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beereyez
04-04-2005, 07:16 PM
I just wondered if anyone had any opinions on the Wagoneer AMC20. I am considering purchasing one that I found pretty inexpensively.

nate
04-05-2005, 11:13 AM
"ok"

H1s use them.

ELLLLLIOTTTTT
04-05-2005, 11:37 AM
an 8.8 or 9" is stronger

ROKN ZJ
04-05-2005, 11:47 AM
A 20 can be built pretty strong, and a waggy 20 should already have 1-piece axles which is good. If you really can get it cheap I'd say go for it. I would think it can be built stronger than an 8.8. (not a 9 though cause youc an build those up pretty damn high)

I've seen built CJ dana 20s (1-piece axles, welded tubes) hold up to 44s. I don't know how big you plan on going but I wouldn't be afraid to run 35s or 37s on one.

(disclaimer I don't know anything about 8.8s, so they could be gods gift to axles)

beereyez
04-05-2005, 12:37 PM
The deal is $700 for front Dana 44 and the AMC 20 with some ZJ brackets already set up (they need uppers and shock mounts). They have 4.10s, rear is welded and front has lock-right.

I didnt figure I could even regear my axles and fix my front ball joint problem for that price.

bill~ns
04-05-2005, 02:25 PM
I like the M20, and run it with 1-pc axles and a lockright behind a 360 with my Willys. Even so, that's a pretty steep price to pay for both those axles. Expecially since there is nothing really all that special done to the M20.
Personally, if the price is $350 per axle, I'd just grab the D44.... if he wants like $500 for the D44 and $200 for the M20, and you think $500 is fair, then you might as well grab both.

Are the bolt patterns matched? I assume they're both from the same FSJ?

Bill

robselina
04-05-2005, 09:35 PM
3" axle tubes, one piece shafts, 30 spline I think, 9" ring gear, no c-clips...they're actually pretty stout.

ROKN ZJ
04-06-2005, 12:17 AM
3" axle tubes, one piece shafts, 30 spline I think, 9" ring gear, no c-clips...they're actually pretty stout.

I though 8.8s had 8.8" ring gears?

Anyway, 20s have 8 7/8" ring gear, 2.5" tubes, 29 spline shafts. And the waggy ones have 1-piece shafts.

SO I guess it's almost a toss-up, but I would assume the 8.8 can run larger shafts if someone makes them. Again I don't know anything about 8.8s to know if anyone makes them. I did a quick search though and they some 8.8s have 31 spline shafts as well as some that are 27 spline.

coming back to the question though Iknow you said he started setting up the axles for a ZJ. Has he gone through the axles and replaced anything, or would you need to go through and rebuilf them yourself?

Jim311
04-06-2005, 12:52 AM
3" axle tubes, one piece shafts, 30 spline I think, 9" ring gear, no c-clips...they're actually pretty stout.

I though 8.8s had 8.8" ring gears?

Anyway, 20s have 8 7/8" ring gear, 2.5" tubes, 29 spline shafts. And the waggy ones have 1-piece shafts.

SO I guess it's almost a toss-up, but I would assume the 8.8 can run larger shafts if someone makes them. Again I don't know anything about 8.8s to know if anyone makes them. I did a quick search though and they some 8.8s have 31 spline shafts as well as some that are 27 spline.

coming back to the question though Iknow you said he started setting up the axles for a ZJ. Has he gone through the axles and replaced anything, or would you need to go through and rebuilf them yourself?


Yeah, the 8.8 does in fact have an 8.8 inch ring gear. The Explorers had 31 spline shafts, and the Mustangs had the 28 splines. I'm not aware of any upgrades carrier/shaft wise for more strength, but from the numbers I've read, the 8.8 is nearly as strong as a D60 in terms of breaking strength. I know the tubes on the 8.8 are pretty fawkin beefy, especially compared to a 20.

phillyzj
04-06-2005, 08:54 AM
3" axle tubes, one piece shafts, 30 spline I think, 9" ring gear, no c-clips...they're actually pretty stout.

I though 8.8s had 8.8" ring gears?

Anyway, 20s have 8 7/8" ring gear, 2.5" tubes, 29 spline shafts. And the waggy ones have 1-piece shafts.

SO I guess it's almost a toss-up, but I would assume the 8.8 can run larger shafts if someone makes them. Again I don't know anything about 8.8s to know if anyone makes them. I did a quick search though and they some 8.8s have 31 spline shafts as well as some that are 27 spline.

coming back to the question though Iknow you said he started setting up the axles for a ZJ. Has he gone through the axles and replaced anything, or would you need to go through and rebuilf them yourself?


Yeah, the 8.8 does in fact have an 8.8 inch ring gear. The Explorers had 31 spline shafts, and the Mustangs had the 28 splines. I'm not aware of any upgrades carrier/shaft wise for more strength, but from the numbers I've read, the 8.8 is nearly as strong as a D60 in terms of breaking strength. I know the tubes on the 8.8 are pretty fawkin beefy, especially compared to a 20.

i believe the D60 comparison is a 30spline semifloat D60, so it's an ok comparison but not as amazing as it sounds.

that sounds like an ok deal, though not incredible. HP44/9" combo's can be found for about that with more desirable gears, though they will be full width and still need all the brackets. I guess it's a tossup. If this is a trail rig or you can get away with tire sticking out, i'd run wider axles you know are stronger. That's just my 2 cents of course, the amc20 is a decent axle from what i can tell, though aftermarket support isn't incredible.

robselina
04-07-2005, 12:35 AM
3" axle tubes, one piece shafts, 30 spline I think, 9" ring gear, no c-clips...they're actually pretty stout.

I though 8.8s had 8.8" ring gears?

Anyway, 20s have 8 7/8" ring gear, 2.5" tubes, 29 spline shafts. And the waggy ones have 1-piece shafts.

SO I guess it's almost a toss-up, but I would assume the 8.8 can run larger shafts if someone makes them. Again I don't know anything about 8.8s to know if anyone makes them. I did a quick search though and they some 8.8s have 31 spline shafts as well as some that are 27 spline.

coming back to the question though Iknow you said he started setting up the axles for a ZJ. Has he gone through the axles and replaced anything, or would you need to go through and rebuilf them yourself?

SJ AMC20s are actually M23s. They come with 3" axle tubes, not the 2.5" ones on CJs. The housings are equal strength to an 8.8 and among the FSJ crowd, the M23 has a slightly better rep than the D44. IT's fine in stock condition for 35" tires on a ZJ. I beat the crap out of mine in the waggy before the D60 went in the back (never broke the stocker, just wanted lower gears).....

ggruszynski
04-07-2005, 12:54 AM
There is a 33 spline option for the 8.8, but you have to run a spool and c-clip eliminators.

beereyez
04-07-2005, 03:26 PM
The axles are both 6 bolt (which kinda takes away from the deal since Id have to buy new wheels). The price may be negotiable also. The axles are stock though as far as bearings and seals.

Another question, how bad do you think it will drive with a welded rear and lockright up front? My jeep is currently a DD. I used to wheel it a lot but since the 5.9 swap I havent since I still have D35c

robselina
04-08-2005, 12:50 AM
Another question, how bad do you think it will drive with a welded rear and lockright up front? My jeep is currently a DD. I used to wheel it a lot but since the 5.9 swap I havent since I still have D35c

231, 242, 249? If it's the later, no good. 2wd option, you're fine.

beereyez
04-08-2005, 01:08 PM
I have a 242

nate
04-10-2005, 04:54 AM
AMC 20.... Fairly common problem from what I understand, just usually not quite this bad!

http://www.alaska4x4network.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=3931&stc=1

http://www.alaska4x4network.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=3932&stc=1

http://www.alaska4x4network.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=3933&stc=1