PDA

View Full Version : Found My Rear Vibration, NV247 Almost Gone



JohnBoulderCO
07-14-2005, 12:19 AM
I was under the Jeep and saw oil all over the rear of the NV247. U-joint grease on the under body. Looks like something isn't happy.

I grabbed the CV end of the drive shaft and gave it a wiggle. The out put shaft moves a ton in every direction. Not good.

Put it on jack stands, take the rear drive shaft off and checked the out put shaft, it isn't bent. But, having all the play can't be good.

Check the oil, it's got metal shavings in it. Shit.

So, I must have spun a bearing that took out part of the case, for all that play, or something worse for T-case oil to be everywhere.

Question: Worth a tear down rebuild or swap in a NP231 HD with a SYE? :mrgreen:

Troy
07-14-2005, 06:53 AM
no brainer, go with the 231 HD with SYE.

JohnBoulderCO
07-14-2005, 09:38 AM
I kinda figured that. :mrgreen:

But it's good to have a second opinion and I felt like sharing my pain.

OverkillZJ
07-14-2005, 10:48 AM
Another vote for 231HD w/ SYE, I love the simplicity of mine :weedman:


Hell, throw a 2-low kit in it while you're at it, that I love too :-D

JpRngr
07-14-2005, 03:11 PM
Stak!

Mtn WJ
07-14-2005, 03:18 PM
John

You should talk to A-1 Transmission too and see what they would charge to set up a 231 or a 242? I have only purchased parts their for my 242 and they seem to know what they are doing. They figured out that the WJ 242 front shaft is 1/4 longer than other 242 and were able to set me up with a yoke and front shaft that worked with my HD drive shaft. Phone number is 303 623 1401.

Keith

JohnBoulderCO
07-14-2005, 04:02 PM
Stak!

205/203 ??? Not sure what you meant by that. :mrgreen:

Kraqa
07-14-2005, 04:08 PM
ahh d300 and i'l make you a twin stick flip kit.

BigDaveZJ
07-14-2005, 04:09 PM
Another vote for 231HD w/ SYE, I love the simplicity of mine :weedman:


Hell, throw a 2-low kit in it while you're at it, that I love too :-D

I 2nd the 2-low kit, then we can all laugh at John like we laugh at Matt when he forgets to put it in 4x4!!

JohnBoulderCO
07-14-2005, 04:20 PM
The WJ needs a longer 23 spline input shaft then the standard NP231's, so it needs to be built.

A1 Transmission wants $875 for a NP231 with SYE made from used parts.
JB Conversion wants $975 for a HD NP231 with SYE made from all new HD parts.

Anyone build these for less?

BigDaveZJ
07-14-2005, 04:49 PM
You can build one in your garage for less I'm sure. They're not too bad.

JohnBoulderCO
07-14-2005, 05:00 PM
You can build one in your garage for less I'm sure. They're not too bad.

That's what I was thinking, but I would need to get the correct input shaft, etc. Figured there might be someone local that builds these for less $$$

OverkillZJ
07-14-2005, 05:13 PM
Another vote for 231HD w/ SYE, I love the simplicity of mine :weedman:


Hell, throw a 2-low kit in it while you're at it, that I love too :-D

I 2nd the 2-low kit, then we can all laugh at John like we laugh at Matt when he forgets to put it in 4x4!!

Ya, but you can smile when you realize you made it up hard obsticles in 2-low without even realizing it :smt003

Halfdoc
07-14-2005, 10:22 PM
You can build one in your garage for less I'm sure. They're not too bad.

That's what I was thinking, but I would need to get the correct input shaft, etc. Figured there might be someone local that builds these for less $$$

Can't you just take the shaft out of the existing case and swap it in??

More trailblazing for you and more footsteps to follow for me :supz: (Is a group by > or = 2?)

David

Kraqa
07-14-2005, 10:33 PM
If your swapping t-cases you might as well do it right.

look for a d20 or d300 ......$150-200
Flip kit..............................$500
Clocking ring.....................$75





NP231..............................$500
SYE..................................$260 (http://www.rubicon4x4.com/catalog/advance-adapters-np231-fixed-yoke-noncv-jeep-p-14785.html)

Plus the tera 2low......

not that much difrence. Except with the d300 you would have a twin stick thats way stronger.

JohnBoulderCO
07-14-2005, 10:50 PM
Can't you just take the shaft out of the existing case and swap it in?? David

I think so, but there is something messed up big time with the NV247, so the shaft my be scored by burnt bearings. Might be a dead end for me to reuse, and build a junk yard NP231 using my shaft.

My drive shaft will not go in the slip yoke any further then the resting position. Something is bent, got bent, broke, twisted, etc.

I hope it only trashed the T-case and not the pinion on the D44AL or I will have another swap to start. :mrgreen:

JohnBoulderCO
07-14-2005, 10:56 PM
Kraqa. Good ideas and prices.

I took the NV247 out tonight. It's not that heavy. Turns out it's shifted by a cable so it should be easy to adapt a NP231. Just move/adapt the shift plate from one to the other. Leave the bezel inside as is, who cares, just mark it with something for the new positions.

I measured the input shaft dims...now it's time to think.

Do I just drop the coin and have one built or fuss around with it in the garage for another week or two?

Time for some :drinkers: while I ponder.

Halfdoc
07-14-2005, 11:46 PM
This guy has some great write ups.

247-->231:

http://65.42.106.152/forums/showthread.php?t=423445

speedo fix:

http://65.42.106.152/forums/showthread.php?t=456577


David.

JohnBoulderCO
07-14-2005, 11:59 PM
David,
Thanks!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I was just reading that. :drinkers: I think he could have moved the 247 shift plate to the 231 (with some mods) and it would have been cake.

Based on some prices looks to be around $500-$600 used + SYE and use my shaft (hope it isn't toast) or $800-$900 for a drop in. I'm all for saving some $$$ but if my shaft is toast, $260 for a new one from the dealer, I checked, I might as well save the time and buy one with all new parts ready to go.

John

JohnBoulderCO
07-15-2005, 12:08 AM
I was pondering some more :drinkers: :drinkers: :drinkers: I think I busted this during GSW.

Corey and I were driving on I-70 between 75-85mph and I had no vibs.
Coming back I had vibs and couldn't drive much over 60mph.
I noticed my driver's side rear axle was bent, so I thought it was that and replaced it. No change in vibes.

Went wheeling last weekend and the vibes were worse coming home.

Come to find that my slip yoke will not go in the T-case past the resting position.

I wonder if climbing shit in Moab caused a bind on the slip yoke (my drive shaft angle is 16 degrees at 6"+ of lift) which put some kind of kink or twist in the slip yoke or out put shaft. Then I climbed, slid back and since my shaft wouldn't go in the T-case, it broke something inside...bearing, clips, etc. then the play started which caused the vibes on the way home from Moab. Now the thing is just falling apart and that is why oil is everywhere underneath.

Hmmmmm, seems a slip yoke, even with a CV, might not be the smart thing when you have more lift and more drive shaft angle.

I need some more :drinkers: to ponder my situation some more. :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:

JpRngr
07-15-2005, 12:59 AM
Stak!

205/203 ??? Not sure what you meant by that. :mrgreen:

http://www.stak4x4.com/index.html :finga:

JohnBoulderCO
07-15-2005, 01:14 AM
Pretty cool! But $2800 is gonna hurt a bit much.

zjmike4
07-15-2005, 01:55 AM
drop the change and get an atlas II. :supz:

I think you should get the 231 HD, i have that and I really like it, I get no vibes now after I threw on the Kevins crossmember.

That Stak is sick too. A three speed case would be really nice and 5.44 to 1 would be awesome.

Cody
07-15-2005, 04:35 AM
OK, first of all, don't swap your old input shaft into a new case. I did that, and because my old input shaft was worn a little bit, it caused major carnage in the case. blew up shift forks, and all sorts of fun stuff.

If you really want to build a 231/242, just go to a local tranny part supply store (a reputable one) and have them order the correct input shaft for the t-case. George (fuck face) at TCU said he was the only person in the known universe that could get a 231 input shaft in the correct lenght for my application--and he wanted 250 bones. 20 minutes and 110 dollars later I had it in my hand. Point being, you'd be surprised what the guys at a good drivetrain shop know and can do.

All that being said, get an atlas. You're going to be into a 231/242 nearly 1000 if you have someone else build it (maybe 500 if you build it yourself--but it's sorta one of those things you ought to know something about before you start tossing shit together). Thats great and all, but realistically you can get an atlas ready to bolt into your WJ for 1600-1700. You'll NEVER worry about breaking it, you'll NEVER worry that you should have spent a little bit more to do it right (like Mike Lib as he destroyed output shaft after output shaft on his super sweet 242), and you'll NEVER get tired of showing off your twin stickies to all the sucka's that don't have em!

Cody

JohnBoulderCO
07-15-2005, 09:46 AM
Good point about the output shaft. Yeah, I'm sure mine is not in cherry shape.

I though Mike Lib kept breaking his 242 output shaft because it was custom machined for a SYE or somthing like that and it wasn't a 32 spline output. Been while...so I might be wrong about the details, but I do know it was machined for something.

Yeah a Stak or Atlas would be nice, but for the extra coin I'm leaning toward the NP231HD.

Gonna make some more calls today.

Thanks for all the suggestions.

Cody, is your secret really the twin sticks? Is that what gets the girls to hop in your rig? If so, maybe I should get the Atlas. :mrgreen:

JohnBoulderCO
07-15-2005, 09:48 AM
I think you should get the 231 HD, i have that and I really like it, I get no vibes now after I threw on the Kevins crossmember.

Do you have the SYE on your 231? Wondering why you had vibs.

Kraqa
07-15-2005, 10:48 AM
i still don't understand why no one has looked at the d300.

Cody
07-15-2005, 03:10 PM
Cody, is your secret really the twin sticks? Is that what gets the girls to hop in your rig? If so, maybe I should get the Atlas. :mrgreen:

You got it. Every girl aspires to have two sticks of their own don't they? We're talking about jeeps still here.

One thing to consider if you're trying to save money, is that the Atlas, 231, d300 are all different dimensions and will most likely need different lenght driveshafts than what you had before. The 242 is probably close to the same size, but everything else will be different. FWIW, Tom Woods has proved to be extremely grand cherokee friendly when building driveshafts for us.

Cody

JohnBoulderCO
07-15-2005, 06:42 PM
Yeah, both my shafts are Woody's! :mrgreen:

Well, I checked into getting the NVG241J 4:1 Rubi from JB Conversions. It wouldn't work. Measured more stuff. The out put shaft from the transmission is too short, won't reach the Rubi input. He tried this before and it was a dead end.

I considered the Atlas for a second, then came back to earth.

I just ordered a NP231HD SYE Super Short with electronic speed output included from JB Conversions. Having the shorter shaft length and all the HD goodies should make it the strongest 231 available. All new parts.

I know I could have had the Atlas for $800 more, but then I would need two new drive shafts and linkages to mess with.....I didn't want a summer project during wheeling season.

Should have it in a week. The front CV shaft will bolt on, then get a new rear shaft from Tom Wood's and I'm rolling.

Also with the speed output on the 231, I can do a 8.8 swap without moving tone rings if I want to give up ABS.

But that will wait until winter time. It's wheeling weather and I need to wheel and break more shit! :mrgreen:

Kraqa
07-15-2005, 07:38 PM
to address the drive shft issue. you can get a drive shaft from the rear of a pick up F250 f30 even som f150 with the slip in the middle of the shaft for liek 50$. then most drive shaft places will shorten it for around 40 or so and balance for 25. at least thats what it costs around here. i dont; know how much tom wood is charging but that has to be cheeper.

JohnBoulderCO
07-15-2005, 09:19 PM
That's a good idea.
Tom Wood makes a new HD CV drive shaft for $300 shipped to your door using your measurements.

Cody
07-15-2005, 11:53 PM
Make sure you tell Tom that you met him down at GSW. He'll cut you a smokin deal..

I won't say numbers, but I got front and rear gold seal 1310 drivelines (non-cv) for about half of what you would expect.

Cody

JohnBoulderCO
07-16-2005, 12:11 AM
Thanks for the tip! But I don't think I met him. What does he look like, in case he asks? :mrgreen:

ELLLLLIOTTTTT
07-17-2005, 12:21 AM
Thanks for the tip! But I don't think I met him. What does he look like, in case he asks? :mrgreen:

just tell him you brought your jeep into his shop that weekend, there were about 100 of us in and out of there that weekend.

JohnBoulderCO
07-29-2005, 11:00 AM
Tom wasn't in a discount mood this morning. But I did get a few bucks off the new drive shaft for name dropping NAGCA! :mrgreen:

I put the NP231HD SYE in last night. Very sweet, no issues. The front drive shaft will work just fine, just need a new rear shaft.

I will figure out the linkage this weekend. I plan on testing it out next weekend! :supz:

JohnBoulderCO
08-05-2005, 03:00 PM
The 247 shift plate is too long for the 231. It hits the 231 case in the 2Hi position. So, do I make a custom plate? Hmmmm, then I notice something.

There is a mount on the transmission that allows the shift linkage cable to be in a higher location (NV247 location) or a lower location, maybe for the 242?

So, I moved the cable to the lower location and ditched the 247 shift plate and used a 231 shift plate that had a pin for a cable. The 231 pin is a larger diameter then the 247 pin, go figure. So, I machined down the 231 pin to match the 247 pin diameter. Put in on and Vola! the shifting works. If the 242 is also in the higher location, then was Jeep thinking about putting a 231 in the WJ? Why the second cable location? Well, it was nice it was there, made things easy.

Just need to install the new Woody rear drive shaft and I'm ready to roll.

JohnBoulderCO
08-11-2005, 03:28 PM
Well, I trail tested it and every thing works fine. It is harder to shift than the NV247, but that's not a big deal. The bezel positions don't line up, but that's not a big deal either. The rear vibration is gone!

Note: if you do a T-case swap, take the time to replace the seal on the Transmission output shaft (which goes into the T-case). Easy to do and only $20.

I thought it would be fine, wrong, it started leaking transmission fluid on the trail. Last night I pulled the T-case, replaced the seal and put everything back together in less then 4 hours. I'm spending too much time under the Jeep! :mrgreen:

Lbrty9
12-30-2008, 09:41 PM
John,

Any update on this swap? Still working good? I need to get to a short SYE and am considering this swap. Would you do it again?

JohnBoulderCO
12-31-2008, 12:08 PM
Yep, still working fine. I like having 2WD. That should work out nice when I get a new front axle with hubs.

Do it again? Yes, if the end game is ~35's-37's.
I haven't second guessed my T-case swap or Clayton's.

If building a buggy, going to 40's, wanting twin sticks, want to do front digs or have extra cash, go for the atlas or stak.

nate
12-31-2008, 04:24 PM
Kinda like the big tall cop dude on Everyone Loves Raymond... talks like that too.


Thanks for the tip! But I don't think I met him. What does he look like, in case he asks? :mrgreen:

JohnBoulderCO
12-31-2008, 05:51 PM
Kinda like the big tall cop dude on Everyone Loves Raymond... talks like that too.

I ran Spike with Tom Woods last year. Great guy. Nice that he had an on board welder for Ryan's LCA's.

Note: This is an old thread (over 3 years old). I answered the previous post question.

Lbrty9
05-04-2009, 02:42 PM
This thread just keeps popping back up... Anyway, I have the 231 sitting in my garage and the 247 is out. I notice that there is a threaded hole on the 231 that doesn't exist on the 247 as well as an electrical connector on the shorty SYE. Am I safe in just putting in a plug and taping off the connector. Doesn't look like either is used for the WJ.

1 more stupid question... What type of fluid are you running? Customer support at JB Conversions is usually awesome, but I suspect they are out wheeling today or maybe even getting hammered by the weather today.

snaps
01-20-2016, 01:08 PM
I apologize for bumping a 7 year old thread but i figure ill start here before starting a new thread.
I have recently gone through the process of building a 231 HD with a 6 pinion planetary, 1.25 wide chain, and Rugged Ridge SYE. I used the input shaft from my 247 and the bearings are the same width as the short shaft that was in the 231 originally so everything should be lined up correctly concerning the input shaft depth. The upgraded internals were purchased as a kit from eBay and as far as I can tell are the correct internals out of either a dodge or chevy 231 variant. The gear cut is also correct and matching (231 96+, internals 96+)

Everything is assembled (not sealed yet) and I can shift through all 4 positions. 4lo works fine, Neutral allows input to spin independently from the two output yokes, 4 hi works like it should.

My problem is when I shift into 2 hi the front output yoke is still locked to the main shaft. Shifting with the back of the case off I can see that the mode sleeve (large selector that locks the main shaft spur gear with the front output spur gear) does not move far enough down the shaft to disengage the splines on the end of the spur gear assembly on the main shaft (thereby disconnecting the chain from the front output spur gear). This happens regardless of orientation of the mode sleeve.

Also i noticed that the main shaft does not fully bottom out on in the bearing cup inside the input shaft/ planetary assembly when the rear output yoke is installed. The main shaft gets pulled rearward about a half inch when the rear cone/output yoke is installed.

I've done a good but of reading and cant seem to find what I did wrong. Thanks in advance for the help.

fluxcap
01-20-2016, 01:11 PM
I would recommend taking some good pictures

snaps
01-22-2016, 10:36 AM
So i looked at it again last night and by some unbelievable stroke of luck, the junkyard 231 I paid $50 for had a Tera 2Lo shift plate installed in it by who ever owned it last. What I thought was 2 hi was actually 4 hi.

snaps
03-02-2016, 04:54 PM
Just following up for anyone having the same issue. I found that there was a substantial amount of radial play in the mode shift fork shaft causing the journal pin to bind instead of slide along the track of the shift plate, thus keeping me from shifting.

I replaced the part and reassembled everything with a shit ton of moly grease and sure nuff it shifts like butter.

Aside from a TeraLow doubler i've "manifest destinied" my 231.
6 pinion planetary, 1.25" wide chain, Tera2Low, and RR SYE.
Im confident I could do this again with my eyes closed and one hand tied behind my back after the number of times I tore this damn thing apart and reassembled it....

JohnBoulderCO
03-02-2016, 05:36 PM
I dissembled mine twice, in the the Red Stone Parking lot, to replace the range fork (the root case was found the second time, being worn/missing spacers in the 6 gear planetary set).

This was at two different GSW events, it was becoming an every-other parking lot adventure with fellow GSW'ers helping me out. Just saying....;););)