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View Full Version : LONG ARMS WHAT BRAND???



97trxuszj
08-17-2005, 04:35 PM
what brand of long arms would you guys recomend?
CLAYTON
KOR
RK
Rubicon Express
I am thinking of getting a complete system, but unsure of a brand, kevins and claytons I have heard the best about and from the looks kevins is a little less welding than claytons, I would just like personal prefferance, and the trail wortyness

ATL ZJ
08-17-2005, 04:43 PM
Out of those, Claytons.

I run KOR and I like it ok, but overall I have seen far fewer problems with Clayton's design.

RE and RK :toimonst:

OverkillZJ
08-17-2005, 05:20 PM
Claytons hands down of above list, I agree with Cam. RockControl seems to be up and coming, but there's the growing pains issue ;)

MaineZJ
08-17-2005, 07:36 PM
Claytons system will outlast your Jeep

TrojanMan
08-17-2005, 07:40 PM
your toenails will outlast rk

OverkillZJ
08-17-2005, 07:59 PM
Claytons system will outlast your Jeep

...It literaly outlasted mine. It is, no doubt, the ONLY component system on my ZJ that hasn't been broken, exception of the engine and tranny. I've busted my bull bar, steering box, steering pump, transfer case, driveshafts, etc etc all in the time that rigs been under there without a single issue. Oh, the frames bent too, but not Clayts kit :rolleyes:

Jim311
08-17-2005, 11:13 PM
I'm torn on what I want to run. I can "upgrade" to the RE longarm kit for 1200 bucks. Claytons is 1700.

chadjans
08-18-2005, 01:41 AM
Claytons hands down of above list, I agree with Cam. RockControl seems to be up and coming, but there's the growing pains issue ;)

They all have had growing pains. I don't care what name is on it.

nathaniel
08-18-2005, 02:08 AM
Claytons hands down of above list, I agree with Cam. RockControl seems to be up and coming, but there's the growing pains issue ;)

They all have had growing pains. I don't care what name is on it.

Agreed I remember when Clayton's first came out and no one was willing to install it because of the subframe and the type of welding involved.

OverkillZJ
08-18-2005, 08:26 AM
Claytons hands down of above list, I agree with Cam. RockControl seems to be up and coming, but there's the growing pains issue ;)

They all have had growing pains. I don't care what name is on it.

Of course they did. Some company's growing pains seem to be over. I wasn't taking a shot.

chadjans
08-18-2005, 08:07 PM
Wasn't saying you where. Some just don't realize what it takes to put on a la kit. Alot of people complain when things don't go right. Make an educated decision on a "kit" and install it or build your own.

nate
08-19-2005, 06:09 AM
Growing pains and completely ignoring customer service are 2 different things if you ask me.

The product is good, the support is not.

Jcbzj
08-19-2005, 05:32 PM
Uh yeah, I ordered axle brackets and a truss from Ty 3 weeks ago, as in SENT MONEY 3 weeks ago. Now Im not getting any emails back from him or his little buddy

Kraqa
08-19-2005, 06:15 PM
having no experience with any of these products.

RK's history reflects crap. i have seen no significant changes that would convince me otherwise.

KOR seemed to have addressed allot of issues with the front axle binding. but the choice of materials he uses is questionable for the price.

RC every pic i have seen the rear end binds...ALOT. Even on there own demo vehicle. you would think that if your going to put together a demo vehicle you would make it work correctly. and you still need to assemble and weld allot of the kit your self

RE the quality is there but why pay tons of money for a 5 link rear end.

Teraflex, .... i don't know where to begin. Quite frankly i have as much to say on the product as the rep that attended GSW. Crap. The kit is complete crap. This is how the conversation went with rep

Kris :
"Why would you build a long arm kit that has rod ends the size of basket balls and uses stock bushings? And why would you develop a kit that uses short uppers. isn’t' that a waist of time?"

Teraflex rep:
"This is our new long arm kit its pretty cool because it uses anty-squat technology and the new arms are way longer"

Kris:
"but why would you use stock length upper arms and drop brackets?"

Teraflex Rep:
"the longer arms help with articulation"

Kris:
"What about the fact that when your suspension unloads your pinion will point to the ground?

Teraflex Rep:
"i don't know"


I think he had an even funnier time trying to explain to all the people watching him wheel why every time he drove up a steep include the front end would unload and you could here his front pinion u-joint pop and bind.

Also not to mention that your entire front arms are held on by two bolts. to the frame.

Ok so i have allot to say about the teraflex kit. But absolutely none of it is positive.



plain and simple the only kit i know of worth the time and money is claytons. He has the simplest design that have been proven for more then 3 years with little or no problems. Ask any Claytons customer i don’t' think you will find one unhappy customer. As for the other companies mentioned above. i think the bad publicity speaks for it self.

this is my 2 cents. what do i know. i built my own. In fact I’m on my third design that i have build. and i'm changing my front configuration AGAIN when i go to the d60.

I hope that helps.

Swamp boy
08-19-2005, 10:42 PM
Has anyone seen the adds for the Nth Degree stuff...

I dont know how good it is but it looks hella cool... :smt003

Anyway.. Claytons seems to be the consensus... His stuff is super tought.. Its good to know you will probobly never throw anything at that system that it cant handle. :mrgreen:

JohnBoulderCO
08-19-2005, 11:05 PM
Very good summary from Mr. Kraqa

Clayton's! :supz:

luvthejeep
08-20-2005, 12:13 AM
still like my KOR kit-

Kraqa
08-20-2005, 05:17 AM
personally i have nothing against KOR. The design seems to adress everying thing that could go wrong with a radius arm setup. the only thing i have is that for about the same price maybe a bit bor (400 or so) you canhave a kit that is made out of way stronger material and is proven.

KOrs kit is good but the lower arms made of 1.5 x 1.5 x .188 hss worries me. since our rigs weight ALOT and that tube size is small. claytons uses 2x2x.250. super beef.


sorry abo the spelling but i'm freeking hammered.

nathaniel
08-20-2005, 10:32 AM
personally i have nothing against KOR. The design seems to adress everying thing that could go wrong with a radius arm setup. the only thing i have is that for about the same price maybe a bit bor (400 or so) you canhave a kit that is made out of way stronger material and is proven.

KOrs kit is good but the lower arms made of 1.5 x 1.5 x .188 hss worries me. since our rigs weight ALOT and that tube size is small. claytons uses 2x2x.250. super beef.


sorry abo the spelling but i'm freeking hammered.

lowers are 1.5x1.5 .250 on kor kit

MassZJ
08-20-2005, 12:15 PM
Clayton hasnt let me down yet. :supz:

nate
08-20-2005, 02:41 PM
Kraga. With the RC kit binding, where did you see binding? I think it binds some in the front due to the radius arms, but not in the the rear.

Kraqa
08-20-2005, 02:53 PM
not the greated example.

http://98jeepzj.com/photos/images/206-2.jpg

VS

http://98jeepzj.com/photos/images/192-2.jpg

VassWJ
08-22-2005, 12:33 PM
I ll go for Clayton. :drinkers:

ELLLLLIOTTTTT
08-23-2005, 02:05 AM
Kraga. With the RC kit binding, where did you see binding? I think it binds some in the front due to the radius arms, but not in the the rear.

check out Hanks pics, RC looks like a good design but something is binding in the rear.

JeepinHank
08-23-2005, 10:29 AM
My pics aren't necessarily a good indication of the performance of the SRC "kit". The ONLY things I got from Rock Control are the crossmembers, crossmember brackets, LCA mounts, and belly skid. Everything else is my own work.

There are too many other variables there to say that my ZJ is an indication of their product. My rear UCA mounts are different. My rear UCA placement is different. My Truss design is different. That's just a few of many. I'm not saying my design sucks, and his design is better - I'm just saying that I don't have his "kit". I'm still trying to get some better flex shots with the shocks disconnected, but I haven't had a chance yet.

Also - There may be binding, there may not, but it didn't hold me back on the shakedown run. I did find that my passenger side rear tire is contacting the spring, I don't know if that limited the flex or not. In the shakedown pics - I'm running front and rear shocks for a 3" lift - so yeah, the flex is a little weak.

The only obstacle I had any difficulty with at UNF was Kodak rock. I've never seen a LWB grand cherokee make that obstacle, and I got hung up on the belly skid there cause I was lacking about 3/4" of ground clearance - with 32" tires. I walked up stuff that I had to hammer down on before. I easily made it up several lines I had never been able to take.

I can't wait to see what I can do with the 35's.

I'm not defending SRC, but I'm getting tired of being an example of how the kit performs. If you want to bag on them - bag on their customer service. Hell, bag on the kit - just don't call my set-up their kit. It's not - I busted my ass on it way too much to let the praise (or criticism) go to someone else.

Have a nice day.

Kraqa
08-23-2005, 11:32 AM
there are going to be tons of varriables in each kit. As i stated in my previouse post. i have no first hand experience with any of these kits except claytons and Teraflex. SRC's kit looks very well built. I'm not basing my opinion on hanks rig of nates, look at the SRC demo vehicle. If i'm going to go off just pics on the internet do you not agree that the best ones to judge would be the companies demo vehicle? Take a look at there pics. it flex's liek a XJ. not that that is a bad thing. balanced flex is great. but some people like to tune there own suspension and it just seems that in most pics of there kit the rear end looks liek it binds. that or they seriously limit there rear axle travel.

nate
08-24-2005, 06:48 AM
What stops the rear axle is bumpstops and shocks on my setup. Few pics here crossed up in some ruts, about 2 feet deep... Not maxing out the suspension, but that's all I have for pics.
http://98jeepzj.com/photos/june122005photos.htm


On the RTI, that's a 30* and I got a 567. I'm not sure how good or bad that is.

OverkillZJ
08-24-2005, 08:24 AM
On the RTI, that's a 30* and I got a 567. I'm not sure how good or bad that is.

Are you sure you only got 567? Somone must've measured something wrong because I think that's just a hair over what a stock ZJ gets on the ramp...

Kraqa
08-24-2005, 10:53 AM
hmm matt are you sure your not thinking of a 20 degree ramp.


After soi9ng a few calculations.

a RTI of 567 with a 106 wheel base on a 30 degree ramp is roughly 30" of verticle travel.


a RTI of 567 with a 106 wheel base on a 20 degree ramp if roughly 20" of verticle travel.

you have to be thingking 20 degree.

chadjans
08-24-2005, 02:03 PM
What does a 567 on a 30* = on a 20*?

OverkillZJ
08-24-2005, 03:21 PM
Must be thinking of a 20, hmmmmm, now I need to get out the calculator and figure it out, LOL

Kraqa
08-24-2005, 03:26 PM
567 on a 30* with a 106 WB = roughy 828 on a 20* with a 106 WB

Jim311
08-24-2005, 05:15 PM
With my shortarms on a 20 degree ramp I ramp around 900....

chadjans
08-24-2005, 07:11 PM
With my shortarms on a 20 degree ramp I ramp around 900....

I don't beleive that number.

Kraqa
08-24-2005, 07:28 PM
thats only 32" vertical travel. that not un reasonable if you trim your CA mounts to clear the arms. That number is high, but definatly obtainable.

OverkillZJ
08-24-2005, 07:31 PM
With my shortarms on a 20 degree ramp I ramp around 900....

I don't beleive that number.

By brothers XJ ramps something around 860, I couldn't believe how well it did with short arms / leaves.

nate
08-25-2005, 12:26 AM
Long Armed XJ same ramp

http://98jeepzj.com/photos/images/201-2.jpg

nate
08-25-2005, 12:28 AM
Keep in mind what stops me from having more flex is the shocks. They are 12" travel which is the longest I could get in the lengths I needed without spending a crazy amount of money.

Jim311
08-25-2005, 07:12 AM
With my shortarms on a 20 degree ramp I ramp around 900....

I don't beleive that number.


Believe whatever you want, it happened.

http://www.jeepcrew.com/gallery/albums/album32/Untitled_34f.jpg

ELLLLLIOTTTTT
08-25-2005, 01:23 PM
whats so unbelievable about a 900 on a 20* ramp?

Nate, do u recall what that XJ scored? it looks kinda shitty for longarms. Myabe could use more trimming.

chadjans
08-25-2005, 07:08 PM
With my shortarms on a 20 degree ramp I ramp around 900....

I don't beleive that number.


Believe whatever you want, it happened.

http://www.jeepcrew.com/gallery/albums/album32/Untitled_34f.jpg

That don't look like a 900.

OverkillZJ
08-25-2005, 07:23 PM
na, really doesn't look like a 900... At 960 my rig looked like it should fall over.

Jim311
08-25-2005, 07:58 PM
With my shortarms on a 20 degree ramp I ramp around 900....

I don't beleive that number.


Believe whatever you want, it happened.

http://www.jeepcrew.com/gallery/albums/album32/Untitled_34f.jpg

That don't look like a 900.


Are you standing there with a measuring tape? It was somewhere between 870 and 900, don't remember the exact number. What reason do I have to sit here and talk shit about my rig? None.

Tommy
08-26-2005, 09:17 AM
Sorry for the pos pad here. Haven't posted in some. But since we are posting poser ramp pics. It looks like a 900 to me.

Papromike's rig
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y124/Tommy_M/DSCN0064.jpg
My rig before CO's. 33" boggers, RE4.5,ACOS,4.5" front XJ spring in rear.
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y124/Tommy_M/DSCN0065.jpg

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y124/Tommy_M/DSCN0067.jpg

MaineZJ
08-26-2005, 05:52 PM
here's about 24" with SUA, YJs, and 215s on an 80" wheelbase

http://www.MyOnlineImages.com/Members/Mikeyg79/images/9377.jpg

BigDaveZJ
08-26-2005, 05:56 PM
IBpeoplegooffaboutpapromike!!!

Swamp boy
08-26-2005, 09:18 PM
Ohoohohohohoh.. I wanna play..
.http://www.delta4x4club.com/trailreports/2005/mg_feb12_2005/RTI-013.jpg


This is something like a 700 ??? Cant remember

Looks pretty weak at this angle...

http://www.delta4x4club.com/trailreports/2005/mg_feb12_2005/RTI-034.jpg


And this is Louserana ZJ with his XJ.. If I remember correctly he was a little over 900...
http://www.delta4x4club.com/trailreports/2005/mg_feb12_2005/RTI-04.jpg



And just to be a pic whore... This is one of my favorite pics... This guy came up to me at a meeting and said.. "Man I got the only grand here and with my 2" lift it looks pretty good...Dont you think??"

So I parked next to him and made him feel like a turd... :finga:

http://www.delta4x4club.com/trailreports/2005/mg_feb12_2005/RTI-037.jpg

OverkillZJ
08-26-2005, 10:23 PM
IBpeoplegooffaboutpapromike!!!

I know you were waiting for me to, but since he sent me $100 of what he owes me today, after 4 years, I'm going to smile and keep my mouth shut in hopes of actually getting the other $167 :partyman:

Tommy
08-27-2005, 12:41 PM
IBpeoplegooffaboutpapromike!!!

LOL.

97trxuszj
09-21-2005, 04:10 AM
I want to build my own long arms, but I am confussed about a rear 4 link setup, should I buy claytons 4link kit or make my own? I was going to sleeve my frame with 4 x 3 x 1/4" wall. Then I am making my front lower arms the same length as claytons. I am making mine out of 1.5" x .25 wall DOM sleeved with 2" DOM, with JJ on the axle side and bushings on the unibody side. will these JJ work ok?

http://www.currieenterprises.com/cestore/Product.aspx?id=1265

then I will use my existing RE super flex upper arms with some 1/4" brackets welded to the lower arms. then make up some 1/4" brackets for the bushing side on the lowers line them up to the sleeved unibody and weld them on. Am I in the right direction, will this radius front arm setup work? This is my DD and weekend warrior, I don't do much if any rocks mostly muddy trails steep hills off camber things. Advise and critizim is welcome. I would like to make my own front at least, sence clayon wants around $800 for his front radius setup, and I can build my own and sleeve the unibody for around $300

THANKS ANDREW

JeepinHank
09-21-2005, 09:48 AM
I want to build my own long arms, but I am confussed about a rear 4 link setup, should I buy claytons 4link kit or make my own?

If you're comfortable making your own, go for it. If not, Clayton's would be the way to go. There's a good 4-link suspension calculator posted (Excel Spreadsheet) over in PBB. If you go to the Jeep Talk FAQ V2.0 (http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=376900), near the bottom of the post, you'll find a link to a post with a good discussion of the variables/definitions, and the most current version. That will help you out a lot if you decide to build your own.


I was going to sleeve my frame with 4 x 3 x 1/4" wall. Then I am making my front lower arms the same length as claytons. I am making mine out of 1.5" x .25 wall DOM sleeved with 2" DOM, with JJ on the axle side and bushings on the unibody side. will these JJ work ok?

http://www.currieenterprises.com/cestore/Product.aspx?id=1265

Sounds good, yes those JJ's will work.


then I will use my existing RE super flex upper arms with some 1/4" brackets welded to the lower arms. then make up some 1/4" brackets for the bushing side on the lowers line them up to the sleeved unibody and weld them on. Am I in the right direction, will this radius front arm setup work? This is my DD and weekend warrior, I don't do much if any rocks mostly muddy trails steep hills off camber things. Advise and critizim is welcome. I would like to make my own front at least, sence clayon wants around $800 for his front radius setup, and I can build my own and sleeve the unibody for around $300

The RE upper arms will work fine. Just allow yourself plenty of adjustment each way (to dial in your pinion angle), and place your LCA-side mounts to fit.

Honestly, the links should be the last things you build. When it comes time to build them, I'd suggest you put your axles where you want them, tack your frame-side CA mounts in place, and measure for your links. When I built my arms, I positioned my axles where I thought they needed to be, and built to that measurement. They actually ended up being a hair too short. I had allowed enough adjustability into my arms, so I was able to get away with it. However, the adjustment is close to being maxed out, and I have a feeling I'll be extending them some time down the road.

HTH

97trxuszj
09-21-2005, 01:15 PM
Thanks for all the information. But don't you think if I made my arms the same length as claytons arms are MIN and MAX that I should be ok? his are 35.5" min and 37.5" max and recomends that they are about 36.5" eye to eye. so if I made mine just like that woukd that be ok? Also I looked at that calculator and i think I might buy claytons rear 4 link less hassle for me.

geberhard
11-22-2005, 07:25 PM
K, to add to the mix, what about WJ suspension recommendations? I helped a bit on a install recently on a Gen 2 WJ setup, RK and the product is pretty beef. I know Claytons' stuff too, but what would be a decent overall setup for a WJ, 6 to 8"? Also, has anyone heard of this lil company:

http://www.ironrockoffroad.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=SFNT&Store_Code=IROR

they seem to make some decent stuff...

So what is the consensus for WJ setups? Mix and match Claytons and RK components?

Trying to keep the setup within $2000 ideally since this is a second trail rig/daily driver.

Any other decent or good setups out there? Sorry, I am more familiar with ZJ lifting than WJ setups (last ZJ I lifted was over 4 years ago ;)

Possible plan is to ditch the stock WJ crappy axles and run Volvo portals as well, so other lift recommendations in the 4" range are also appreciated (The portals will give me about 6" plus of lift stock.

Gui

geberhard
11-22-2005, 07:27 PM
Also debating building my own setup, so any good WJ setup ideas appreciated as well :)

For kicks, some boggers on the WJ ;)

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v256/geberhard/needtrimming.jpg

and bling (needs more cutting ;):

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v256/geberhard/bling.jpg



No the plan is not 40 boggers, but I would like to be able to run possibly 37's, depending on the final config. I may do the portals on the YTJ, and swap the YTJ axles in the WJ... decisions decisions...

Thanks,

Gui

TrojanMan
11-22-2005, 10:04 PM
K, to add to the mix, what about WJ suspension recommendations? I helped a bit on a install recently on a Gen 2 WJ setup, RK and the product is pretty beef. I know Claytons' stuff too, but what would be a decent overall setup for a WJ, 6 to 8"? Also, has anyone heard of this lil company:

http://www.ironrockoffroad.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=SFNT&Store_Code=IROR

they seem to make some decent stuff...

So what is the consensus for WJ setups? Mix and match Claytons and RK components?

Trying to keep the setup within $2000 ideally since this is a second trail rig/daily driver.

Any other decent or good setups out there? Sorry, I am more familiar with ZJ lifting than WJ setups (last ZJ I lifted was over 4 years ago ;)

Possible plan is to ditch the stock WJ crappy axles and run Volvo portals as well, so other lift recommendations in the 4" range are also appreciated (The portals will give me about 6" plus of lift stock.

Gui

RK is crap. The only thing i'd get from them is springs.

Cue-Ball
11-22-2005, 10:33 PM
Gui,

Call up Clayton he has a WJ kit now. Jerod just installed one, I test drove it with him and it was pretty sweet.

ELLLLLIOTTTTT
11-22-2005, 11:16 PM
has anyone tried the TnT kit? the XJ guys seem to like it pretty well and theres a guy in my local 4x4 club that has it and I've seen it perform flawlessly.

JeepinHank
11-23-2005, 11:42 AM
Never heard of Iron Rock Offroad... That doesn't mean that their stuff is bad or anything, but I don't know if I'd drop 2 grand with a company that may or may not be around this time next year. Also, I'd really like to see what all is included in their package. I can read the list of parts, but can't really get a clear picture in my head of the way everything attaches, or how it looks when its all said and done. It sounds really similar to the Teraflex kit.

Teraflex has released a 4" longarm setup for the WJ, which is based on their LCG TJ suspension. I still don't know if I like the idea of using long lowers and short/stock uppers.

The great thing about Clayton is he's proven himself with a good product, and more importantly - a stable company. If you do, by some slim chance, have a problem with his setup, you'll be able to contact the company later on. His arms are pure beef and he has a good mounting system.

RockKrawler has a bad rap around here. I've never seen a RK suspension in person, so I'm not going to comment much on it. People like their springs and shocks, but they don't like their arms, joints, or mounting systems.

Then you've got the Rusty's suspension. Most XJ guys swear by Rusty's stuff, but again, ZJ guys don't seem too impressed. I think the big reason for this is the fact that his longarm suspension is bolt on.

Never seen a TnT kit, but I do like the looks of the belly skid. The Y-link design is pretty interesting too. This is another "bolt on" system, but it seems pretty well thought out. I don't see a "WJ kit", but I wouldn't think it would be too difficult to make the XJ setup work for the front of a WJ. You'd still have to come up with something for the rear, so that will involve a lot of customization.

I don't know if Kevin makes a WJ longarm suspension or not, but he might be another one to check out. Just looked - don't think they do.

I think that just about covers the companies out there making kits. I kind of suprised myself - I didn't realize that there were so many out there. If you would feel comfortable building it yourself, go for it. If you'd rather avoid doing a lot of custom / fabwork, and save some time / headaches - go with Clayton's.

That's my buck fiddy.

Troy
11-23-2005, 12:53 PM
Clayton's kit is good. Ramps are for pussies. This is an example of when real world flex is nice:

http://smallnet.homeip.net/gallery/albums/9-21-05_Jeeping/IMG_0486.jpg

LouisianaZJ
04-11-2006, 02:14 AM
im thinkin about the TNT kit on my XJ . I could also get claytons for about the same price. I know claytons would be stronger for sure but im thinking of the TNT for clearance and the fact it is easier to install (probably still get the side plates welded inplace afterwards)

says they use 1.75" x .250 wall DOM with the threads right into the DOM, not using inserts

what do you guys think? some pics from tnt
http://www.tntcustoms.com/webV3/ylinksample1.jpg

http://www.tntcustoms.com/webV3/terry2.gif

http://www.tntcustoms.com/webV3/fatwreck3.gif

http://www.tntcustoms.com/webV3/xjcust2.gif
http://www.tntcustoms.com/webV3/fatwreck1.gif

NAFTEL
04-11-2006, 12:14 PM
Has anyone seen the adds for the Nth Degree stuff...

I dont know how good it is but it looks hella cool... :smt003

Anyway.. Claytons seems to be the consensus... His stuff is super tought.. Its good to know you will probobly never throw anything at that system that it cant handle. :mrgreen:\

9th is hella cool- i know a lady with the TJ/wranger kit on her Rubicon- and it works great, tucks up under the jeep so well- but last time i checked they weren;t making anything for ZJ's

MUDDTRACKS
04-11-2006, 09:53 PM
sorry had to put my posser pic up

RockKrawler lift and trianglated rear shocks

http://gator4x4.com/photosets/albums/jfest05/DSCF1736.sized.jpg
http://gator4x4.com/photosets/albums/jfest05/100_0844.sized.jpg

gearhead313
04-12-2006, 11:22 PM
RE



http://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i199/46willys/4-9%20trailride/DSC02398.jpg

http://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i199/46willys/4-9%20trailride/DSC02399.jpg


o ya, my rig is actually back on the trail!!! thought this would be a good place to prop my RE and some posers