then strap from the trailer to the body of the vehicle.

grnd93
02-15-2006, 02:39 PM
I guess I'll chime in.....

I have some experience with securing vehicles for shipment.......on airplanes.

We primarily use frame attaching points, only using the axles if we cannot get the proper restraint from the frame. For vehicles that have a long-travel (bouncy) suspension we used what is called "sleeper shoring". Basically blocks of wood under the frame to keep the suspension from compressing. Crossing the tie-down device under the vehice works great to apply the required restraint in a limited space.

Granted, an airplane doesn't hit bumps in the road like a trailer would, but some of the turbulence they encounter can be pretty severe. After we hit any turbulence we are required to go check the security of all the tie-downs. We are also required to secure the load to withstand the force of a wheels-up landing (9g's).

If I were trailering a vehicle I would use 5000 lb straps, attached to the frame as much as possible. I would likely cross everything underneath and be sure I have restraint in every direction (left, right, forward, aft, and up). Definitely check the straps at every stop, they will loosen with the bumps.

nate
02-15-2006, 03:57 PM
When you say cross the straps, are you talking the back right would go to the front left on the trailer, like that? or front left would go to front right?

grnd93
02-15-2006, 07:50 PM
More or less..yes.

There's a diagram on the worksheet we use to compute restarint on the airplane that might explain it better.......I'll see what I can dig out of my T.O.s

grnd93
02-15-2006, 09:08 PM
Ok, here's a crude diagram to illustrate. The yellow lines represent the straps. There's math that can be done to determine the applied restraint. The restraint required would be dependant on how many G's your tow setup is capable of on acceleration, braking as well as laterally (cornering). If anyone's interested I can post up the formulas to compute the applied restraint. It's pretty easy math...has to be if I can do it.

Alaska ZJ
02-24-2006, 10:54 AM
I chain on each axle. Threaded in a inverted V with the Apex of the V being the axle.

I use heavy chain and binders. I have A LOT of miles on my junk this way.

Hell it even hauled NMZJ's jeep back to Moab after he had a bonified Brainfart.....ain't that right Jason?

chadjans
02-28-2006, 01:58 AM
Good thread: http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=65447

Chad