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luvthejeep
11-14-2005, 11:25 PM
track bars are the devil, when i look at how my suspension moves up front it makes me sick. i hate that fucking track bar- it just binds everything, i got kevins kit on there and i really want to do a tri link just like the rear, its so smooth and flexes like a son of a bitch. so for all of you familiar with kevins kit you could chime in- im thinking about putting 2 half inch plates in, perpendicular to the axle, and in between the truss and the axle tube that would allow me to mount a johnny joint or something simmialr parrelel to the axle, the truss is a good 7-8 inches away from the axle tube so i could drill a few holes in it to tune the suspension with by being able to raise/lower the point of the joint, ill try to get under and snap some pics up and do some sick ms paint work if you dont get the idea,

luvthejeep
11-14-2005, 11:30 PM
just liek the side supports, it would run from that upper 2x2 to the tube, the same orentation as the side supports do
http://kevinsjeepparts.com/images/zjimages/zj_long_arms/P6100011.jpg

luvthejeep
11-14-2005, 11:31 PM
just trrying to figure out how to not inerfere with the pan and the exhaust

TrojanMan
11-14-2005, 11:33 PM
Sorry I don't have much advice... all I have to say is good luck, it's hard.

Kraqa
11-15-2005, 12:48 AM
hmm,

if your going that far with the modification of kevins lift kit why not cut that jungle gym of a axle truss off there and build something alittle more low profile. you could have it wrap the pumpin very tight and more towards the drive shaft side. that truss is just so big.

OverkillZJ
11-15-2005, 01:14 AM
I've been trying to figure a good way to do it for a few weeks now. Even cutting everything off and starting over, there's just not enough room under that oil pan...

BigDaveZJ
11-15-2005, 10:45 AM
Corey tried it on the Chalupa and couldnt get it working. He had pretty decent triangulation on both uppers and lowers (about as much as you can pull off under there) and it still sucked so he put a trackbar back in.

BMRisko
11-15-2005, 11:10 AM
Just run leafs.

BigDaveZJ
11-15-2005, 11:12 AM
Just run leafs.

Nate, would you please log out of Risko's account and use your own? :rolleyes:

Kraqa
11-15-2005, 12:18 PM
40 degrees minimum seperation.

i bet you could do it with double triangulating both. uppers and lowers. or building a Y link.

ATL ZJ
11-15-2005, 12:48 PM
40 degrees minimum seperation.

i bet you could do it with double triangulating both. uppers and lowers. or building a Y link.

Can you get away with that on the street though? I've heard that you are pretty much forced into running full hydro with a double triangulated 4link front. Correct me if this is wrong.

BigDaveZJ
11-15-2005, 01:22 PM
Can you get away with that on the street though? I've heard that you are pretty much forced into running full hydro with a double triangulated 4link front. Correct me if this is wrong.

That's been my experience as well.

Kraqa
11-15-2005, 02:17 PM
it is no difrent then leaf springs. you will have to run your drag link parallel with the axle or you will get bump stear. With the deletion of the track bar undercompression the axle does nto move with the drag link. it will move straight up and down, same as with leaf springs.

FinlayZJ
11-15-2005, 02:39 PM
Here's my idea. I never got to try it because I'm a pussy and sold my ZJ, plus I can't really fabricate.

Double triangulated front. The uppers converge and the axle. The lowers coverge and meet at the tranny crossmember. The crossmember would obviously have to redesigned to withstand the added load of lower control arms. Then get a drop pitman arm (how much depends on lift, may not be needed at all) and high steer knuckles (assuming you've swapped in a Dana 44). This will allow the tie rod and drag link to be near parallel at static ride height minimizing bump steer.

Alot of the geometry would have to be worked out and optimized for a certain size lift. I spent a while looking under my old 4.0L and it seemed possible, but again, I never got to test it.

ATL ZJ
11-15-2005, 03:52 PM
Here's my idea. I never got to try it because I'm a pussy and sold my ZJ, plus I can't really fabricate.

Double triangulated front. The uppers converge and the axle. The lowers coverge and meet at the tranny crossmember. The crossmember would obviously have to redesigned to withstand the added load of lower control arms. Then get a drop pitman arm (how much depends on lift, may not be needed at all) and high steer knuckles (assuming you've swapped in a Dana 44). This will allow the tie rod and drag link to be near parallel at static ride height minimizing bump steer.

Alot of the geometry would have to be worked out and optimized for a certain size lift. I spent a while looking under my old 4.0L and it seemed possible, but again, I never got to test it.

You sure you don't want to try it under the Rustang? :flipoff2:

FinlayZJ
11-15-2005, 04:02 PM
You sure you don't want to try it under the Rustang? :flipoff2:

Rustang = 8.8, Limited Slip, 31 spline shafts, disk brakes from the factory.

You heep = POS Dana 35 and drums. You then upgraded to a factory Rustang rear end.

:finga:

Kraqa
11-15-2005, 04:25 PM
thats pritty much how you woudl have to do it. the stearing is no difrent then setting up leaf springs.

ATL ZJ
11-15-2005, 05:24 PM
Rustang = 8.8, Limited Slip, 31 spline shafts, disk brakes from the factory.

You heep = POS Dana 35 and drums. You then upgraded to a factory Rustang rear end.

:finga:
You're right. My heep had a d35 a long time ago. It also once had a factory Ford rearend. But I prefer my 8.8 trussed that connects both tubes and ties into the pumpkin too, with 31 spline alloy shafts, 4.88 gears, and an ARB. So as you can tell, stock sucks. "Factory", "Jeep", and "trail" shouldn't ever be in the same sentence. :flipoff2::flipoff2::flipoff2::flipoff2::flipoff2: :flipoff2: <-- One for each of the lugs in my 8.8's bolt pattern. :smt003

The funny thing is, the 8.8 isn't even an axle worth being proud of. It's c-clipped and the lowest gears you can go with are 4.88s. But some tard on JU will eventually buy mine for $1500..

luvthejeep
11-16-2005, 12:20 AM
could you please explain 40 degrees of seperation to me? i dont understand that term, how would i measure that and factor that into my fabing???

luvthejeep
11-16-2005, 12:26 AM
im looking at it like the rear, the rear runs great, 2 lower links and 1 a-arm, im just going to have to figure out a spot and shape of an upper a arm in order to get this to work, ill need to crawl under it on tuesday

i wouldent quite call it a jungle gym, i think for this project its perfect because ill be able to do all sorts of diffrent mounting options, ass opposed to a close truss like i built for the rear this will work out well.... maybe...

badzj999
11-16-2005, 01:29 AM
my question is y the hell do u have that mounted to the stock control arm bracket? i hope u understand u are putting all the weight on 2 stock brackets. o and please go get some none cv shafts for like $-0.02. thannnnnnnnnks

LouisianaZJ
11-16-2005, 01:43 AM
Rustang = 8.8, Limited Slip, 31 spline shafts, disk brakes from the factory.

You heep = POS Dana 35 and drums. You then upgraded to a factory Rustang rear end.

:finga:
stock rustang 8.8s are NOT 31 spline, they are like 28 :smt106

\\

i would just fix the track bar situation so it works like its supposed to. in an arc almost straight up and down. to do that you will need a HD dropped track bar mount and an over the axle track bar mount

combine that with a DPA and an over the knuckle setup for steering and you will be golden

BMRisko
11-16-2005, 01:45 AM
my question is y the hell do u have that mounted to the stock control arm bracket? i hope u understand u are putting all the weight on 2 stock brackets. o and please go get some none cv shafts for like $-0.02. thannnnnnnnnks

That is how Kevin's front truss is designed. It is also welded to the axle in 2 places if I recall.

You don't think that 2 stock arms were putting "all that weight" on the stock brackets as well? Not sure what weight you are referring to, since there isn't much associated with keeping the pinion angle aligned, which is basically all the uppers do (in a nutshell).

luvthejeep
11-16-2005, 07:51 AM
my question is y the hell do u have that mounted to the stock control arm bracket? i hope u understand u are putting all the weight on 2 stock brackets. o and please go get some none cv shafts for like $-0.02. thannnnnnnnnks


listen newb- a- thas not my jeep, b- i hope you understand there is no weight on the brackets- so fugger off :overkill:

luvthejeep
11-16-2005, 07:56 AM
i have not seen any drop track bars that im fond of what so ever. i could not inmagine putting any more load on the factory track bar mounting point with an extended on either.

and ive not seen any drop pitman that drops much lower than the zj one already

FinlayZJ
11-16-2005, 08:39 AM
stock rustang 8.8s are NOT 31 spline, they are like 28 :smt106

Starting in 2005 they got 31 splines. It also got thicker tubes as well. :smt039

Kraqa
11-16-2005, 12:22 PM
That stock bracket is not THAT bad. I just welded some plate to it to mount a heim joint horizontally instead of vertically and that thing held up great. Never moved never squeaked. It even held up fine in a 60-70 MPH t-bone car accident. The guy slammed into my front right tire. Then the shop that fixed my truck told me that he was going to put on the RE HD bracket for free I thought “cool” he put it on I’ve had nothing but problems with it.

StinkoMan20X6_
11-16-2005, 10:57 PM
Rusty's makes a drop pitman arm that's longer than stock. I have one and it's pretty nice. I've also seen them other places.

Tommy
11-20-2005, 12:08 AM
Basically what I am doing front and rear. Here is a pic of my front. I have a shit load of bump steer with the temporary steering, but I am going full hydro. I have been real happy so far, but hasn't been trail tested yet.

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y124/Tommy_M/exhaustpics005.jpg

Tommy
11-20-2005, 12:13 AM
With the exception of the bumpsteer, feels really stable at 75 mph. Not to safe, but I had to see how it was. Do this with the exhaust if you have concerns..

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y124/Tommy_M/exhaustpics006.jpg

Cue-Ball
11-20-2005, 12:44 AM
Tommy let us know how it does on the trail looks interesting.

OverkillZJ
11-20-2005, 12:51 AM
I'm extremely interested to know how that does on the trail...

Tommy
11-20-2005, 12:52 AM
Will do... Soon hopefully, we have been slackin, Got my ZJ back up to my house and next weekend going to get it back up to the shop for the hydro steering, belly skid and roll cage. I have been saying this for the past few months. Can't wait for this build to be over so I can use the damn thing..

chadjans
11-20-2005, 11:11 PM
All this to delete a panhard bar. Why? A correctly built five link will work just as well as a four link with a deleted panhard bar. And you don't need fricken 24 inches of lift to clear the oil pan. I'd look into modifiying the oil pan if your dead set on getting rid of a purely functional piece.

Chad

Tommy
11-21-2005, 05:47 PM
I don't see why you need 24" of lift . Yeah my ZJ is high, but I could lower it and still clear the oil pan and exhaust with no issues. I have had this thing sitting on the bump stops before with no issues.

Tommy
11-21-2005, 05:55 PM
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y124/Tommy_M/Picture088.jpg



http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y124/Tommy_M/Picture081.jpg

chadjans
11-21-2005, 11:48 PM
I don't think your lowers are triangulated enough. Hence the massive bumpsteer.

Chad

OverkillZJ
11-22-2005, 12:13 PM
Even if the lowers were triangulated more, I can't see it helping. The axles going perfectly straight up now, so it's got to be just yanking the drag link and steering with it. With the track bar, it was forced to follow the same arc. I bet full hydro fixes it!

Tommy
11-22-2005, 02:20 PM
Exactly, I think the full hydro is going to fix it aswell. I am no suspenion guru but my current steering setup is the cause of the bump steer. I have since moved my lower tie rod above the knuckles, I know it is single sheer but it has made it better. Plus it is temporary. Chad I wasn't trying to knock you, your opinion is appreciated. I think you can make a functional 4 link front without massive amounts of lift.

zjeepin
11-22-2005, 04:13 PM
tommy, im wondering how much clearance you'll have for your front driveshaft?

Tommy
11-22-2005, 06:34 PM
Enough, but it is a tad tight. When i get the new made and in I will take some pics. The CA's were built around the fron shaft.