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speedmontzj
11-29-2004, 03:00 AM
who was it that did the antirock install on nagca. ive got to install a rear swaybar before i drive this thing. just wanting some ideas.
background : 14b moved back 3". stock gas tank for now so im hoping i can mount in front of the axle.

OverkillZJ
11-29-2004, 12:07 PM
Front antirock was ChrisL who sold his rig about a year later to MikeBeach, who then sold it to someone else for dirt cheap.

I run a rear TJ sway bar on my rig (axle side) and it allows full flex, but also limits body roll. Gonna try poly bushings in it next to see if it helps more.

Nordic1
11-29-2004, 04:33 PM
I'm working on doing anti-rock for my rear right now and then doing Anti-rock up front when I do my hp30.

I also have a company out of Socal (I have their catalog here somewhere) that makes torsion style sway bars for racing applications. They make everything in like 20 or 30 different lengths and thicknesses which is pretty sweet.


I've got the black plague (sick) or else I would upload my “design” thus far for the anti-rock style sway bar.

Pearce
11-30-2004, 02:09 PM
I made one for the rear:

Pics:
http://www.imagestation.com/album/?id=4290311961

Where I got the parts:
http://www.1speedway.com/Swaybars.htm

Cant find my post about it on NAGCA or maybe its on JU, I dont know.

Nordic1
11-30-2004, 02:21 PM
thats funny... that was the company I am going to use as well.... do you have part numbers for the things you used? Anything you like/dislike about the setup?

Pearce
11-30-2004, 09:12 PM
I dont have the part numbers anymore. I just got a same size bar as stock and figured out the rest. One of the more important things is to get the right length bar for your application.

The only thing that sucked about it was breaking my hand while fabing it up. :lol:

Has worked great.

Nordic1
12-01-2004, 03:30 AM
cool thanks for the info... this saturday I'm welding in some tabs for limmiting straps, I guess I'll take measurements for everything then. For the people interested, I'll post a writeup thread on it when I am done.

mikebeach
12-03-2004, 03:32 PM
[quote="OverkillZJ"]Front antirock was ChrisL who sold his rig about a year later to MikeBeach, who then sold it to someone else for dirt cheap.

[quote]
Yeah I gave the damn thing away :roll:

Cue-Ball
12-03-2004, 04:25 PM
Hey there Mikey,

How ya been?

I heard you are no longer with Kevin's what's up with that?

Still wish i could have gotten the Jeep, mine if going to cost me alot more than what you sold yours for and mine is only the 4.0L. Oh well that's life.

OverkillZJ
12-08-2004, 12:17 AM
Front antirock was ChrisL who sold his rig about a year later to MikeBeach, who then sold it to someone else for dirt cheap.


Yeah I gave the damn thing away :roll:


You said it, not me ;)

speedmontzj
12-08-2004, 01:08 AM
thanks for the links guys that is what i was needing.

jjunk
01-23-2005, 04:33 PM
How funny I'm the guy who bought the grand from mike. It doesn't have a antirock sway bar system. But I am in the market to find out who has one or has built one. I need some specs on length and size to use. Hey Mike if you still read this or chris L great jeep and all our club members are extremly
impressed with its flex and driveability.

OverkillZJ
01-23-2005, 04:58 PM
How funny I'm the guy who bought the grand from mike. It doesn't have a antirock sway bar system. But I am in the market to find out who has one or has built one. I need some specs on length and size to use. Hey Mike if you still read this or chris L great jeep and all our club members are extremly
impressed with its flex and driveability.

I don't think Mike or Chris come around here, but your Jeep did used to have an antirock on the front, it was the ZJ that Currie used to test fit it on while Chris L still owned it.

MaineZJ
01-23-2005, 05:13 PM
if Currie used a Grand to test fit and what not, give em a call to see what works

jjunk
01-23-2005, 07:13 PM
So answer me this question why was it taken off was it not working. Did mike take it off or chris L. I will call currie tommarow and find out if they have the old specs on it and give me info on itl

OverkillZJ
01-23-2005, 08:32 PM
So answer me this question why was it taken off was it not working. Did mike take it off or chris L. I will call currie tommarow and find out if they have the old specs on it and give me info on itl

I don't know the whole history, the posts were made on JU yerars ago. I looked for the pics, but I dont' have them any more.

mikebeach
01-24-2005, 04:08 PM
Hey Stuart, glad to see you made it over to this board. When I got the jeep it didnt have the Antirock on it, I beleive Currie prototyped one on that jeep and later decided there wasnt a big enough market to mass produce it. I was planning on putting one as well, what I was going to do was use one of there universal kits that comes with the bar and the tube you can weld on. That jeep has those sway bar drop brackets in the front; I was gonna weld the tube directly to those drop brackets and it wouldve been an easy way to do it, if that makes sense.
HTH
Mike
Stuart- E-mail me some pics of the jeep... mikebeach2002@yahoo.com

jjunk
01-24-2005, 08:01 PM
Cool I was looking threw your old pictures and you didn't have it at that time. So I did some investigating and found that the speed shop is cheaper and the drop brackets will work perfectly. I think I might try useing pillow blocks instead of a bar across it. I got in contact with chad westly and he told me to call him. So mike have you gotten a new one yet. Or a toyota to wheel yet. Also whats the post about you not working for Kevins anymore.

BigDaveZJ
01-24-2005, 08:07 PM
Stuart, let me know when you get working on this project. I'm going to need something similar on the ZJ when I get a bit taller and would be interested in how it works out for you.

jjunk
02-03-2005, 07:52 PM
Got all the new parts ordered for the front sway bar this week should get them by monday and wil install it then. I got all the parts from speedway engineeirng. I measured for all the parts and I think there all write.

norcaljr
02-03-2005, 09:49 PM
Got all the new parts ordered for the front sway bar this week should get them by monday and wil install it then. I got all the parts from speedway engineeirng. I measured for all the parts and I think there all write.


can you post a list of part #'s and take plenty of pics when you install it.

msvance
02-04-2005, 09:47 AM
yeah, i'm interested in all of this as well. Parts, arm lengths, etc.

how did you calculate what length the arms should be or did you just order a size that fits and then planning to tune with multiple hole positions?

any plans for the rear? if not, why?

thanks.

Nordic1
02-04-2005, 11:12 AM
I'm doing the same thing... infact my UPS is overdue for a delievery


yeah, i'm interested in all of this as well. Parts, arm lengths, etc.

I think I ordered a 40.5" x 1" 48 spline solid bar with 17" sway arms undrilled and not heat treated. I also ordered some pillow blocks but I think I am going to do something trick with DOM instead.



how did you calculate what length the arms should be or did you just order a size that fits and then planning to tune with multiple hole positions?


I ordered parts to fit and then ordered parts to kinmda match the dimensions of my addc however in the 40.5 variety (what I ordered for the rear) it's a 1" bar or a 1 1/4" bar unless I want to have something made custom but that's $$$... 1 1/4 sounds to thick and the addco is like 7/8" *I think* so I settled with 1".



any plans for the rear? if not, why?


I'm doing the rear first since there's more room to work with. When I get the rear done and ironed out, II'll be doing the front.

msvance
02-04-2005, 04:45 PM
from what i understand and what makes sense in my brain, the length of the splined bar mainly depends on what size is available and also where you want to mount the end links to the axle, not so much to do with handling. also, the diameter of that bar should make no difference to handling. the main factor is the torque arms, or whatever you want to call them, themselves,. Does this sound correct from your research?

if so, then how did you determine to use 17" bars and why go for the non heat treated? from what i understand the torque arms from the race shops are a different metal and have different properties than the currie style. they are meant to be more "stiff" to prevent articulation in sprint cars, where as the currie style was designed to allow for more give for increased articulation (thus the warning from currie that swapping factory sway bar for theris will increase sway on road). it sounded like you would need a longer arm from the sprint stuff to achieve the same deflection as currie stuff. another concern was that the sprint stuff is being pushed outside its design limits and could lead to premature failure.

does any of this make sense? was any of this factored in to either of your decisions?

I by no means am criticizing either or you. i am wanting to do the same type thing and haven't fully researched it so I am trying to see how you guys got to where you are at.

GOR - as far as doing something trick w/ DOM, are you going to run that from rail to rail and use some sort of press in bushing to support the splined bar instead of the blocks like from the factory? any "real" denefit to doing that over the blocks? better support maybe?

Thanks for the info.

msvance
02-04-2005, 04:52 PM
i take back what I said about the diameter of the bar. Just thought about it again and that has at least as much to do with it as the arms themselves. is that made from the same material as what currie uses and just the arms are different or are both different materials? length would also have something to do with it, but that should primarily be set by where you need/want to mount your end links it seems.

it seems as if everything from the sprint shops would have less "spring" and you would need to use smaller diameter bar and/or longer torque arms to achieve the similar effect.

let me know if I am way off or what you have found through your research to lead you to the stuff you got.

Thanks.

jjunk
02-04-2005, 06:49 PM
ok to answer all the questions. Chase I want to know why you ordered a 40 inch bar to start. If you measure the front wear your bushings are mounted. YOu were suppose to add 1 !/2 to either side. Mine only measured to 32 1/2.
So I only ordered a 36 inch bar. The currie style only comes in 35 inches in length. I think its to short Is my figure. I also went to a rock crawling shop and three of us looked at it and did all the figureing with measurements. then call the company up and get there help as well.

Well the diamiter of the bar is set up for the weight of your vehicle. You don't want one to soft our to hard its kind of a shoot match on that one. ALso if you measure back from the bushing to the down arm you get some sort of figure that is close to what you want . just don't measure to long or it will hit the springs on full travel. THe only thing I need to buy hear is the all thread to connect the hiem joints together. Your arm measurement is close to what you should have were you are sitting now. Plus with all thread I can cut it were I want.

Any other questions or when I get it I will tell you.

norcaljr
02-04-2005, 09:56 PM
Currie Universal Anti-Rock Sway Bar Kit

http://www.crawltech.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=1191


hmmm this looks like it might be a better option.... then just fabing up a mount for it

jjunk
02-05-2005, 09:59 AM
Well its not the best idea. For one I paid far less than that for mine also it only looks like it comes in 3 different sizes. If the bar is to short say the 32 inch bar it will sit to far under the car. second if its to long as in 44 it will rub the tires if you run a 33 or bigger. The 35.75 long arm would probably work but I measured mine and need a 36 to sit were it needs to. No one has tried it yet and I called currie and they told me that no one with a grand has one and wasn't sure if it would work. As far as my jeep was used as a proto type they couldn't remember or answer me if it was.

norcaljr
02-05-2005, 02:18 PM
Well its not the best idea. For one I paid far less than that for mine also it only looks like it comes in 3 different sizes. If the bar is to short say the 32 inch bar it will sit to far under the car. second if its to long as in 44 it will rub the tires if you run a 33 or bigger. The 35.75 long arm would probably work but I measured mine and need a 36 to sit were it needs to. No one has tried it yet and I called currie and they told me that no one with a grand has one and wasn't sure if it would work. As far as my jeep was used as a proto type they couldn't remember or answer me if it was.


what size bar did you get ? 1'' or 1-1/4'' ?

jjunk
02-05-2005, 04:37 PM
I got the 1 1/4 size bast on the weight and that it also is a daily driver. With the .188 wall size If its to soft or to hard then I can send it back and get a better one for what I'm looking for . THis way you can dial in your suspention better.

norcaljr
02-05-2005, 09:17 PM
cant wait to see some pics and how it worked out

Nordic1
02-06-2005, 12:16 AM
I got the 1 1/4 size bast on the weight and that it also is a daily driver. With the .188 wall size If its to soft or to hard then I can send it back and get a better one for what I'm looking for . THis way you can dial in your suspention better..



Where are you going to put it? I'm sinking mine into the frame.... are you bolting the pillow blocks to the stock location? in which case then the size you ordered would work just fine. I'm moving mine way up so it won't hit my LA as the suspension cycles. Have you gotten your stuff yet? It's almost been a week since I placed my order and I haven't seen anything come to my door yet.

msvance
02-06-2005, 11:32 PM
ok, so i read up on this a little more. the rate has everything to do with the bar diameter, length and material in addition to the sway arm length (not really the sway arm material). From what i understand, the bar that is used in stock car applications does not have the properties that currie uses and is not made for long travel applications, although it seems like quite a few people are using stock car stuff, some with failures and probably more with not.

Now, for more questions...

jjunk - what do you mean by 0.188 wall diameter? did you not get the solid rod? why? also, are you saying that you can send back the rod and exchange it for another size if it doesn't work or you would have to buy different diameters until you get the right one? also, from what i've read 1.25" seems huge and would be really really stiff (follow-up question below)

jjunk/gor - it sounds like the length of the rod you chose was based primarily on what fits. did either of you make any calculations as to what diameter bar to use or are you just making a guess to start with?

thanks.

Nordic1
02-07-2005, 12:04 AM
I wish my stuff was here so I could post pics of what I mean



jjunk - what do you mean by 0.188 wall diameter?


Speedway makes bars in both soild and hollow... two different sets of sway rates. In this case the bar he got is like a piece of dom with 0.188 (1/8") thick walls. He got a real short bar so this application will work nice for him.



did you not get the solid rod?


If he got a 0.188 bar then yes he got hollowed. Personally I got solid...



why?


Why the hell not... mostly sway rates and application. It would be bank for me to get the bar I want in hollow (custom bar instead of what they had in stock).



also, are you saying that you can send back the rod and exchange it for another size if it doesn't work or you would have to buy different diameters until you get the right one?


Lol I hope they do, that would be cool


also, from what i've read 1.25" seems huge and would be really really stiff (follow-up question below)


It's 1.25" but hollow so yes it's huge but not hugely stiff. Personally I got a 1" thick SOLID bar but mine is much longer (longer bar = bar twists more and allows more sway/flex)



jjunk/gor - it sounds like the length of the rod you chose was based primarily on what fits. did either of you make any calculations as to what diameter bar to use or are you just making a guess to start with?


I put everything on paper, the dimensions of the addco and compared it to what I could fit (actually where I wanted to fit it). The 1" bar in terms of sway will be really similar to having my addco so I guess it will work for me.

This is how I came about with my calculations...

Addco bar: 5/ 8" thick, 49" wide and 12" reach.

(Bar 5/ 8" thick reaching 49" eye to eye)
__________________________
| |
| | = 12" reach
| |

49 x (5/ 8) = 30.625 -Length of Addco x thickness of Addco = Y

30.625 x 12 = 367.5 -Y x reach of addco = Z

367.5 / 17 = 21.6 -Z divided by reach of SpeedWay arm = A

21.6 / 1 = 21.6 -A divided by the thickness of the SpeedWay
bar = how long of a bar I would need to
re-create the sway characteristics of the
Addco. So at 40.5" I clear both frame rails
and I will be free and clear to cut the sway
arms down if I need them to fit better

norcaljr
02-07-2005, 12:15 AM
.120 wall = 1/8'' .188 wall = 3/16th :roll: :D

Nordic1
02-07-2005, 12:26 AM
Lol so I added that up wrong... but for people that want to know a little bit more about Jim NorCalJR... this is what it says on the front of his rig:
http://www.fototime.com/%7B76926E11-97D0-43AD-9386-00FC5DEE463E%7D/picture.JPG

norcaljr
02-07-2005, 12:31 AM
Lol so I added that up wrong... but for people that want to know a little bit more about Jim NorCalJR... this is what it says on the front of his rig:
http://www.fototime.com/%7B76926E11-97D0-43AD-9386-00FC5DEE463E%7D/picture.JPG


:oops:

AprilzWarrior
02-07-2005, 02:19 AM
PNWED

ELLLLLIOTTTTT
02-07-2005, 02:22 AM
WTFord? :?

jjunk
02-08-2005, 09:58 PM
sorry I haven't been on for awhile on this. Goingoffroading thanks for the explination on this to everyone. To help out on some of the questions if you don't have all your times tables or all your numbers if you call them up and tell them what you want and are working on they pretty much do all the calculations for it and they helped out great.

Well I am putting mine on the front so I also have a drop bracket that I'm going to use as my solid point. It also drop down so I won't rub the lower pulley or the lower radiator hose.

Did you get your sway bar in yet. Mine came in tonight and I roughly put it together in the garage. Now I need to remove the old one and drill new holes for the pillow blocks. THen I have to cut and drill holes in the cross bars for the lower arms. I'll try tomarrow on it.


Yes I got a hollow bar Its what I was told would work for what I am doing If it doesn't work then I'm screwed but that is the price I'm going to pay.

Nordic1
02-09-2005, 01:46 AM
I got mine today as well... they shipped me the 37.5 bar, not the 40.5 that I ordered and they didn't charge/ship me for the pillow blocks... BUT I have an idear for a really trick way to set these guys up. After I find my cammera charged, I'll post pics for everybody

Nordic1
02-10-2005, 09:06 PM
yea I know there's a lot of constants that I didn't include... strength of material, addco’s actual sway rate... I figure my equations would be close enough especially considering these parts just have to be “close enough” to work for me

Nordic1
02-20-2005, 01:10 AM
This is what Stuart came up with over the weekend (asked me to host his pics). I'll have mine done as soon as my parts from NorthernTool.com come in:

http://www.fototime.com/%7B32C55EE7-3E15-4903-87AA-B4881295920F%7D/picture.JPG
http://www.fototime.com/%7B6D4097A1-195B-471A-8EE4-C478159146AA%7D/picture.JPG
http://www.fototime.com/%7B72D00411-4809-435A-87BA-C95B7E6C93A8%7D/picture.JPG

nathaniel
02-20-2005, 12:09 PM
From the pics it looks like the arm is going to nail the spring on downward flex. The problem with using an antirock type setup on a grand is the mounting points. In order to get good flex out of this type of setup the entire bar needs to be farther away from the axle so you can have long sidearms to get a decent mount of flex out of. not even considering ihow stiff the bar is at all. The max downtravel allowed is going to be determined by the length of the swaybar endlinks and the length of those side arms. It will help having drop down brackets to fit the bar but really hurt approach angle.

Assuming your arms are 10" in length and your endlinks 10" max length if they are level (and not pointed up so they run into the coils ) The max down ward travel is going to be ~45 degree angle. the 10" + 10" when drooped is 20" and if you recalculate the down travel using simple a^2 +b^2 = c^2
a is 10" b unknown and c being 20" then b is ~17.3" sounds good but not really because its from the the point where the sway bar is mounted down you lose the original 10" at ride height so you are left with 7.3" downward not taking into account bar stiffness mounting points binding or anything else. 7" down isn't going to put my 35" tires I had below my rockers which is typically the most usable flex

Personally unless its a tj or something that can flop over allmost on its side without touching the body(Buggy) I dont see the point. Run a rear bar to control the body being floppy offroad and let the front flex it up

I was headed down the same path as well but using an xj bar on the front and explorer bar in the rear but I dont think I'd be happy with the flex provided in the front
All in my IMHO

bar looks good though

Deltron
08-21-2005, 08:39 PM
Just wondering if there was an update from stuart or GOR on how they like there setups? thanks
-dave

ELLLLLIOTTTTT
08-21-2005, 09:02 PM
Just wondering if there was an update from stuart or GOR on how they like there setups? thanks
-dave

[hijack] is this david merril ?

Deltron
08-21-2005, 11:38 PM
yeh its me, hows the bumper holdin up? good to hear from you, peace
-Dave

96ZJ
08-15-2006, 04:47 PM
Dragging up an old thread but I am looking to do this as I found a cheap used antirock. Anyone have pics of what they ended up doing?