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View Full Version : Problems w/PSC pump in cold weather



egon
10-28-2005, 09:07 AM
Has anyone had problems with PSC pumps in cold weather or sitting for long periods of time? Every morning for the past week, its been in the 40s, the pump whines like it low on fluid for about 1-2 minutes. The pump is 3 months old and does have plenty of fluid. Its a 1200 series pump.

I'm trying to figure out if a I have a bum pump, or if the planets are just misaligned.

--Matt

TJeeper
10-28-2005, 04:36 PM
I'm having the same problem with my PSC pump. Anytime it is below 55F, it whines bad until it warms up. I've asked them about it, they said it shouldn't do it. I do have some issues with air seeping into the lines (not sure where- I've tightened every fitting several times) and I am going to relocate the reservoir, but so far I haven't been able track down the fix.

OverkillZJ
10-28-2005, 04:37 PM
News to me, but I haven't played with one yet.

Jeepinparrothead
10-28-2005, 04:52 PM
My pump will atually not work at all when I first crank the motor. The steering wheel will not turn. So, I sit for a second and then it will eventually work. It has done it for the past 3 years. No other problems other than that. I really don't know why it does it. I would say that there may be some air in it that has to escape before it will work. But that is only a stupid, un-educated guess. But you are not alone.

Kraqa
10-28-2005, 10:40 PM
maybe your fluid level is set to low.

norcaljr
11-04-2005, 09:45 PM
No problems with my Howe pump as of yet.

OverkillZJ
11-05-2005, 12:47 AM
Keep this updated if you find anything out... I'm going to be needing some kind of high flow pump for da buggy.

egon
11-08-2005, 12:17 AM
I have a wacky idea I'm gonna try, for the winter I'll run ATF. I'll let ya know what happens.

Otherwise, good pump.

But, don't let them fool you into thinking they are all new pumps. The pumps are reman'ed Delco units that they retool the guts for the extra umph.

--Matt

norcaljr
11-08-2005, 01:35 AM
Keep this updated if you find anything out... I'm going to be needing some kind of high flow pump for da buggy.


If your looking for a good proven high flow pump, I'd suggest talking to the guys at Howe.

PSC Motorsports
11-16-2005, 05:56 PM
The problem with the pump in the morning is the fluid is too thick for the pump. We recommend using GM winter fluid Part number 12345867 from your local GM dealer and runs $15.67 a quart.

Hope that helps.

Karl Westendorf
General Manager
PSC Motorsports
817.270.0102
www.pscmotorsports.com (http://www.pscmotorsports.com)

egon
11-17-2005, 12:26 AM
Karl, thanks for responding to my post, just wish I would have found this out sooner. I was going to call you guys anyway to ask about it. I was going to put some ATF though the pump to clean it out and then run synthetic ATF. How well would that work in the winter, or is ATF to thin?

--Matt

TJeeper
11-17-2005, 01:35 PM
I was going to work on it this weekend. How does the GM winter fluid work in the summer? Will I have to change it twice a year? My concern is in the summer temps can get up to 100 here, and I have problems with heat build up in the engine compartment.

Patrick

TJeeper
11-17-2005, 02:05 PM
I did some searching on cold weather viscosities of various fluids- not that I understand what Brookfield Viscosity means:

Mobile 1 ATF (easiest to find): -40C=5190
Redline Power Steering fluid (seems have cold and hot protection): -40C=18000
Amsoil ATF: -40C=9621

I couldn't find any specs on the GM fluid to compare, but since I am not sure if it is better to have a larger or smaller number I guess it doesn't matter. Can you recommend any of these fluids?

Thanks-

Patrick

egon
11-17-2005, 03:57 PM
I picked up some GM cold climate PS fluid today, and will be putting it in after work. I'll have an update tomorrow as cold weather is expected over night.

--Matt

TJeeper
11-17-2005, 04:53 PM
I don't suppose the GM bottle has any specs on it, or warnings about using at high temps?

I found this at a site for Amsoil products:

The Brookfield Viscosity Test gauges a transmission fluid's viscosity in cold temperature conditions. Current industry specifications dictate that Brookfield Viscosity not exceed 20,000 cP. While the average conventional transmission fluid has a Brookfield Viscosity of 15,000 cP, AMSOIL Synthetic Transmission Fluid far exceeds the minimum standard with a Brookfield Viscosity of 7,454 cP, ensuring maximum transmission efficiency and power even in the coldest winter temperatures.

http://www.performanceoiltechnology.com/atf_gm_dexron_spec.htm

I take that to say the lower the number, the higher the flow at low temps. That makes the Mobile 1 ATF look good at this point (that would be good as it would be one less bottle of fluid to carry on the trail).

Keep us updated, I am anxious to find out your results. It has been getting to 15F at night at my house, I need to get this taken care of ASAP (the pump is not happy).

TJeeper
11-17-2005, 06:22 PM
I spoke with Karl at PSC, he said stay away from ATF. It is not made to work in a high pressure environment, and the additives will wear out the seals on the pump faster.

He recommends any synthetic PS fluid, such as Royal Purple, or use the GM winter fluid. He said the winter fluid should be ok in the summer, so I wouldn't have to change it twice a year.

TJeeper
11-17-2005, 06:48 PM
Not to beat a dead horse, but I was looking around and found some more information.

Royal Purple does not publish any specs on low temp flow.
Redline is too thick (per Karl) at 18,000, it was designed for circle track racing.
Conventional ps fluids (Castrol, Penzoil) ranged from 33,000 to 60,000 at -40C.
Valvoline does not publish its flow rate for its SynthBlend fluid (which is what I use).

I couldn't find any other synthetic ps fluids that published their low temp flow rates.

I am going to pick up some of the GM fluid tomorrow and hopefully try it out this weekend.

egon
11-18-2005, 11:09 AM
Well, I put the GM fluid in yesterday. After sitting for 3 hours in 40*F weather and is squealed when I started it up. This morning, 35*F, things were quiet, but I had no steering until I tapped the gas. Just as before, the pump squealed like mad for about 1 minute.

Now I'm thinking the pump has been damaged :(

--Matt

TJeeper
11-18-2005, 04:07 PM
I was asking the counter guy about it, he said it was just a synthetic blend so it flows better in cold, but heat isn't a problem (in the summer).

Makes me wonder what the difference between it and the Valvoline synthetic blend I am using now (besides $12/qt.).

Did you get all the air out? I have a real problem getting it all out of mine, which is why I had hoped to rearrange my system this weekend to make it easier. I am still waiting on one fitting though, it was supposed to be shipped last Thursday, I'm not holding my breathe it is going to show up today.

TJeeper
11-21-2005, 04:55 PM
egon-

Have you made any progress?

My fitting didn't arrive so I decided to pull the cooler out of my system and reuse the Valvoline synthetic blend. I spent all afternoon bleeding the system, getting probably >99% of the air out, all that was left was the really small bubbles that wouldn't float to the top of the resevoir. I started it and ran it until it got hot 3 times, and let it cool down in between. The fluid barely moved up or down when turning the wheels lock to lock.

This morning it was 44F in my gargage (not even that cold- wait until it gets to -20F!) and the pump was cavitating again. Aerated the fluid enough to blow ps fluid all over the side of my Jeep. This is starting to get real old.

I talked to the vendor, my fitting will get here tomorrow.This weekend I will take the whole thing apart and relocate the reservoir and cooler to better positions, and put in the GM cold weather fluid. I am trying to be optimistic about this, but I am getting this feeling there is something fundamentally wrong with the pump. We'll see.

egon
11-21-2005, 07:35 PM
TJeeper,

I'm going to tear the pump down in the next week or 2 as I suspect internal damage. Once the pump has warmed up it works fine, but squeals like mad at startup. I'll update y'all after the pump has been disassembled.

--Matt

TJeeper
11-30-2005, 05:43 PM
I swapped out my fluid for the GM cold climate fluid this weekend. Temp in my gargage is 40-45F. No change, still cavitating. I called around, got some more information, hopefully found some answers. I'll post if I figure this out.

TJeeper
01-09-2006, 02:24 PM
I figured out the problem. The system was getting air in it everytime it cooled down. Start it up the next morning, got growling noises until it bled all the air out. Unfortunately, it took me a long time to figure out how the air was getting in. Lesson learned, check the reservoir when starting up and see if there are any bubbles present. Seems obvious, but I always checked it when hot, after driving.

gonecheenin
01-09-2006, 02:39 PM
Maybe I'm missing the obvious
but how was the air getting in & how did you fix it?

TJeeper
01-09-2006, 03:51 PM
No, I didn't say. Defective hydroboost. Needed new unit.

nate
01-09-2006, 10:27 PM
Yup. My truck is doing the same thing I believe.

egon
01-17-2006, 04:16 PM
Well, I might as well offer an update as its been awhile. I switched over to the GM cold weather fluid and the noise at start-up when below 40 has gone away. I changed the fluid almost 2 months ago, for about a month and a half the noise has not returned. I still plan on opening up the pump to inspect for damage. More on that when I get to it.

--Matt

Troy
01-17-2006, 09:17 PM
Any of you guys running the PSC p-pump conversion on an I-6 (93-96 ZJ)? I'll be installing mine in the near future and I am curious to know what serpentine belt length I'll need.