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nate
02-13-2005, 01:05 AM
Well my LP D30 has started to smile a bit from what I figure. The tires are doing / \, so not too good.

I'm looking at putting a HP D30 in. I went junkyard searching today, found a few prospects... but that lead me to this question:

What year(s) are the best ones? I ruled out vac disco right away. Other than the shaft differences (CV, 260x, 297x), what years would have the same bearings, brakes as a newer axle??

BTW, the cheapest I found so far is off a 95 for $450. Did I ever mention shit is cheap up here?

shayzj
02-13-2005, 02:16 AM
Probably just your alignment. Mine looked like that and i freaked out too. Went and put a hp30 in and it looked the same way until I had a GOOD alignment done. Just my opinion.

Shay

Nordic1
02-13-2005, 02:18 AM
Hey... Disco housings have cast iron UCA mounts on BOTH sides... that's beef compared to a regular hp30 IMO. Throw a blockoff plate and regular shafts in there and you're schoolin

LouisianaZJ
02-13-2005, 02:33 AM
vac disco hp
http://img24.exs.cx/img24/2598/tire_1704.jpg

http://img40.exs.cx/img40/6518/tire_1709.jpg

it can be converted to 297 axles pretty easy

anyways, i think like a 92-00 XJ will be non disco, and someting like 96-00 XJ will have 297x, as well as all 92-96 with ABS

nate
02-13-2005, 02:44 AM
My alignment is ok. If I take the weight off the front axle, it straightens out. Like the housing is cracked and it's flexing.

I will take some pics in a bit to show.

LouisianaZJ
02-13-2005, 02:53 AM
ball joints or hubs

nate
02-13-2005, 03:22 AM
BJs are a year old and the hubs are brand new this summer... not even 2000 miles on them. No movement with the normal checks.

Good idea though. That was the 1st thing I checked too.

Kraqa
02-13-2005, 07:18 AM
ahh newbi tech man. nopting wrong with a HPD30 but still man theres nothing hard core about this.,

Nordic1
02-13-2005, 08:52 AM
hey all dana 30s are hardcore

Swamp boy
02-13-2005, 12:00 PM
:lol: :lol: :lol:


Did you check the welds at the housing??? How about putting a straight edge on that axle??


Lousyana, You still have that thing?? How much d o you want????

LouisianaZJ
02-13-2005, 02:38 PM
:lol: :lol: :lol:


Did you check the welds at the housing??? How about putting a straight edge on that axle??


Lousyana, You still have that thing?? How much d o you want????

do you have a functional welder?
i got a few little things i need welded move up a swaybar mount, weld on 2 lca skids and eventually move up the rear shock mounts in a couple months. if you want ill just give you the housing for hooking a brotha up with some welding.

still got it listed on LA for $35

Swamp boy
02-13-2005, 05:40 PM
I can do that.. MY welder is dead but I will borrow Mikes (Bareass) welder and hook you up.. Let me know when you want to get that stuff done and I will get his welder...



Carl

LouisianaZJ
02-13-2005, 06:02 PM
cool

nate
02-13-2005, 07:05 PM
WTF... God damn thread pirates. Take the fucking shit to PMs you assclowns.

My D30 is bent, I don't need 10 people telling me its not and something else is bad... I didn't feel I needed to write a story about how I checked it out and found it was bent... it is bent. period!


Where the fuck does it say "HARDCORE TECH" on here? It's says fucking DRIVELINES. A D30 is a driveline... I was looking to start a discussing on what year would be the best overall axle.

NEWBIE shit is where does my diff vent plug into, etc.

OverkillZJ
02-13-2005, 08:58 PM
HOLY SHIT!

nathaniel
02-13-2005, 09:00 PM
If you are looking at 450 for a 30 might as well consider finding a hp 44 or 60 for 1k. At least it wont be smiling. :D

LouisianaZJ
02-13-2005, 09:21 PM
RARRRRR!!!111

nate
02-13-2005, 10:58 PM
I was just aggravated about the general attitude this board has at certain times. I am trying to get real tech here and instead I get all sorts of b/s. If you don't have any good info, just don't post. Maybe I went overboard, but I'm not editing my post.

It's not just this post, but others as well. It's ok, I'll find anything board that suits me better.

OverkillZJ
02-13-2005, 11:15 PM
Nate,

I don't really know what you're expecting here. Dave started this board to avoid the threads that have been started 1,000 times before, that's the point here. It's not a replacement for NAGCA or JU, just another option for certain discussions that have a real technical background (for the most part...)

I don't think anyone said anything insulting or out of hand, and it's not like no ones asked what years 30HP's could come from before...

There's a lot of mixed information about what years are good or bad, as there are a lot of opinions. I think you've been given some, so what exactly are you so pissed off about?

Kraqa
02-13-2005, 11:33 PM
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v280/Kraqa/Thread%20pics/baddude.jpg


Not that i have to justify why i made my previouse comment but. I was under the impression that this board was for hard core ZJ/WJ tech. same mentality as Pirate but much more specialized to the jeep grand cherokee. Leta say that you went over to pirate and posted in there jeep section abotu doing a HPD30 swap. do you knwo the response you would get.......take this to the newbie forum. I could be completely out of line and if so then let the mods tell me to smarten up but i see nothing hardcore about a HPD30. It is a direct bolt in. If this thread went into detail abotu how to straighten a bent housing then yes thats justified as good tech.

If its a penny for my thoughts and i put in my two cents then where does the other penny go?

OverkillZJ
02-13-2005, 11:34 PM
Where the fuck does it say "HARDCORE TECH" on here? It's says fucking DRIVELINES. A D30 is a driveline... I was looking to start a discussing on what year would be the best overall axle.

NEWBIE shit is where does my diff vent plug into, etc.

Actually, here's the description of this forum.


This forum is designed for upper level drivetrain tech. This is NOT the place to ask about doing a Super 35 kit. That is polishing a turd! We have (or will have anyways) very thorough FAQ's and writeups, so there will be no need to post topics like "how do I make my ZJ 2wd" because that question will be answered in the FAQ's. Also, that's a dumb reason for a t-case swap. If you have a specific question on something that is not answered in one of the writeups or would like to

As far as the attitude on this forum goes... It's what we want to make it. You're not really adding to it positively at the moment. Have a beer and go hunting for a new HP30. Mine's from an 89 and everything was boltup, albeit gears.

nate
02-14-2005, 10:29 AM
Ok... I missed that little description. I just read the little sentance under the topic on the main page and this seemed like the best place to put it.

Weather this is newbie tech or not, well after reading that little paragraph, that's a pretty good definition... ok cool.

Well I took my midoll and calmed down... hahaah.
I'm not really pissed about the newbie tech thing that and the conversation between Swampy and Louisiana ZJ is what got me. Totally out of topic, should have been in PMs, email, etc. Posts about checking the axle for it being bent to make sure.. understandable, people just trying to help. The axle being bent is just another reason to swap. I want the HP, and I'm regearing... so it's a good time to do it.

I know bolting in an axle is easy stuff. Now what I don't know is what years had the different brakes and bearings. I know for sure that they aren't the same from 85 up to 01?.

I can tell the difference between the 260 and 297 shafts, so that's easy. Obviously the gears won't work.

What I'm trying to figure out is what changed on the brakes/bearings and on what years??

Yes, I can physically measure the stuff, but knowing what axle I would be best with is a bit easier than pulling axles apart at the junkyard.

BTW, since this is "newbie tech" feel free to move it there.

JeepinHank
02-14-2005, 10:36 AM
I think mine came out of an 87 XJ. Then again, I'm not too sure since the VIN # was kinda charred. (It was a burnt wreck)

Mine does have the Vac Disco. I don't think its a really big deal. It's pretty easy to swap in your existing shafts, so you'll effectively be getting the stronger 297 ujoints and the one-piece long side shaft.

The only thing you'll have to do is come up with a block off plate (I made mine out of 1/8" since I've got a 4'x4' piece of that lying around), a seal for the block off plate (permatex works for me), and an axle seal to match the new shaft on the disco side. I know its been posted before, but the NAPA P/N is 11800 (the seal is a chicago rawhide 11800 - so the NAPA number might be preceeded by "CR" or something)

Here's a link to a discussion on JU in the YJ section (its a bit more tech oriented than the ZJ/WJ section over there - so no guff about me posting up a JU link alright?)

http://www.jeepsunlimited.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=605450

They've got a few other cross references for that p/n at other places.

Honestly though - $450 is mighty steep for a HP 30. If I had to drop that much $ for a 30, I probably would have looked elsewhere. Have you looked at any other options?

Good Luck

JeepinHank
02-14-2005, 10:43 AM
Also - as far as the brakes are concerned: I believe they all have the same cast-in mounting ears. You should be able to bolt your LP 30 calipers right in. Same with the discs - they should be a direct swap. I don't know if they're the exact same - infact I know they arent. Newer discs are vented while the older ones arent.

HTH

LouisianaZJ
02-14-2005, 02:50 PM
the discs and hubs different year to year
i dont know the years

JeepinHank
02-14-2005, 03:25 PM
the discs and hubs different year to year
i dont know the years

Wouldn't you be able to swap over the hubs?

I mean, provided your hubs on the LP 30 are in pretty good shape?

BigDaveZJ
02-14-2005, 03:35 PM
the discs and hubs different year to year
i dont know the years

Wouldn't you be able to swap over the hubs?

I mean, provided your hubs on the LP 30 are in pretty good shape?

The hubs will work, but you have to match the rotors to the hub.

LouisianaZJ
02-14-2005, 03:39 PM
the discs and hubs different year to year
i dont know the years

Wouldn't you be able to swap over the hubs?

I mean, provided your hubs on the LP 30 are in pretty good shape?
yes

and yes, the rotors are matched to the hubs. the bolt pattern on the knuckles is the same for all years as far as i know

JeepinHank
02-14-2005, 04:25 PM
Whew!! I was starting to get a little worried. It was sounding like my plan was getting shot full of holes. :lol:

nate
02-14-2005, 10:11 PM
Ok... makes sense. I have a hub sitting in the garage that came off my axle and won't fit anything. I had to get a new one when I did my brakes actually, the rotor would rub the knuckle. I guess the rotor I took off was actually for an older D30. It was weird because both hubs and rotors where different. From the flange to where it bolts to the knuckle, the old hub is like 1/4" thinner.

I will just swap over all my ZJ stuff. The hubs and brakes where all done not long ago. Maybe 2,000 miles on the hubs, if that.

The $450 for the axle. Well I can get a HPD44/9" combo for $800, Detriot in the rear, 78 though, so cast wedges. I really don't want to spend the time and money to go with that setup, where the HP D30/8.8 will suffice and I already have alot of money into them.
Worst case, I can always sell my axles as a pair and recoupe some of the $$ if I decide to go bigger.

The prices are all like that up here in Alaska. Mainly because of shipping cost and high cost of living. You guys can find alot of stuff for almost free, where here I am paying close to a whole paycheck.

I have a line on one from an 86 for $250 that I will probably get.

Swamp boy
02-15-2005, 12:16 AM
Sorry for the Hijack earlier.. my HP is from an 89 and if you need a good way to straighten an axle .. I have gotten pretty good at it... :lol:

jsteves
02-15-2005, 07:34 PM
the hubs, rotors, knuckles do differ from year to year, so when I did it I used some parts from both and made it all work in the end...they will all go back together just lay it all out and see what works, at least that is what I did.

By the way, i dont know what gears you are running but the xj's with the four banger also had 4.10's in em.

nate
02-16-2005, 01:18 AM
4.88s.

So from what I gather, the hubs and rotors are sorta a matched set between years. Will my calipers bolt up or did that change between the years?

I know I can check all this out myself, but I really hate to buy the axle, bring it home and kinda be stuck with it. I have all new parts on my LP D30, so I would like to swap it all over.

Vonzipper
02-16-2005, 02:06 AM
Nate,

I'll let you know on monday, one in the works right now

Krash80
02-16-2005, 05:20 AM
Nate-

The general concensus among the ZJ/WJ gods (well actually it's just me, but i like to think highly of myself in my elite appointed position) is that this topic does not qualify as "advanced technical drivetrain discussion," and therefore i am moving it to the "newbie" forum. The reason it is not, is because anyone who is doing hardcore wheeling in a ZJ or a WJ will quickly learn that a D30, unless highly modified, is a huge pile of shit.

The first thing i'm curious about with your axle is what the specs are on your jeep. For the most part, even a light ZJ with a 4.0L is still too heavy for what those D30's were designed to handle. Now if you add a V8, a steel bumper, a winch, and then the stresses of larger tires, the axle is so pathetically inadequate it wouldn't be surprising if it cracked just from you laughing at it.

When I used to have a D30 under my ZJ, even with 31" tires i was breaking axleshafts left and right...CV's, 260's, and 297's (i actually found the CV's to be the strongest, not to mention they had a lifetime warranty through pep boys and autozone). Then when i put 33's on that axle, i started going through hubs and balljoints like crazy, and would find that i would wear out a set of hubs in sometimes just a couple of months and would find the front of my jeep looking like /----o--\ from the front. Then i got a another D30 to see if the new axle would cure the problems...nope, same problems. Put in a HP30 from an '89 XJ (non-vacuum disco), and still had the same problems with the hubs, and then blew one gearset and spun a bearing on another destroying the pinion...then i sold the axle to Matt and he's been cursed with it as well.

So...that's why everyone says that D30 stuff does not qualify as "advanced technical discussion," because a D30 is in no way an "advanced" part to a hard core wheelable ZJ. And i specify ZJ/WJ, because if you put a D30 under a CJ-2A, you could make a very hardcore rig and probably run 35's with no issues of breakage since there's a lot less weight on that rig as compared with an average ZJ. And as Kraqa mentioned earlier, Mallcrawlin was in fact created to be like the Pirate4x4 of grand cherokee tech, and in that respect we would like to keep the discussion here as technical and hardcore as possible.

The same thing goes for D35 discussion as well...Dave even states under the "what flies in this forum" post that this is NOT the place to ask about a super35 kit. Although contrary to popular opinion, i strongly disagree that the D35 is a bigger POS than the D30...my D35 lasted quite a while until i twisted a tube out of the housing, but the D30's just have too many weak moving parts and are huge wastes of steel and should've been smelted into something more useful.

So...i'll tell you this and you'll hear it more than once: toss the D30's and get a real front axle.

-Ron-

nate
02-16-2005, 09:58 AM
That's fine with moving it to "Newbie tech"... misunderstanding on my part what should be in "driveline". Perhaps I went overboard with my previous post... lack of sleep, grumpy me... you know how those things are.

To discuss the D30 strength. I know that everyone will have their opinion about this. Some people will gernade the axle with 31s, while another guy is running the same with 38s and no trouble. I don't mean this to start a pissing match, I just will take a few minutes to explain my "side" so to speak.

Alot of guys here in Alaska are running the D30, both hi and low pinion with 36 SX/TSLs/IROKs, 35 and 37 Boggers, and 38 TSLs. Most of them are on lighter rigs than my ZJ, so yes that does help. I do know of 2 busted u joints, otherwise I can't think of any other breakage.
I *hope* that my 35s will be ok on the axle where a 37 Bogger/38 TSL isn't killing it.

That being said, I do know that the D30 isn't the best axle for the application. If/when I break it, I will pull the D30/8.8, sell them and build a HP D44/9".

nathaniel
02-16-2005, 10:58 AM
From talking with Brent(AlaskaZJ) last year at GSW he was snapping 30 shafts 2 or 3 at a time when he had an arb. The 30 can last for what you want but not if its locked. KevinF hasn't broke his 30 with cv's but has broken and twisted 3 rear iron 44 shafts includng one superior shaft on 37's but its open. If you are going to go with a d30 find a bare housing in a yard and swap everything over including knuckles.


That's fine with moving it to "Newbie tech"... misunderstanding on my part what should be in "driveline". Perhaps I went overboard with my previous post... lack of sleep, grumpy me... you know how those things are.

To discuss the D30 strength. I know that everyone will have their opinion about this. Some people will gernade the axle with 31s, while another guy is running the same with 38s and no trouble. I don't mean this to start a pissing match, I just will take a few minutes to explain my "side" so to speak.

Alot of guys here in Alaska are running the D30, both hi and low pinion with 36 SX/TSLs/IROKs, 35 and 37 Boggers, and 38 TSLs. Most of them are on lighter rigs than my ZJ, so yes that does help. I do know of 2 busted u joints, otherwise I can't think of any other breakage.
I *hope* that my 35s will be ok on the axle where a 37 Bogger/38 TSL isn't killing it.

That being said, I do know that the D30 isn't the best axle for the application. If/when I break it, I will pull the D30/8.8, sell them and build a HP D44/9".

Jim311
02-16-2005, 11:13 AM
I think you'll be okay running 35s. Once you get above that you may have issues, however. I've got several friends who aren't exactly easy on their gear that are running 35s without (many) problems on their D30s.

Krash80
02-16-2005, 12:44 PM
Well to elaborate on my destruction of several D30's...
My rig was used as my daily driver and driven extremely hard on the street (ie. hard corners), and the street driving is what killed the balljoints and hubs so quickly. Fast turns in parking lots, exit/entrance ramps, and driving to work late and turning through 4-way intersections at 30mph on 33x10.5" wide tires is pretty rough on those parts. And to be fair, 2 out of 3 R&P sets i blew up were also on the street, as were a couple u-joints.

So...if you're planning on using your rig JUST for the trail, then you can probably get away w/ a D30 and some bigger rubber on a ZJ and a light foot (btw, i never locked any of my D30's...they were always wide open...and so was the throttle. :mrgreen:). But if you're gonna use your ZJ for daily driving and actually putting any mileage on that front end, you'll be going through parts rather quickly with bigger meats on it.

-Ron-

OverkillZJ
02-16-2005, 12:59 PM
I actually had decent luck with Rons old axle (the 30 at least, I'm going to avoid talking about that cursed blasted rear 44). The 30 held up just fine through my 8,000 trip this summer including GSW, Colorado, Wellsville, Houston Playground, and a lot of wide open throttle launching the front end up in the air- kinda wheeling. It was fully locked.

I didn't even break a shaft until I put the CV's in for a local trip (had the 297's out to weld the caps). I know rons drivetrain guru, but when you wheel the piss out of two 297 shafts all summer without a problem, and then put the CV's in for ONE DAY and bust them both at once on a not-so-hard obsticle, I think I'll stay away from the CV's...

I did eventually bust the gearset, but it was a Genuine (crappiest gears known to man) and had been reset. In my opinion it was never set propoerly the first time, pattern was way towards the inside. When Mark and I reset it, we moved it out a little bit by accident, so the gears were re-worn in with another pattern. Bad idea. Boom.

Honesly, If "going big" isn't in the budget (and it wasn't for me) I think a 30 / HP30 is fine if properly setup and wheeled with the knowledge that you can bust it if you want to.

I'm rebuilding the HP30 this winter with Yukon gears. Next summer will tell the tail!

nate
02-16-2005, 03:21 PM
Matt I run Genuine gears in my 8.8. I'm my 2nd set and I just ordered some Yukons. Warrantied shit is basically all they are if you ask me.

It could be Brentt did snap shafts. I only saw him a few times while he was up here and we never talked much. I do remember him breaking 1 for sure though... I think a 260 if I'm not mistaken.

The Jeep is kinda my DD, I put 4-5000 miles a year on it. I have 2 other rigs I also drive.

nate
02-18-2005, 06:01 PM
Anyone think of doing something like this:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=7954064007&catego ry=33728

Wouldn't be hard to make, though I wonder if it's worth the effort?

OverkillZJ
02-18-2005, 06:22 PM
I dunno, welding to cast = the suck

I've yet to bent a d30 housing, but I've broken every single other part in one, maybe I'm just asking for it to bend now.

DND
02-18-2005, 06:23 PM
Anyone think of doing something like this:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=7954064007&catego ry=33728

Wouldn't be hard to make, though I wonder if it's worth the effort?

I've been looking at that same auction and am considering fabbing my own. Any thoughts on how effective it would be in helping the D30 housing survive? I guess the only challenge would be welding to the cast CA mount (if you have a Disco housing) and centre section.

nate
03-18-2005, 07:00 AM
The axle I found is from an 86. Other than it has the shitty CV shafts, what else is different on it compared to the D30 I have? (00 TJ). It's once of those things where I can't really tear it apart and meaure things... they decide I want it and pay.

If it worth getting that one, or something newer for about twice the price?

nate
03-18-2005, 02:20 PM
TTT