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Jeepinparrothead
11-19-2004, 02:36 PM
After 4 of the worst years of my life in college for accounting I am buying myself a graduation gift. I graduate in May so it is soon. I am going to get a tow rig. Now I know the argument between henley and brentt about d-max and cummins. I will not be able to afford anything new, so think like 98-01 range. I want the six speed in any of them. I am leanning towards the cummins but want REAL feedback. I am buying based on longevity, maintance and pull power. I will give a little on pull power if the maintaince makes up the differnece. So people with a PSD and people with the CTD this is your time to let me know why, supported by numbers, yours is the best.

If there is a website that I might not have looked at please let me know. This is not a war here just need to know what is the best overall. Not just motor or transmission but the whole package. I will be buying soon so I need some help. Thanks in advance. I don't want to see the connecting rods pic I have seen it thanks. I need numbers and not ones off the websites. Think real world pulling a grand.

Alaska ZJ
11-19-2004, 03:04 PM
You can get the Dmax and Allison in the 01.

If you go with the Dodge get a Manual Tranny.

Personally I like my Chevy. You have heard the arguments....but really it depends on what is comfortuable for you.

Dodge Auto's are weak in that vintage.

Chevy's have IFS.

Both Tcases and rear ends are good.

I like the cockpit of the Chebby.

go drive a BUNCH. Get the one that you like the most.

Jeepinparrothead
11-20-2004, 12:41 AM
I started my search and drives today. I really like the space of the Ford. I always seem to find friends to go along with me on trips and it would be nice if they were comfortable in the backseat. If the Ford can last almost as long as the CTD and be about the same maintance, then I will go with powerstroke. The Chebby is much too expensive for me in 01. I would buy it if the price was not soooooo much higher than the Ford and Dodge. I don't want to spend 29000 on this 20000-25000 is about right. I just need to find out more about maintance and longevity of the the Powerstoke. Thanks man for the advice.

snarfer86
11-20-2004, 02:10 PM
Chevy, Ford and dodge all have reliabile motors, its the other things that tend to fail on them, personaly ive heard nothing but praise from ford owners and the chevy owners but ive heard most people arround here would never buy a dodge again.

nate
11-20-2004, 03:48 PM
I've never driven the Chebby, but I drive Fords and Dodges everyday. They are modified to have something like a 104" wheelbase, put still the same deal. We pull close up to nearly 30,000 pounds with them.

I'm not a Ford guy, but I really like the 6.0L. It's got great power. I do hate the drive by wire with a passion though. Also the seatbelt chim that won't shut up is annoying...even if the truck is in PARK it still goes at it.
The 7.3L is a big turd IMO. The first time I drove one, I thought the park brake was froze because it didn't want to GO.

I like the Dodges as well. The Cummins has awesome low end torque. Ride rougher compared to the Ford though. The auto trannies are crap, then again there aren't many Dodge trannies that are good. The older Cummins (early 90s) are turds IMO.. slow and gutless.

Jeepinparrothead
11-21-2004, 02:12 AM
Thanks Nate that is what what I wanted to hear. Some one that has driven the Fords and Dodges. So I am guessing that if you were buying one that you would buy the Ford right? I can deal with the seatbelt chim. I really like the room with the four door. What is the maintaince schedule? Do you know? I thought you might since you must work with them or in them or something. What is the mileage of some of your trucks. Do you think the Powerstroke will last as long as the Cummins, with about the same maintance? This info is helping me alot. I really appreciate it.

nate
11-21-2004, 01:48 PM
Yeah I think I would go with the Ford. I don't work on the trucks that much as we are limited to what we can do, I mainly just drive. We do have alot of problems with the front ends on the Dodges... ball joints, tie rods, etc. Never seem to hold a good alignment.

The Fords have had no major problems other than they won't start when it's cold and they aren't plugged in. Alot of that has to do with the engine being WAY controlled by the computer, so low voltage it won't start... just cranks. The Dodges you can usually get to fire up by holding the gas about 1/2 throttle, even if it can barely crank over.

The trucks are all fairly low mileage because we are towing trailers a distance of maybe 5 miles. On a busy week, I put maybe 200 miles on a truck. I think the highest mileage one we have is like 50,000 miles :D

As for which one will last longer, I've heard Cummins are rated for 500,000 miles, while the PS is 300,000 miles. I'm not sure if that's true. I think by the time you hit even 300,000 miles the rest of the truck is going to be pretty warn.

JeepinHank
11-22-2004, 10:51 AM
First, from a fellow "bean counter", congrats on finishing up your degree. I hope you look forward to a glorious career in accounting. I assume you're pursuing certification?

Ok back on topic. I've been shopping around for a tow vehicle for a while now. I can't offer too much in terms of experience, but I do want to offer a word on maintenance.

Your 4.0 take 6 quarts of 10W-30.

For the big diesels, from what I've been told, you're looking at around 4 to 5 Gallons of Rotella T. So - you need to figure a maintenance cost of right around $100 per oil change (thats's including oil, oil filter, and fuel filter). The service interval isn't too much wider either (around 5-7K per oil change)

I tend to agree with Nate on the mileage issue. Even with the PSD being only rated to 300K, by then there will be plenty of other things needing attention. Since you're looking for a used truck, I'd be suspect of the dodges. I've heard way to many complaints about the dodge auto trannies. I have been told that the problem has been taken care of on the newer dodges, but you're not shopping for new. With a manual it may be a non-issue.

I've driven both a 4x4 Chevy/GM 2500, and a 4x4 F250. In terms of ride quality, the IFS on the Chevy really makes a difference. The F250 does have more of a "truck" feel, but I can't decide on how much I like that. They're both great vehicles in my book. In all honesty, I'll be buying the one I can get the best deal on.

Good Luck

Hank

Jeepinparrothead
11-22-2004, 11:12 AM
I had no idea there were anymore accountants out there in the Jeep world. Everybody seem to be some kind of Engineer. But yes I am going to start my masters fall 05 finish it and then I will have my 150 I will start sitting for the exam. I will be taking the CMA and CFM in a few months. Know anybody that needs an acountant? I have to ask.

Now back on topic. I thought it was like 20000 mile intervals between oil changes. I guess I am wrong. The manual tranny will be the only thing I will buy. If the ford motor is just as good and maintaince will be the same as Cummins, the Ford in my mind wins. Because the room is so much better and the enterior is much nicer. So, I guess I have made my mind up. 300,000 miles is all I will expect it to last. So if the PSD will go that long I will be happy. Unless someone can show me that the CTD has some advantage, major pull power or strength issue then I guess I need to go and buy a Ford. Thanks guys.

Alaska ZJ
11-22-2004, 11:35 AM
The CTD is heads and shoulders above the PSD......Drive them back to back. You will definetly feel a difference.

Dmax.....there is no substitute....lol

Jeepinparrothead
11-22-2004, 11:47 AM
Now after some reasearch on the net and with yall I am going to spend the next couple of months driving all that I can find and then I will make my descion so i plan to. I hope that I will feel a difference in one or the other. Thanks again guys.

JeepinHank
11-22-2004, 12:51 PM
I had no idea there were anymore accountants out there in the Jeep world. Everybody seem to be some kind of Engineer. But yes I am going to start my masters fall 05 finish it and then I will have my 150 I will start sitting for the exam. I will be taking the CMA and CFM in a few months. Know anybody that needs an acountant? I have to ask.

lol - No job prospects at the time.

There are a few of us accountants around in the Jeep world. You should know that if there's an engineer with an idea, then there HAS to be an accountant to tell them no. :twisted:

Good luck with the CMA and CFM. If you don't mind, let me know how the CFM exam goes. I've been debating on giving that one a try.

Hank

Jeepinparrothead
11-22-2004, 02:29 PM
Will do. The new format will be interesting on the CMA. CFM as well I assume, its all on the computer for one and then the fourth part of the CMA is all essay and writing. :shock:

Yeah if it wasn't for us accountants, there would be some engineers trying to make some stupid crap..... :lol:

nate
11-22-2004, 02:44 PM
In your place, I would testdrive a few trucks and see what you like. Alot of it is personal preference.

As for oil chainges, your looking at around 10-12 quarts, and the interval is usually every 15-20,000 miles.

JeepinHank
11-22-2004, 03:52 PM
10-12 qts does sound a little more realistic. I had a salesman tell me the 4-5 gallons thing, although that's not too far off I guess.

Nate - is the service interval really 15 - 20K? That's a hell of a lot better than I was thinking.

Also - test drove an `03 Chevy D-max crew cab at lunch - sweet... More than I want to pay for a pick-up, but still sweet.

Alaska ZJ
11-22-2004, 07:28 PM
10-12 qts does sound a little more realistic. I had a salesman tell me the 4-5 gallons thing, although that's not too far off I guess.

Nate - is the service interval really 15 - 20K? That's a hell of a lot better than I was thinking.

Also - test drove an `03 Chevy D-max crew cab at lunch - sweet... More than I want to pay for a pick-up, but still sweet.

The intervals nate is refereing to are Military intervals. The military takes Oil Samples and only changes the oil when needed (atleast this is how it is supposed to work).

I change my oil every 4-7k. I use exactly 2 gallons of oil. Rottella T cost's like 30 bucks for a 2 gallon jug at Tractor supply.

Oil filter is 10 bucks or so. so is the fuel and Tranny filter (Dmax has a spin on Tranny filter). I figure 60-75 per service. I could probably go longer with a oil analysis but I am lazy in that reguard.

The Dmax is a nice ride isn't it Hank?

I actually went down and test drove a new Dodge Crew Cab. If the components hold up (Tranny) it is/will be a STRONG contender against the Dmax.

The New Ford has yet to be tested by my ass.....maybe this weekend.

Cody
11-23-2004, 03:14 AM
I paid just bairly over $13k for my 99 CTD 2500 quad cab short bed about 1 year ago.

Just for your reference, I get 13-17 mileage city, high teens towing, and low twenties unloaded on the freeway..

I change the oil about every 6000 miles, the fuel filter every 10000 miles, and the tranny every year (unless it looks bad then I'll get it flushed). I do have the auto, and the truck has 150k miles on it now. I bought it with about 120k miles if I remember correctly and when I had the tranny flushed, they siad it didn't appear to ever have been rebuilt. I havn't turned up the motor at all because I don't want to spend the money on a tranny, but most people agree that as long as you leave the motor alone, and don't really hammer on it when the TC isn't locked up, the tranny will last pretty well.

I'm happy with mine. I got an ok deal on it, so I could probably turn around and sell it for 16000 or so. The diesels hold their value really well.

Cody

Troy
11-23-2004, 07:57 AM
I change the oil about every 6000 miles, the fuel filter every 10000 miles, and the tranny every year

This is correct for keeping a CTD in good working order. One other thing to note is to use quality filters - fleetgard is the only way to go. Too many horror stories about other filters damaging motors.

Bulldog 6
11-23-2004, 10:08 AM
My father in law has a 2001 Dodge 2500 Cummins and full-time RVs with it. He has never had any problems with his truck. His trailer brings him in at about 300# over the Gross Combined Vehicle Weight with 3.55 gears. He recently installed an underdrive unit that is shift on the fly capable, so now he has 2X the gears as before. The underdrive was $3K but he said it was worth every penny. Raised his towing capacity and with the wider gear range his engine runs cooler just by selecting a different gear. His exhaust gas temp when pulling was too high for comfort for the aluminum pistons.

My first sergeant has on 03 Cummins 3500 and changes oil about every 7500 using Rotella. Only major problems he had was he just had the u-joints replaced under 50K. He stole that thing for $31K with a sticker of over $40K. Chrysler retiree.

JeepinHank
11-23-2004, 11:15 AM
The intervals nate is refereing to are Military intervals. The military takes Oil Samples and only changes the oil when needed (atleast this is how it is supposed to work).

I change my oil every 4-7k. I use exactly 2 gallons of oil. Rottella T cost's like 30 bucks for a 2 gallon jug at Tractor supply.

Oil filter is 10 bucks or so. so is the fuel and Tranny filter (Dmax has a spin on Tranny filter). I figure 60-75 per service. I could probably go longer with a oil analysis but I am lazy in that reguard.

The Dmax is a nice ride isn't it Hank?

I actually went down and test drove a new Dodge Crew Cab. If the components hold up (Tranny) it is/will be a STRONG contender against the Dmax.

The New Ford has yet to be tested by my ass.....maybe this weekend.

D-max is a Damn nice ride. I swear if timing was a little better, I'd be calling the guy to sign the papers today. Still kicking myself a little over it, but I know this area - great deals come around a lot, if you know who to ask, and how to time it.

snarfer86
11-24-2004, 02:21 PM
how the hell are you supposed to check for water in the fuel? and what good would it do you if there was...you drove there so you would have already burned it off.

2jeepsforus
11-02-2005, 11:10 PM
My uncle has a 02 3500 PSD duely, that he also uses for plowing. I know he had to replace all the tie-rod ends from the excess weight of his V-plow. The truck only has 50,000 on it. Other than that he has absolutely no complaints.

I would recommend the 6.0 you can pound out some outrageous numbers with that motor, as far as power goes.
I haven't had any exposure with the newer dodges, but I am extremely impressed with the PSD.

Dave

8WR_ZJ
11-21-2005, 09:58 PM
i have a 97 PSD with 5 speed and 408,000 miles before i had to do any major engine replacements. It was my dads then i bought it from him and then he got a D-MAX (I must say it is very nice ride). He changed the oil(rotella) and filter every 7-8. I am using it to pull a 26 foot goose neck for my lawn buisness every day and i get exceptional fuel mileage in the city almost 18. the only complaint i have it that i had to put 3 water pumps in it since we have had it. but we bought a lifetime warranty and we were set. Dont have any real expierence with the cummings. hope this helps.

nate
12-04-2005, 04:52 PM
Jeepinparothead, you pick anything out since you started this post??

I got myself a 98 Dodge this summer and I'm happy with it.

Jeepinparrothead
12-04-2005, 11:39 PM
Well honestly, things have happened a lot faster than I had expected out of College. I got engaged in February, graduated college in May, started my first "real" job in May, got married in October, and am now closing on a house. So, needless to say some things got put on the back buner. I have now changed my entire game plan. I am now selling my ZJ, keeping the Grand Wagoneer, probably be buying something in February or March. I think now that the whole going to be towing a lot to different places has ended that I am going to go with the Duramax if I can afford it and then to the Ford PS if not, and then to a 2500 chevy gas if I can't afford that. So between that and trying to build my customer base for my new offroad parts gig my life has been jam packed. But I will keep everyone informed.

KeepItCrunk
12-05-2005, 12:55 AM
Well, just a little insight. I work at a ski area... I am one of the mechanics for the groomers, and 2 of our 04 bombardier BR350's have cummin's in them, im pretty sure there the same model thats in dodge trucks. They have given us NO problems at all. I mean, jsut about everything on them except the engine has broken, so you can tell they are reliable. I have a friend who works at a tractor repair shop and one of the guys has like 280k on his cummins (and it shows... wicked hick truck) and then i know this weird kid at my school and hes clockin about 341k on his 1 ton dodge. But for the two companies. At the ski area we run all chevy's for trucks, we have 4 02 6.0 silverados, a 04 3500 with a dmax and a 5500 w/ a dmax. Those duramax engines are the balls, great fuel economy with more power then you would ever be able to safely use for towing... they jsut rip. In the 4 02's we have, we did nothing but oil changes and brakes in them, they jsut run... period. As for ford... I'm not a ford guy, but im not about to go and bash someones liking. There great trucks, but at this ski area we used to run fords... and we can safely say we will never again. We had a pair of 92's. THose rotted out like you would not beleive, went through front ends like tanks of gas. Just horrible. Then in 94 we got a good old power stroke 1 ton ford... non-turbo deisel... u know the one im talkin about, the most powerless engine international ever made... but would most likely run with absolutely no oil pressure... We went through 3 front ends and 2 auto tranny's in 11 years... but keep inb mind, that was 11 years, but only 35k. we sold it with jsut under 36k. Bottom line is, even tho they are ifs, id take a chevy any day (already did... 02 extra cab longbed dmax, white, loaded) and most likely a dodge too. But couldn't decide between the two if i hadto, i only bought a dmax cause it has 22k on it and it was for sale for 22k lol. just stay away from fords... and again, im not bashings at all, im jsut saying. there all good trucks, some are jsut mroe durable then others... hope my usless rambling helped you out a little dude. later days