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CORhino
06-03-2005, 06:01 PM
I just got back from Moab with the ZJ and I am at that delicate point where I either sell it and buy a custom rock buggy or build it into what I want it to be. I honestly love my jeep, so I am trying to go the build route. So here is where I am now:

Current setup: 4.5" Springs under BB with 35's. Custom control arms (too short by at least 1.5" or more) fender trimming but not enough, NP249 TCase (full time 4 wheel), Quadratrac, stock gears and rear driveshaft (front DS is converted to the CV style U-Jointed), D44 rear and D 3x front.

Good about current setup: TONS of droop, squat stance (nice and stable), no bumpsteer, very stable on the road, lots and lots of climbing power, excellent attack and depart angles

Sucks about current setup: 0 Uptravel (litteraly I can ALMOST flex a curb if I am turning the wheels), open difs, gearing is probably not good for the tire size

So, good ZJ folk of the board, I need help. My general though is that I need to ditch the front axle for something beefier (grenaded the CV joints day 1, trail 1, obstacle 1 - thank gawd someone in our group had the spare U-joint shafts) and possibly the rear, lock her up front and rear, go with at a minimum a Long Arm kit (although I really dig the 4-link that Kraga and some others have).

I have already had people tell me to go with the Clayton's and to go for a 60 swap in the rear and move the 44 to the front, and I know what I plan to do about the up-travel issues for the most part, but given these goals:

- maintain street driveability for the most part (not a true DD, but I do not have a tow rig yet either)
- Maintain a minimum lift required to clear the 35's
- capable of runing dificult trails, but not overly extreme (if I want to run proving grounds, I will get a rock buggy)
- I do not own a welder or plasma cutter (but can get access to both)
- I am not affraid to fabricate my own parts, and would like to in most cases so I can both learn and know how to fix it if it breaks

What are some suspension/drivetrain suggestions from folks? I have a general concept of going 60 rear 44 front long arm suspension and probably going tube fenders for the clearance issues, but I am clueless on the lockers and weather or not this is something worth tackling on my own or buying kit parts and bolting them on.

Anyway, sorry for the ramble. Flame/suggest away.

JohnBoulderCO
06-03-2005, 06:14 PM
Not sure if you saw my post under the Chit Chit thread "Sad Day: Zebra is for sale"

ROKN ZJ had a good response. He built a buggy.

Clayton's would be a good idea.
But before chopping it up, it looks like dimishing returns, leads people to buggys.

LouisianaZJ
06-03-2005, 06:30 PM
well we have discussed the D44/D60 front here alot. Most people will say to go with the 60 or get a 44 will alloy stuff

basically, you would be looking at over $3,000 to get a front end swapped in and a new rear with gears and lockers, plus like $300 to put in a junkyard 231 t-case.. assuming you do most of the work, if you want to dump that into a ZJ is up to you.

no uptravel? did you trim enough?

Kraqa
06-03-2005, 07:12 PM
buy a rock buggy.

or your ZJ will end up liek this

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v280/Kraqa/Kraq-Rock%20Buggy/DSC02946.jpg

Bustin' Loose
06-03-2005, 07:53 PM
buy a rock buggy.

or your ZJ will end up liek this

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v280/Kraqa/Kraq-Rock%20Buggy/DSC02946.jpg

And what exactly, is wrong with your ZJ looking this this?

Looking sweet Kris.

Kraqa
06-03-2005, 09:16 PM
nothing i'm just showing him the other side.....the dark side.



and thnx pam. its getting painted tonight.

Cody
06-03-2005, 10:12 PM
I would deffinately move the rear 44 to the front.

If you want to wheel without the stress of breaking things or denting things or not being able to drive the thing home, then buy a dedicated trail rig. A buggy, a pre-built ZJ, a built XJ/YJ/TJ etc. There is a kick ass ZJ for sale in here for 3k that you coudl beat the snot out of and not worry about it. sell yours and buy a tow rig.

Cody

chadjans
06-04-2005, 12:52 AM
or your ZJ will end up liek this

And what exactly, is wrong with your ZJ looking this this?

Looking sweet Kris.

None of the nodes meet up. :finga:

Bustin' Loose
06-04-2005, 01:15 AM
nothing i'm just showing him the other side.....the dark side.



and thnx pam. its getting painted tonight.

funny, when I bought my ZJ I was told that I went to the dark side. Then again, this is from my TJ friends. I guess this is the black hole to them?

ELLLLLIOTTTTT
06-06-2005, 02:37 AM
nothing i'm just showing him the other side.....the dark side.



and thnx pam. its getting painted tonight.

the jealousy is setting in of your rear pseudo-frame. :smt003

Trancezj
06-06-2005, 09:24 AM
so you're wheeling with open diffs and short arms that have zero up travel? And for some reason seem to be under the impression that your rearend can be just thrown in the front, unless I'm missing something here, I'd Hold off on the buggy. I like Codys idea of buying the rig for sale on here.... it's still on short arms though. I dunno, do what you want but I'd say long arm it and lock it. If you don't like it, do something else.

Atavist
06-18-2005, 11:26 PM
Cut it up and make a rock buggy.


You know you want to.

NorthernZJ
06-19-2005, 02:43 AM
I've got a ZJ buggy... it is really a bad idea. I'm now building a buggy to use a CJ7 hood and grill. It is also going to be mostly street legal. If you want something radical a ZJ isn't going to be it. I enjoyed building mine, but I want a custom chassis with air shocks I can drive on the street. It is pretty much going to be a CJ7 on 40s but starting from scratch with the chassis so I can make it what I want it. I want it to go real fast in the desert on 37 inch MTRs and on fire roads durring the winter. But I also want to kick ass in the rocks durring the summer and I know a chopped up ZJ isn't going to work.

I want purpose built and my ZJ chassis isn't going to cut it. But, I'm crazy about building so...

Krash80
06-24-2005, 01:16 PM
Not trying to being a dick, but it sounds like you've got a TERRIBLE setup on that rig right now. You basically have 6.5" of lift on short arms, and tires WAY too big for your stock axles...AND you don't carry your most important spare parts. I'm taking a wild guess, but i'd say you probably got caught up in the hype of building a big ZJ before fully knowing/understanding what you were getting into.

First thing you need to do is ask yourself if/why you need 35's? Are they for looks...are you really running trails that require rubber that big? I'd strongly suggest unless you NEED tires that big, that you move down to 33's or 32's, and lose at least 2" of lift, and maybe 4" if you can live with cutting your fenders a bit more. I know it sounds crazy to make your rig smaller, but it will actually be FAR more capable w/ 33's and 3" of lift than it is right now.

If going smaller than you are right now is crazytalk to you, then you need to spend some serious cash and do some serious custom work if you want to be able to acutally use those 35's. IE...3/4-1-ton custom axles and full custom longarm suspension....but i'm not kidding when i say, "serious" cash. I have over 12k$ in parts on my ZJ with a 1 ton rearend and 3/4 frontend and custom longarms, and i did ALL of the work myself with all brackets and suspension pieces made completely from scratch.

If you don't want to spend that kind of money, and don't want to run a more sensible sized tire, then lose some of that lift and hack the crap out of your fenders. I have a bone stock XJ on 35"x14.5"x15" boggers...the tires fit with no lift because the fenders are hacked to hell. Not saying this is the most ideal route, but it IS an option. However, you're still left with very weak axles trying to turn big rubber which is a bad combo.

IMO, turning a non-totalled ZJ into a rock buggy is a terrible idea. It makes sense for those who've rolled their rigs and have no other choice if they want to keep wheeling it, but to take a perfectly good full-bodied ZJ and make a buggy out of it (ie. what Kraqa did) is just goofy. The unibody is a terrible platform to build off of and you would be far better off starting with a full custom tube chassis or at least with a wrangler or a yota or something with a frame. Ask Kraqa...he'll tell you the only reason he turned his ZJ into a buggy is cause he's Canadian and doesn't know any better.

You could buy a custom rock buggy and wheel the crap out of it with few worries, but guessing from your current setup and the fact that you don't carry spare shafts with that setup, i'm guessing you'd be taking a giant leap by moving yourself into a buggy. I really think you'd be best off keeping your stock axles in your rig, getting some smaller tires, leaving your fenders alone, and losing about 4" of lift and wheeling your rig like that for a while.

sorry for the rambling and like i said before i'm sorry if i sound like an ass...i'm not trying to be, i just come off that way sometimes. :mrgreen:
-Ron-

2drezq
06-26-2005, 09:50 AM
Bone-stock ZJ's are terrific off-road rigs, compared to most other bone stock 4wd's. They are a good compromise between road worthiness, snow-mobility, dirt trail, and rocky hillside climbing. They do everything prettty well without excelling at any one thing. Modifying Grand Cherokees (it seems to me) is all about emphasizing one of your Jeep's strengths that matters more to you than the other characteristics of the vehicle (usually at a cost in some other area.)
THERE IS A LIMIT! Serious rock crawling so far exceeds the basic design (unibody) that ZJ rock rigs remind me of the old story of the claw hammer that has been in the family for 6 generations; we've had to replace the handle six times and the head twice.

Cut your lift down, buy smaller tires, keep the jeep as a DD/mild off-roader, build a buggy from scratch.

Has anybody ever thought of mounting a small turbo-jet on a rock buggy to provide lift & keep it from rolling over backwards?

ROKN ZJ
06-26-2005, 02:02 PM
If you really want to build your ZJ I'd agree with others in that the minimum you need is 60 rear, 44 front (with beefy shafts, or a 60 front), long arms (either make your own or go with Clayton or whatever), and around 6-7" of lift. But you better be sure you NEVER want to to advance or you'll be a lot of $$$ in and wanting to spend more. Like Krash said I would never recomend chopping a decent ZJ into a buggy, and I don't think you need a custom built buggy.

I'd recommend just buying a used built up ZJ. It should be cheaper in the long run. Cody would probably sell you his if you asked nicely, and I think his would be a great choice for anyone who has the Zjbuggy bug, or there's the chalupa, or... I'd just recomend buying a built up one first before spending money on building yours. Trust me when I say it'll be cheaper in the long run.

For example lets say you can buy Cody's for $8000, and you can sell yours for $6000 you'll be out $2000. Wheras if you build your up you'll be out more than $2000 without adding much velue to your rig. Now if you were to chop up your buggy and make it look just like cody's you'd be out even more money, your rig would be worth less than it was when you started, and you wouldn't have an atlas. Of course I don't know what Cody's rig is worth nor what your's is worth I'm just making an example.

EDIT: I just noticed your ZJ is a 98 so it's probably worth more than I thought. So this is just more of a reason to sell it and buy a built up ZJ with what you get for it. Hopefully your fender trimming isn't too extreme that your vehicle will still be sellable to regular joe-high-school-kid who wants a "pimp looking badass mudder"

Of course the only problem with my suggestion is that you don't have the feeling of building something up yourself. It's up to you to decide if it's worth it, but I'd definitly run the numbers before you make a decision.

yardape52
06-26-2005, 08:29 PM
This whole thread gets my dander up. I'll accuse the off-road industry of its unethical practices here. Performance vehicles have always captured the hearts and minds of young men. While being an educated consumer is the responsibility of the buyer, the purveyors of off-road equipment do very little to educate their customers. Considering that one can do considerable damage to a vehilce with the addition of lift (or low rider) parts if one isn't aware of all of the pitfalls, I find it quite unethical that these companies will sell these kits to unwitting young and impressionable customers. Most of the young people who buy and install this equipment are the least equipped to afford paying for their uninformed buying decisions.

Sorry for the rant,.... its just the way I feel.

ELLLLLIOTTTTT
06-28-2005, 09:20 PM
This whole thread gets my dander up. I'll accuse the off-road industry of its unethical practices here. Performance vehicles have always captured the hearts and minds of young men. While being an educated consumer is the responsibility of the buyer, the purveyors of off-road equipment do very little to educate their customers. Considering that one can do considerable damage to a vehilce with the addition of lift (or low rider) parts if one isn't aware of all of the pitfalls, I find it quite unethical that these companies will sell these kits to unwitting young and impressionable customers. Most of the young people who buy and install this equipment are the least equipped to afford paying for their uninformed buying decisions.

Sorry for the rant,.... its just the way I feel.

whats that got to do with anything?