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ILikeMud
06-28-2005, 09:47 PM
What are the differences between the two t-cases?
I know the low and high ranges are the same, at least that's what I've read.
Is one better then the other?

Give me any info you can.

ELLLLLIOTTTTT
06-28-2005, 11:56 PM
231 is lighter and supposedly stronger, also there is more aftermarket products for it. The 242 isn't bad, its worked for me for the last couple years but if it ever craps out I'd spring for a SYE'd 231 with Tera 4:1 or something comparable.

LouisianaZJ
06-29-2005, 12:06 AM
the 231 is stronger
and there are more sye kits for it

teh 4lo is kinda like the super 35 kit, retarted. im not gonna drop a grand into a 231, just get an atlas

ELLLLLIOTTTTT
06-29-2005, 12:47 AM
the 231 is stronger
and there are more sye kits for it

teh 4lo is kinda like the super 35 kit, retarted. im not gonna drop a grand into a 231, just get an atlas

$1k for Tera low? Thought it was more in the $500ish range, still 2low would be pretty sweet to have without swapping in a $2500 atlas.

BTW i vote this = newb tech.

ILikeMud
06-29-2005, 12:51 AM
Sorry if this is kind n00b guys.

Alright I'll go with the 231 then.
Is a Tera 4:1 good if I'm not doing much rock crawling?

LouisianaZJ
06-29-2005, 12:58 AM
http://store.mepco4x4.biz/tech23autelo.html
i might have used the wrong term i was talking aout the 4:1 231 conversion

a stock 231 will be fine for you

teh 2lo is kinda pointless imho. all it lets you do is run teh 2.7:1 in 2wd. if you are too pansy to turn a locked up front in 2wd spend that loot on hydro assist

TrojanMan
06-29-2005, 12:59 AM
242 has both full time and part time, 231 only has part time. If you have a power monster and you need it streetable, 242 is the way to go, otherwise 231.

ILikeMud
06-29-2005, 01:01 AM
Yea, I'll keep it stock for now.

I can always build off it later, cause a jeep is never done.

mtnzj
06-29-2005, 02:41 AM
wow, im amazed at the restraint we used on this thread..
i was expecting :axe: :smt075 :smt064 :withstup: :tease:
i was getting prepared to :popcorn: :popcorn:
must be bc we're not all :drinkers: :partyman: :weedman: tonight :mrgreen:

LouisianaZJ
06-29-2005, 04:11 AM
wow, im amazed at the restraint we used on this thread..
i was expecting :axe: :smt075 :smt064 :withstup: :tease:
i was getting prepared to :popcorn: :popcorn:
must be bc we're not all :drinkers: :partyman: :weedman: tonight :mrgreen:
stfu newb. :finga:

it was an ok question i think

T/C CHART .xls (http://members.cox.net/wagillac/stuff/Transfercases.xls)

TrojanMan
06-29-2005, 04:21 AM
wow, im amazed at the restraint we used on this thread..
i was expecting :axe: :smt075 :smt064 :withstup: :tease:
i was getting prepared to :popcorn: :popcorn:
must be bc we're not all :drinkers: :partyman: :weedman: tonight :mrgreen:
stfu newb. :finga:

it was an ok question i think

T/C CHART .xls (http://members.cox.net/wagillac/stuff/Transfercases.xls)

You're hatin on my findings!

http://www.newventuregear.com/tcases.html

btw.. rules do say to leave chit chat out of the tech section, maybe people are just following rules for once? :axe:

Jim311
06-29-2005, 11:52 AM
So on that chart.. which NV249 are our grands equipped with? There are 3 seperate versions of the 249 apparently, some of which appear to be pretty strong. Also, where the fuck can I find an NV241 for a reasonable price? I'm surprised at how light the 231 is in comparison to the other cases... only 65 pounds!

ILikeMud
06-29-2005, 02:18 PM
I'm actually surprised with how welcoming this board is when compared to other 4x4 forums. I am a bit of a n00b to all this.

Thanks for all the info guys, hope to grab a 231 in a lil bit and get this build up started.

BigDaveZJ
06-29-2005, 02:20 PM
I'm actually surprised with how welcoming this board is when compared to other 4x4 forums. I am a bit of a n00b to all this.

Thanks for all the info guys, hope to grab a 231 in a lil bit and get this build up started.

Everyone's just having an off day, they'll be back to their normal selves here soon. :partyman:

TrojanMan
06-29-2005, 04:34 PM
So on that chart.. which NV249 are our grands equipped with? There are 3 seperate versions of the 249 apparently, some of which appear to be pretty strong. Also, where the fuck can I find an NV241 for a reasonable price? I'm surprised at how light the 231 is in comparison to the other cases... only 65 pounds!

Unless i'm mistaken the 241 is in rubi's and Ram 2500 + 3500's.

In other words, good luck at a junkyard.

Jim311
06-29-2005, 06:06 PM
Boooo

Swamp boy
06-29-2005, 08:42 PM
Hello????

Is anybody home???

Am I suposed to believe that Lousyana ZJ is giving out the best Tech advice on this site?????
:finga: :finga:

Must be everyone elses day off... :partyman: :drinkers: :weedman:

Kraqa
06-29-2005, 08:51 PM
I would go with the 231.

plain and simple.

less internal parts. tons of support. strong. reliable. and for what your goingto do its fine. :rolleyes:

nate
06-30-2005, 02:45 AM
241HD in my Dodge 2500.



So on that chart.. which NV249 are our grands equipped with? There are 3 seperate versions of the 249 apparently, some of which appear to be pretty strong. Also, where the fuck can I find an NV241 for a reasonable price? I'm surprised at how light the 231 is in comparison to the other cases... only 65 pounds!

Unless i'm mistaken the 241 is in rubi's and Ram 2500 + 3500's.

In other words, good luck at a junkyard.

TrojanMan
06-30-2005, 01:24 PM
241HD in my Dodge 2500.



So on that chart.. which NV249 are our grands equipped with? There are 3 seperate versions of the 249 apparently, some of which appear to be pretty strong. Also, where the fuck can I find an NV241 for a reasonable price? I'm surprised at how light the 231 is in comparison to the other cases... only 65 pounds!

Unless i'm mistaken the 241 is in rubi's and Ram 2500 + 3500's.

In other words, good luck at a junkyard.

I was right :drinkers:

EMS Paramedic
07-04-2005, 02:04 PM
Anthony,

I like the 242 case, especially if you want to use your jeep during our winters. The option of the 4WD F/T is nice to have when the MTO Plows forget patches of snow and ice on the 403 :P

--Phil

OverkillZJ
07-04-2005, 02:14 PM
Anthony,

I like the 242 case, especially if you want to use your jeep during our winters. The option of the 4WD F/T is nice to have when the MTO Plows forget patches of snow and ice on the 403 :P

--Phil
It's nice, but it's also the weakest tcase there is for our Jeeps. I guess it's irrelevant since I haven't heard of one blowing up anyway (exception of it being due to lack of care, abuse, and lack of lubrication.) I guess I really just like the simplicity of the 231, and the option of having 2-low which I find myself using constantly.

Jim311
07-05-2005, 07:14 AM
Anthony,

I like the 242 case, especially if you want to use your jeep during our winters. The option of the 4WD F/T is nice to have when the MTO Plows forget patches of snow and ice on the 403 :P

--Phil
It's nice, but it's also the weakest tcase there is for our Jeeps. I guess it's irrelevant since I haven't heard of one blowing up anyway (exception of it being due to lack of care, abuse, and lack of lubrication.) I guess I really just like the simplicity of the 231, and the option of having 2-low which I find myself using constantly.


A friend of mine is on his 3rd 242, and not because of poor maintenance. I'll never run a 242 in my rig after seeing his blow up so many times.

Swamp boy
07-05-2005, 09:13 AM
Ditto. .I have a video somewhere of me on a rockpile and about half way up you see my rig make a lurch and a loud pop and then my rear tires start spinning.. I made it up and over after a few back ups but when I opened my t case the full time 4WD planetary had blown apart ... It looked like someone put dynomite in it... :mrgreen: :mrgreen:

Other than that ......The 242 was very nice.... :smt003

OverkillZJ
07-05-2005, 09:46 AM
Well I guess I've heard of a 242 blowing up now!!! :weedman: :weedman:

Jim311
07-05-2005, 05:18 PM
Ditto. .I have a video somewhere of me on a rockpile and about half way up you see my rig make a lurch and a loud pop and then my rear tires start spinning.. I made it up and over after a few back ups but when I opened my t case the full time 4WD planetary had blown apart ... It looked like someone put dynomite in it... :mrgreen: :mrgreen:

Other than that ......The 242 was very nice.... :smt003


Same problem my buddy had. Oh.. and he's stretched TONS of chains too!]

TrojanMan
07-05-2005, 08:15 PM
My 242 has made it this far, but I haven't hit anything really hard yet.. there isn't much in charlotte. My big issue is that I -need- fulltime 4wd in order for my zj to be streetable. I might have to look into the 242 out of a hummer.

Kraqa
07-05-2005, 08:20 PM
My 242 has made it this far, but I haven't hit anything really hard yet.. there isn't much in charlotte. My big issue is that I -need- fulltime 4wd in order for my zj to be streetable. I might have to look into the 242 out of a hummer.

Care to explain this??


are you talkign about driving around town or the 1/4 mile. if so i woudl rather have a t-case with a central lock that ir reliable then one that uses a viscouse coupler (that slips)

TrojanMan
07-05-2005, 09:30 PM
My 242 has made it this far, but I haven't hit anything really hard yet.. there isn't much in charlotte. My big issue is that I -need- fulltime 4wd in order for my zj to be streetable. I might have to look into the 242 out of a hummer.

Care to explain this??


are you talkign about driving around town or the 1/4 mile. if so i woudl rather have a t-case with a central lock that ir reliable then one that uses a viscouse coupler (that slips)

I need full time on the streets because i'll spin the tires everywhere I go in 2WD. With 231 my options are limited to part time (which we all know isn't really an option on the road) or 2WD. My 242 gives me the option I need to keep it on the street. I'm only going to do the 1/4 mile one time, just because my friends are going and i'm curious to see what happens.

ELLLLLIOTTTTT
07-05-2005, 11:30 PM
My 242 has made it this far, but I haven't hit anything really hard yet.. there isn't much in charlotte. My big issue is that I -need- fulltime 4wd in order for my zj to be streetable. I might have to look into the 242 out of a hummer.

Care to explain this??


are you talkign about driving around town or the 1/4 mile. if so i woudl rather have a t-case with a central lock that ir reliable then one that uses a viscouse coupler (that slips)

I need full time on the streets because i'll spin the tires everywhere I go in 2WD. With 231 my options are limited to part time (which we all know isn't really an option on the road) or 2WD. My 242 gives me the option I need to keep it on the street. I'm only going to do the 1/4 mile one time, just because my friends are going and i'm curious to see what happens.

be a man, race in 4LO. :mrgreen:

TrojanMan
07-07-2005, 01:21 AM
My 242 has made it this far, but I haven't hit anything really hard yet.. there isn't much in charlotte. My big issue is that I -need- fulltime 4wd in order for my zj to be streetable. I might have to look into the 242 out of a hummer.

Care to explain this??


are you talkign about driving around town or the 1/4 mile. if so i woudl rather have a t-case with a central lock that ir reliable then one that uses a viscouse coupler (that slips)

I need full time on the streets because i'll spin the tires everywhere I go in 2WD. With 231 my options are limited to part time (which we all know isn't really an option on the road) or 2WD. My 242 gives me the option I need to keep it on the street. I'm only going to do the 1/4 mile one time, just because my friends are going and i'm curious to see what happens.

be a man, race in 4LO. :mrgreen:

Been there, done that.. its fun.

With the stroker putting it in 4lo will give me 1000 ft/lbs :finga:

JeepWJ
07-07-2005, 02:05 AM
What would you say about the 242HD?

How does it compare to the 231 when you factor in cost and maintenance?

TrojanMan
07-07-2005, 03:49 AM
What would you say about the 242HD?

How does it compare to the 231 when you factor in cost and maintenance?

I don't know anybody running a 242HD, but I do know that I want one.

nate
07-07-2005, 05:44 AM
I blew my 242 up.



Anthony,

I like the 242 case, especially if you want to use your jeep during our winters. The option of the 4WD F/T is nice to have when the MTO Plows forget patches of snow and ice on the 403 :P

--Phil
It's nice, but it's also the weakest tcase there is for our Jeeps. I guess it's irrelevant since I haven't heard of one blowing up anyway (exception of it being due to lack of care, abuse, and lack of lubrication.) I guess I really just like the simplicity of the 231, and the option of having 2-low which I find myself using constantly.

JeepWJ
07-08-2005, 01:43 AM
What would you say about the 242HD?

How does it compare to the 231 when you factor in cost and maintenance?

I don't know anybody running a 242HD, but I do know that I want one.

I hear that you can get 'em off of a Hummer H1.

Anyone know how much one would cost? Would it even be worth it... I would guess an Atlas would be just a bit more (and better).

OverkillZJ
07-08-2005, 01:46 AM
What would you say about the 242HD?

How does it compare to the 231 when you factor in cost and maintenance?

I don't know anybody running a 242HD, but I do know that I want one.

I hear that you can get 'em off of a Hummer H1.

Anyone know how much one would cost? Would it even be worth it... I would guess an Atlas would be just a bit more (and better).

I doubt the 242HD costs much, just like the 231HD can be had for just a tiny bit more than its lil' brother 231.

Than again... 242, though cool, seems to be overated? Full time 4wd... yaaaaay.... (And yes, I live where it snows. A lot.)

LouisianaZJ
07-08-2005, 02:29 AM
swampy got his 242D on the cheap. under $200 i think

it was from the junkyard

TrojanMan
07-09-2005, 12:16 AM
Lets not confuse the 242HD and the 242HD AMG

TrojanMan
08-07-2005, 08:50 PM
Sorry to bump an old thread.. but I have a funny situation now. Today my friend gave me a free ZJ 231. Not sure what to do with it. Should I build it w/ 4:1 and SYE and swap it in when I do my lift/LA/axles or should I find another TC?

I've decided I don't care about beeing streetable anymore, so what if I spin out every corner I turn? I kinda like it :mrgreen:


Oh, and don't try lieing to me, telling me the 231 is shitty, and try to get me to sell it to you. If it's worth the money I want to keep it. Its just that I kind of agree about building up a TC when I could buy another one already that good. What would you guys do?

LouisianaZJ
08-07-2005, 08:56 PM
sye and be done with it

TrojanMan
08-07-2005, 09:11 PM
sye and be done with it

you wouldn't do 4:1?

LouisianaZJ
08-07-2005, 09:14 PM
no :rock:

TrojanMan
08-07-2005, 11:37 PM
no :rock:

sounds good

LouisianaZJ
08-07-2005, 11:49 PM
it would probably be pretty cool with 4:1 and teh stroker, but i would rather dump that extra grand into axle stuff rather than a 231

TrojanMan
08-08-2005, 12:54 AM
it would probably be pretty cool with 4:1 and teh stroker, but i would rather dump that extra grand into axle stuff rather than a 231

Good point. I can always go back and do the 4:1 later on. I'd rather have lockers for that money.

Cue-Ball
11-30-2005, 08:03 PM
Sorry to bring this back from the dead, but what did you end up doing Trojan??

TrojanMan
11-30-2005, 09:04 PM
Keeping the 242 in to make it easier to drive on rainy days. I've been able to keep it decent in 2wd by keeping it easy on the skinny pedal, but I can tell the 42re isn't transferring all of the power (it's grinding, shaking, and hesitating) that it should. When I swap AW4 in i'll probably keep the 242 in because for my purposes the slightly stronger case isn't worth the trouble.

Cue-Ball
11-30-2005, 10:36 PM
do you still have that FREE 231 laying around???? Maybe you want to ship it out to me???

Krash80
11-30-2005, 10:51 PM
Care to explain this??


are you talkign about driving around town or the 1/4 mile. if so i woudl rather have a t-case with a central lock that ir reliable then one that uses a viscouse coupler (that slips)


For driving on snowy/icy roads, a locked center diff blows, and can actually cause you to lose control rather than help you maintain control around corners. With fulltime 4x4, you can use 4wd in the rain too to maintain much better control, and to beat ricers at stoplights.

Also, IIRC, the 242 doesn't have a viscous coupler...i believe it's either a completely open diff or like a limited slip type thing, but i'm pretty sure it's not a viscous coupler (anyone know for sure...i can't remember anymore).

I also don't know why a 231 is stronger than a 249...it's got to be the shaft because the chain and gears in a 249 are MUCH beefier than the ones in a 231. In this pic, the 231 gear and chain are on the left and the 249 ones are to the right:

Pictures from Sprint : Media Message (http://pictures.sprintpcs.com/guest/viewOriginal.do;jsessionid=arZUFkW2cJ_9?invite=kEJ r44mmPhUeyL1oo88Q&page=1&subject=A%20Picture%20Share!&msgno=0)

If someone has a weekend warrior ZJ with stock axles that they still use for daily driving applications in bad weather, a '96-'98 249 is probably the best choice. It's rated to take almost as much torque as the 231, and lets you have awesome control on the road in all weather conditions, and has a true low-lock. The 2wd feature of a 231 on a jeep w/ stock axles is pretty much pointless because all the crap in your front axle and your front driveshaft are still turning as you go down the road in 2wd. So unless you have manual front hubs, you gain almost nothing with a 2wd option on a t-case. About the only real advantage i can think of that a 231 has over a 249 (again, on the daily driven jeep on stock axles) is that you can get a REAL slip yoke eliminator for the 231...as in one that's NOT a hack and tap style.

There is NO good SYE available for a 242 either...they're ALL hack and tap styles, even the Tom Woods one....His SYE for the 242 is nothing more than a professionally hacked and tapped shaft...it's not at all like the SYE availabe for the 231.

I currently have a 242 from TCU under my jeep, as i'm still planning on using my ZJ for DD use in bad weather and there's nothing like having the fulltime 4x4 option. And instead of the weak(er) SYE, i have the rear d/s with the double cardan joint at the t-case end. I've already twisted the splines however in the yoke that slips into the t-case on this shaft, so i may end up having to go w/ a stronger case w/ a real SYE (like the 231).

i'm done babbling for now.

AND YOU BITCHES>>> this was all NEWB shit until I actually added some real tech to this thread. Thank God i saved it from being moved! :finga:

ATL ZJ
11-30-2005, 11:03 PM
i'll probably keep the 242 in because for my purposes the slightly stronger case isn't worth the trouble.

You don't even need 4x4 for your "purposes".

fr3db3ar
11-30-2005, 11:25 PM
My 242 has made it this far, but I haven't hit anything really hard yet.. there isn't much in charlotte. My big issue is that I -need- fulltime 4wd in order for my zj to be streetable. I might have to look into the 242 out of a hummer.

Since Cueball brought it back first :D This is solvable by easing up on the skinny pedal :smt115

JHKolb
12-01-2005, 10:06 AM
There is NO good SYE available for a 242 either...they're ALL hack and tap styles, even the Tom Woods one....His SYE for the 242 is nothing more than a professionally hacked and tapped shaft...it's not at all like the SYE availabe for the 231.

Not quite true - I had a 242 swapped into my XJ, I had an MIT SYE installed which is extremely heavy duty (but expensive), whole new shaft and rear output/cover. You can also have Tera do the 4:1 conversion to a 242 as well but you have to send your case half to them to do the machine work/install.

I ran this 242 w/8"+ lift and 35" MT/R's on some pretty hard terrain and it NEVER gave me a problem.

TrojanMan
12-01-2005, 03:42 PM
do you still have that FREE 231 laying around???? Maybe you want to ship it out to me???

I'm still considering using it when I swap my AW4 in.. I can't decide. If I don't use it, perhaps we could trade some transmission fluid for it?

TrojanMan
12-01-2005, 04:03 PM
Since Cueball brought it back first :D This is solvable by easing up on the skinny pedal :smt115

Works on dry land, but when the road gets wet it's super easy to spin tires.

Cue-Ball
12-01-2005, 11:44 PM
I'm still considering using it when I swap my AW4 in.. I can't decide. If I don't use it, perhaps we could trade some transmission fluid for it?

I am sure we can work something out if I have not picked one up by the time you decide.

nate
12-02-2005, 12:12 AM
I wish! Only time I can spin my tires is when I try real hard to. or I'm on ice.


Works on dry land, but when the road gets wet it's super easy to spin tires.

TrojanMan
12-02-2005, 12:17 AM
I wish! Only time I can spin my tires is when I try real hard to. or I'm on ice.

all I have to do is punch the gas:weedman:

Krash80
12-02-2005, 01:25 AM
Not quite true - I had a 242 swapped into my XJ, I had an MIT SYE installed which is extremely heavy duty (but expensive), whole new shaft and rear output/cover. You can also have Tera do the 4:1 conversion to a 242 as well but you have to send your case half to them to do the machine work/install.

I ran this 242 w/8"+ lift and 35" MT/R's on some pretty hard terrain and it NEVER gave me a problem.

good to know and this is all news to me. i should've stated, "as far as i know, there's no good SYE for a 242," because when i was looking for a SYE for mine a couple years ago i was completely unable to find anything like what you're describing.

Do you have any more info on this SYE? links, pics, price?

Thanks,
-Ron-

JHKolb
12-05-2005, 02:23 PM
good to know and this is all news to me. i should've stated, "as far as i know, there's no good SYE for a 242," because when i was looking for a SYE for mine a couple years ago i was completely unable to find anything like what you're describing.

Do you have any more info on this SYE? links, pics, price?

Thanks,
-Ron-

I might have pics of mine someplace - I will look. It was pricey - $465 + core just for the SYE plus the cost of a new driveshaft. From the research I did when I got mine the MIT seemed by far the strongest, most durable SYE available for either the 231 or 242.

chopshop
12-06-2005, 10:01 AM
The mainshaft thru the case is same diameter as the 231. so equal there. the 242 will fail the same at the tailshaft section like the 231 weak spot.

BUT, the chain gears are wayyy bigger, the chain is 1" wide, (231 is 7/8"), and check out the front output!! it's huge. as big as aftermarket d300/d20 outputs.


1.450" 32spline 242 vs 1.125" 26spline 231 front out put yoke.
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y166/chopshop69/377eba6d.jpg


242 assembly, 231 shafts. look at the difference in the size of the chain gears, and increased chain engagement. should really help "streched chain popping noise" of the 231.
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y166/chopshop69/3ffb7a43.jpg

this is a 231 front output shaft on top of the 242. the rusty brown gear compared to where the chain is on the 242 gear. quite a difference is diameter. It's important to note that strength increases are not linear with increase in diameter. ie: a twice as big diameter will be more than twice as strong.
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y166/chopshop69/a440db2e.jpg

the mainshaft is the same diameter thru the case as 231. the diff is only in use if you are wheeling in AWD. It is NOT a viscous coupler.

so i figure if you use regular 4x4 wheeling, you should be at the 231 strength, plus the noted bigger stuff. The diff in the case would not be in use during hard wheeling.

When in AWD, the sliding collar just engages the diff, and when all the way in, it engages the sprocket, just like a 231. and in low range the 242 functions exactly the same as a 231, with bigger chain and sprockets.

chopshop
12-06-2005, 10:21 AM
http://www.newventuregear.com/tcases.html

just looked at this from first page.
231 - 1885ft/lbs max torque
242 - 1486ft/lbs

huh?

TrojanMan
12-06-2005, 04:13 PM
So you're saying everything is bigger in the 242... yet new venture gives them a higher torque rating?:smt101

ATL ZJ
12-06-2005, 04:32 PM
Can't this argument just die already?

Cue-Ball
12-06-2005, 04:34 PM
Tastes Great


Less Filling

Mtn WJ
12-06-2005, 04:39 PM
Yea I have seen the same comparisons between the two. You are also correct that the 242 is not a VC design when in AWD or fulltime hi mode.

I like the 242 because of the AWD mode especially now with a full time locker in the rear and driving in the winter weather. It turns much better and safer.

I was told at a local shop once (HCP4x4) that NV says the 242 is actually stronger in stock form than the 231 and the specs on the 231 are based on older data and were not upgraded to reflect the actual strength like with the newer 242. Again that was from a semi reliable source and the guy was a Cherokee driver in a TJ centric shop which means he may be pumping up his rigs tcase for personal reasons. You never know.

One thing to note with the 242 in the WJs. They are slightly different and use a 1/4 inch longer front output shaft. This means when you swap to a Ujointed shaft in the front you will need to get the right yoke of change the shaft to a Cherokee style shaft up front. Otherwise you will have increased shaft thrust in and out potenially damgaing the bearings. I used a Cherokee shaft on mine and it swapped right in no problems.

However they both are good units and if you do not need the benifits of full time 4wd I would suggest getting the 231 because they have better aftermarket support. Support for the 242 is getting better but not as good as with the 231 (damn Wrangler owners always get the cool stuff first). There are also some shops that build custom heavy duty 231s out there like the one in Johns WJ.

chopshop
12-06-2005, 04:46 PM
just adding pics to this mostly crappy thread.

i didn't give an opinion on what i thought was stronger. i've blown up 3 231's, i only got 2 trails on the 242.

jeez

the big front out put was mentioned nowhere in the thread yet. some of you guys talk too much. this is tech section, i posted tech

:p

Mtn WJ
12-06-2005, 04:54 PM
Well hopefully we are not all argueing instead of learning something.

It seems to me we are finally learning something on this tired old thread.

chopshop
12-06-2005, 05:11 PM
yeah, like those torque values from the chart are probably wrong.

Mtn WJ
12-06-2005, 05:18 PM
Sorry if I am coming across as argueing. I was just stating what was said to me at a shop. I did qualify the statement too. I think people need to know the differences between them and decide for themselves which one to run.

chopshop
12-06-2005, 05:20 PM
So you're saying everything is bigger in the 242... yet new venture gives them a higher torque rating?:smt101

uuummm, no. NV gives them a lower rating.

chopshop
12-06-2005, 05:30 PM
nah, not arguing.

analize the pics. knowing the low range engages the same, there is no vc, and a bunch of stuff is bigger, it stands to reason that the 242 is at least as strong as the 231. the thing is tho, the 242/231 share the same diameter on the mainshaft where the 231 breaks all the time, by the tailcone.

sooo, it may just be the same.

i'm still working on breaking the 242, after checking the broken shit, then ya can form an opinion. right now i'm just thinking it's probably at least the same.

chopshop
12-06-2005, 05:44 PM
three posts by me in a row. lame-o. heh.

if you use that sye kit mentioned a few posts back with the new mainshaft, that would eliminate the weak small diameter by the tailcone, perhaps giving the 242 the strength advantage of the bigger chain/sprockets, over the 231.

wadda ya think?

Mtn WJ
12-06-2005, 05:49 PM
Well at least you will reduce the down force created against the big friggen lever of an output shaft. That is the one thing that scares me on the stock 242 with out an SYE.

ELLLLLIOTTTTT
12-06-2005, 05:50 PM
Can't this argument just die already?

X2.

chopshop
12-06-2005, 06:20 PM
"x2". so is this info that corrected 3 or 4 things wrong in this thread unwelcome? pics suck? trying to figure out shit based on dimensions instead of "my buddy broke his" ? thread was ruined on pg two with non-tech chatter?

i don't really come on here much, what's up? this site used to be good for this stuff.

now it's unwelcome?

DJJordache
12-06-2005, 07:58 PM
now it's unwelcome?
I like pics:D
I'm deciding which tcase to swap to from the 249 I have just sittin in the garage and was thinkin of getting the 242 mainly b/c MOST of the time the ZJ is stuck in houston traffic.
My brothers XJ 4.7 has a stock 242 with 210K miles and he is a real hardass with that stroker and no problems with it... so I figure a 242 should be ok behind my 4.slow

TrojanMan
12-06-2005, 10:27 PM
"x2". so is this info that corrected 3 or 4 things wrong in this thread unwelcome? pics suck? trying to figure out shit based on dimensions instead of "my buddy broke his" ? thread was ruined on pg two with non-tech chatter?

i don't really come on here much, what's up? this site used to be good for this stuff.

now it's unwelcome?

Not unwelcome to me. Hell, I like you. You can come home and have sex with my sister!


And I meant to say lower rating, not higher. I just got all excited when you posted the pics and there's a possibility that my 242 might not be a POS.

ILikeMud
12-06-2005, 11:30 PM
Oh, it a POS alright :p

I found out my ZJs got an NP231 in it so I'll just rebuild/reseal it and add an sye to it. It's getting kind of hard to shift so I figure a rebuild should help it out.

Krash80
12-07-2005, 02:31 AM
what the hell's up w/ puma and AtlZj??? you guys go back to the chit chat section where you belong....a post with this much tech info may hurt your brains. :snakeman: :flipoff2:

i like the info chopshop....for years everyone said the 249 was a junk t-case and that a 231 was way stronger...after comparing the chains/sprockets of the 2, i just couldn't see it. seeing pics like this helps all of us who run these cases (about 98% of us on this board) make informed decisions on what's best for our rigs.

thanks for the input.
-Ron-

JHKolb
12-07-2005, 02:10 PM
Strength issues aside, anyone know if a 242 from an '87 XJ is similiar to the 242 from a WJ? Bolt-in? Swap input shaft and bolt-in?

I'd like something other than my current 247 (mostly only because I want 4:1 and a 2wd option). I know a 231 is not too terrible a swap, and since the WJ did have a 242 available how similiar/different is it from the 242 from the XJ?

Kraqa
12-07-2005, 04:33 PM
Getting back to the locking center dif. The 249 has a viscous coupler I believe the power split is 40/60 front to rear. This gives you more push in the rear end, giving you a better feeling for DD on the road because it creates over steer.

The 231 is a locked t-case it is a true 50/50 split. This gives you a weird sensation no under steer no over steer. That is why the 249 feels great on the road.

For an off-road rig you WANT a 50/50 power split.

In the snow or ice it should not make much difference if you have a 50/50 or a 40/60 split. You are not driving fast enough to feel the difference between over steer and under steer.

Do not confuse the fact that I stated “locking” with a locking differential. It is a locking t-case.

DJJordache
12-07-2005, 06:06 PM
Strength issues aside, anyone know if a 242 from an '87 XJ is similiar to the 242 from a WJ? Bolt-in? Swap input shaft and bolt-in?

I'd like something other than my current 247 (mostly only because I want 4:1 and a 2wd option). I know a 231 is not too terrible a swap, and since the WJ did have a 242 available how similiar/different is it from the 242 from the XJ? taken from drivetrain.com
2000-02 WJ
NP247J 23 Spline front input, 27 rear slip, cup front output yoke, Quadra-Trac #40, .840 front input shaft
1985-89 XJ
NP242J Select-TRac, 21 spline input, 27 spline rear slip, two piece tail housing, fixed front yoke, 1.750" speedo, hole, two wire shift indicator on tail housing, .750 exposed input shaft.
you will have a real PITA with the swap:D the front input will change but the gear cuts might be wrong, the front driveshaft hookup will probably have to swap.... I think the WJ has the speedo pickup at the axles tone rings... I dunno about the shift indicator on WJ's
just use lots of duct tape during the swap and it will be ok!

Mtn WJ
12-07-2005, 08:24 PM
The WJ 242 is different however the internal parts and shafts can be swapped between the XJs and the WJ models. I have an XJ front output shaft in my WJ 242. This is because the WJ's front shaft is about a 1/4 inch longer and when changing from a cup style yoke to a yoke that will accept a ujoint style CV driveshaft the old front output shaft was too long and it moved in and out putting stress on the bearing/seal. The speedo sensor is in fact on the WJ's rear ABS tone rings however this will not matter if the tcase had the pick sensor you will just not use it. The Actual part number of the WJ's 242 is believe it or not NV 242 WJ. It seems though you would be better off just getting a WJ tcase. I am sure with the number of Laredo's running around you will be able to find one besides you will want the bezel to go with it to match up.

You can always go custom like others have with using either a 242 or 231 and at the end of the day it should run you around 1k to have the in and outputs shafts correct but have a new beefed up unit to boot.

JHKolb
12-07-2005, 09:13 PM
Yea, I can get a pretty good deal from CarolinaRockShop for a nice 231 to swap in, but with the snow we jusy got it might be nice to still have AWD which got me thinking a 242 may be better. Tera does have a 4:1 for the 242 available so I guess if I could find a decent donor WJ with a 242 and all the shift/trim pieces and with using the front output like you did it would still maintain an OEM appearance but be a much better case than the 247?

I wish I had the time and mechanical skills to fiddle with stuff myself but it is WAY easier for me just to pay someone to build me something and swap it in.

Krash80
12-08-2005, 12:02 AM
In the snow or ice it should not make much difference if you have a 50/50 or a 40/60 split.

makes a huge difference....the 60/40 thing is pretty much BS anyway. if you had a 60/40 split in the t-case it'd be like having 3.07 gears in the rear axle and 4.56's in the front axle. basically, the VC is nothing more than a totally open diff, with a little "limited slip" friction built in.

If you were going straight down the road the entire time, it would make absolutely no difference at all if you had a locked or an open t-case...in fact you'd probably be better off with it locked. but when you go around a curve, even a gentle one, the locked t-case can cause the vehicle to lose control. Any time the vehicle goes around a turn/curve, the front axle travels a greater distance than the rear trailing axle. With open diffs and an open t-case, the front driveshaft is allowed to rotate more times than the rear d/s as you go around the turn. If you've got both driveshafts locked together at the t-case and you go around a turn, you're forcing the tire(s) on at least one axle to skid...and that slight skidding of even one tire might be enough to send the vehicle careening out to the dark abyss of the tundra below.

For snowy/icy driving on the road, you can't beat AWD.

-Padre-

chopshop
12-08-2005, 04:14 AM
the 242 funtions as an open diff in the "full time" awd mode.

it locks front/rear driveshafts 50/50 in "part time" mode.

there is no VC!!!!!!!

Krash80
12-09-2005, 07:44 PM
the 242 funtions as an open diff in the "full time" awd mode.

it locks front/rear driveshafts 50/50 in "part time" mode.

there is no VC!!!!!!!

Kraqa and i were talking about the 249, not the 242.

Kraqa
12-09-2005, 08:17 PM
I agreee with the front moving more then the rear i never though of that.


The 60/40 split is a power split not a physical split in the drive shaft speed.

What this means is that the viscouse coupler will slip a littlt in the front where the rear will not. the rear is directly driven fron the main shaft. So if you encounter a verticle wall and you step on the gas it will not have the same "power" in the front as the rear. kinda the way you can step on the break and the gas at the same time and the torque converter will slip and not move the vehicle. Does this make sence? if not i'l try to explain it better next time.

JHKolb
12-12-2005, 04:13 PM
Barring the strength debate between cases, anyone know if an NV242WJ will directly swap in place of an NV247WJ?

I would like to get 2wd capability but still want to be able to have full-time 4wd for bad weather street driving. I can get decent pricing on a New Mopar 242WJ and have Tera add the 4:1 and still be well under the price of an Atlas or even a used 231 (w/4:1, SYE, 2-Lo) and not have to deal with any indicator and speed control wiring.

Any input is appreciated!

Mtn WJ
12-12-2005, 06:36 PM
It will swap in however you will need or want to change out your front drive shaft if you have not done so already. The weakest link on a WJ with any kind of lift is the front drive shaft which uses CV joints and they eventually will break. You will need to change the yoke on both the Tcase and the front diff and they get a double cardon cv type drive shaft. This will cost on top of the tcase apx 300-400 including yokes.

The Rear drive shaft will swap with out a problem unless ofcourse you go with a SYE on the 242 and then you will need to get a new longer drive shaft with the correct ujoint and one that slides.

JHKolb
12-12-2005, 06:49 PM
It will swap in however you will need or want to change out your front drive shaft if you have not done so already. The weakest link on a WJ with any kind of lift is the front drive shaft which uses CV joints and they eventually will break. You will need to change the yoke on both the Tcase and the front diff and they get a double cardon cv type drive shaft. This will cost on top of the tcase apx 300-400 including yokes.

The Rear drive shaft will swap with out a problem unless ofcourse you go with a SYE on the 242 and then you will need to get a new longer drive shaft with the correct ujoint and one that slides.

Thanks, yea I was definately planning on getting new DS's anyway.