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View Full Version : Why are coils better than leaves? opinions?



TrojanMan
03-13-2005, 03:50 PM
Disclaimer : I know this may sound newb-ish, but Its a serious question and I really doubted I'd get any real responses from JU and I didn't think it was quite noob enough for the noob forum.

So I'm putting together my 5-6" lift.. and I showed my best friend the list of crap I need to find. He asked me why I didn't just go to leafs (cheaper) and I told him I actually wanted flex. He started into an argument as to why leafs are better.. and I knew coils > leafs but I couldn't really think of reasons. Care to share some ammo?

By the way.. he drives a bronco lol, that's why he's so stubborn about leafs. He's also mad that my ZJ w/ BB + 31" tires outflexed his bronco w/ 8" skyjacker rock ready lift w/ 35" TSL's.

OverkillZJ
03-13-2005, 04:23 PM
FYI: the search here works:

http://mallcrawlin.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=73

http://mallcrawlin.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=766

http://mallcrawlin.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=77

TrojanMan
03-13-2005, 04:53 PM
I guess something was going on, on my side. I couldn't get it to work right.

Sorry :axe:

*edit*.. those links gave some sweet pics of builds, but not alot of argument

Raacerx
03-13-2005, 09:37 PM
Whys it matter anyways? Your not about to convert your ZJ to leafs (unless your Kraqa) so its a mute point.

Theres pros and cons for both. people can argue all day about it. me personally, after dealing with coils and the headaches associated with them, Im defintely going leafs this next time.

OverkillZJ
03-13-2005, 09:42 PM
*edit*.. those links gave some sweet pics of builds, but not alot of argument

So you can't use the search AND you can't read? First sentence in first link:
why are leafs better than 4 link?

Alaska gives several goto comparisons.

Second link? Nate tries to make it about his build, but it ends up about link anyway. All three links (which toom ke 20 seconds to find) give you information on leafs why/why not.

There's not a lot of argument, because frankly, THERE'S NOT A LOT OF INTEREST.

TrojanMan
03-13-2005, 10:59 PM
I read them all. I'm sorry, but I just meant that there wasn't alot of anything. They were all like "go leafs", "no go coils" over and over again. someone gave some good argument yeah, but I just wanted a little more of both sides.

And I would consider going leafs, I just need to be more informed of each.

:finga:

Krash80
03-14-2005, 02:29 AM
i agree with Raacerx...i'm so sick of coil BS i'd much rather have a rig with leaves or with coilovers.

My next DD/weekend wheeler vehicle with have leaves, and my next trail-only rig will have coilovers....plain coils get to be a pain in the ass once they get as long as they are on the front of a ZJ at 6"+ lift.

but you can always make leaves flex just as well as coils. to argue which is better is like arguing what's better for offroading, an auto or manual tranny.

-Ron-

LouisianaZJ
03-14-2005, 04:09 AM
leaves are way easier to setup, and cheaper. no long arm Bs or anything. they can flex just as well or almost as well as coils if properly setup

notice the ass is still flat, its not limiting flex here
http://i160.exs.cx/img160/7290/flexass6qq.th.jpg (http://img160.exs.cx/my.php?loc=img160&image=flexass6qq.jpg)

if i wanted to swap in a new rear. 2 spring perches and 2 shock mounts later it would be in pretty much. a leaf sprung front would just need that plus a t-bar and s-bar mounts and id be done.

Jim311
03-14-2005, 08:23 AM
A good longarm coil sprung rig will out flex a leaf spring rig every time, unless perhaps we're talking about quarter eliptical or something. The only thing I like about leafs is on sidehills.




:goodman:

MaineZJ
03-14-2005, 09:14 AM
both have advantages / disadvantages

if you like coils, use em
if you like leaves, use em

I've seen both do some amazing stuff.

Kraqa
03-14-2005, 03:33 PM
There both fantastic.

depends on how you drive. where you drive. and that you want to drive over.

I'm going to 1/4 ellip so that i can get a trully progressive spring rate with out having to go with coilovers. and plus its super cheep.

TrojanMan
03-14-2005, 04:50 PM
thanks for the input fellas. THIS is why I visit JU 100 times less than I used to.

Pearce
03-14-2005, 06:20 PM
Overkill,
Chill out man. :weedman: The guy just wants a discussion about leaves vs coils. Its ok to ask. There may be new info to post as I am about to do.

So here is my take for what its worth.
I took a YJ and converted it to coils for a couple reasons. First I have a pretty good undersanding of how coil suspensions work. And I feel very comfortable with that style. I wanted to make that work for me.
Second, to move my axle back like I did a leaf would not work. I'd have this shackle hanging way out my rear, and in the way. Didnt want that either. I could have fixed that with the 1/4 eliptical but again, I enjoy working with coils.
So there are some more reasons to decide what you might want to do. Like most say, they both work just fine as long as you have them set up right. Sure one is cheaper. But as long as it does what you want it to do is all that matters. I got all my coils on the YJ right now for free and had a lot of fun building a long arm suspension.
Down the road I'd like to try coilovers, but I think I'll be waiting till I have lots of cash saved up :)

Cody
03-14-2005, 10:26 PM
There are advantages and disadvantages to both obviously. I don't have the time or patience to list them all, but to me leaves are cool cause they are stable, predictable, and reliable. Coils are better because you can fine tune the suspension a lot better than you can with leaves, generally get better flex, and it's a way better ride.

I had to ride in my buddies cruiser/buggy on a dirt road for a couple miles. Screw that, my kidnies are still recovering.

Cody

Jcbzj
03-15-2005, 11:11 PM
Im going to rear leafs on my ZJ, I was going 4 link, but leafs are definately much cheaper and much easier. Im finally learning to weld, and I figured this would be an easier alternative opposed to jumping straight into building a 4 link rear, which I dont think i could handle right now

msvance
03-16-2005, 11:30 PM
coils don't necessarily flex better than leafs nor vice versa. IF you can obtain the lift you need to run the tire size you want w/ long/flat leafs then they can and do flex extremely well. For example, one of my buddies had a tj w/ ~6" lift full width axles, 36" SX's etc. My CJ has stock waggy's SOA up front and durango springs SOA in the rear, running full width axles and 36" SX's. Both rigs were very comparable in most aspects. I have a pic, that i can't find right now, that has both of us flexed on a tire on either side of another buddies truggy (if that makes sense). The picture clearly shows his vehicle "leaning" slightly more than my CJ. My CJ was actually a little more level but they were very close. It is the best comparison shot i have ran across to date. However, If you have to use a more "arched" spring to achieve the lift you desire then you start to loose flex and get a much more stiff ride.

also, leafs don't really sidehill any better than coils, coils just require finer tuning (i.e. link geometry, sway bar, etc.), which requires time and money.

the biggest drawback, IMO, of leafs is the loss of approach/departure angle. If you run xj, waggy or durango springs the shortest side from center pin to spring eye is ~22". You would need to run a 40" tire to have a perfect approach or departure angle. Some people use the main leaf from a toy, which is ~21" I think and even re-drill the center-pin another 1" of so forward which definitely helps w/ the approach/departure angle issue, however that causes some of it's own issues. You can get a perfect approach/departure angle with any size tire w/ coils.

another drawback of leafs is that you can't easily adjust pinion angle. you have to weld the spring perch at the desired angle or use shims to compensate.

leafs also have axle wrap issues, but that is easily compensated for by adding a ladder bar (anti-wrap bar).

I personally love my ZJ w/ coils and would never go leafs w/ it. With that said, I love my CJ and would never really coil it (well, maybe i would the rear of it).

anyhow, just some of my random thoughts, comments, experiences, etc. for what it is worth

msvance
03-16-2005, 11:54 PM
i found the pic. lets see if imagestation will work or not

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid99/p905c18ef9a5b99c5d399c3045b6ab708/f9ed4833.jpg

TrojanMan
03-18-2005, 12:26 AM
thanks for the insight :partyman: