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MassZJ
02-08-2005, 10:57 PM
I would like this to be a tech thread on swapping sixdee's into a ZJ. I have read lots over on pbb and have been to the mall a few times with my ZJ, so dont let my post count fool you. :roll: I am beginning to piece things together slowly as I work toward my goal of getting these in this year. (Dont wanna rush it ;))

I have been following Tommy's thread on his D60/14B swap and have gotten a lot of good info. I dont think I am ready for coilovers or air shocks yet, so I'll most likely be sticking with 4.5-7" coils since they have been working fine so far.

Now lets say I have a pair of D60's from a 79' F350. I would like to run H1 wheels (b/c of the crazy BS) and I know that I'll most likely need some high clearance steering arms. I will be getting the high clearance axle brackets from Clayton. Besides that I am not quite sure what else I'll need. Things such as lengthening CA's to strech the wheelbase come to mine as well as brakelines, ebrake cables, etc.

Anyone that has a ZJ with full widths let me know. I know there aren't many out there... yet.

TIA

Tommy
02-09-2005, 12:58 AM
Mass

I am running dual d60's out of a 96 Dodge. My rear is fine but my front is not the best 60 to swap in. It is low pinion and has a CAD. There are ways to get around the CAD and convert to Manual hubs but I am still stuck with a low pinion front diff. I believe my rear is pushed back about 3 or 4 " and the front forward a couple as well.

Kraqa
02-09-2005, 01:06 AM
OR

you could try going to the right forum" IE" write-up's and post OR perhaps scrole down a tad and you'll see my write up complete with pics, detailed information and even a disk break swap on a axle that is almost identical to a d60 with the exception of a few parts.

Kraqa
02-09-2005, 01:09 AM
PS



i hope you don't plan on runnign 60's with SA's there was no mention of your current setup.

MassZJ
02-09-2005, 07:42 AM
Thanks Kraqa, I'll check it out. Currently running LA's w/35's. Looking to go to 38's.

Wasnt sure where to post this, please move it if it is in the wrong spot. :oops:

MaineZJ
02-09-2005, 08:18 AM
MassZJ:
http://www.off-road.com/hummer/trips/ftr-trailride/images/ftr-7.jpg

Tommy
02-09-2005, 10:29 AM
I am sure you have seen this before, but I will post it anyways.

http://www.pirate4x4.com/tech/billavista/60_front/index.html

MassZJ
02-09-2005, 11:10 AM
I am sure you have seen this before, but I will post it anyways.

http://www.pirate4x4.com/tech/billavista/60_front/index.html

Yeah, I've been reading that for awhile now. I think it's the best writeup on the net for 60's. Tons of info anyway.

RufftyTuffty
02-09-2005, 12:51 PM
I'll take some pics in daylight for ya...and answer any Q's on them...if that will help.

We managed to get an custom 61" wide kingpin under my heep.

~Mike

servouxh
02-09-2005, 11:25 PM
I am in the process of putting a front D60 KP out of an 85 F350 and a custom 14-bolt under mine. I have Kevin's adjustable long arms but may switch to Claytons or those other ones with the intigrated belly skid. Not sure yet. I should have the 14-bolt next weekend and the 60 will be done a few weeks after that. I am also planning on 38s. There are more grands on full widths than you might think.

AprilzWarrior
02-10-2005, 02:06 AM
I am in the process of putting a front D60 KP out of an 85 F350 and a custom 14-bolt under mine. I have Kevin's adjustable long arms but may switch to Claytons or those other ones with the intigrated belly skid. Not sure yet. I should have the 14-bolt next weekend and the 60 will be done a few weeks after that. I am also planning on 38s. There are more grands on full widths than you might think.

You have kevins and are switching to Claytons ?



AW

gearhead313
02-10-2005, 11:21 AM
Im still slowly building mine... 14b rear, 79 HP60 front.. but im building all my own links. If you already have kevin's, don't just buy another kit, build them yourself, to your specs.

MassZJ
06-13-2005, 09:23 PM
hey rufftytuffy any pix?

thinking more and more about coils or coil overs...

Cue-Ball
06-14-2005, 10:25 AM
I am in the process of putting a front D60 KP out of an 85 F350 and a custom 14-bolt under mine. I have Kevin's adjustable long arms but may switch to Claytons or those other ones with the intigrated belly skid. Not sure yet. I should have the 14-bolt next weekend and the 60 will be done a few weeks after that. I am also planning on 38s. There are more grands on full widths than you might think.

You have kevins and are switching to Claytons ?



AW

I was wondering who would be the first to make that comment :mrgreen:

ROKN ZJ
06-14-2005, 11:25 AM
If you go hydro, don't run hi-steer.

OverkillZJ
06-14-2005, 11:47 AM
If you go hydro, don't run hi-steer.\

Why's that?

ROKN ZJ
06-14-2005, 02:49 PM
If you go hydro, don't run hi-steer.\

Why's that?

You'll constantly break knuckles unless you purchase blingy $$$ knuckles. But in myopinion it's not that big of a deal to have hi-steer. Just set up your ram to pull off the stock steering location.

MassZJ
06-14-2005, 07:53 PM
Thanks for the info guys.

Since you brought up steering, do you think hydro assist would be enough for 38's? Any help would be great. :drinkers:

ROKN ZJ
06-15-2005, 12:56 AM
Thanks for the info guys.

Since you brought up steering, do you think hydro assist would be enough for 38's? Any help would be great. :drinkers:

I think there was a steering thread you might try searching for. But in my opinion if you're not goig to drive it around town or tp/from the trails then just go full hydro. You'll have more options in my opinion, and not have to worry about your steering box breaking off.

Cody
06-15-2005, 01:08 AM
Hal, is it possible to go full hydro and still have it managable for high speed baja style driving?

Cody

ROKN ZJ
06-15-2005, 10:52 AM
Hal, is it possible to go full hydro and still have it managable for high speed baja style driving?

Cody

Sure, it just depends on how fast your steering is. Some buggies have their hydro at something crazy like 1.5 turns lock to lock. IMO that's too fast for baja because you'd easily over correct. If you went with 3-4 turns lock to lock it wouldn't be much different than what you have now.

Hal

Kraqa
06-15-2005, 02:28 PM
you can set your hydro assist to work very well with any size tire, and loose the threat of tearing your stearing box off.

the most common hydro assist ram is 1.5" ram. it is fast and you do not loose any stearing response in most aplications. although i woudl only run that for 36 maybe 37" tires max (depending on tire mass) anymore and your stearing box starts to have to work hard again. if you want ot run hydro assist for 38 i woudl go with a 2" ram more then enough power but your stearing al low speed might seem slugish. for off road i doubt you would notice the drifence. but changing lanes and in parking lots you might notice some lag. This can be corrected by getting a high flow pump, but if your goign to buy a new pump you might aswell go full hydro expecially with a return to center orbital valve.

Cody
06-15-2005, 02:35 PM
I'm just thinkin for my future rig I would like full hydro, but I like to go fast and I don't want to give that up. If I can make it work for hi-speed baja rallying then I'd go full hydro, otherwise i'll figure out some sort of beefy hi-flow hydro assist stuff.

Cody

MassZJ
06-15-2005, 06:31 PM
I'll do some searching tonight to find that steering thread Hal.

My goal is to have the rig still street able, so I can drive it to and from the trail and also that is strong enough to handle 38" tires. I have already changed out my steering box with a PSC one about a year ago along with the PS pump and smaller pulley. If I can reuse any of that it would be great, but if I need to beef it up then that’s fine too.

I know there are a few of you guys running tires that big and appreciate any feedback you have. I'll admit I am a noob when it comes to the steering. :prayer:

MassZJ
06-15-2005, 06:35 PM
On a side note, does anyone know if the 78-79 ford 4 piston calipers will work on a 88-91 that has the 2 piston calipers?

KevinF
07-05-2005, 11:42 PM
I am in the process of putting a front D60 KP out of an 85 F350 and a custom 14-bolt under mine. I have Kevin's adjustable long arms but may switch to Claytons or those other ones with the intigrated belly skid. Not sure yet. I should have the 14-bolt next weekend and the 60 will be done a few weeks after that. I am also planning on 38s. There are more grands on full widths than you might think.

You have kevins and are switching to Claytons ?



AW

I was wondering who would be the first to make that comment :mrgreen:

AW has every right to make a snide comment, Dirk, since he had trouble with an install using my parts. It was his labor and his frustration. My question is what exactly gives *YOU* the right? Have I not treated you with respect, Dirk? Have I not gone out of my way for you, even selling you your last order of sway bar bushings below my cost and not asking for the remainder to break even when you ordered them *without* the Addco bar from my Addco bar page on my website?? Never mind the fact that you didn't offer to make up the few dollars out of my pocket after you found out that I did you a favor and didn't return your payment and tell you that the button was only for people buying the Addco bar in the same transaction, but have I held a grudge toward you, even after you getting your facts wrong and blindly regurgitating what you thought you heard, spreading incorrect information in an attempt to let everyone know about how horrible my long arm system might have been? What gives? Why is it that you take opportunities like this to make beef with me, Dirk, even after we shared dinner together? Is it only to kiss Jerod's ass? WTF is your deal, anyway??!! Did I wrong you in a past life? What gives with you? Do you think people like you more when you make fun of someone? Were you the "bully" in elementary school, Dirk? What exactly IS your motivation to act like such a little bitch when my name pops up in a thread? WTF is your beef? Can we be done with this once and for all, or are you going to continue being an ASSHOLE when my name is mentioned after the friendship, respect, tolerance and temperance that I've offered you in attempting to maintain being a good-hearted person?

Kevin

Cue-Ball
07-06-2005, 10:20 AM
Kevin,

PM sent.

Dirk

chadjans
07-07-2005, 12:41 AM
Hal, is it possible to go full hydro and still have it managable for high speed baja style driving?

Cody

IMHO no.

chadjans
07-07-2005, 12:51 AM
anyone know what the differential type column mean in this page: http://www.pirate4x4.com/tech/billavista/60_front/dana60bom.html ?

Chad

MassZJ
07-23-2005, 08:59 AM
nope


anyone know what the differential type column mean in this page: http://www.pirate4x4.com/tech/billavista/60_front/dana60bom.html ?

Chad

MassZJ
07-23-2005, 09:06 AM
I have been doing a lot of searching and reading lately to try and figure out what I need to do for steering. I know there are a lot of places that make hi steer arms, but not many will work with H1 wheels with the factory bs. OTT's will do the trick, but I havent been able to get a hold of them by phone or email. Can anyone else recommend a quality hi steer arm for my application? :smt100

MassZJ
07-25-2005, 10:32 PM
Got some work done today. Finished up cutting all the brackets off both axles. Did some more cleaning and sandblasting tonight. I think :fingerscrossed: they should be both back together by the end of the week.

D60 torn down and cleaned up.
http://www.fototime.com/{6331BADD-277A-4266-BD69-78F948F93DE6}/picture.JPG

Hubs rebuilt with new bearings, seals, rotors. Knuckles sand blasted and primed.
http://www.fototime.com/{E69B26F3-CD10-45E1-B0A7-AF793DAFD19A}/picture.JPG

14B torn down, cleaned up. Prepping for drum to disc brake conversion.
http://www.fototime.com/{9BC34FCA-4AFE-451B-871D-93AB576E36CC}/picture.JPG

AprilzWarrior
08-06-2005, 10:22 PM
AW has every right to make a snide comment, Dirk, since he had trouble with an install using my parts. It was his labor and his frustration. My question is what exactly gives *YOU* the right? Have I not treated you with respect, Dirk? Have I not gone out of my way for you, even selling you your last order of sway bar bushings below my cost and not asking for the remainder to break even when you ordered them *without* the Addco bar from my Addco bar page on my website?? Never mind the fact that you didn't offer to make up the few dollars out of my pocket after you found out that I did you a favor and didn't return your payment and tell you that the button was only for people buying the Addco bar in the same transaction, but have I held a grudge toward you, even after you getting your facts wrong and blindly regurgitating what you thought you heard, spreading incorrect information in an attempt to let everyone know about how horrible my long arm system might have been? What gives? Why is it that you take opportunities like this to make beef with me, Dirk, even after we shared dinner together? Is it only to kiss Jerod's ass? WTF is your deal, anyway??!! Did I wrong you in a past life? What gives with you? Do you think people like you more when you make fun of someone? Were you the "bully" in elementary school, Dirk? What exactly IS your motivation to act like such a little bitch when my name pops up in a thread? WTF is your beef? Can we be done with this once and for all, or are you going to continue being an ASSHOLE when my name is mentioned after the friendship, respect, tolerance and temperance that I've offered you in attempting to maintain being a good-hearted person?

Kevin



Kevin...
I guess I missed this thread till today. Take my comment for face value, I was not being snide. It was a legit question, I want to know why/what for's, experience is everything to me, and I wanted his opinion and reasoning nothing more than that. I was not knocking ya.



As for Mass' axles, boy those are SWEET. Im looking for a 60 too... just waiting...

MassZJ
09-01-2005, 11:42 PM
D60 back from Clayton's with the high clearance brackets, rebuilt kingpins, and POR15'd
http://www.fototime.com/{CF5A1F50-35B4-452F-8623-A2E4E1DE2B00}/picture.JPG

14B with rear truss and high clearance brackets POR15'd
http://www.fototime.com/{35F1D2E0-56A6-4836-AC31-972045A2A35B}/picture.JPG

Got a bit closer tonight as the 8.8 came out and the 14b slid in. I think it's pretty strange, but it looks like the stock ZJ driveshaft is the exact length needed to bolt up to it. This will be temporary of course, but thought that was pretty sweet.
http://www.fototime.com/{8F0D2175-2B49-48DA-8A94-B751ABAA2A64}/picture.JPG

Maybe i'll have some time to get the 60 under by this weekend. :partyman:

Kraqa
09-01-2005, 11:57 PM
looks good. al shinny and new....ahh...i remember those days.

i'm jelouse of your 60 front.

MassZJ
09-05-2005, 04:43 PM
thanks kraqa, it's starting to come together. still lots to do.
http://www.fototime.com/{AEE31BD5-43F6-4204-B2BD-C4EC7592D3AD}/picture.JPG
:screwy:
http://www.fototime.com/{B624C5B7-626A-4508-B5AA-9D6D2D4A1953}/picture.JPG

ATL ZJ
09-05-2005, 05:46 PM
Looking very nice. What gears you going with?

MassZJ
09-05-2005, 06:33 PM
5.13's... lowest i could go on the 14b

MassZJ
09-18-2005, 12:46 AM
gonna be a tad wider than I had thought...

http://www.fototime.com/{1DA81B91-0673-465E-8A3A-78E7D24F2D65}/picture.JPG

Kraqa
09-18-2005, 11:31 AM
welcome to my world. wide is great. you will LOVE the stability.

MaineZJ
09-18-2005, 02:46 PM
bet Dom knows some D60 arms that'll work, or RockDog4x4 could make some.

MassZJ
09-19-2005, 11:10 PM
bet Dom knows some D60 arms that'll work, or RockDog4x4 could make some.

for steering? I just ordered some up from Trevor at WFO.

Cody
09-24-2005, 08:27 PM
lol, and I would say wide sucks balls. different strokes for different folks.

my next build will be about 75" outside to outside. that ought to be more manageable.

Cody

Cue-Ball
09-24-2005, 09:18 PM
BAD ASS man, simply BAD ASS

MaineZJ
09-24-2005, 09:24 PM
lol, and I would say wide sucks balls. different strokes for different folks.


east coast vs west coast

MassZJ
09-24-2005, 09:45 PM
Not a lot of tech, but all the CA's got painted up today. Putting in m/c, booster, and CA's tommorow. Steering with be in Tuesday, and tires following that. Cant wait! Pics to come...

Kraqa
09-26-2005, 06:47 PM
for where i wheel wide is good. very good. they both have there up sides.

OverkillZJ
09-26-2005, 07:43 PM
Rock, I love Clayts high clearence brackets. I'll need to copy the design when 60's come along as next winters project ;)

NOW GET RID OF YOUR JU STICKER!

MassZJ
09-26-2005, 09:50 PM
Rock, I love Clayts high clearence brackets. I'll need to copy the design when 60's come along as next winters project ;)

NOW GET RID OF YOUR JU STICKER!

Ha, the JU sticker... I checked out their site the other day (after about a year away) just too see if it had gotten as bad as I have heard... well you guys were right, that place really does suck. As far as the eye could see were newb upon newb posts. That'll be coming off soon.

Oh, and for some tech, coils and shocks back in. Gotta measurement on the trackbar so I can get it cut and welded tomorrow. The JKS adj TB needs to be shortened 2" to work with the high clearance bracket.

MassZJ
09-28-2005, 06:52 PM
So yesterday the steering arrived from WFO. Got the histeer arms to clear the H1 wheels, 1.5" DOM TR and DL. I am going to have to make a new trackbar and bracket b/c the JKS one looks alittle weak now. Also I think I'll have some bump steer b/c the trackbar mount is a few inches lower and wont be parallel with the DL.

Bling LA's
http://www.fototime.com/{0EA2A107-13BC-4D3E-AABD-5398F03CB74B}/picture.JPG

Good amount of clearance ~0.75"
http://www.fototime.com/{5C6798BA-19E2-4735-AB61-DF59D45A81E1}/picture.JPG

Quick alignment
http://www.fototime.com/{E8C9B68B-9602-4602-B63C-88FEA80428E3}/picture.JPG

Kraqa
09-28-2005, 06:56 PM
that ES2233L will make your stearing start to frown. i'v gone through 4 now. they are just not meant to kae the abuse.

ATL ZJ
09-28-2005, 07:51 PM
that ES2233L will make your stearing start to frown. i'v gone through 4 now. they are just not meant to kae the abuse.

What would you recommend then?

MassZJ
10-03-2005, 12:50 AM
What would you recommend then?
x2.

servouxh
10-05-2005, 08:32 PM
MassZJ how is your driver's side mount welded? I can't really see in any of the pics. I have a 60 out of a mid 80s F350 and there is almost no axle tube on that side. Is it welded to the cast spring perch? If I have to do that is it ok to weld to the cast if the gears are already installed?

MassZJ
10-05-2005, 09:14 PM
The left and right inner c's were cut off and swapped in order to recenter the diff. The uca mount on the drivers side is welded to the cast:
http://www.fototime.com/{1300E247-C2AB-48EF-81E0-1923143BDD74}/picture.JPG
I would remove the carrier before welding that


MassZJ how is your driver's side mount welded? I can't really see in any of the pics. I have a 60 out of a mid 80s F350 and there is almost no axle tube on that side. Is it welded to the cast spring perch? If I have to do that is it ok to weld to the cast if the gears are already installed?

servouxh
10-05-2005, 09:58 PM
Thanks for the info MassZJ.

Not to hijack or beat a dead horse but I saw that my post about switching from the Kevin's kit caused some friction. I ended up using his kit and it worked great. If it matters.

Kraqa
10-06-2005, 11:38 AM
I'm still lookign for a suitable alternative. The only thing i can see in my MOOG book is a full tie rod from a f350. it is F350, its like 1-1/8" solid stock with 1-1/8" 18 TPI rod ends. The problem with the ES2233L is that it is soo long and week. your tie rod is way more rigid then that solid TRE. Normally yoru whoel steering system with a solid stock bar can have a bit of flex. with hollow to solid the hollow section does not flex. so all the force is put onto the weekest part......the ES2233L.

I'l keep lookign see what i can find, i'l post up parts numbers tonight when i can get to it.

MassZJ
10-08-2005, 07:47 AM
After installing the steering the other day, I can see that the ES2233L is the weakest link now (besides the steering box ripping out). How about one of those cheezy gussets across the draglink hole similar to how PSC does it? It would have to be welded onto the tie rod, so you would only be able to adjust one side, and when it blows out could be a pita to chage again.

Cue-Ball
10-08-2005, 10:41 AM
You know a gusset might just work.

Kraqa
10-08-2005, 01:08 PM
ya you knwo i think yoru right a gusset would probably do the trick. Thar ot just make is UBER week from the heat. I can't find my MOOG book.

MassZJ
10-08-2005, 02:03 PM
well now i have a clearance issue with the JKS trackbar hitting the tie rod. guess it's time for a new one.

Kraqa
10-08-2005, 02:06 PM
welcome to the wonderfull world of custom axle swaps.

MassZJ
10-10-2005, 09:06 AM
Alittle too close:
http://www.fototime.com/{17417BB6-CF53-44E7-ACCE-9D095773BD25}/picture.JPG

Got bumpsteer?
http://www.fototime.com/{6AFC85A0-FFB4-4D17-B25F-313DF9D3942D}/picture.JPG

MassZJ
11-06-2005, 06:44 PM
finally got to drive it around and what do ya know, i have a shit ton of death wobble over 25mph. sucks b/c I never experianced it before, but now i see why people get all freaked out when it happens. anyway here is a shameless parking lot pic.
http://www.fototime.com/{4DDBA685-88A5-47C6-B61E-BF30562A3DF6}/picture.JPG

Kraqa
11-06-2005, 11:56 PM
my stearing is almost as close. Try runnign a stearing stabilizer. with tires that large they are hard to balance and cause DW ALOT. mine was undrivable. unlit i put a SS on.

MassZJ
11-10-2005, 12:29 AM
a lot of guys dont have to run SS if their junk is setup right. i found my caster to be wayyy off and will be adjusting it on friday.

she doesnt have 4wd yet, so i figured this was the best i could do with the old junkbox
http://www.fototime.com/{E5FC93B6-926D-463C-9AC3-5F53BF8446C4}/picture.JPG

OverkillZJ
11-10-2005, 12:32 AM
Steering Stablizers are for pussy's!

Smooth at 110 with 35's and no SS :-D

OverkillZJ
11-10-2005, 12:32 AM
Mass.... BLING BLING flex!

Kraqa
11-10-2005, 11:18 AM
Mass.... BLING BLING flex!

you dont' have egg shaped 38" swampers with a bent rim. :flipoff2:

Cody
11-10-2005, 11:29 AM
I don't have a SS either. at 3500 rpms in high range, 4.10's and full 37's, no DW. I don't know how fast that is though--someone do the math for me :D

actually, to be totally honest, the few blocks I've driven on pavement I can tell how unmanagable it would be. Not exactly death wobble, but the tires wobble and are really unbalanced. I never notice it on dirt roads though so it's cool.

kick ass ZJ mass. I wish I had that front end :(

Cody

MassZJ
04-01-2006, 08:50 AM
Where's the beef??? D60 vs D30 stub shafts :D
http://www.fototime.com/{86D4CD4B-32CB-4C56-ACC4-ECC0E2A0B374}/picture.JPG

MassZJ
05-13-2006, 09:53 PM
Well I ended up starting over from scratch by selling all the steering except for the WFO arms. Had Clayton Offroad fab up a new draglink, tierod, and bracket for hydro assist using all HEIM joints. TR is now under the steering arms instead of on top changing the geometery enough to just about eliminate bump steer. Very happy with this setup and it feels much tighter and controlled vs. the old setup. I sent my old PSC steering box back to them to get it rebuilt and ported for the hydro assist and was sent a new box ready to go within two weeks for under $200.