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View Full Version : Rock Control visit 1/8/04



Cue-Ball
01-05-2005, 03:08 PM
Okay guys as most of you know Chase (goingoffroading) and I are headed up to meet with Ty at Rock Control this Sat.

Whay I would like to know is, do you have any SPECIFIC questions, or things you would like pictures of?

I do plan to drive his Jeep and will be posting a complete review of the trip shortly after we get back from the visit, but I want to make sure that I try to cover everyone's questions/concerns.

So let me know I will literally be taking up a list of things to check out so post away.

Thanks.

Nordic1
01-05-2005, 03:16 PM
I'll be taking (and hosting) ample pictures

Cue-Ball
01-05-2005, 03:42 PM
As will I, I will try to get some video clips as well.

Damn we are going to look like a couple of Japanese tourists at Disneyland with all the picture taking going on :lol:

Chase I have the addresses and will have a mapquest with me.

hoffyinaz
01-05-2005, 04:15 PM
Okay I'll ask the question what is Rock Control.
Since Chase is a mall crawler, what does Rock Control make for him?? :D

Nordic1
01-05-2005, 04:16 PM
It makes this: http://www.fototime.com/%7B743B8043-4793-49DC-AEEC-672082A8FE44%7D/picture.GIF


Rock Control (www.RockControl.com) is Ty Beede's new venture up in Chico, CA. He's built for himself (and will soon off as production) possibly the best long arm kit ever. It comes with a complete belly skid, double triangulated rear suspension and radius arms up front.

hoffyinaz
01-05-2005, 04:20 PM
i want two then

Nordic1
01-05-2005, 04:26 PM
haha here's some of the pics on ty's web-site
http://www.rockcontrol.com/ZJ/350/350_t129-2991_IMG.jpg
http://www.rockcontrol.com/ZJBuggy/8-21-04/350/350_IMG_3199.jpg
http://www.rockcontrol.com/ZJBuggy/8-21-04/350/350_IMG_3197.jpg
http://www.rockcontrol.com/ZJBuggy/8-21-04/350/350_IMG_3196.jpg
http://www.rockcontrol.com/ZJBuggy/7-21-04/350/350_131-3148_IMG.jpg
http://www.rockcontrol.com/ZJBuggy/8-21-04/350/350_IMG_3190.jpg
http://www.rockcontrol.com/ZJBuggy/8-21-04/350/350_IMG_3221.jpg
http://www.rockcontrol.com/ZJBuggy/400_jeep3.jpg
:D

Cue-Ball
01-05-2005, 04:38 PM
Trust me I intend to put it through it's paces on Saturday.

ggruszynski
01-05-2005, 06:41 PM
Good deal, because I just bought a kit and am hoping to have it in the next few weeks. Had Clayton's sitting in the garage waiting for my bonus check and my axles, and then saw his work. My only concern would be with the rear triangulated link set-up. Let me know how it works for you (any axle wrap, drastic pinion angle changes, ect). Also, does his kit come with a new front x-member with tranny mount, or does it utilize the existing? Rubber bushings at frame side and JJ's at axle side? Lots of pics would be great!

Gabe

Cue-Ball
01-05-2005, 07:24 PM
Gabe,

Saw you selling your Clayton's (thought about getting them from you infact).

I plan to take as many pictures as I can, I will also ask him about your order and see how it is comming along as well.

Ty is actually really excited about me taking the Jeep for a real world test drive and really wants an objective review of it, so I am also jazzed.

Can't wait.

ggruszynski
01-05-2005, 08:17 PM
Yeah, I hope it performs as good as it looks! Love the rear set-up and the belly skid that's incorporated as well! My current skid hangs down a little more than desirable and wouldn't be good if I had to back up at an obstacle.

Gabe

Jim311
01-05-2005, 09:57 PM
I'm interested to know why he hasn't posted on this forum yet and done some of his OWN PR!

Cue-Ball
01-05-2005, 10:18 PM
Um He actually has, http://mallcrawlin.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=904&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start =15

He is NorthernZJ.

nate
01-05-2005, 11:26 PM
Ask him why it takes him forever to answer emails.
Ask him why it takes him forever to ship his stuff.
Ask him why the rear upper arms are alot shorter than the lowers
Ask him what the advantage of a XX setup verus a more simple |V| setup. XX will be interesting to adjust the axle to say the least. The skid is nice, but with it and 2 crossmembers, exhaust routing will be interesting.
Ask him why the axle truss is an additional cost when it is is needed and what axles is the truss for.
Find out what the length of the arms are, what materials he's using, etc. Pretty much anything Clayton list on his site I would consider good info.

ggruszynski
01-05-2005, 11:34 PM
The truss is an additional cost? Well, guess it may be good that I have one already on my 8.8 and he said it will work with Clayton's truss then!

nate
01-06-2005, 01:10 AM
When I talked to Ty, he said around $1400 for the kit and the truss and bracket kit would be another $200. I'm not sure what the truss alone would be. Those are very reasonable prices, compared to Clayton's a bit less.

The kit is designed quite well from the pics. I really am having a hard time finding good solid info on suspension design, but the fab work is nice. This is the first XX (double triangulated) setup I've seen under a ZJ, searched google for pics even. What's the exact name for this setup? I'd like to see some info comparing a |\/| and XX so see the pros and cons.

The problem I am having is getting Ty to answer my questions via email. I haven't called, which he suggested I do though (in Korea right now) . I know of 1 person that ordered some stuff around Thanksgiving or so and had yet to receive anything. This is with a 2-3 week build/ship timeframe.

I don't want to bash Rock Control, that's not what I'm trying to do. I am just posting my experience so far. As for me, it's a toss up between Clayton's and Rock Controls at this point. I will decide for sure after I see what the visit turns up. I'm not positive I want to be the tester for the kit.

On the site, Ty compares his kit with Clayton's. It would be interesting to have someone ride both setups to compare... 2nd opinion and all.

Cue-Ball
01-06-2005, 01:38 AM
Nate,

I will be adding each and everyone of your questions to the list.

I am not yet saying this is the system to go with, I will not be able to give the true thumbs up until after my visit.

The configuration of the rear is called "Double Triangulated" in theory it is really good but I also want to know about the different length arms and stuff.

The 8.8 I bought was out of a ZJ with Clayton's so it already has the truss welded on like yours does and Ty said it would be no problem to use it and make it work with his set up.

Honestly I have not discussed price with him that much yet so I am not sure if the truss is extra or not, I agree it seems odd to have that be an extra charge when it is required.

I will keep you posted early next week.

ggruszynski
01-06-2005, 01:41 AM
I just sent him an e-mail about the truss. I already have Clayton's truss on my 8.8 as well, so we'll see what he says. He stated earlier that mine will ship mid to late January, so we'll see how it goes. He said he had to help with an install in the Bay area.

Gabe

nate
01-06-2005, 01:54 AM
Thanks Cueball.

I hope Ty can understand that I am not trying to slam his business, maybe I am being too critical?

Nordic1
01-06-2005, 02:00 AM
Last I talked to Ty, he was having a problem getting product out the door because his water-jet people kinda screwed him. If I understand the situation correctly, he sends stuff to be cut by a water-jet facility. That facility also does cutting for big businesses. So when I company comes in with a big order, Ty's order of getting a few things cut gets moved aside till the big order is finished.

nmzj
01-06-2005, 10:31 AM
This is the first XX (double triangulated) setup I've seen under a ZJ, searched google for pics even. What's the exact name for this setup? I'd like to see some info comparing a |\/| and XX so see the pros and cons.



Nate,

Cody has run the double triangulated rear setup for over a year. Performs real nice. The biggest benifit that I see is that it minimizes rear stear if set up properly.

Jason

Cody
01-06-2005, 11:28 PM
2 years ;)

I'm such a pioneer :D

So, in that flex picture, why are they hanging on the side of the jeep? If that jeep is anywhere near flopping over, then that suspension needs some serious fine tuning.

But, other than that, the construction looks good. I hope the lowers are beef. And by beef I don't mean chincy little 1/4 walled junk. :D
Cody

Nordic1
01-07-2005, 02:05 AM
I have no idea who's hanging on the side of the jeep... those are just pics off of his website

Cody
01-07-2005, 03:31 AM
I couldn't care less who is on the side of the jeep, but if those people are there for balast, then that suspension is unstable.....or the driver is a pussy ;)

It'll smoke before it'll tip :D

http://www.fototime.com/6F97223C129CA4A/standard.jpg

Here is my 4 link. 1.25" heims, 1.75x.375 DOM lowers, etc. ...
http://www.fototime.com/0F602B417B70929/standard.jpg
http://www.fototime.com/3C5621CDDEF2078/standard.jpg

OverkillZJ
01-07-2005, 03:37 AM
LOL Cody. Fixed your link for you, and I had a feeling that'd be the pic that it linked to, haha.

But ya, I agree, he's not leaning anywhere near needing balast.

Cody
01-07-2005, 03:42 AM
lol, I went in to fix it and I was like "wtf, it's right....fuckin Reichert..." But I guess you fixed it for me ;)

Thanks, I'm a picture whore sometimes.

I guess I remember the days when I didn't really know the limits of my rig and would get overly cautious and nervous---but that pic is kinda weak. I can understand having balast with a family of 4 and a 500 foot cliff on the pass. side, but not there. If it tips, there is enough dudes to just push it back over.

Cody

OverkillZJ
01-07-2005, 03:48 AM
lol, I went in to fix it and I was like "wtf, it's right....fuckin Reichert..." But I guess you fixed it for me ;)

Thanks, I'm a picture whore sometimes.

I guess I remember the days when I didn't really know the limits of my rig and would get overly cautious and nervous---but that pic is kinda weak. I can understand having balast with a family of 4 and a 500 foot cliff on the pass. side, but not there. If it tips, there is enough dudes to just push it back over.

Cody

LOL, I was bored and felt like fixing it.

And the picture looks sweet enough, you dont' need the 500' drop!

Tommy
01-07-2005, 12:03 PM
Kinda off topic but i had to compliment, every time I see Cody sig it brings on a smile. That shit is funny.

We used 1.25" heims heims as well. And the same DOM.

JeepinHank
01-07-2005, 12:33 PM
Alright, I guess its time for me to chime in here. I was wanting to hold off on posting anything about Sierra Rock Control until I had gotten everything, but it looks like its time.

I'm the guy that Nate's referring to on the parts. Just to clarify, I'm not buying a complete "kit" from Ty. When I was still in the design stages for building my own longarms, Ty released some of the preliminary shots of his kit. I decided that I liked the looks of his belly skid, and initially contacted him to see about getting just the skid and the x-members. As time went on, I kept adding on the little odds n ends (tubing inserts, threaded rod, etc.). I figured I'd be purchasing that crap through someone, so I might as well give the business to Ty.

I sent a check out on 11/17 as a deposit on my parts. I was quoted a turnaround time of around a month. As the scheduled delivery date got closer, I noticed that I hadn't heard anything. I sent Ty an email to find out what was going on, and got some unfortunate news. It turns out that the Waterjet guys had put the batch in the "wrong stack", and the parts hadn't even been cut yet. After talking with him, it seems that the waterjet machine was moved over Thanksgiving, and, of course, the machine was out of commission for several days due to the move. To add to that, the "wrong stack" issue was due to the wrong person receiving the file. After Ty spoke with the right person, the waterjet guys did what they had to do to get the stuff taken care of in a timely fashion.

Ty was heading out on vacation on December 18th, and he had just finished welding the stuff up that day. He dropped off a few of the parts to be bent on a press-brake at another shop. It turns out (due to my time frame) Ty had to use a shop other than the one he usually uses. Ty left town for his vacation, and left instructions for his roommate to pick up the parts and ship them when they were ready. When his roommate picked them up, the shop had screwed up the bends. That created another delay.

I have spoken with Ty on numerous occasions, and he sounds sincere and is really sorry about what happened. He has gone out of his way to make things right on this deal. He's thrown in several parts that I had been planning to make my self - free of charge. He's picking up a majority of the shipping costs as well.

He made the offer and effort to get the parts I need right now shipped immediately, but I told him to hold off until everything was ready. I've had to modify my time frame, and I'll have plenty of stuff to keep me busy until I get the parts.

In hindsight, I was shooting for an unrealistic timeline to complete this build in the first place. My plan was to attempt to get everything done (or pretty dang close) - axle swaps, suspension build, full exhaust and everything else - in a week. I was going to take a week off from work, and spend every waking moment I had working on the Jeep. The main reason for this was to keep me on the road - as the Jeep was my daily driver. That's no longer the case. I picked up a new DD, so the time frame isn't as big of an issue as it was before.

Honestly, my project wasn't going to get completed that quickly - even if I had received all of my parts when I was supposed to.

All in all, my experience hasn't been bad dealing with Ty. Things came up and put us behind schedule, but none of that was in our control. I think the issues with contacting him are because of his schedule. Right now, he's got a break from school, so I wouldn't think it would be too hard to get in touch with him.

I'll keep everyone posted when my parts arrive.

Hank

snarfer86
01-08-2005, 01:45 AM
The only thing im interested in is where you go to test this buggy since i dont know any of the local wheeling spots...O yea, Have fun out there its prety wet out, we got quite a bit of rain here today and i think were just gona get more :mrgreen:

Cue-Ball
01-09-2005, 03:16 AM
Hey guys

Just a quick post to let you all know that we had a great visit with Rock Control today. I will be posting a full review later this weekend or Monday with pix.

Now that I spent all day out I need to do some stuff with the family but just wanted to let you all know we did make it out there.

Nordic1
01-09-2005, 05:09 AM
http://www.mallcrawlin.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?p=10550#10550

:shock: :lol: :D :D :D

gearhead313
01-09-2005, 06:34 PM
http://www.fototime.com/%7B5BA0354C-00C0-4877-B412-46D8EF7B1FE6%7D/picture.JPG
http://www.fototime.com/%7B2C365000-15C7-4AD5-A724-9BBD53F63F9B%7D/picture.JPG

The double triangulated rear suspension creates little or NO body roll. I honestly believe Ty has less body roll with no sway bars than mine does with sway bars


simply an observation.. seems like it doesn't want to flex much. maybe its the springs or shocks (doubt it), but that setup shouldn't be stiffer than a rig with swaybars on the street.

also this pic comes to mind:
http://www.rockcontrol.com/ZJBuggy/400_jeep3.jpg


maybe its just trying to see it from a computer screen, but it seems like it binds a bit. I dunno, just my observation.

deadman
01-09-2005, 07:20 PM
Is that left rear tire in the air in the first pic?
It looks like that is max. flex without people hanging on the side...

Nordic1
01-09-2005, 09:56 PM
Well I asked Ty about the pic.... this one:

http://www.rockcontrol.com/ZJBuggy/400_jeep3.jpg

and he mentioned that the pic is kind of deceiving... he wasn't lifting a tire but but I guess the pass side tire dropped into a hole (or something like that). Ty's limiting factor in flex for the rear are his shocks; they're kind of short.

Another thing is that his center limiting strap is a little short.

http://www.fototime.com/%7B19DF7D30-2FDD-47E8-A565-4FFF2EAD6DDE%7D/picture.JPG

I don't know.... I'd say that's pretty good flex considering he did make it all the way up the rock.

http://www.fototime.com/%7B6365449E-AFEC-44BA-8390-32C57237D007%7D/picture.JPG

when it warms up a little bit I'll go back and we'll have a chance to put the suspension through it's paces. When Dirk and I went up, it was like 40-50 degrees all day with patches of hard rain so driving places was kind of difficult. I'll shoot Ty and e-mail as I am sure he has some good money shots of his suspension somewhere .

Cody
01-10-2005, 01:47 AM
Unless the hole is 2 feet deep, I still don't get it.

But, you can see the huge abyss infront of his tire, looks like it's going to fall off the edge of the world ;)

I'm just giving you a hard time. I think the rig has more than enough flex to work. I also think the setup looks really good and will likely perform just as well as the other long arm setups out there (maybe better--but I personally think the limiting factor of a ZJ is it's weight (and it's huge body)) which even the most brilliantly engineered suspension can't fix. Flex looks cool, but there is a limit to how much usefull flex you can have and at somepoint you sacrifice stability for flex. I would much rather have a stable rig than a gay ramp travel queen.

The double triangulated suspension works awesome (at least in my application which is set up a little different). In a traditional triangulated suspensions the axle is held in place laterally by the triangulated arms. In the double, you have 2 sets of arms that locate the axle laterally. In my application (and I'm sure this depends on the design of the arms--length, ends, vertical seperation etc.) I have almost zero rear stear. My rig is by no means the flexiest rig in the world--but if you look at the picture where my rig is smokeing (or if you've seen me do that trick before and I know some of you have) my drivers rear tire is at least 4 feet off the ground---and my front is off the ground too (I think mainly because I had just pit it into reverse and the weight shifted). I would much rather have a rig that can sit at that angle and be balanced, than a rig that can max out a 30* ramp at the show and shine.

One thing I want to know, I can see from the picture that he has the same muffler problem as I do....i just had a bullet style muffler put in because I couldn't fit anything else (I would much rather wheel to the super sweet sounds of my old flowmaster 70 :( ). What are people that want to register their rigs going to do about the muffler? I know on mine, I have no idea how anyone could weave a 3" pipe out the back of the rig and clear all the moving parts.

And I still think that rear axle is bitchin!

Cody

Nordic1
01-10-2005, 02:22 AM
Exaust on long arm suspension kinda sucks... Persoanally I moved my muffler up and dumped it behind the muffler. The only pictures I can recall of someody making a tail-pipe make it all the way back is KevinF and his pipes get kinda crazy with Bends. Ty's room-mate apartently is the tube-bending-god and Ty wants him to redo his exaust and move the muffler to under the rear bumper (he moved his gas tank so there's space). I'll e-mail Ty a link to this thread and see if he can add his thoughts on it..

JpRngr
01-10-2005, 02:47 AM
What are people that want to register their rigs going to do about the muffler? I know on mine, I have no idea how anyone could weave a 3" pipe out the back of the rig and clear all the moving parts.


Cody

3" Dryer vent tubing! :lol:

BigDaveZJ
01-10-2005, 02:54 AM
What are people that want to register their rigs going to do about the muffler? I know on mine, I have no idea how anyone could weave a 3" pipe out the back of the rig and clear all the moving parts.


Cody

3" Dryer vent tubing! :lol:


:D :D

chadjans
01-11-2005, 12:12 AM
And I still think that rear axle is bitchin!

Cody

Looks cool, but that is not where the strength issues are in the 9 inchers...

Chad

Cody
01-11-2005, 12:36 AM
The only thing I eve worry about on my 9" is the housing.

Where would you say the weakness of the 9 is, if not in the housing?


Cody

chadjans
01-11-2005, 12:48 AM
It is the housing but the weak point is not behind the gears. It is below them. So underneath...

Chad

Pearce
01-11-2005, 01:28 PM
One thing I want to know, I can see from the picture that he has the same muffler problem as I do....i just had a bullet style muffler put in because I couldn't fit anything else (I would much rather wheel to the super sweet sounds of my old flowmaster 70 :( ). What are people that want to register their rigs going to do about the muffler? I know on mine, I have no idea how anyone could weave a 3" pipe out the back of the rig and clear all the moving parts.


Cody

I put a bullet muffler on my YJ but its a two chamber muffler. Its really not much bigger than the Dynomax bullet straight through muffler I had on the ZJ. But it is much more quite. Not 70 sounding but street legal. I had a shop put it in because of the extent of the work I wanted and unfortunately I don't remember what kind it was. But small it is. I'll have to do some research. It came in two lengths.

nate
01-11-2005, 05:47 PM
With the upper arms being shorter, the concern I have is when 1 tire is up on a rock and the other tire is dropped in a hole. The low tire side will want the pinion to rotate down, and the high side up... so it will bind?

Did you guys get measurements on the arms... or Ty can you chime in? It's hard to tell from the pics, but it seems that the uppers are a good foot or so shorter.
Also wondering if the axle will get pushed way back, like in the pics, with the high clearance mounts.

JeepinHank thanks for clearing up the issues you had. I didn't realize that the problems where mainly with outside shops.

At this point I am trying to decide... Clayton's kit or Rock Control's kit... I know Clayton's kit will perform... know is Rock Control's a notch higher?

Troy
01-11-2005, 07:00 PM
I think the rig has more than enough flex to work. I also think the setup looks really good and will likely perform just as well as the other long arm setups out there (maybe better--but I personally think the limiting factor of a ZJ is it's weight (and it's huge body)) which even the most brilliantly engineered suspension can't fix. Flex looks cool, but there is a limit to how much usefull flex you can have and at somepoint you sacrifice stability for flex. I would much rather have a stable rig than a gay ramp travel queen.

Flex looks good to me. Not sure if that angle warrants people on the side of it though... Is that thing really that light? Here's a pic to reference against. Remember that the angle in which the picture is taken has to come into play as well.

http://smallnet.homeip.net/jeepzj/ZJ_flex1.JPG

Cue-Ball
01-11-2005, 07:38 PM
Nate,

Sorry I did measure the arms.

LCA 42"
UCA 38"

These are for the rear. The axle on Ty's Jeep is in close to the stock location. When Ty does the install on a stock Jeep later this month he will be able to dial in the placement of the axle as well as the length of the arms, after that it will be a cookie cutter to just bang them out.

Hope that helps.

nate
01-12-2005, 08:13 AM
Those arms are pretty long! 4"... That's not bad at all. If I had known that from the start, I wouldn't of been concerned about it. Would have helped me chose which kit.

Ty, post up pics of the install. I am interested in seeing more pics and how the install goes.

Cue-Ball
01-12-2005, 12:23 PM
Depending on when Ty does the install on the Bay Area ZJ, I might go up and get some pix of the install and kind of hang out for the day just to be sure it all goes in smoothly before I write a check myself.

If I make it up there I will certainly post the pix.

nate
01-12-2005, 02:21 PM
Thanks for the pics Ty. Alot better to see the flex on that ramp then on the rock in the pic on your webpage.

When do you plan on having a true production kit available? I would be interested in seeing pics of the install that will be done in a few weeks.

Question... the uppers are 4" shorter than the lowers... how far apart are these mounts?