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View Full Version : 242 won't go into 2wd



ATL ZJ
03-25-2005, 03:08 AM
Driving back from school to home today (3 hr drive), I was running about 80mph, about an hour into my drive, when all of a sudden I heard and felt a significantly increased driveline vibe. I assumed it was a ujoint or driveshaft bolt needing attention, so I planned to exit and take a look at the next exit. Before I got there, I started to smell burning gear oil. My first assumption is that I'd heated up the rearend too much and that the pinion bearing and seal went (read: lots of carnage).

Pulled over, I discovered that gear oil was actually pouring out the breather tube on the front axle. (Waggy 44, I self-tapped the housing for the breather because the stock hole was covered by the UCA mount). I first suspected that my hubs had malfunctioned, and were somehow still engaged. After closer inspection, I found them to be working just fine. The ring gear had been engaged by the spinning front driveshaft and was slinging gear oil all the way up the breather.

With the tranny in drive, using my hand to control the brake pedal, I can see that the front driveshaft is spinning when the t-case shift lever and VIC claim that the t-case is in 2wd. Of course I suspected the linkage at first, so I then disconnected the linkage, and shifted the tcase manually, but never could get it into a range where the front driveshaft was able to spin freely.

The plan right now is for both driveshafts and the tcase to come out tomorrow to see what's going on a little bit better. Has this happened to anybody else? Worn shift fork possibly?

ELLLLLIOTTTTT
03-25-2005, 04:41 AM
the front DS always spins regardless of 4WD or 2WD. Is it still vibing like hell when you're driving it? Did you pull the front shaft when you were checking everthing out?

nate
03-25-2005, 05:25 AM
If the hubs aren't locked and the T case is in 2wd, the driveshaft won't spin.

Sounds like a broken snap ring in the T Case. Mine did the same thing and eventually led to a 231 swap.

ATL ZJ
03-25-2005, 11:08 AM
That helps a lot Nate. I don't have the exploded 242 pic in front of me- how hard is that snap ring to get to and replace? And also, how precise do the tolerances in the tcase need to be when you pull everything, replace a part like that, and then put it back? Or does everything fit one way, and only one way? I realize I sound like a noob here :rolleyes:, but I'd like to take care of this today. Pics to come.

nate
03-26-2005, 05:42 AM
There are 2 or 3 snaprings that hold the mainshaft from moving in and out. It's not by much, maybe 1/4", but that's enough that the shift fork can't push the "slider gear" onto the right part of the diff (T Case diff). What killed mine was that the "slider gear" ran in the middle of 2wd and 4wd and ate it and the dog teeth off the diff.

Most of the parts can only go in one place. There aren't any tolerances or preloads you need to set, I know some T Cases are like that. What I used it the ISB (illustrated parts breakdown) from the Haynes book and followed that to make sure it all went together in the right place.

Swamp boy
03-26-2005, 10:59 AM
The Planetary set went out in my 242 and I had the exact oppisite effect.. No matter what It would not go into 4 WD.. And I was deep in the woods on a ride... I had the most fun ever getting out of that trail in 2WD :smt003 :smt003

But unfortunatly my T-Case didnt agree... IT was totally destroyed..

I am with nate on the "no tolerances" It appears that the snap rings just hold everything in place and if one brakes or is not in the groove you are poked..

Get it open and post some pics.. Nothing better than street carnage on a grand... (Except parking lot carnage...) :rolleyes:

ATL ZJ
03-27-2005, 03:09 AM
A very frustrating day, but I do have pics. Got the case out, cracked almost all the way open without taking either of the outputs off :smt018, so I went back and removed the front:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v125/atlzj/Jeep/242_0076.jpg

Then, I went ahead and tried to take the back off. There's a metal shield that sits on the very end (non-splined part) of the rear output shaft right where it meets the tailcone. I cannot get it off. I've tried punching back off the shaft, heating it up, and trying to twist it. It seems like I may need some sort of puller. Or am I doing something wrong? I need to get inside this thing so I can see what kind of carnage I might have.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v125/atlzj/Jeep/shieldarrow.jpg

nate
03-27-2005, 06:51 AM
What your supposed to do is take a chisel and split it in half. The small part that is on the shaft is all that's holding it. I guess you'd have to buy a new one then. What I did on mine was hammer it off and reused it. All that is a dust shield that protects the actual seal which is behind it.

Interesting way to remove the front output. I just stuck the impact on the nut and buzzed it off. :mrgreen:

Swamp boy
03-27-2005, 09:32 AM
Have you looked every where for those pesky littly Lockrings....

I think there is one on the shaft either behind the oil seal or inside the tail cone..

If you have the clip off.. Try lightly tapping the output shaft while you pry on the housing... (I think thats how I got mine apart before...)

I remember having trouble in the same spot but not how I over came it...

I didnt have a cap on mine but that cap at the end of the tailshaft looks like it has to come off... ... There is probobly a seal and a clip behind it..

I would try taking a flat prybar and placing the edge on that lip and whacking it with a hammer...

Like so.....

http://images.igloos.ca/d/63595-2/IM003286.JPG

Kraqa
03-27-2005, 04:26 PM
you can ditch that metal thing. al it does is suppoed to protect the output seal. i didtch mine and have put 75,000 on my 231 with out any problems.

ATL ZJ
03-28-2005, 03:08 AM
The chisel worked great on that dust shield. Didn't get too far today on it, but I did get it open and started taking things apart.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v125/atlzj/Jeep/242_0085.jpg

What is the purpose of these broken plastic things?

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v125/atlzj/Jeep/242_0083.jpg

Also, there was some serious heat on the planetaries?? I believe that sit on the mainshaft: Is this from welding or maybe part of my problem? Haven't cracked that part open yet..

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v125/atlzj/Jeep/242_0078.jpg


As for rebuild kits, I've been told JB conversions has a good one. Any other recommendations? I'm also considering installing an SYE while I have everything cracked open, but I figure I can just do the RE hack and tap with the case back under the Jeep since I'll need to know measurements for a CV driveshaft anyways.

Krash80
03-28-2005, 03:22 AM
....but I'd like to take care of this today.

HA HA HA HA HAHA .......today...ah hah ah ahah ah!!haHah aha!!!! :mrgreen:

That's almost as funny as when i hydrolocked my engine on a trail about 2 miles from my house, right after it happened my buddy's mom called his cell phone and he tells her, "yeah mom, i'll be home in about an hour." He probably got home about 9 hours later after pulling my totally dead ZJ through a bunch of difficult uphill muddy/steep trails and back to my house with his YJ and a TJ...oh man, good times.

10 bucks says that t-case never works in your jeep again and you swap a whole nother case into it. Sorry for the pessimism...i just have bad luck w/ t-cases.

nate
03-28-2005, 05:45 AM
In that middle pic, the piece of plastic looks like part of a shift fork pad. That's the only thing in there that's plastic that I can think of. The other thing on the right is a magnet that sits by the sump...

On the diff, that's how it was welded. Mine was the same.

Now if that is a shift fork pad, that would probably be a good reason for it to not shift into 2WD. Take a look on the shift forks, there should be plastic pieces on the fork... either 2 or 3, can't remember for sure.

Swamp boy
03-28-2005, 10:07 AM
Check the small spiral gears on the outside of that planetary... That is where my t-case shattered and it is the weak link in the 242...

Clean that magnet and put it back where it belongs ... Check your shifting now and see if you can tell what it happening...

ATL ZJ
03-28-2005, 11:23 AM
....but I'd like to take care of this today.

HA HA HA HA HAHA .......today...ah hah ah ahah ah!!haHah aha!!!! :mrgreen:

That's almost as funny as when i hydrolocked my engine on a trail about 2 miles from my house, right after it happened my buddy's mom called his cell phone and he tells her, "yeah mom, i'll be home in about an hour." He probably got home about 9 hours later after pulling my totally dead ZJ through a bunch of difficult uphill muddy/steep trails and back to my house with his YJ and a TJ...oh man, good times.

10 bucks says that t-case never works in your jeep again and you swap a whole nother case into it. Sorry for the pessimism...i just have bad luck w/ t-cases.


Ummm thanks? I know it always takes longer than you think... But I don't see why it wouldn't work if I install a rebuild kit and replace the broken or worn parts..

ATL ZJ
03-28-2005, 11:28 AM
The 3 plastic "pads" are still intact on the shift fork, which is why I was wondering if that was where that part of the broken plastic ring really came from. The pads are VERY worn though, and there seems to be some play in the front half of the case...

ATL ZJ
03-28-2005, 01:25 PM
I think I may have found my problem... or at least part of it. Inside the differential on the mainshaft, one of the smaller side gears would not turn. I am figuring that this would essentially make it locked all the time, and explain why I could not turn the front or rear driveshaft when the transfer case was in neutral, or engage 2wd. I am also assuming that this meant that my 4 fulltime was essentially 4 parttime.

The side gear looked like it had welded itself onto it's post, probably due to excessive heat from lack of lubrication- the level in the case was very low last time I checked it. I guess I'll just file that post down smooth, and see how it works. Let me know if this all sounds logical.

ATL ZJ
03-28-2005, 09:27 PM
Here's what it all looks like, sorry I know the pics suck-- Need to clean the camera lens I believe...


You can see the differential assembly opened up here, with the 6 smaller gears each riding on a post. One of these got hot enough to basically weld itself to its post.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v125/atlzj/Jeep/242_0097.jpg

I tried to get the gear off, but in doing so, I got a little chisel happy. Here's the carnage:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v125/atlzj/Jeep/242_0090.jpg

With that post entirely knocked off, I don't know how much good this differential assembly is to me. Should I try and replace that entire part, and throw a rebuild kit in, or just pick up a whole 'nother tcase?

nate
03-29-2005, 05:08 AM
I didn't realize that you could take the diff apart. It's not welded together?

I should say find another case and save that one for parts... probably be the cheapest thing.. unless you know of someone that's parting a t case for cheap?

shayzj
03-29-2005, 08:58 AM
I say throw that whole pile in the dumpster and go get a 231 with the same type of rear output. I got one out of a 97 cherokee. That way you wont have to get a new rear shaft. That is how I would try and do it. Still might need your old input shaft though.

Shay

OverkillZJ
03-29-2005, 10:48 AM
I say throw that whole pile in the dumpster and go get a 231 with the same type of rear output. I got one out of a 97 cherokee. That way you wont have to get a new rear shaft. That is how I would try and do it. Still might need your old input shaft though.

Shay

:word:

ATL ZJ
03-29-2005, 10:55 AM
Welllll... I am thinking that a replacement case is in order...

What about this one- it's out of a TJ: http://www.southernjeeps.org/phpbb/viewtopic.php?t=8249

It's out of a 98 TJ. In my searching, I've found that a lot of TJ cases don't work with the input I need. Can anyone chime in on this?

Pearce
03-29-2005, 01:39 PM
Pull A Part has a lot of XJ's with transfer cases in them for $111.42

ATL ZJ
03-29-2005, 02:00 PM
I might get a buddy to check Pullapart for me. I'll be out of town til April 7th or 8th and was going to try to hit up Tellico that weekend... :mrgreen: Not sure if I'll be able to pull that off now. It's always something. :rolleyes:

nate
03-29-2005, 02:36 PM
My 231 is from an XJ... I'm not sure if they have different length inputs like we do with the ZJs... I do know the one I got was the right length though.

ATL ZJ
03-29-2005, 02:49 PM
What year XJ nate? We need a database of which tcases have what input lengths and splines, etc. This getting confusing as hell.. pre-94 is one cut, post 94 is another cut.. the 231 alone has 5 different input gears varying in splines/ length. And then there are the different vehicles and years, not to mention 242 to 231 compatibility. :rolleyes:

And I know the best way is to "try it and see," but I need it to work on the first shot so I can go wheel..

shayzj
03-29-2005, 04:23 PM
:partyman: Good luck I have swapped out two different tcases and have always had to swap inputs. Just make sure you have the pre or post 95 model that applies to your application and the gear mesh should be the same. No I do not really know what I am talking about. Just go for it. :butthead:

Shay

FinlayZJ
03-29-2005, 04:44 PM
I'll help you push that thing into the Hooch if you want? :finga:

ATL ZJ
03-29-2005, 05:24 PM
I'll help you push that thing into the Hooch if you want? :finga:

Ha the tcase of the whole heep?

nate
03-29-2005, 10:18 PM
From a 99 XJ, my ZJ is a 98.


What year XJ nate? We need a database of which tcases have what input lengths and splines, etc. This getting confusing as hell.. pre-94 is one cut, post 94 is another cut.. the 231 alone has 5 different input gears varying in splines/ length. And then there are the different vehicles and years, not to mention 242 to 231 compatibility. :rolleyes:

And I know the best way is to "try it and see," but I need it to work on the first shot so I can go wheel..

Swamp boy
03-30-2005, 04:33 AM
I have swapped 3 T cases and I always swap inputs.. Damn V8 nothing seems to work on it.. My current Case is a 231 D out of a dodge 1500 and it had a 5.2 the input still didnt work...

The only issue I had was that the 231 was a little longer so I had to lengthen my Rear control arms some . No big deal.. Pushed it back about an 1 3/4" ..

Carl

ATL ZJ
03-30-2005, 11:55 AM
Well the input on the SYE'd TJ 231 I was looking at sticks out 2" from the face of the tcase, whereas mine sticks out only 7/8", so it looks like I will in fact be swapping inputs if I go that route.

Krash80
03-30-2005, 01:28 PM
Ummm thanks? I know it always takes longer than you think... But I don't see why it wouldn't work if I install a rebuild kit and replace the broken or worn parts..

Sorry bout that, just had to laugh when you said you wanted to get it taken care of "today."...been there, thought it was a day project, ended up w/ a 900$ 242 from T-Cases Unlimited a month later and was scratching my head wondering how the hell that happened. I can rebuild just about anything, but for some reason i've yet to pull a t-case apart and have it work correctly when i put it back together...they're just a huge pain in the ass sometimes.

The reason i ended up going w/ the 900$ case was because i got so sick of pulling apart multiple cases and trying to mix and match parts to get the right input shaft etc etc to bolt up to my jeep. George at TCU guaranteed his t-case would bolt right up and was in brand new (remanned) condition and he had a great reputation for warranties on his cases, so i figured i was better off spending the money and being done with it for good.

-Ron-

ATL ZJ
03-30-2005, 01:42 PM
I am now starting to think along the same lines that you were. The 231 from that 98 TJ is relatively new, low mileage, and already SYE'd and comes with a CV driveshaft. All for $400. So I could be setup for $490 once I get that driveshaft lengthened. Also, there's no telling how much excess wear there was on that 242 with all that vibe and heat. It got hot enough to weld the differential together, and the vibes were bad enough where I couldn't make out what was in my rearview mirror and change was rattling out of the closed change holder/ ashtray. :supz:

Anyone need a 242 for parts? Or a long 23 spline input gear? It's very likely that they'll be available in a week or so.

FinlayZJ
03-30-2005, 04:14 PM
I charge a 10% finders fee on the 231 if you buy it. I take cash, check or alcohol. :drinkers: Or if you don't make Tellico, you will help me move. Thanks.

Kraqa
03-30-2005, 04:51 PM
was i the only guy who swapped in a 231 with no prblems?? geesus it must be the air south of the boarder.

Nordic1
03-30-2005, 05:05 PM
You're not the only one... mine went in pretty easy (although it shifts kinda hard)

ATL ZJ
03-30-2005, 06:44 PM
was i the only guy who swapped in a 231 with no prblems?? geesus it must be the air south of the boarder.

Yeah it doesn't have as much :weedman: smoke in it...

zj-monster
06-10-2006, 02:54 PM
http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d100/z-monster/Smilies/3zombie-xbj44-thumb.gifBringing this thread back from the dead.http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d100/z-monster/Smilies/3zombie-xbj45-thumb.gif

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v125/atlzj/Jeep/shieldarrow.jpg

I had to mention that this thread sure as SHIT helped me with the damned dust shield the NV242 has on it. I didn't use a chisel though. Just soaked it all with WD40 then used a sharp flat blade POS screwdriver & hammered the crap out of it enuff to make a groove to grab on to. Then it rotated and just slid out.

http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d100/z-monster/Forum%20Write%20Up/Transfer%20Case/DSC00506.jpg
http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d100/z-monster/Forum%20Write%20Up/Transfer%20Case/DSC00507.jpg
http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d100/z-monster/Forum%20Write%20Up/Transfer%20Case/DSC00508.jpg
http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d100/z-monster/Forum%20Write%20Up/Transfer%20Case/DSC00505.jpg

Today was my 1st time messing with the NV242. It was leaking like mad all week and I decided to get off my ass and fix the seals with some RTV all the way around it.

Just goes to prove that searching this forum had better results than google. Google failed me on this task. Kinda n00bish I know but I know for a fact that there are more out there who will want to do this also.

So now, do I even bother to reuse this POS? Is the 242 the only case to use this dust shield?
http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d100/z-monster/Forum%20Write%20Up/Transfer%20Case/DSC00503.jpg

:best:

TrojanMan
06-10-2006, 03:20 PM
What parts do you still have from the shaft? I might need something to put my 231 on my AW4.

DJJordache
06-10-2006, 03:20 PM
if you want to replace it, it is only a few bucks at the dealer, surprisingly cheap. I used a 2claw press to get that dumb thing off and killed it bigtime pulling it off.

nate
06-10-2006, 05:11 PM
Hey TM, what parts do you need?

I have almost a bunch of spare 231 parts that I really don't need (well I don't think I need) haha.

TrojanMan
06-10-2006, 07:56 PM
I'm not 100% sure yet. I have a 93 ZJ 231 and a 96 XJ AW4. I haven't looked much into their mating. I'm pretty sure I need something different because the 93 ZJ 231 uses the medium length input shaft if I recall.

zj-monster
06-10-2006, 08:12 PM
What parts do you still have from the shaft? I might need something to put my 231 on my AW4.
Just in case you we're asking me, I don't have anything extra. I was just wanting to re-seal everything. I hate when my shit leaks. :D

And why in holy-hell does the top bolt that holds the 2 halves together have to be different?
All bolts are 15 mm socket but the top one had to be a 12-point 10mm socket.:pissed: