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mtnzj
05-10-2005, 05:00 PM
I've been doing a lot of research online about getting new axles. The turdy30 and fake44 aren’t gonna cut it especially locked (n/a on 44). I was originally thinking of doing the (now common) hp30/8.8 swap, but its still a 30 in front...I want something that will last so I think a good set up would be a d44/9" combo out of a EB or F150 (late 70's disk break years). 9" I like for being a full floater with removable 3rd member and is plenty strong. The d44s are drivers drop and are stronger than turdy30s, plus TONS of aftermarket. Plus both axles have same bolt pattern (5 on 5.5").

The EBs are nice because of narrow width, but have 260 ujoins in the LP44 and 28 spline 9" shafts

The F150s have HP44 with 297 Ujoints and 31 spline (I think) 9" shafts, but they are quite wide (65"-67" WMS depending on where you get the info)

What do you guys think? :partyman:
TIA

PS: any other combinations of axles/comments graciously accepted
Correct me on any wrong info too, internet isnt always most reliable source of info...

LouisianaZJ
05-10-2005, 06:22 PM
do the f150 probably

you can get one with d44 radius arms and extend them to make some long radius arms for your suspension. this is the cheapest route casue the necessary brackets for the 5 link are hella expensive unless you fabricate

WMS
just get wheels with like 4.5" BS or something

even tho they have 31 spline 297's you should probably be upgrading to alloy shafts

your probably looking at close to 5k when its all said and done

gears wheel steering d-shaft work brackets lockers hubs donor axles etc etc

edit:
i plan on running 35's on a hp30 w/alloys and a iron d44, locked f/r

MaineZJ
05-10-2005, 08:48 PM
8.8s are basically a metric 9.

if you are really concerned about breakage - go dual 60s

Michael
05-10-2005, 09:31 PM
do 9" shafts break?

XJ Matt
05-10-2005, 09:42 PM
8.8s are basically a metric 9.


huh?

8.8 and 9'' arent even close to being similar.

Troy
05-10-2005, 10:01 PM
I love my 9" rear, never broken anything on it yet but I'll try again this weekend. My front HP44 has busted u-joints and hubs more times than not. I've upgraded to 4340 shafts and CTMs so we'll see what breaks now. If I had to do it all over again I would have to go with Rockwells :smt023

LouisianaZJ
05-10-2005, 10:04 PM
I If I had to do it all over again I would have to go with Rockwells :smt023 :weedman: :mrgreen: :weedman: :smt003

Nordic1
05-10-2005, 10:36 PM
8.8s are basically a metric 9.


huh?

8.8 and 9'' arent even close to being similar.


Yea they are... The 8.8 is basicly the new 9"

Duh on the housings and etc being different but the 8.8 was FORD's new production axle to replace the 9"

chopshop
05-10-2005, 10:40 PM
i'd like to see a pic of the 9" full floater.

mtnzj
05-11-2005, 12:01 AM
i'd like to see a pic of the 9" full floater.
found out from a guy on colorado4x4 that the EB/F150 9" are semi floaters...still strong though
The 8.8 did replace the 9" but the 9" is still a stronger axle...

if you are really concerned about breakage - go dual 60s
front 60's out here are hard to come by and hella expensive

The 8.8 is a good axle, but I don't want another 30 up front and you can't find a strong front axle with 5 on 4.5" without doing custom work.

anyone know the exact width of the F150's, havnt found an exact number yet.....seems from the responses that I have gotten on two forums that the F150s would be a better swap

more help/ conversation is appretiated. :drinkers: [/quote]

Kraqa
05-11-2005, 12:01 AM
well fist of all ford 9" are semi float not full float.

alot came with 31 spline shafts and a disk break swap would cost you $100. zik front rotors $30 nissan rear calipers (they have the ebrake) $30 new pads and then soem brakets out of 3/8" plat ewhich i have the template for.

the d44 front end is alright. just be wary of the none 78-79 years they have 3/8" tubes with cast in (cast iron radius arm mounts and then they have 1/4" outer tubes. shitty. you can use em but you can get rid of the cast in mounts.

LouisianaZJ
05-11-2005, 12:09 AM
5 lug f150s are 65"
8 lugs are 67"

if you decide to go 8 lug
14b are cheap and essentially bombproof

really a 60 front is not outrageouly more after you consider you probably could manage w/o alloy shafts

$200 D44 + $600 roughly in alloys = $800
D60 front $1000 - $1300


btw, check out the fs forum, just buy RT's rig for $11, sell your pos on JU for 4k and be done with it :supz:
http://mallcrawlin.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2063
http://mikesjeeping.com/albums/4x4-AZ-Woodpecker-H2H-Apr-05/W_H2H_Apr_050012.sized.jpg

Krash80
05-11-2005, 01:18 AM
$200 D44 + $600 roughly in alloys = $800



HA HA HA HAH hahahah! 800$ my ass....i have probably 2500$ in my front 44. Yes, i should've done a 60, but this 44 was free when i got it and i was all hyped on building my free axle...what a joke that was...live and learn i guess.
My axle has a little extra cost than most though because it's narrowed to waggy width down from F250 width, but a lot of people also buy brackets whereas i made all my own, so maybe it evens out.

it ain't like you're gonna get a boneyard 44 and toss some alloy shafts in it and be done for 800$. I don't know about you, but any boneyard axle i pick up gets completely stripped and gets all new bearings, gears, balljoints, seals, hubs, rotors, calipers/pads, u-joints....then add in the cost of welding supplies (ie. rods/wire/gas), cutting/machining tools and supplies, crap like RTV sealant, diff fluid, etc etc and the crap adds to a rediculous amount before you even get your letters from the bank stating that you OD'd your checking account.

With my 14b/44 combo, i seriously have around 4000$ invested in just axle stuff, and my 14b was purchased for 150$ and my F250 44 was free.

Now that i think about it, i have over 10,000$ of "upgrades" added onto a vehicle with a blue book value equal to that of my lawnmower...wow... i have a serious mental condition.

LouisianaZJ
05-11-2005, 01:21 AM
i was talking base prices for the housings and shafts man :weedman: i know that does not include all the other junk, like i said in teh first post were i told him like 5k for both f/r :mrgreen:

ELLLLLIOTTTTT
05-11-2005, 01:42 AM
what size tire do you plan to run with those big ol' axles? a HP30 and 8.8 should have NO problem turning those 32's and can be built for significantly less $. I went that route because this is my DD and will probably not see anything over 35's at least for the next 3 years.

mtnzj
05-11-2005, 02:43 AM
what size tire do you plan to run with those big ol' axles? a HP30 and 8.8 should have NO problem turning those 32's and can be built for significantly less $. I went that route because this is my DD and will probably not see anything over 35's at least for the next 3 years.

I've been getting the "itch" real bad lately after only 10 months on my current set up. It wouldnt be out of the question if I was on 35's and long arms in a year. Though I doubt I will go any bigger with a ZJ that 35s. The main thing that has made me lean more toward larger axles is that I want to have some confidence about what is under my rig. A turdy30 doesn't inspire confidence.... From what I've read it seems that the larger axle combo will be a lot of work, but it should be plenty strong enough for what I want, whereas the hp30/8.8 is good but not that inherintly strong.
This is still up for debate though...I may be swayed either way given enough support.

some basics I forgot in origional post: Daily driver, want locked f/r, 4.56 RP

LouisianaZJ
05-11-2005, 02:51 AM
http://mallcrawlin.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=461

trailzj
05-11-2005, 03:48 AM
Yea they are... The 8.8 is basicly the new 9"

Duh on the housings and etc being different but the 8.8 was FORD's new production axle to replace the 9"

They are very different. Let me elaborate more on "housing and etc." The 9" has a third member(nodulars easy to find), ring gear is thicker and a bit larger, more aftermarket upgrades and usually less expensive, the housing is easier to shave and build four links on, the lug pattern matches many dana 44's, and it doesn't have c-clip axles like the 8.8.
The 8.8's pinion isn't as low as the 9" which is good for driveline clearence, having the 5 on 4.5 lug pattern is good if the dana 30 suites your tire size and driving styles, and the 8.8s are easy to find with discs.

I only see them as basicly the same if their bone stock under a stock vehicle.

Al

Cody
05-11-2005, 03:55 AM
The d44s are drivers drop and are stronger than turdy30s, plus TONS of aftermarket.



Yup, you've done your research......44 are so much stronger......you know why there is so much aftermarket? Because people have been breaking the P'sOS for 40 years and people have tried polishing them for 40 years with little success.

Remember, you can put the same shafts in the 30 as you can the 44. Unless youre breaking housings or stripping ring gears, the 44 is the same turd as the 30--just wider and heavier.

It's a waste of money bud--learn from my experience. I have 15 broken 44 axle shafts, like 7 or 8 joints, and at least a dozen obliterated hubs from the past 16 months to show just how strong the 44 is. The cost of broken parts alone is probably close to 500-600 bucks, then you add on the cost of the alloy shafts I just bought that "might" hold together.....I could have had a 60 under my rig and saved money over the past year----but I guess thats not fair cause if I would have put a 60 under it in the first place I would have missed out on all those countless hours under the jeep on the trail and in my driveway in the snow changing out broken 44 parts. Ohh how I cherish those memories. They warm my heart--really they do.


But I'll help you with your research. Answer this question....


How many grand cherokee (or similar) owners are there that have swapped in a 44 and are happy with their choice?

(btw, this excludes those that had dynatrac 44's built)




























keep searching--the answer is out there under you nose















































any luck yet?













































well, I'll give you the answer





















































Answer: 0


I guess the moral of my story is that you should throw some of those EVO shafts in the 30, buy 15 cases of beer, and put the remaining 250 bucks that it would have cost you to swap in the indestructable 44 and drive out to Moab and wheel it.

Also...who has broken the Aluminum 44? You can spool it now, and you can get gears for it.....whats the problem?

Cody

mtnzj
05-11-2005, 04:33 AM
The d44s are drivers drop and are stronger than turdy30s, plus TONS of aftermarket.


Yup, you've done your research......44 are so much stronger......you know why there is so much aftermarket? Because people have been breaking the P'sOS for 40 years and people have tried polishing them for 40 years with little success.

Remember, you can put the same shafts in the 30 as you can the 44. Unless youre breaking housings or stripping ring gears, the 44 is the same turd as the 30--just wider and heavier.

It's a waste of money bud--learn from my experience. I have 15 broken 44 axle shafts, like 7 or 8 joints, and at least a dozen obliterated hubs from the past 16 months to show just how strong the 44 is. The cost of broken parts alone is probably close to 500-600 bucks, then you add on the cost of the alloy shafts I just bought that "might" hold together.....I could have had a 60 under my rig and saved money over the past year----but I guess thats not fair cause if I would have put a 60 under it in the first place I would have missed out on all those countless hours under the jeep on the trail and in my driveway in the snow changing out broken 44 parts. Ohh how I cherish those memories. They warm my heart--really they do.

How many grand cherokee (or similar) owners are there that have swapped in a 44 and are happy with their choice?
(btw, this excludes those that had dynatrac 44's built)
Answer: 0
I guess the moral of my story is that you should throw some of those EVO shafts in the 30, buy 15 cases of beer, and put the remaining 250 bucks that it would have cost you to swap in the indestructable 44 and drive out to Moab and wheel it.

Also...who has broken the Aluminum 44? You can spool it now, and you can get gears for it.....whats the problem?
Cody
I ask a perfectly good question and ask for some help and you go and be a jackass :overkill:

the info online is sparse and thats about all Im going on. I never said or implied that the d44 is an axle of the gods, but it is still stronger than a d30. plus you can get flat top knuckles, thicker tubes, etc.

And YES I do know someone who is happy with their front d44, Mack(aka tenmile) is happy with his waggy 44 front. Hes on his 4th or 5th grand...

I'm gonna be swaping out both axles regardless, whether it be a hp30/8.8 or hp44/9" combo. There is no way I'm daily driving a spooled rear, especially in the al44 which until recently no one has modified a spool to put in. I understand that the 44 is gonna have some week parts(compared to a 60) and that people do break shit on em, but like I said before, if I'm swaping the axles anyway why not go a bit bigger?

Troy
05-11-2005, 07:00 AM
The d44s are drivers drop and are stronger than turdy30s, plus TONS of aftermarket.



I guess the moral of my story is that you should throw some of those EVO shafts in the 30, buy 15 cases of beer, and put the remaining 250 bucks that it would have cost you to swap in the indestructable 44 and drive out to Moab and wheel it.

Also...who has broken the Aluminum 44? You can spool it now, and you can get gears for it.....whats the problem?

Cody

He's not being a smart ass, just trying to prove his point that he's NOT happy with his 44 and he's trying to prevent others from making foolhardy decisions.

FWIW I can remember beginning to build the long arm version of my rig and planning for 36" tries. By the time I was done I was running 38's. Be safe and build bigger than you think you need - especially if you've just gotten into wheeling your rig and plan on dumping money into upgraded axles.

FinlayZJ
05-11-2005, 09:34 AM
I bought a 44 and 9" out of a 79 bronco to do that swap on my old ZJ. I ended up trading the ZJ in and selling the axles for what I had in them. Knowing what I do know, if I had to go back and do it again, I'd go right to a 60 front, or shell out the cash for a 60/9" hybrid.

Sit down and add up all the crap the 44 needs. Especially if you go alloy shafts. Figure in initial cost, alloys, rebuilt kits, etc. Then look at how close you are to D60 costs. If I ever upgrade the Newbicon, i'll go right to 60's. Locked 44 front is no better than a locked 30 front. For the majority of the people, the shafts are the first to go.

LouisianaZJ
05-11-2005, 10:32 AM
The d44s are drivers drop and are stronger than turdy30s, plus TONS of aftermarket.


Yup, you've done your research......44 are so much stronger......you know why there is so much aftermarket? Because people have been .....
Cody
I ask a perfectly good question and ask for some help and you go and be a jackass :overkill:



please return to JU immediately :toimonst:

OverkillZJ
05-11-2005, 10:36 AM
For the majority of the people, the shafts are the first to go.

Holes in the ears on the shafts wallow out where the ujoints are, caps start spinning, cap gets thrown and then BOOM ujoint breaks taking out both shaft halves. Story of my front axles life.

BigDaveZJ
05-11-2005, 10:48 AM
I ask a perfectly good question and ask for some help and you go and be a jackass :overkill:


You need some thicker skin if you think Cody's being a jackass. I think I can safely say nobody in a ZJ with a 44 front has anywhere near the trail time that Cody has (except maybe Sandy) and he would be the one to know whether or not its a worthwhile swap. Not to diss on Mack at all here, but how many trails has he seen with his 44? Not nearly what Cody has. Yeah, the 44, is a decent axle, but NOWHERE near what a 60, and the 44 is BARELY an upgrade from a 30.

Keep your 30, or get a 60. Don't bother with a 44. And if you're running 33's to 35's, a 30/44A or 30/8.8 combo will suit you just fine.

bburgi
05-11-2005, 11:07 AM
Ahh, Dave- always the voice of reason.
:smt056

Cody
05-11-2005, 12:22 PM
People just don't like it when the truth is told and it isn't something they want to agree with.




Yeah, the 44, is a decent axle, but NOWHERE near what a 60, and the 44 is BARELY an upgrade from a 30.

This is my point. Barely an upgrade from the 30. If you're breaking the shafts/joints on a 30--guess what---you'd break them just the same on a 44 and thats just fact. The shafts are not stronger unless you spend the money to make them so--and in that case you just spent the kind of money it would have cost to put an axle that you will never have to worry about it.




Keep your 30, or get a 60. Don't bother with a 44. And if you're running 33's to 35's, a 30/44A or 30/8.8 combo will suit you just fine.

exactly. If you don't want the oppinions of people who have already made the mistake, then don't fuckin ask for them sport. Do you want me to tell you about 8" lifts too?


But I'll do you a favor. I'll sell you my built hp44. 5 lug, Yukon/warn shafts, bobby long treated joints, 4.10's, lockright, super beefy tie rod flipped over the knuckle, etc etc. Already set up for ZJ coils and shocks--just add radius arms. Out of 78 bronco.

$900

I"d love to have someone bail me out of my bad decision.

Cody

MaineZJ
05-11-2005, 01:14 PM
yup, people are always snapping 8.8 shafts, and the fucking c-clips shear when you look at em.
Can't count the breakages written on PBB about em.

:finga:


Waggy front 44
8.8 rear with BP adapters.

FinlayZJ
05-11-2005, 02:11 PM
Waggy front 44
8.8 rear with BP adapters.


[comic book guy]Worst axle combo ever.[/comic book guy]

Paging ATL ZJ :finga:

Cody
05-11-2005, 04:31 PM
8.8s are basically a metric 9.


huh?

8.8 and 9'' arent even close to being similar.


Yea they are... The 8.8 is basicly the new 9"

Duh on the housings and etc being different but the 8.8 was FORD's new production axle to replace the 9"

First of all, whats metric about a 9"? What is similar between the 8.8 and the 9"?

Second, sine the 8.8 is basically the 'new' 9" can't we also use the same logic and say the d35 is the new d44 since it replaced the rear 44 in cherokees? There for there is no 'real' differnce between a d35 since they are basically the same thing--so why are people swapping out the 35?

Hey, Liberties are the 'new' cherokees. So they are basically the same too......

Thats awesome logic! It can work for so many things! :smt002

Cody <resident asshole

msvance
05-11-2005, 09:51 PM
I have ~500 in my '79 f150 d44 w/ 4.10's and a lockright which included the radius arms, and dom tube for trac-bar, drag link and tie rod. i think it was a good investment and there is no way i would have spent the money on swapping in a d60 in my ZJ (that's what the CJ is for :smt002 ). also, i welded my al44 for nothing. it's also my dd and the welded rear doesn't cause any negative issues.

if you want/need '60's then save your money and buy a beater or build a tube rig.........................

just my 2c

oh yeah, i've seen d30 ring gears shatter, so you might be able to get similar shafts in a 30 but there are still other improved parts in a d44 with little extra cost.

trailzj
05-12-2005, 12:57 AM
What tire size you running Cody?

Al

Kraqa
05-12-2005, 09:09 AM
Cody is running 37's.

The ford 9" is a better axle IMHO then the 8.8. third pinion gear weldable housng. you can shave it in 15 min. and its cheep i bought two 31 splin big bearing housings one third member with 4.10 gears and a posi and 4 shafts for $50. the 8.8's around here are going fo at least 250-500 and that woudl be a good deal. The only logical reason to do a d44 is if you've blown up your rear more time then you can count and you want somthing strongger and the 44 is just to match the front. It really depends on the wheelin you do. i have lots of buddy's in full size chevy's with 350ci engins on 40's not had a problem with there 44 fronts. but they spend most of there time in the mud and dirt trails. if they were to drive out in moab on the rocks then that axle woudl last abotu as long as it would take to lock your hubs.

Pearce
05-12-2005, 12:14 PM
Tim has a 44 under his. Before he chopped it he broke the stock shafts to pieces. Then upgraded to Warn shafts. Since then no breakage. Before and after its been chopped running 36" swampers. So now his is much lighter and not a good comparison. I'm running the same D44 in my YJ also with an Aussi locker but stock shafts. I've got about 4 trips with it locked. No breakage yet with 37" MTR's. But I am lighter than a ZJ as well.
One thing I stand by. I've seen far to many V8 motors in competition built type stuff (or swapped in V8) break far bigger axles on about the same tires or a little bigger. Then watched the good ole 6 banger run right up the same obstacle and not break a thing. Go figure...... THen again maybe its an East Coast thing.

If you got a V8, might as well get the 60's.

Cody
05-12-2005, 02:17 PM
I think the key is the type of terrain you wheel and how heavy of a foot you have. If you wheel it hard, and you wheel where there is a ton of traction, the 44 is going to break.

If you wheel it like it's a full bodied grand cherokee that you have to drive to and from the trails, then you won't break the 44. You also won't break an upgraded 30 either IMO.

It'll be interesting to see how long it takes me to break the yukon shafts.....hopefully they'll hold up to some abuse.

Cody

JohnBoulderCO
05-12-2005, 04:14 PM
It'll be interesting to see how long it takes me to break the yukon shafts.....hopefully they'll hold up to some abuse.

Cody

Have you given them a good test yet?

Cody
05-12-2005, 04:18 PM
Have you given them a good test yet?


Not really. I did rusty nail and some of the optional lines on the back side of Golden Spike, but I haven't really hammered on them yet.

Cody

JohnBoulderCO
05-12-2005, 04:47 PM
Saving the hammer for GSW? :mrgreen:

I hope they hold. That would give us D30/D44 owners hope.

Cody
05-12-2005, 04:53 PM
You know I'm a show off. If there are people around I like to put on a show. Hal will be there so I'm sure he'll steal the spotlight from me :smt002

I do want to hit that hot tub if it's dry--I've also been thinking about trying to drive the end of Upper Helldorado. I thought my belly pan was too low but a guy I know did it on 35's, with a lower belly pan and a worse break over angle so I may have a chance. It's just scary.

Cody

JohnBoulderCO
05-12-2005, 05:03 PM
You know I'm a show off. Cody

Those girls didn't mind you giving them a "Bump". :smt002

trailzj
05-13-2005, 01:55 AM
I have 15 broken 44 axle shafts, like 7 or 8 joints, and at least a dozen obliterated hubs from the past 16 months to show just how strong the 44 is.
With 37's on a 44 you really should be running a selectable locker. I bet you would of at least cut your carnage in half. I wouldn't want to run 35's on a 44 without a selectable.

Al

Cody
05-13-2005, 02:11 AM
With 37's on a 44 you really should be running a selectable locker. I bet you would of at least cut your carnage in half. I wouldn't want to run 35's on a 44 without a selectable.

Al

I have an atlas. If I don't need 4wd, then I run in 2 lo rear.

The places I break axles aren't places you would be going without a front locker engaged. I went almost a year on the 44 without breaking it caue I was easy on it and my rig is relatively light. Eventually I started doing more difficult obstacles that require throttle and breakage happens. Plus, I would never drop that kind of money into the 44. I'd weld a 60 before I did that.

ROKN ZJ
05-15-2005, 11:31 AM
The But I'll help you with your research. Answer this question....

How many grand cherokee (or similar) owners are there that have swapped in a 44 and are happy with their choice?

(btw, this excludes those that had dynatrac 44's built)

keep searching--the answer is out there under you nose

any luck yet?

well, I'll give you the answer

Answer: 0

I guess the moral of my story is that you should throw some of those EVO shafts in the 30, buy 15 cases of beer, and put the remaining 250 bucks that it would have cost you to swap in the indestructable 44 and drive out to Moab and wheel it.

Cody

I'm fine with my front 44. But, I don't wheel it hard, so I guess that makes my point moot, sorry...



I have 15 broken 44 axle shafts, like 7 or 8 joints, and at least a dozen obliterated hubs from the past 16 months to show just how strong the 44 is.

With 37's on a 44 you really should be running a selectable locker. I bet you would of at least cut your carnage in half. I wouldn't want to run 35's on a 44 without a selectable.

Al

I don't understand your point on selectable lockers. I mean sure you can turn them off when you're driving down some easy stuff, but what're the chances you'll break on the easy stuff?

Cody
05-15-2005, 12:44 PM
[quote="ROKN ZJ"]

I'm fine with my front 44. But, I don't wheel it hard, so I guess that makes my point moot, sorry... [quote]

I wouldn't say your easy on that thing, but you also have warns and CTMs in it......

Lets say you had 1500 bucks to put into an axle....

would you

A) buy a 44 and put warn's and ctm's in it
B) buy a 60 and run it with stock shafts

The cost would probably be about the same......my point is that to make a 44 stand up to some abuse, you have to spend money--about the same amount that it would cost to get a 60 in the first place. Plus, 44's dont' have much resale value (since nobody wants them) and a 60 does so you can always get your money out of the 60 if need be.

Cody

trailzj
05-15-2005, 02:12 PM
I don't understand your point on selectable lockers. I mean sure you can turn them off when you're driving down some easy stuff, but what're the chances you'll break on the easy stuff?

Well when you are rock crawling with somthing like a lockrite it will stay locked since there will be a constant resistance. So just imagine a tough trail that can be had with just a rear locker, now put a front locker into the mix and you have unnecessary stress up front especially during tight turns. The key is to use your front locker only when necessary.

Al

OverkillZJ
05-15-2005, 02:23 PM
I don't understand your point on selectable lockers. I mean sure you can turn them off when you're driving down some easy stuff, but what're the chances you'll break on the easy stuff?

Well when you are rock crawling with somthing like a lockrite it will stay locked since there will be a constant resistance. So just imagine a tough trail that can be had with just a rear locker, now put a front locker into the mix and you have unnecessary stress up front especially during tight turns. The key is to use your front locker only when necessary.

Al

And as was said before, having a 2-lo effectively gives you a selectable locker.

trailzj
05-15-2005, 02:24 PM
Cody,

You changed a man, I wil now be getting rid of the dana 44 sitting in my garage and paitently search for a driver side 60.

Now anyone running a 60 with the 4.0? With the right gears should I be fine? It must be able to make the trek from Phoenix to Moab.

Al

trailzj
05-15-2005, 02:36 PM
I don't understand your point on selectable lockers. I mean sure you can turn them off when you're driving down some easy stuff, but what're the chances you'll break on the easy stuff?

Well when you are rock crawling with somthing like a lockrite it will stay locked since there will be a constant resistance. So just imagine a tough trail that can be had with just a rear locker, now put a front locker into the mix and you have unnecessary stress up front especially during tight turns. The key is to use your front locker only when necessary.

Al

And as was said before, having a 2-lo effectively gives you a selectable locker.

2-lo does not give you a selectable locker, it diconnects power to the front end which is good for tight turns. There is a big difference in traction between open and 2-lo. Plus ROKN ZJ's question was on selectable lockers in general, not particular to Cody's rig.

Al

Cody
05-15-2005, 03:52 PM
2-lo does not give you a selectable locker, it diconnects power to the front end which is good for tight turns. There is a big difference in traction between open and 2-lo. Plus ROKN ZJ's question was on selectable lockers in general, not particular to Cody's rig.

Al

you're right, but I'm not 'wearing out' my front axles. the caps are cracking and egging out the shaft--or the joint just explodes. I guess you could call that 'wear' accept they only last like 2 freakin days of wheelin.

I don't even run with my hubs engaged until I need 4 digs. An ARB would be cool, but I don't see the ROI on that kind of money.
Cody

OverkillZJ
05-15-2005, 05:41 PM
I don't understand your point on selectable lockers. I mean sure you can turn them off when you're driving down some easy stuff, but what're the chances you'll break on the easy stuff?

Well when you are rock crawling with somthing like a lockrite it will stay locked since there will be a constant resistance. So just imagine a tough trail that can be had with just a rear locker, now put a front locker into the mix and you have unnecessary stress up front especially during tight turns. The key is to use your front locker only when necessary.

Al

And as was said before, having a 2-lo effectively gives you a selectable locker.

2-lo does not give you a selectable locker, it diconnects power to the front end which is good for tight turns. There is a big difference in traction between open and 2-lo. Plus ROKN ZJ's question was on selectable lockers in general, not particular to Cody's rig.

Al

wow. THANK YOU SO MUCH! I wasn't aware that 2-lo was just that, TWO LOW which disconnects the front drive train.

Thank you for enlightening me, I truly appreciate it.

ROKN ZJ
05-16-2005, 01:36 AM
I wouldn't say your easy on that thing, but you also have warns and CTMs in it......

Lets say you had 1500 bucks to put into an axle....

would you

A) buy a 44 and put warn's and ctm's in it
B) buy a 60 and run it with stock shafts

The cost would probably be about the same......my point is that to make a 44 stand up to some abuse, you have to spend money--about the same amount that it would cost to get a 60 in the first place. Plus, 44's dont' have much resale value (since nobody wants them) and a 60 does so you can always get your money out of the 60 if need be.

Cody

You are right about the resale value. I think the problem comes from people who dump a bunch of money into a 44 and then later decide they want a 60. You can't recoup the costs. It's also why so many people say they wish they'd just gone to 60 in the first place, because they wanted to go bigger.

IMO if you build up a Jeep, and only plan on running 35s MAX, then a built 44 front is fine. If you ever have an inkling to go bigger, and honestly most people think they will, then go 60. Not every single person needs a 60, and I see a lot of people that think they need one, find one for $1000, dump a bunch of money rebuilding it, slapping it under their jeeps, and then not really using it. Plus there are other factors such as availabilty of parts, you won't be finding many in junkyards. And there are weight and width differences to take into account as well.

Anyway, I'm not bagging on 60s, I personally would NEVER run a 44 with anything larger than a 35" Mud Terrain type tire. But the originator of this post says he doesn't want to go bigger than 35s I doubt he'll ever wheel close to how hard Cody wheels and IMO a 44 would be just fine for him. My honest advice to him would be to try and buy Cody's axle, and put it under his jeep. It's sorta built, probably has some spare parts with it, wouldn't need to be gone through like a junkyard axle would, and then cody could get a 60 which is definitly what he needs.

Anyway that's my opinion, I could be wrong and this guy could be one of those guys who gets halfway through the project and decides he needs 42s, and then regrets getting a 44.

Hal

mtnzj
05-16-2005, 03:14 AM
ive been looking through a lot more info on front 60s in http://77cj.littlekeylime.com/Dana60.htm
and http://www.pirate4x4.com/tech/billavista/60_front/ and it looks like a F350 pair of axles (some F250's too) would be good for a dual 60 combo, but they come around 69.25"WMS which is way too wide so i would have to shorten them to something more reasonable like 63"-65" (depending on what production shafts companies make would be big in that decision). one other thing about the 60s is that they are heavy and hang pretty low. yea, i know i can shave them and probably would. It still produces some interesting results with my current lift and tires....

I don't know, from some of the things guys on colorado4x4 were saying a 44/60 combo out of a F250 would be good too....I dont know, i think all three 44/9, 44/60, and 60/60 would all work fine for my application. Price and availabilty will probably end up being the deciding factor.

Like ROKN was saying, I'll probably be fine with a 44 in front with 35's especially since I'm not heavy on the skinny petal and finess my way up a lot of obsticals. But still, it'll probably come down to availability and price. I'm probably going down to a local pull yard wed. and try to see what I can find.
thanks for the replies, most help in some way either informing me and others as well as helping toward my decision :partyman:

MaineZJ
05-18-2005, 08:28 AM
http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=357753

watch the vids Dibble posted :finga:

Jeepinparrothead
05-18-2005, 08:49 AM
That settles that, i will go with the 8.8 with some upgrades. If he can punish it that way and never break it, I don't think I will.

nate
05-18-2005, 11:29 AM
Yeah Rockcrawling.... :butthead:

D30s do fine with 38 TSLs, 37 Boggers, etc here.

JohnBoulderCO
05-18-2005, 06:21 PM
Good info on the 8.8 and some cool vids of what it can handle!