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View Full Version : Death Wobble... no not newbie shit!



nate
06-11-2005, 02:09 PM
Mod, throw this in the newbie section if you really feel that's were it goes.

Ok, we have determined that death wobble is caused by worn suspension parts, mainly trackbar/steering stuff, improper toe and improper caster.

Now let's say the setup is new with new parts, all tight. The caster is good, and so is the toe, but you can't go over 40mph due to death wobble. What would a person do? (Other than give up and burn the Jeep to the ground)

Setup is radius arm front (Rock Control), Chevy steering, Q78 TSLs.

Nordic1
06-11-2005, 02:43 PM
Tires balanced? I actually had DW cuased by worn out (and unbalanced) tires once

nathaniel
06-11-2005, 04:02 PM
Tires balanced? I actually had DW cuased by worn out (and unbalanced) tires once

I agree worn out or unbalanced tires, Bent wheels, bad ball joints, hubs, loose steering.

What are your #'s on toe and caster?

ATL ZJ
06-11-2005, 04:27 PM
A few ideas:

-Recheck tightness of everything in your front end.

-Make sure none of your bolt holes are ovaled out. If they are, replace the mounts or weld washers on both sides.

-Make sure you didn't overream anything.

-Try a different caster angle.

-Try swapping another set of tires and wheels on.

-If none of this works, replace (or add) steering stabilizer to allow you to drive until you get it fixed.

Swamp boy
06-12-2005, 12:14 AM
[

I agree worn out or unbalanced tires, Bent wheels, bad ball joints, hubs, loose steering.

What are your #'s on toe and caster?


Exactly what I would have said... :smt003

nate
06-13-2005, 02:07 PM
Nah it's all new stuff.

Tires balanced? hahahahahahahahahhaha. They are Swampers... they don't really "balance". Caster is like 10*, toe about 1/4" or so. I rode it around about 100 miles this weekend and it's getting better. Tires were square I think. I'm gonna put a steering stabilizer on and that should be good enough for me.

BTW, Swampers rock. I'll never run anything else.

Ken L
06-13-2005, 03:12 PM
Swampers do give everything a funny shake until they find round again. Mine do have a bunch of weights on the rims, but I still have my suspicions about balance.

nathaniel
06-13-2005, 03:56 PM
Nah it's all new stuff.

Tires balanced? hahahahahahahahahhaha. They are Swampers... they don't really "balance". Caster is like 10*, toe about 1/4" or so. I rode it around about 100 miles this weekend and it's getting better. Tires were square I think. I'm gonna put a steering stabilizer on and that should be good enough for me.

BTW, Swampers rock. I'll never run anything else.

drop the toe to 1/16 or less. Caster seems a little extreme but i dont think it woulld cause dw. You'll probably have to run a ss due to the swampers. What psi you running?.

BTW I have had my trackbar broken in half and still drive done the street fine with no dw.

chadjans
06-14-2005, 12:49 AM
I have a really bad case too. About died coming off the 101 to the 60. Shook VIOLENTLY. How does one check hubs? Jack up the jeep off the tires and rock the wheels?

Chad

norcaljr
06-14-2005, 03:10 AM
shouldnt your caster be closer to 5*. 10* seems a lot.

nate
06-14-2005, 05:43 AM
Dunno. Would too much caster be bad too?

Yeah I gotta adjust the toe back, I had it at around 1/8" and it didn't make a difference between that and 1/4", maybe a bit more. Just hard on my tires.

JeepinHank
06-14-2005, 09:08 AM
I have a really bad case too. About died coming off the 101 to the 60. Shook VIOLENTLY. How does one check hubs? Jack up the jeep off the tires and rock the wheels?

Chad

Pretty much just jack up the tire, put your hands at 12 & 6, and rock the tire in and out. If you have any play, your hubs are worn out.

In my experiences, you'll hear a clunking / light grinding noise when they start to fail on you. Similar to a u-joint going bad. We spent a good couple of weeks diagnosing that noise on my buddy's XJ, and finally got rid of it when we replaced the hubs.

Vonzipper
06-14-2005, 10:58 AM
Dunno. Would too much caster be bad too?

Yeah I gotta adjust the toe back, I had it at around 1/8" and it didn't make a difference between that and 1/4", maybe a bit more. Just hard on my tires.

No nate too much caster is not bad, You have to run the fine line between pinion angle and caster. It's nice to hear your rollin

ROKN ZJ
06-14-2005, 11:21 AM
Nah it's all new stuff.

Tires balanced? hahahahahahahahahhaha. They are Swampers... they don't really "balance". Caster is like 10*, toe about 1/4" or so. I rode it around about 100 miles this weekend and it's getting better. Tires were square I think. I'm gonna put a steering stabilizer on and that should be good enough for me.

BTW, Swampers rock. I'll never run anything else.

I say it's the swampers. I noticed a HUGE change in handling/drivability going from SXs to MTRs. But if you'll never run anything else I guess get used to it...

ATL ZJ
06-14-2005, 12:14 PM
Dunno. Would too much caster be bad too?

Yeah I gotta adjust the toe back, I had it at around 1/8" and it didn't make a difference between that and 1/4", maybe a bit more. Just hard on my tires.

No nate too much caster is not bad, You have to run the fine line between pinion angle and caster. It's nice to hear your rollin

Always lean to the side of enough caster though... pinion angle is MUCH less important than avoiding DW, especially in non fulltime 4wd rigs.

Jim311
06-14-2005, 12:42 PM
Find some street tires and run them and see if you have the same problem. A friend of mine was having bad DW even after replacing all his bushings and making sure everything was tight. It turns out 40 inch IROKs can give anything deathwobble.. who knew?!

Vonzipper
06-15-2005, 01:04 AM
Nate, Just get a bigger steering wheel. I thought Alaska was suppose to make you tough...... :finga:

nate
06-15-2005, 06:31 AM
Haha.

I'm pretty sure it's the tires after driving it some. It will do it sometimes, other times not. Really just at 45mph. If I go faster or slower it's pretty much not there. I'm going to fab up a steering stabilizer mount and see if that helps me out a bit. I'm not real worried, as long as I can make it to the trail and back, I'm happy.

Yeah I have 315/75/16 MTRs on my truck, they are decent. Last long and a good load rating. I don't consider them much of a wheeling tire for Alaska though. In the rocks, seems like they do ok, but here just about all the trails have mud. The switch from the Uniroyals to these Swampers was better than going from open diffs to dual lockers IMO.

Kraqa
06-15-2005, 08:40 PM
my swampers do that to. no stearing stabilizer it starts aroudn 30 but once i get over 45-50 it gos' away....almost. man after GSW i'm getting good at your funky speed/temp system. krazy yankee's/.

FinlayZJ
06-16-2005, 08:42 AM
Jeep spec is 5 to 7* of caster. 10* might be a bit too much.

nate
06-18-2005, 01:55 AM
Possible. To measure, I put my angle finder on teh upper ball joint, would that make sense or is that wrong?

FinlayZJ
06-20-2005, 09:23 PM
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v296/FinlayZJ/caster.jpg

KevinF
07-05-2005, 10:18 PM
We normally check caster using the lower "C" portion of the knuckle, putting the angle finder parallel with the tire and slightly "cambered" toward the center of the Jeep at the bottom due to the angle of the "C". I'd say that 10* caster is WAY too much. I've found that there is such a thing as too much caster in my experience. Try for 4* and go up in 1/2* increments to find the one spot that seems to be better than the others. Normally 4.5* is where it's at.

(an aside...when checking caster, make sure the Jeep is parked level and doesn't sag in the front or the rear. Even a little bit will change your caster setting versus level).

I've found that toe-in should not exceed 1/8" in ANY case, and yours should be more like a 64th less than 0 with those monster tires. The factory spec is 3/16", to which I say "feh". Even with a budget boost, 3/16" is too much.

The suggestion to swap to street tires is a good one in order to get all the bugs worked out and get the tires aligned correctly. Once you get it dialed in, then you can put the Swampers back on.

Here are a bunch of other things to check, some of them mentioned previously:

- Hub bearings
- Track bar flex, particularly at the bend (like an accordian)
- Track bar bushing deflection
- Lower control arm bushings
- Upper and lower ball joints
- Toe in
- Caster
- Loose bolts in the track bar
- Loose upper track bar joint
- Wheel out of round or bent
- Tire out of round or bubbled
- Runout on the tread of the tire while on balance machine (flat spots)
- Bad (or missing, lol) steering stabilizer
- Control arm length should be equal left and right
- Wheel mounting surfaces free of rust and grime
- Wheel perfectly parallel with wheel mounting surface

Anyway, I'm sure that there is a lot more. Feel free to add to the list.

Let us know if you cure the problem and what you found to be the most effective change.

HTH,
Kevin

nate
07-06-2005, 08:31 AM
I put a steering stabilizer on and problem is solved :mrgreen: I think most of the problem was from the unblanced Swampers.. They are balanced, but really... like Swampers are round even haha.

I have to dial in the toe and caster, but I wanted to get teh SS on there first to see what that did.

Made a mount, goes off the top diff bolts to the tie rod. Moddifed a OME SD40 I had lying around and it worked out great.

doyll
07-28-2005, 12:53 PM
And the lesson here Boys and Girls is:

ALWAYS HAVE A GOOD STEERING STABILIZER

SS is an integal part of system!

PS:
Seem's kinda Newbie to me to complain about DW without having a SS... I'm a noOb here. :supz:

BigDaveZJ
07-28-2005, 03:57 PM
And the lesson here Boys and Girls is:

ALWAYS HAVE A GOOD STEERING STABILIZER

SS is an integal part of system!




A steering stabilizer is simply a band-aid to cover up imperfections in the rest of the system. If it's so integral, how do so many run without it and have no problems??

doyll
07-28-2005, 04:26 PM
If it isn't so intetegral, how come almost all rigid axle frontends come from the factory with them? Hell, even little old VW bugs had steering stablizers!

Steering stabilizers are nothing more then a shock obsorber.. They obsorb the shock when wheel hits a bump and pulls sideways as well as when wheel is swinging back to center, and past if SS isn't strong enough. DW is the oscillation of wheel side to side and SS trys to control it. What caused the oscilliation is the problem.. Yes, if the problem is bent rims, out of balance tires, etc., the SS can be kind of a "bandaid" but they do alot more then that!!

I assume you use shock obsorbers on your vehicles? Well the spring oscillation is the bounce of the spring, and shock obsorber controls it, but it also controls dive, sway, etc.

Steering Stabelizer does same kind of job a shock obsorber does.. just in a different direction. :supz:

BigDaveZJ
07-28-2005, 08:07 PM
A steering stabilizer is important, but not integral. Integral implies "required." Matt (OverkillZJ) drove from PA to Moab and back, PA to Moab to AZ to CO back to PA, and all sorts of other stuff with no steering stabilizer and not a hint of DW. Hmm, doesn't sound so integral to me!!

And I wouldn't call the steering stabilizers on the old VW bugs a steering stabilizer, the thingie that keeps my front door from slamming shut is bigger than those were.

gearhead313
07-28-2005, 08:20 PM
And the lesson here Boys and Girls is:

ALWAYS HAVE A GOOD STEERING STABILIZER

SS is an integal part of system!




A steering stabilizer is simply a band-aid to cover up imperfections in the rest of the system. If it's so integral, how do so many run without it and have no problems??


true story

I have never had death wobble and have always had the STOCK steering stabilizer. Saying that it is simply a band-aid/cover-up is totally correct. If you have to run a super sick dual SS setup, then there is something else wrong with the front end.

doyll
07-28-2005, 08:25 PM
gearhead313: So you are saying that DC put a much stronger SS on stock then they needed? Cus with your bigger tires and wheels, more offset, and lift is sure putting more strain on things.. Stock rigs with stock SS's "bandaid" don't usually have DW... but modded rigs do. I guess you be Da Man! and everyone else modding their rigs is doing something wrong?

doyll
07-28-2005, 08:37 PM
BigDaveZJ: So you are saying that because Matt drove thousands of miles without ever having a hint of DW, SS aren't needed. Gee! With that logic, we don't need to carry spare tires either. BULL FEATHERS!! We sure don't need sway bars! MONKEY WINGS!! Probably don't need shocks too cus if you don't ever hit any bad bumps you are fine? HORSE PUCKY!! We don't need seat belts either.. unless we get in a wreck!

Steering Dampners are to STOP DEATH WOBBLE by stopping the front wheels from having a minor oscilation developing into DEATH WOBBLE!! Same as a shock obsorber stops spring oscillation from bouncing vehicle and tires right off the road.

Try hitting a set of rough railroad tracks that run at a diagonal acrost the road. First one hits and is whipped out a little, as it comes back toward center, other side hits and pulls whips it along with movement it already has.. and as it swings back BANG! other side hits agien.. and away it goes DW!! now put SS into the picture here: it slows or stops the swing each time wheel is pulled off center. No DW!!

You sound like you have never experienced DW!

If it's not an "intergral" part, why is it "standard" equipment? Not just on Jeeps, but almost all rigid axle frontends. (and some others)

Heck! Even old VW Bugs have a SS stock on them.

BigDaveZJ
07-28-2005, 08:45 PM
My rig hasn't had sway bars for the last 40,000 miles . . . . . so not the best comparison there slick.

And the spare tire is only along in case something goes wrong, kinda like the steering stabilizer!! You only need it when you have other parts that are fucked up. It's a bandaid. It absorbs imperfections from the rest of your steering system. Another bad comparison.

And the VW thing, you already tried that argument and I already shredded it apart.

If the frond end is tight, aligned properly, and the wheels and tires are balanced correctly, there should be no need for a steering stabilizer. But how many people actually do the maintenence on required to keep things all how they should be? Not many. And there you have the birth of the steering stabilizer.

doyll
07-28-2005, 08:53 PM
Okay Dave, I sure hope you don't have to make any high speed lane changes to avoid something on the road.. cus your rig is sure going to be doings some wild dancing around on the road.. and I'll bet your knuckes will be white! :finga:

Your spare tire answer is right on!!! IN CASE SOMETHING GOES WRONG!!!

"And I wouldn't call the steering stabilizers on the old VW bugs a steering stabilizer, the thingie that keeps my front door from slamming shut is bigger than those were." = " And the VW thing, you already tried that argument and I already shredded it apart." BUT THEY WORKED!!!

Automotive engineers must be mighty stupid putting all these steering stabilizers, sway bars, etc on our rig from the factory!! :supz:

BigDaveZJ
07-28-2005, 09:05 PM
Hmmm, made quite a few high speed lane changes without sway bars. It's called knowing how to drive and knowing what your vehicle does in certain situations.

You still have failed to prove two things to me:

1) Why steering stabilizers are an integral part of a steering sytem

2) That you know your ass from a hole in the ground

gearhead313
07-28-2005, 09:10 PM
If the frond end is tight, aligned properly, and the wheels and tires are balanced correctly, there should be no need for a steering stabilizer. But how many people actually do the maintenence on required to keep things all how they should be? Not many. And there you have the birth of the steering stabilizer.


good lord i couldn't have said it better myself.




As far as engineering placing sways, ss's, etc on vehicles. . . Its safety. Its road manners. Its doing anything and everything the manufacture can do to keep a vehicle as safe as possible and also driving smooth and composed. This has nothing to do with modified rigs. Most people that lift and hack a ZJ of all things know what they want and how to make it that way.

BigDaveZJ
07-28-2005, 09:13 PM
As far as engineering placing sways, ss's, etc on vehicles. . . Its safety. Its road manners. Its doing anything and everything the manufacture can do to keep a vehicle as safe as possible and also driving smooth and composed.


Keep in mind these are also the same engineers that came up with the Dana 35, the 249, and torx bolts!!!

nate
07-28-2005, 09:33 PM
Yeah that's true Dave. In my case the imperfection was the tires. They are just too out of round to not cause death wobble without a SS. If I were running a set of MTRs or whatever, I wouldn't need it.



And the lesson here Boys and Girls is:

ALWAYS HAVE A GOOD STEERING STABILIZER

SS is an integal part of system!




A steering stabilizer is simply a band-aid to cover up imperfections in the rest of the system. If it's so integral, how do so many run without it and have no problems??

doyll
07-28-2005, 09:43 PM
gearhead said: "As far as engineering placing sways, ss's, etc on vehicles. . . Its safety. Its road manners. 1* Its doing anything and everything the manufacture can do to keep a vehicle as safe as possible and also driving smooth and composed. 2* This has nothing to do with modified rigs. Most people that lift and hack a ZJ of all things know what they want and how to make it that way."


1* "KEEP A VEHICLE AS SAFE AS POSSIBLE" That's what shocks, steering stablilizers, sway bars, etc. are all about.

2* I'm sorry, but many of the people modding their rigs have little or no knowledge of what they are doing. They are following what we tell them about their vehicles and what to and not to do.


BigDave, D35's are fine within their limitations, and the 249 is okay on highway. I hate to say it, but most jeeps are "grocery getter." Look at how many 4 wheel drive vechicles are on the road today and how many are offroad. Only a very small percentage of 4 wheel drive really go 4wheeling.

doyll
07-28-2005, 09:48 PM
Okay nate. But SS did allow you to keep control of your vehicle. :mrgreen: and before you couldn't :mrgreen: :supz:

OverkillZJ
07-28-2005, 10:05 PM
Um, ya, a SS will only mask underlying problems. It's also nice to have to help absorb sudden shocks from rocks against your wrists on the trails, but if everything is set up properly, no worn components, with round and balanced tires: You won't know you don't have one.

I haven't had one for two years. Not a trail rig, I've taken it to Moab for the last two years on 7000 mile road trips each. No shimmy, death wobble, bump steer, nothing.

BigDaveZJ
07-28-2005, 10:14 PM
Have you not figured out yet that this site is about the COMPLETE opposite of keeping a vehicle safe ON the road? This site is about wheeling and making a Jeep the best it can be on the trail. Most of us are more than willing to sacrifice road comfort for trail ability.

You still have not proven you know your ass from a hole in the ground though. You just signed up on this site and come in here talking like you know everything, but give us NO reason to believe you know anything. So why do you know everything oh mighty great know-everything-guy?



:finga:

doyll
07-28-2005, 10:54 PM
Nope I don't know everything. Many more things then I do know. But there are some things I know.

A few of them are: 1* Steering Stabilizers are an important part to have on a jeep. 2* Many of the readers on there forums are young adults with limited experience. 3* Making statements that steering stabilizers and sway bars are not needed is irresponsible and could may get someone killed.

I just hope and pray these young adults have more sense then to listen to all you guys beating your chests saying "Real men don't use steering stabilizers. and sway bars"

You need to step back and look at what statements like that can lead to.

I stand by my statement; "Always have a good Steering Stabilizer" I will also add "Always have good tires, good shocks, and good brakes" and "Run at least your front sway bar on the street."

You should not be missleading the readers into thinking it's safe and responsible to drive on the street with no steering stabilizer or swaybar.

May God help you if you ever loose control when you are driveing with no SS or swaybar and kill someone, because if it does happen (and i pray it never does) you will have to live with knowing you KILLED them. :goodman:

BigDaveZJ
07-28-2005, 11:18 PM
Where did I say it was okay to run without a swaybar?? All I said was I run without one. Do I recommend to people that they just ditch their sways? Nope. I know how important they are, especially at taller heights. I'm at 3.5" with 33's, not very tall at all and my ZJ is tippy as shiznit on the road, and people think I'm gonna roll everytime I turn in a parking lot with the spooled rear end.

My basic point is this, yes I know steering stabilizers and swaybars are good things to have on a rig. I have a SS, but no sways. There's no way in hell I could ever get my wheels balanced enough to run without a SS. I don't let just anyone drive my rig on the road either. I can count on one hand how many people have driven my rig on the street, every one of those with me in the passenger seat making sure things are okay, and all but one of them besides me have been in parking lots or empty roads. I know when my rig is in an unsafe condition, and I know how she handles well enough to not put myself in a situation it can't handle. People here know my background and know that most of the time I have an idea of what I'm talking about, we don't have that with you. We don't know who you are, and you come on here spewing info like you know shit, I'm simply wanting to know a little background on you.

nate
07-28-2005, 11:42 PM
My Jeep wasn't out of control without a SS, but it was annoying.

I don't run any swaybars, and really it's not noticable enough to bother. Now compare it to a stock ZJ, yes it does lean more, but it's not bad at all.

Also figure my Jeep sees the street to get to the trail or maybe to get a gallon of milk if the truck is blocked in the driveway. I have put just over 500 miles on it in 2.5 months.

OverkillZJ
07-29-2005, 12:15 AM
A few of them are: 1* Steering Stabilizers are an important part to have on a jeep.




In some situations where the sytem requires it (read in this case: super swampers then yes.) They were never and will never be a safety device. If you get death wobble or shimmy without one, THERE IS SOMETHING ELSE WRONG, NO IFS ANDS OR BUTS.)


2* Many of the readers on there forums are young adults with limited experience. 3* Making statements that steering stabilizers and sway bars are not needed is irresponsible and could may get someone killed.


I get the distinct impression that you're on the wrong forum. Can we get an age check, please? I think you'd be surprised to find what the age of the common user on this forum is compared to say, JU. The average should be around 30.



I just hope and pray these young adults have more sense then to listen to all you guys beating your chests saying "Real men don't use steering stabilizers. and sway bars"


Ok, what the hell is your problem? I had no problem with you before this, but why don't you get the fuck off of your soap box and realize that what you say isn't necessarily 100% correct? A SS is not a safety device, but it will be a weapon if I beat the fuck out of you with it.


You need to step back and look at what statements like that can lead to.


Wow, you're kinda annoying



I stand by my statement; "Always have a good Steering Stabilizer" I will also add "Always have good tires, good shocks, and good brakes" and "Run at least your front sway bar on the street."



Suck my cock.



You should not be missleading the readers into thinking it's safe and responsible to drive on the street with no steering stabilizer or swaybar.
I won't drive my rig without my front connected, but frankly the short arm rigs I've driven without sways connected are not bad. Drive accordingly and dont' be an idiot. Remember you're not driving a ricer and leave plenty of distance. You're essentialy driving a brick on wheels with slinkys for suspensin.



May God help you if you ever loose control when you are driveing with no SS or swaybar and kill someone, because if it does happen (and i pray it never does) you will have to live with knowing you KILLED them. :goodman:

The only thing I'll be praying about is that you get the hell of your god damn soap box.

Oh, and for the record, if any of you are as much of a dick on here as I'm probably coming across as on the forum right now, there's a pretty good chance I'll ban your ass :weedman: :finga:

Oh, and: :overkill:

I had a bad day. Fuggeroff.

doyll
07-29-2005, 12:41 AM
:mrgreen: :butthead: I'm laughing so hard I can hardly find the keys :axe: :prayer: I Give! I Give! :supz: You guys are okay!!:finga:

Hope tomorrow is a better day for you! :rock: :mrgreen: Maybe I won't rag on you so much.. Hum.. only time will tell.. :mrgreen: :finga: :mrgreen:

BigDaveZJ
07-29-2005, 01:17 AM
:mrgreen: :butthead: I'm laughing so hard I can hardly find the keys :axe: :prayer: I Give! I Give! :supz: You guys are okay!!:finga:

Hope tomorrow is a better day for you! :rock: :mrgreen: Maybe I won't rag on you so much.. Hum.. only time will tell.. :mrgreen: :finga: :mrgreen:


If you can handle the ration of shit that Matt just give you and laugh it off there are only two possibilities.

1) You were destined to be a member of MallCrawlin

2) You're an even bigger fucktard than we originally thought!!!


On a serious note though, anything said on this forum is expected to be backed by some level of credibility. Most of us on this board have been on boards together for a while, so we know who has credibility. We also know who doesn't know what they're talking about, like Chase for example. If you speak from your own real life experience on this board, you will get respect, if you say "my brother's ex-wife's cousin's former roommate's sex change surgeon said you need a steering stabilizer" we will point and laugh and make fun of you.

OverkillZJ
07-29-2005, 09:32 AM
LMAO, I WAS in a pissy mood last night wasn't I?

doyll
07-29-2005, 10:45 AM
We all have our :smt093 days... :smt005 or nights.. whatever :coffee: Hope today is better. NOT!! :screwy: :rofl:

gearhead313
07-29-2005, 10:51 AM
2) You're an even bigger fucktard than we originally thought!!!





:finga: ..true story

doyll
07-29-2005, 11:44 AM
Thanks gearhead! Thats a real complement for a "Parking Lot King" :toimonst: :supz:

Kraqa
07-29-2005, 12:40 PM
wow how did i miss this thread???

i got in this same argumant with the tire guys at Kaltire. The whole store told me that i can't drive a truck without a steering stabilizer or i will have DW.


at that time i was runnign the same 38" tires that are clearly egg shaped. and i had no DW. i only started to get it after the accident and i have a bent rim. now i have to run a SS until i buy a new rim.


this Doyll guy seems liek he has some knowledge. But clearly no practicle off road experience other then the occasional weekend bush wack.

buying parts and botling them on is one thing. being able to design build tune and wheel your rig is another. I think once he gets used to the atmosphere here he will understand what this place is about. For now it just seems liek he wants to post on everythread weather he can back up his info or not.

doyll
07-29-2005, 01:28 PM
Wheelin isn't Roadin... and Rock Crawlin is a different kind of wheelin.

Kraqa... common.. I'll whak you with some of that brush!! :axe: :yawinkle:

I've got a few years of Wheelin under my belt, but no big Rock Crawlin.. My last "built" rig was a 74 yota FJ40 w/ spring over, lift, lockers, pto winch, OBA, blaa, blaa. That was 18 years ago in Denver.. We ran alot of the trails around there: Red Cone (is a nice Sunday drive, NBD), can't remember names.. a bunch in back of Boulder... Many are closed now, thanks to tree huggers. :( Rock Crawlin was just beginning... lifts were usually real stiff springs, mine was soft w/stif shocks.. I kept I6 and built torque for crawling. Same era I was heavily into off road desert racing and stadium racing VW buggies and Bajas. A few years back my son got a 97XJ and while I was visiting him we lifted it 3.5, put on 33/9.5's he said he'd heard of some trails in the San Bernideno's so off we went. We started at top and ran Deep Creek. No big deal, but I notice all the rigs coming up were short WB's w/35's or bigger.. lockers, etc. only saw a couple midsize WB's.. one XJ and a 4runner coming up... and they were kinda laughing at us with skinny tires and only 3.5. Blaa, Blaa, Blaa.. Anyway, went all the way to stream and back to top, no problem. According to 4wheeling book he had, it was supposed to be one of the toughest around????? Was a little challenging, but no big deal in my book. Not bragging, just a little background material ... give you guys something else to rag on me with :finga: Sorry I harrassed you guys so much yesterday, but I did learn something (besides you are all a bunch of geaks).. This forum isn't like most of the others. You guys do know your s**it ... Damn.. I DIDN'T MEAN THAT!! :butthead: :finga: :supz:

Kraqa
07-29-2005, 02:24 PM
i think its time this site develops a mission statement.


and PS you can swear on this board. lol.

were all having fun here.

chadjans
07-31-2005, 03:06 AM
Does a hydrolic ram count as a steering dampner/stablizer? If not I am fucked. :prayer:

ELLLLLIOTTTTT
07-31-2005, 03:14 AM
do you go by lloyed on JU? if so the first day i gto on JU in like 3 months we were tlaking aobut this and you were wrong then lkei you were wrong now, but htats ok becuase its JU nobody cares. i ran w/oitu a SS for a week, no prollems, g. mo money mo prollems but no stablizer no prollems, G.

OverkillZJ
07-31-2005, 10:31 AM
do you go by lloyed on JU? if so the first day i gto on JU in like 3 months we were tlaking aobut this and you were wrong then lkei you were wrong now, but htats ok becuase its JU nobody cares. i ran w/oitu a SS for a week, no prollems, g. mo money mo prollems but no stablizer no prollems, G.

drunk? :partyman: :drinkers:

:finga:

doyll
07-31-2005, 11:39 AM
Only for a week? If it's only a "bandaid", why do you run one at all? I guess bandaids, baling wire and duct tape are better then building it right. :axe: :mrgreen:

ELLLLLIOTTTTT
07-31-2005, 01:06 PM
Only for a week? If it's only a "bandaid", why do you run one at all? I guess bandaids, baling wire and duct tape are better then building it right. :axe: :mrgreen:

WTF do u know about building a zedjay?

doyll
07-31-2005, 02:18 PM
Only for a week? If it's only a "bandaid", why do you run one at all? I guess bandaids, baling wire and duct tape are better then building it right. :axe: :mrgreen:

WTF do u know about building a zedjay?

This is my first ZJ, and I've had it 4 months.

WTF do u know? :finga: U some kinda god or guru? :finga: How much experience U got? :finga: How many 4wd's have U built and wheeled? :finga:

Back up your beliefs with fact!! :finga:

And U didn't answer my question: WHY DO YOU RUN ONE THEN?!?!

If you can't stand the heat, don't come off the porch! :finga: :supz: :mrgreen:

OverkillZJ
07-31-2005, 02:27 PM
The next post to this thread better be TECH and not BULLSHIT or I'm banning you.

doyll
07-31-2005, 02:37 PM
Seriously; It doesn't matter what vehile it is, if it's not independent suspension and are rigid axles, there are only 2 major differences... coil springs and leaf springs.. might be a few torsion bar systems.. don't know.

Each vehicle has it's own quarks, so I always ask the guys who build and wheel them before I jump.

I know most of you guys know your stuff. A few like to beat their chest :mrgreen: (me too) Playing devil's advocate can be fun sometimes. :snakeman: :mrgreen:

I think I show good reasons for what I say. You can take it or leave it. I've been learning from you guys here. (hate to admit it though). :finga: But some of the bantering back and forth is just that. Nothing to back up the claims. And if the claims can't be backedup, they carry no weight in my book.

SO KISS MY A$$ :butthead: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:

OverkillZJ
07-31-2005, 02:42 PM
Seriously; It doesn't matter what vehile it is, if it's not independent suspension and are rigid axles, there are only 2 major differences... coil springs and leaf springs.. might be a few torsion bar systems.. don't know.

Each vehicle has it's own quarks, so I always ask the guys who build and wheel them before I jump.

I know most of you guys know your stuff. A few like to beat their chest :mrgreen: (me too) Playing devil's advocate can be fun sometimes. :snakeman: :mrgreen:

I think I show good reasons for what I say. You can take it or leave it. I've been learning from you guys here. (hate to admit it though). :finga: But some of the bantering back and forth is just that. Nothing to back up the claims. And if the claims can't be backedup, they carry no weight in my book.

SO KISS MY A$$ :butthead: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:

All the same? Radius arms, short arms, long arms, crossover steering, inverted Y, hyrdo steering, hydro assist: Do I need to go on? I'm tempted to ban you for the hell of it.

BigDaveZJ
07-31-2005, 02:55 PM
But some of the bantering back and forth is just that. Nothing to back up the claims. And if the claims can't be backedup, they carry no weight in my book.



Did you describe yourself on purpose??

This thread's closed. doyll, keep the tech forums tech related and stop the bantering or you won't be here for long.