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Timzjatl
01-12-2005, 09:41 AM
I have never posted these, and just retrieved the pics from my camera.
Of particular interest may be my newest mod, which included steering, dovetailing the front, re-locating the front axle 6" forward, and all of the other modifications neccessary to make this happen.
As background, I hated my previous steering setup, as the stock box didn't have enough power to turn the 36s sometimes. Lightening the rig up helped some, but not enough, so I went to the junkyard searching. I knew what I really wanted was a J20 box, but those are pretty hard to come by. I searched around, and found this box, in a 1976 Ford Van.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v234/Timzjatl/ZJ%20Buildup/P1010030.jpg
here it is next to the stock box
It had all the telltale measurements of a J20 box, but had one problem. the pitman arm faces forward instead of backward....
In order to accomodate the 4th bolt, I built up the frame rail, and bolted the bad boy in:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v234/Timzjatl/ZJ%20Buildup/P1010035.jpg
I had to cut off the factory o-ring ends on the ZJ power steering lines and flare them to meet the ford box.
The problem with the pitman arm facing forward is that the axle must ideally be moved forward as well in order to get things back in line. I moved the frame end mounts forward by extending my subframe. This requires the wheel wells be extended all the way forward to clear the tires. I decided at the same time to take some width out of the front clip and hood. This also required re-locating the battery, and replacing the airbox with a conical filter.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v234/Timzjatl/ZJ%20Buildup/P1010045.jpg
Front Finished
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v234/Timzjatl/ZJ%20Buildup/P1010044.jpg
Side, showing approach angle
http://photobucket.com/albums/v234/Timzjatl/ZJ%20Buildup/P1010049.jpg
I haven't had it on the trail yet, but the steering is much better, and the added length and better front to rear balance is noticeably better. I don't have time to re-size and post the pics right now, but maybe later. For now, here's the album:
http://photobucket.com/albums/v234/Timzjatl/ZJ%20Buildup/
It includes pics from the beginning of the chop, to the steering project.
Enjoy

nate
01-12-2005, 10:00 AM
Cool!

JeepinHank
01-12-2005, 10:10 AM
Damn Tim! You've been busy!

Lookin really good! Nice to see you around, I'll probably have some questions for you after I get a chance to look at the pics a little more closely.

Tommy
01-12-2005, 10:11 AM
Tim

Did you flip it? Dumb question, but had to ask. Looks good..

Tommy

Timzjatl
01-12-2005, 10:15 AM
Tommy-
Flip What, the steering box or the Yeep?
1. No, just ran the pitman arm forward instead of backwards
2. Yes, but that was a while ago....

MaineZJ
01-12-2005, 10:17 AM
if you really want a better junkyard steering box, find one out of a 4wd Durango
looking good
http://www.neow.net/kjp/images/durango/durango.JPG

Timzjatl
01-12-2005, 10:25 AM
Yeah, but how often do 4x4 durangos show up in the cheap cheap pull a part yards in GA.....
NEVER
Plus, you can't invert the pitman and get all of the approach angle with a Durango box. Good find though for those that want to keep the axle/steering like stock. Is the durango box the left or the right box? It appears that the left box is bigger, but only has 3 ears, which was my other problem, because I kept ripping boxes off of the frame.

ELLLLLIOTTTTT
01-12-2005, 10:31 AM
:shock: :shock: :shock: :shock:

and i still remember when this thing was in one piece

Tommy
01-12-2005, 10:35 AM
Yeah, I was refering to the jeep. Looks good.

Timzjatl
01-12-2005, 10:44 AM
:shock: :shock: :shock: :shock:

and i still remember when this thing was in one piece
It still is in one piece.... :D albeit a much different piece for sure....
:lol:

RufftyTuffty
01-12-2005, 10:55 AM
Good stuff :D

Any reason you didn't want to cut it completely off from behind the firewall and build a tube chassis?...or even a full tube chassis ;)

~Mike

Timzjatl
01-12-2005, 11:04 AM
Mike-
Cutting from the firewall back provides some troubles in keeping the whole thing tied together. It really wasn't worth the trouble to re-build the floor and unibody frame rails as well. I just replaced the rocker pannels with 3x3x1/4" tubing tied back to the subframe that has all of the suspension mounts on it, and built the cage from there up....
So far it's worked very well....
I conscidered starting over on a tube buggy, but the added costs weren't worth it.

MaineZJ
01-12-2005, 11:29 AM
left is durango box, right is an 80's waggy box.
if you keep ripping them off, run a brace to the other side of the "frame"

Timzjatl
01-12-2005, 11:52 AM
left is durango box, right is a tj box.
if you keep ripping them off, run a brace to the other side of the "frame"
That or use 4 bolts... Bracing to the other side is ok, but I still broke a box with an XJ style brace. The ears on the Ford box have more beef to them than the ZJ box as well. Does the Durango Box have the larger 3.5" bore like the J20 Box??

MaineZJ
01-12-2005, 12:11 PM
I didn't buy one - my friend did for his TJ on 35 krawlers
http://neow.net/kjp/images/durango/durnago2.JPG

Pearce
01-12-2005, 01:23 PM
Haha, who drew the hood flames? Looks bling bling with the hood pins, Nice!

chadjans
01-12-2005, 03:32 PM
Tim, why don't you just run hydro assist?

Chad

JpRngr
01-12-2005, 04:07 PM
Tim,
I take it the Ford box steers opposite of the ZJ box and that's how you're able to run the inverted pitman arm. Cause if you just inverted one on a stock box it would turn backwards.

Looks cool. Coming to GSW?

Corey

Timzjatl
01-12-2005, 04:20 PM
Tim, why don't you just run hydro assist?

Chad
Hydro assist is $. I have $30 in this box, and I got a 70 degree approach angle out of the deal. I can tap this box later if need be and run hydro

Corey-
Yup, the box steers backwards. Ask me how I found that out :lol:
I don't think I can make it out west this summer. I am planning to make Disney and Clayton OK around the end of april if you're interested in meeting half way....

chadjans
01-12-2005, 05:05 PM
Hydro assist can be done for a 100 bucks.

Chad

nate
01-12-2005, 05:22 PM
...

nate
01-12-2005, 05:27 PM
..

Timzjatl
01-12-2005, 05:37 PM
Hydro assist can be done for a 100 bucks.

Chad
Great, I'll keep that in mind when I decide to go hydro. Then I'll have the approach angle, and uber power. Really, the feel is so light now with this box that I doubt I'll need hydro til I go 38's or bigger. But that would take the challenge out of things...

Cody
01-13-2005, 04:07 AM
hydro assist is worth every penny..

Lookin good tim. That thing is UGLY!!! I love it.

Cody

ATL ZJ
01-14-2005, 04:08 PM
Looks good. That cage dwarfs those meats now though. Glad to see the steering box project worked out so well.

Timzjatl
01-14-2005, 04:35 PM
Yeha, I am thinking that I may look at a 38.5 Bogger or something for it when these wear out.... Interco makes a 38.5x11.00 that would be sweet at tellico....

ATL ZJ
01-14-2005, 05:22 PM
Yeha, I am thinking that I may look at a 38.5 Bogger or something for it when these wear out.... Interco makes a 38.5x11.00 that would be sweet at tellico....

That would be cool. Have you thought about IROKs? I guess Boggers will spank anything in the muddiest conditions (Tellico) but I hear a lot of positive things about the IROK.

Kraqa
01-15-2005, 09:11 PM
tim your makin me geliouse.

I found my DD last week just waiting for the bank to pull through and then i'm will look very similar to yours.

msvance
01-17-2005, 11:04 PM
so, did you bolt the box in at the same location? did you move the spring mounts 6" forward? did the radiator not get in the way of everything? i'm intrigued with this mod but just don't see how the steering and everything could work out up there. any pics and better explanation would be greatly appreciated.

later.

Timzjatl
01-18-2005, 10:50 AM
Steering box is in the same location. ZJ pitman arm faces forward on ford box. I re-drilled the radiator locating holes in the crossmember forward about 2 inches in the crossmember, so that the lower radiator hose will clear the pitman. The nut from the Pitman TRE just barely clears the radiator support. I re-located the spring perches and trackbar forward 5 inches or so, and outward about an inch to better line up with the ford bronco coil buckets on the D44. You can see where I welded on the trackbar mount and the front of the new coil mount in this pic, as well as the pitman barely clearing the radiator hose and cross member.
http://photobucket.com/albums/v234/Timzjatl/ZJ%20Buildup/?action=view&current=P1010047.jpg
You can see more of the coil mounts here
http://photobucket.com/albums/v234/Timzjatl/ZJ%20Buildup/?action=view&current=P1010046.jpg
I cut the spring post off, and made a plate that welded on there, the subframe rail, and a gusset in front of the new spring location, then welded the spring post in it's new home.
The biggest problem is that your wheel wells go all the way up into the headlight area to clear the tires with the axle this far forward....

msvance
01-18-2005, 03:13 PM
Absolutely perfect explanation, Thanks!

One last question, did you leave the top radiator mounts alone so it is just "slanted" a little now?

I was looking at mine several weeks back thinking of the same thing but didn't think it could all work very easily. sounds like it can with out too much issue. Thanks for this info. good reference for the future!

later

Timzjatl
01-18-2005, 04:04 PM
Yup, just left the radiator slanted. I don't see that being any problem, but you'll want to connect the bottom hose and then move the radiator forward, because it's hard to access that clamp once you move the bottom forward. Another benefit of this mod is I moved the steering stabilizer up to between the radiator support and the drag link.. much more out of the wayt.

msvance
01-18-2005, 04:59 PM
i didn't either, i just wanted to be sure. like i said, i was looking at mine the other week and thinking man that would be a bitch to move everything forward. never thought about just slanting it. simple, effective solution though! thanks again for the info. definitely will keep this on file for future reference. i really want to mess around with the departure angle next (rear cell and chop a portion of the rear off) but this stuff will be a while.............

on a side note - since you mentioned it, do you notice any benefit to the steering stabilizer? I'm running without one and have seen no ill effects on the road anyways. we're running a relatively similar set-up so it should apply. got any pics of the new mount?

thanks. later.

Timzjatl
01-18-2005, 05:37 PM
Don't have any pics, but it's basically welded to the radiator support, and the steering stabilizer is behind and paralell with the radiator support. I just welded it in last night. I drove mine without the SS with this setup original, and had some steering feedback that was kind of like mini DW. SS took care of it. Now that I don't drive at speed it might not be an issue, but the SS will help pad out the steering feedback from rocks hit on the trail...

Pearce
02-16-2005, 07:45 PM
I've been contemplating moving my f axle forward 5-6" too, but i cant justify flipping the pitman arm and running backassward steering. Cheap, yes, but driving the beast will never be the same.

I'm pretty sure his steering is better than before, so yes its not the same, its better.

Nothing really changes except the box is beefier, the axle is forward more, and the pitman arm works in the other direction, but steers the same.

JpRngr
02-17-2005, 12:24 AM
Actually, what he meant was the Ford box steers opposite or backwards of the ZJ box. So when you flip the pitman arm 180 degrees, it steers correctly when mounted on a ZJ. So now his pitman arm faces forward off the box. When you turn the steering wheel righ it goes right. Left - left.



Corey