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View Full Version : al44 vs. fe44 vs. 8.8



msvance
01-31-2005, 04:40 PM
I posted this over on nagca in a discussion. I just thought I would post the info I have gathered over here as well. This has been beat to death before, but the pro's of the al44 and actual measurements have never been documented in these discussions (from what I have found). Enjoy!


for documentation purposes, here is a link to a good thread on pirate4x4 comparing the differences between the d44 and 8.8 http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=24854&highlight=dana+ford.

to summarize it all

Comparing the Al44 to the Fe44

Pros
Thicker ring Gear - How Much? Measurements?
Bigger Pinion Gear - How Much? Measurements? Mentioned above that it's comparable to D60. If so, 1.675" vs. 1.375"
Bigger Axle shafts - 1.375" necked down to 1.25" vs. 1.19"
Already Under the Vehicle

Cons
Aluminum Centersection & Pressed in tubes - Potnetial for Shorter Carrier & Pinion Bearing Life (mine were replaced at 120K and was used hard), Potential for Spun Tubes/Stress Cracks (not sure if it's really common or not), Prone to Gauging from contact w/ Rocks
C-Clipped
Limited Lockers - Factory LS and Lincoln/miller/etc.
Gears lower than 4.56 not available
No "Super" kit that I am aware of

Both
30 spline
8.5" Ring Gear

Comparing the Al44 to the 8.8

Pros
Already Under Your vehicle
Exact Width

Cons
Smaller Ring Gear 8.5" vs. 8.8"
Smaller Axle Shaft Diameter at narrowest point 1.25" vs. 1.32" (axle shaft main diameter may actually be larger)
30 spline vs. 31 spline
Limited Lockers
Gears lower than 4.56 not available
No "Super" kit that I am aware of

Both
C-Clip
Possibly same Pinion Shaft Size if statement above is true???

In summary, it appears that the Al44 is a much better axle than most people give it credit for. If you are ok with the factory limited slip or a welded carrier and don't need gears lower than 4.56, then the data inidicates little incentive to swap for an fe44 or even 8.8 for that matter. It has been proven in tests and the real world that the 8.8 is stronger than the fe44 but would be interesting to see the #'s against the AL44 with it's larger pinion shaft size, thicker ring gear and larger axle shaft diameter (compared to the fe44). I can't imagine there would be a difference worth going through the swap for (if your ok with the factors listed above).

The biggest improvement opportunity for the Al44 would be a brace that adresses issues associated with the tubes pressed in to the aluminum centersection. This should be fairly cheap and easy. The link I posted above has a product that would adress this issue for $200 and also protects the driveshaft and would protect against gauging the cetnersection. Definitely worth checking out if planning to keep the Al44. for another $200 you can add their torqu arm which is an interesting concept as well.

My opinon is that if you're going to swap axles go with a 9", 60 or 14B

MaineZJ
01-31-2005, 05:10 PM
My opinon is that if you're going to swap axles go with a 9", 60 or 14B

Most of the time when people swap in an 8.8, a 60 or 14FF aren't feasible.
A 8.8 is basically a metric 9

OverkillZJ
01-31-2005, 05:15 PM
I know the AL44 is underated... but you can't polish a turd none the less. I'll keep my fe44, thanks!

I think 8.8 is the best swap for most folks staying with a reasonable tire size though.

Good tech.

matts96zj
01-31-2005, 05:51 PM
ya know, I've asked about putting an ALD44 under my rig & got FLAMED for it!!

Nordic1
01-31-2005, 06:37 PM
ya know, I've asked about putting an ALD44 under my rig & got FLAMED for it!!

YES YOU DID!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! lol actually I could care less and I don't remember the thread so it's all good

If I could have done it again, I would have done a 9" or a 60" and an hp44 in the front. Not so much for the full-width part but more-so for the 44knuckles which are much stronger than 30 knuckles. At this point, my rig would look silly if I were to throw an hp44 at full wifth in front and keep my 8.8 in back. However if you're not planning on going big, hp/lp30 and an 8.8 works out fine.

msvance
01-31-2005, 07:28 PM
MaineZJ - I'll agree that 8.8's may be close to a 9", but there is even more beef to add to a 9" plus the 9" axle are the right width! going from a fe44 to a 8.8 has some benefit. going from a 8.8 to a 9" has some benefit, but going from an fe44 to a 9" has a significant benefit. it's always the same thing a is not significantly different than b and b is not significantly different than c, but a is significantly different from c. Just trying to provide some tech on the differences since in many circumstances people may be swapping to 8.8's blindly and wasting money that they could be using for bigger/better things (front 44/d60, rear 9", sawzall, plasma cutter, welder, bender ,etc.)

Overkill - to each their own, but spending a few bucks to weld up the axle you already have doesn't really seem like polishing a turd to me. definitely makes a lot more sense than going through the bs of an axle swap (unless you are doing it "right" w/ a 9", d60, etc) or worse, swapping to an inferior strength axle :D (just giving you shit. i'm sure you swapped from a d35)

Matt - If i was going through the hassle of an axle swap, i wouldn't really choose the al44, but for those that already have it, just trying to provide some tech so people can make logical decisions instead of following a bandwagon

GOR - again, if you're not going big, why not keep the al44 unless you are ditching a d35

later.

Jim311
01-31-2005, 10:19 PM
Yeah, if you're going to the hassle of doing an axle swap there are definitely much better options than the 44A. Either way, if this aluminum axle is so strong, I'd imagine there would be a better aftermarket for it. Wasn't Auburn testing a locker for it, but eventually killed the project because of bad results? The only reason I wanted an 8.8 was the availability of spare parts and an awesome aftermarket. Hell, I'm not even exactly sure where I'd find a limited slip for my 44A, much less gears that won't cost me an arm or a leg. I didn't want to deal with the hassle of the entire axle swap, but I found an 8.8 for 200 bucks and couldn't pass up the deal. I hope you're right about the strength and underrated nature of the 44A... it would save me a lot of time and effort.

OverkillZJ
01-31-2005, 11:25 PM
Overkill - to each their own, but spending a few bucks to weld up the axle you already have doesn't really seem like polishing a turd to me. definitely makes a lot more sense than going through the bs of an axle swap (unless you are doing it "right" w/ a 9", d60, etc) or worse, swapping to an inferior strength axle :D (just giving you shit. i'm sure you swapped from a d35)


No, I had an AL44. I took it out, cut it up into itsy bitsy pieces, and threw that POS in the trash.

Between a c-clipped unreliable axle which burns through bearings faster than a dress comes off on prom night, and a real 44, I'll take the real 44.

It was available, is plenty strong for what I'm doing, and hell, takes a Detroit quite nicely. Not to mention superior shafts and 4.56 gears without polishing a turd.

60's? Nice, but too heavy and wide for my current application.


I'd like to think I did it right for my needs, thanks.

msvance
02-01-2005, 12:08 AM
I guess i can only speak for my ZJ, but i just replaced my bearings at ~120K miles! My ZJ was used as the tow rig for my CJ for the last 4 years. It towed from WI to Moab, UT 2 times, WI to Tellico, NC 2-3x, Attica, IN 2-3x and countless other "local" trips as well along with a few trips of it's own. I wouldn't really call that burning through bearings and I can't imagine anything being harder on a rear axle than towing a big ass jeep on a heavy ass trailer, when the tow rig itself is a ZJ w/ 33's.

Overkill - If you had to replace bearings more frequently or had other issues, I would be interested in that TECH.

Again, I justed wanted to add some information so people could make more informed decisions than just assuming what they have is "junk" because people say it is. The Al44 definitely is not the end all. I'll have a 9" one of these days myself, but hopefully not any time soon. We'll see...

OverkillZJ
02-01-2005, 12:48 AM
Like I said, you found some good information. From experience on my and friends ZJ's, I'll steer clear, and continue suggesting others steer clear of the AL 44, especially when looking to go over 33's and regear.

Lincoln locking a c clipped axle.. I know a lot of people do it, but I'll still point and laugh when it snaps on the trail and the break line rips or the calipers damaged (if disc).

Just a matter of opinion on the AL44. I consider every mod to be an (bad) investment in the Jeep, and would rather choose to build it with components that have parts availbable.

EDIT: How much did it cost you to replace the bearings on the AL44? Time vs. money.

I have a feeling a built-to-go 8.8 is in a similar price range.

Nordic1
02-01-2005, 02:05 AM
GOR - again, if you're not going big, why not keep the al44 unless you are ditching a d35

Two words... locker options

msvance
02-01-2005, 12:42 PM
all very good points!

the cost of replacing the bearings, was the cost of bearings and new diff oil, so maybe $100, but I can't really remember. it did take time and was irratating, so I won't take that away from it.

robselina
02-01-2005, 01:54 PM
just one comment - I've seen more than a few posts here talking about swapping a D44al as not worth the 'hastle'. But it's a fawkin bolt in axle for those of us with the D35, and considering the PITA my 8.8 has been so far, I'd certainly rather truss the D44al and weld it up and call it a day if I were starting over and could find one cheap....

Jim311
02-01-2005, 02:10 PM
just one comment - I've seen more than a few posts here talking about swapping a D44al as not worth the 'hastle'. But it's a fawkin bolt in axle for those of us with the D35, and considering the PITA my 8.8 has been so far, I'd certainly rather truss the D44al and weld it up and call it a day if I were starting over and could find one cheap....


Yeah, I was thinking about that. Couldn't be but so hard. At least you wouldn't be breaking shafts in parking lots and shit :o

northgazj
02-01-2005, 08:08 PM
Does anyone know if Aussie locker is still working on a model for the 44A? If so, your locker options just doubled! :twisted:

OverkillZJ
02-02-2005, 12:45 AM
Does anyone know if Aussie locker is still working on a model for the 44A? If so, your locker options just doubled! :twisted:

I think Aussie is the company that had one prototyped, but wasn't happy with the results and scrapped the entire project. No company has been able to produce one yet, the AL44 doesn't seem to like it for whatever reason.

And how have options doubled? THere is no other option that I know of...

northgazj
02-02-2005, 08:01 PM
I was counting the factory limited slip as 1, aussie as 2, ( 2 is twice as many as 1 :) ) therefore doubling the options, however I do realize that the factory ls is not a locker.

Jim311
02-02-2005, 09:44 PM
Unless you count the Lincoln Locker as an option 8)