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View Full Version : Thermostats.. 180 degree = bad?



Jim311
05-16-2005, 10:22 PM
A friend of mine teaches ASE certification at my college. I bought a new thermostat from Kolak, and the one that he sold me is 180 degree. My friend says this:


Unless you are planning on reprogramming the ECM(engine control module) I would get the 180 thermo out of there. The computer isn't designed for a 180 tstat, it wants a 195. It could cause driveability issues and excessive fuel consumption. So I have been taught in various manufacturer and afttermarket training classes. Althought during the summer I don't think it will be a big issue in the summer, in the winter it could be a problem.


I'm wondering if any of you are running a 180 degree thermostat in your Jeeps (mine is the 5.2 if it matters) and I'm wondering if you noticed excessive fuel consumption or poor warmup times in the winter or anything negative. I didn't think to specify what type of thermostat I wanted when I ordered from Kolak, so I got what he gave me basically. It gets hot down here, so lower running temperatures are definitely desireable. What say you guys?

Jeepinparrothead
05-16-2005, 10:33 PM
yes I experienced all of that. Then I traded for a mopar OE. Woks much better. :rock:

Jim311
05-16-2005, 10:47 PM
Kolak has this to say:



We've been using/selling 180 degree thermostats for years and years, and they are very commonly used by many other vendors on Jeeps and Dodges. A 180 degree opening temperature is adeuquately hot for the PCM to go into closed loop operation. You will not have any drivability, emissions, or fuel economy issues whatsoever, regardless of outside temperature. We lower the opening point a bit to 180 degrees to reduce radiated engine compartment heat. This results in slightly colder air inlet temperatures. Colder air is denser air, so this increases power and reduces the chance of detonation.

dasVettemeister
05-17-2005, 12:05 AM
Mine runs fine with the 280. Of ourse I live in AZ. :finga:

Jim311
05-17-2005, 12:18 AM
Mine runs fine with the 280. Of ourse I live in AZ. :finga:


280?! :weedman:




It's not exactly cold here either. Maybe I'll be alright :partyman:

Nordic1
05-17-2005, 12:38 AM
Technically you will consume more fuel because the motor stays colder... but I don't really think 15* will change anything

dasVettemeister
05-17-2005, 03:52 AM
Mine runs fine with the 280. Of ourse I live in AZ. :finga:


280?! :weedman:




It's not exactly cold here either. Maybe I'll be alright :partyman:


Hehehe!!!! 280......bah!!! You know what I meant...... it's been a loooooooong day..... :finga:

OverkillZJ
05-17-2005, 08:27 AM
Tell your friend to stick his broad knowledge of "All" vehicles and let us stick to the specific grand tech.

180 is fine.

nate
05-17-2005, 02:00 PM
Closed loop goes into effect once the engine hits ~160*. Now the engine temp is calculated into the A/F mixture, timing, etc so colder means it will try to richen the mixture up to get the engine closer to temp... It should be running at ~200-210.

Your friend knows what he's talking about.

TrojanMan
05-17-2005, 02:47 PM
my 180 works perfectly.

OverkillZJ
05-17-2005, 03:40 PM
Closed loop goes into effect once the engine hits ~160*. Now the engine temp is calculated into the A/F mixture, timing, etc so colder means it will try to richen the mixture up to get the engine closer to temp... It should be running at ~200-210.

Your friend knows what he's talking about.

In theory, yes. What his friend doesn't know is that ZJ's inherently run hotter than DC intended them to. 180 stat compensates for this poor system rather well, especially considering the bull bars, winches and lights that we often have blocking our radiators.

I get 14-29 MPG depending how well I drive between the modified cooling system, intake, exhaust, and new sensors.

Jim311
05-17-2005, 05:36 PM
Tell your friend to stick his broad knowledge of "All" vehicles and let us stick to the specific grand tech.

180 is fine.


When it comes down to it, he teaches ASE certification, and I doubt you do.




Regardless, it's such a simple thing to change out that I'm just going to run it and see how it does.

LouisianaZJ
05-17-2005, 06:04 PM
basically ill sum it up right here

IT DOES NOT MAKE A HELL OF ALOT OF DIFFERENCE EITHER WAY

180*, 190*, 195* whatever, its going to be the same thing the 15* is not going to seize up your engine or drop you down to 6mpg

I'm running a 180* Stant on my 4.0, works just fine

im sure if you were in antartica or something you would make it warm up slower after 180* but your in FL

OverkillZJ
05-17-2005, 07:11 PM
Tell your friend to stick his broad knowledge of "All" vehicles and let us stick to the specific grand tech.

180 is fine.


When it comes down to it, he teaches ASE certification, and I doubt you do.




Regardless, it's such a simple thing to change out that I'm just going to run it and see how it does.

Wow Jim, you're a fucking rocket scientist today!

If you read what I wrote without thinking like a jackass, maybe you'll understand that I was saying he understands theory and has a much broader knowledge of many many types of vehicles. He's probably very good at what he does too. But how many ZJ's has he owned or fixed the cooling system on?

Many of us here know ZJ's, and, well, that's it. But we have a hell of a lot more experience with them than he probably ever will.

Have a nice day.

Jim311
05-17-2005, 08:45 PM
Tell your friend to stick his broad knowledge of "All" vehicles and let us stick to the specific grand tech.

180 is fine.


When it comes down to it, he teaches ASE certification, and I doubt you do.




Regardless, it's such a simple thing to change out that I'm just going to run it and see how it does.

Wow Jim, you're a fucking rocket scientist today!

If you read what I wrote without thinking like a jackass, maybe you'll understand that I was saying he understands theory and has a much broader knowledge of many many types of vehicles. He's probably very good at what he does too. But how many ZJ's has he owned or fixed the cooling system on?

Many of us here know ZJ's, and, well, that's it. But we have a hell of a lot more experience with them than he probably ever will.

Have a nice day.

He worked at a Chrysler dealership on countless Grand Cherokees before he ever became an instructor. I'll assume he's fixed his fair share of them.

LouisianaZJ
05-17-2005, 08:50 PM
just put in a 195* in , give your BF at the stealership a BJ ,and be done with it

Jim311
05-17-2005, 09:00 PM
just put in a 195* in , give your BF at the stealership a BJ ,and be done with it


Eat my ass.

LouisianaZJ
05-17-2005, 09:56 PM
no thanks :butthead:

Jim311
05-17-2005, 10:22 PM
no thanks :butthead:

:flipoff2:

TrojanMan
05-17-2005, 10:59 PM
BTW wouldn't it heat up just as fast as a 195? I mean it would basically be the same thermostat until 180*

Also opening at 180* doesn't mean it keeps it at 180*, it will still go above.. so it will get close to that perfect number that ASE dude is jizzing over.

OverkillZJ
05-17-2005, 11:08 PM
BTW wouldn't it heat up just as fast as a 195? I mean it would basically be the same thermostat until 180*

Also opening at 180* doesn't mean it keeps it at 180*, it will still go above.. so it will get close to that perfect number that ASE dude is jizzing over.

Bingo.

and Jim: eat trojans ass.

Jeepinparrothead
05-17-2005, 11:22 PM
I still hated it.......maybe I didn't know what I was talking about......why am I still up.......

TrojanMan
05-17-2005, 11:25 PM
and Jim: eat trojans ass.

hahaha what a great image.

btw thanks for the sig.. the first time I didn't say something to piss you off :partyman:

Jim311
05-17-2005, 11:25 PM
BTW wouldn't it heat up just as fast as a 195? I mean it would basically be the same thermostat until 180*

Also opening at 180* doesn't mean it keeps it at 180*, it will still go above.. so it will get close to that perfect number that ASE dude is jizzing over.

Only if it's running hot, and mine rarely ever does unless I'm wheeling with the AC on and it's hot as fuck outside.

Jim311
05-17-2005, 11:26 PM
BTW wouldn't it heat up just as fast as a 195? I mean it would basically be the same thermostat until 180*

Also opening at 180* doesn't mean it keeps it at 180*, it will still go above.. so it will get close to that perfect number that ASE dude is jizzing over.

Bingo.

and Jim: eat trojans ass.


I bet you'd watch! :gayflag:

TrojanMan
05-17-2005, 11:28 PM
BTW wouldn't it heat up just as fast as a 195? I mean it would basically be the same thermostat until 180*

Also opening at 180* doesn't mean it keeps it at 180*, it will still go above.. so it will get close to that perfect number that ASE dude is jizzing over.

Only if it's running hot, and mine rarely ever does unless I'm wheeling with the AC on and it's hot as fuck outside.

I run a 180*.. without AC on, cruising the highway or whatever.. just driving normal, my temp would rise to somewhere just under 200 I think.. its been a month since the jeep has been running so I couldn't tell you exactly, but until you find a coolant with 100% efficiency the temp will always rise above the thermostat's rating.

Swamp boy
05-18-2005, 12:25 AM
Well.. SInce we are all discussing what we have... I took my thermostat out and threw it down the fucking road one day because I kept over heating.. I have a temp sensor on my fan that comes on at 180 and my rig runs 200 degrees all day long on highway... But when I am on the trail I can be in 4 low and climbing the worlds biggest hill the damn thing runs cooler ...

What the fuck is that about... :rolleyes:

I changed my lower radiator hose because I thought that it might be collapsing at high speeds .. I changed the water pump because I thought it was cavatating (sp) And Still couldnt keep this rat bastard under 200..

So... One day I decided to cut some frickin vents in my hood and I put a thermostat back in it and it runs straight up at 190 ...


I dont think the radiant heat under the hood was causing all my problems but what ever they where they went away....

Go figure..... :smt003


And if anyone read all of that I owe you a donut and 2 minutes of your life back...
Post up your address and I will get those donuts and "2 minute back" vouchers in the mail.... :finga:

danzay
05-18-2005, 02:04 AM
Since we are discussing overheating, maybe I can get some help my 4.0 it runs at 210 all the time and when climbing or highway speeds it steadly gets hotter unless I turn the heater on. Do you think this could be caused by the top of my fan shroud missing or would it take more then that to cause the overheating? If im not mistaken I put a 180 degree thermo in it to help but it doesn't I also flushed the system. I have been seriously thinking on getting a new radiator that is all metal instead of the plastic. Let me know what you think. thanks Dan

LouisianaZJ
05-18-2005, 02:34 AM
my 4.0 runs at about 210* all day

nate
05-18-2005, 05:04 AM
Yeah that's true as well. I ran a 180* for a while, in the summer it was fine, but winter came around and I was getting crappy heat, had to run the heater on high all the time. 195 back in, and warm like an oven... Weird just 15* would do that.




Closed loop goes into effect once the engine hits ~160*. Now the engine temp is calculated into the A/F mixture, timing, etc so colder means it will try to richen the mixture up to get the engine closer to temp... It should be running at ~200-210.

Your friend knows what he's talking about.

In theory, yes. What his friend doesn't know is that ZJ's inherently run hotter than DC intended them to. 180 stat compensates for this poor system rather well, especially considering the bull bars, winches and lights that we often have blocking our radiators.

I get 14-29 MPG depending how well I drive between the modified cooling system, intake, exhaust, and new sensors.

dasVettemeister
05-18-2005, 05:19 AM
Closed loop goes into effect once the engine hits ~160*. Now the engine temp is calculated into the A/F mixture, timing, etc so colder means it will try to richen the mixture up to get the engine closer to temp... It should be running at ~200-210.

Your friend knows what he's talking about.

In theory, yes. What his friend doesn't know is that ZJ's inherently run hotter than DC intended them to. 180 stat compensates for this poor system rather well, especially considering the bull bars, winches and lights that we often have blocking our radiators.

I get 14-29 MPG depending how well I drive between the modified cooling system, intake, exhaust, and new sensors.


Dude, if you TRULY get 29 mpg with the grand.......



......Ron says he'll suck your dick. :finga:

OverkillZJ
05-18-2005, 06:28 AM
Closed loop goes into effect once the engine hits ~160*. Now the engine temp is calculated into the A/F mixture, timing, etc so colder means it will try to richen the mixture up to get the engine closer to temp... It should be running at ~200-210.

Your friend knows what he's talking about.

In theory, yes. What his friend doesn't know is that ZJ's inherently run hotter than DC intended them to. 180 stat compensates for this poor system rather well, especially considering the bull bars, winches and lights that we often have blocking our radiators.

I get 14-29 MPG depending how well I drive between the modified cooling system, intake, exhaust, and new sensors.


Dude, if you TRULY get 29 mpg with the grand.......



......Ron says he'll suck your dick. :finga:

Typo, was supposed to be "20" and that's if I granny it :)

Nate..... I never woulda tried a 180 in ALASKA!

Jim311
05-18-2005, 07:21 AM
Well.. SInce we are all discussing what we have... I took my thermostat out and threw it down the fucking road one day because I kept over heating.. I have a temp sensor on my fan that comes on at 180 and my rig runs 200 degrees all day long on highway... But when I am on the trail I can be in 4 low and climbing the worlds biggest hill the damn thing runs cooler ...

What the fuck is that about... :rolleyes:

I changed my lower radiator hose because I thought that it might be collapsing at high speeds .. I changed the water pump because I thought it was cavatating (sp) And Still couldnt keep this rat bastard under 200..

So... One day I decided to cut some frickin vents in my hood and I put a thermostat back in it and it runs straight up at 190 ...


I dont think the radiant heat under the hood was causing all my problems but what ever they where they went away....

Go figure..... :smt003


And if anyone read all of that I owe you a donut and 2 minutes of your life back...
Post up your address and I will get those donuts and "2 minute back" vouchers in the mail.... :finga:

I'm considering some hood vents now that my hood is off. Between the black paint and hot Florida summers it gets HOT under that hood.

Swamp boy
05-18-2005, 08:37 AM
It really did lower my under hood temperatures considerably..

Not engine temp. .....Under hood temp...My engine temp has dropped like I said but you can definatly tell the difference when you raise the hood...


I used Lumina Z34 vents . I like them better than the LeBaron Vents everybody else uses...

http://www.z34store.com/z3433.jpg

forexfour
05-18-2005, 11:52 AM
This is a good read since I am having over heating issues while towing. I run at about 245*, then a hill comes and I am turning the heater on.

One thing I did not see mentioned here is anything about the Tranny fluid being cooled through the radiator and not a tranny cooler in front of the radiator. Atleast this is how mine is cooled.

I have researched to adding a tranny cooler in series with the radiator and this should run it cooler.

Also the talk of a 180 degree came up and seems it is better to keep the 195 in as the 180 will tend to keep an open thermo stat to long not allowing the fluid to cool properly before it returns to the engine. Creating an inefficiently running engine.

:smt003

OverkillZJ
05-18-2005, 02:15 PM
Also the talk of a 180 degree came up and seems it is better to keep the 195 in as the 180 will tend to keep an open thermo stat to long not allowing the fluid to cool properly before it returns to the engine. Creating an inefficiently running engine.

:smt003

:axe:

forexfour
05-18-2005, 03:13 PM
So I guess I wont get the expert ZJ ruling on this statment,

Prolly just to many bugs from all the trips in the radiator keeping it from cooling right?

:weedman:

Jim311
05-18-2005, 05:35 PM
Your tranny cooler should be located in front of the radiator...

Swamp boy
05-18-2005, 09:28 PM
IF you have a factory tow package you should have the high pressure line running into the bottom of the radiator on the passenger side and then the top line should run out to a cooler in front of the radiator and then back to the tranny..

I know a few guys who have ran a second one on the other side ..

Check your clutch to make sure its working..(Fan clutch that is..)
Also if you ride in mudd.. Check the area between the ac condensor and the radiator... Mine used to get packed with mudd in there..

Carl

forexfour
05-19-2005, 10:11 AM
Thanks for the input, I do have the factory setup but I did not know there was also a cooler in front. I will check. I also will prolly change the fan clutch as I heard it also could be the problem.

I think I may just by pass the radiator totally

TrojanMan
05-19-2005, 11:01 AM
Thanks for the input, I do have the factory setup but I did not know there was also a cooler in front. I will check. I also will prolly change the fan clutch as I heard it also could be the problem.

I think I may just by pass the radiator totally

If I remember right, its on the driver's side of the radio. You can go to a junkyard and get another of the same tranny coolers, it will mount up the same way as the other one, only on the passenger side. Then you just have to run the lines.