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gearhead313
09-27-2004, 10:13 AM
Well..there was one thread on nagca bout these, but not a lot of good info.

I wanted some more educated opinions on these and if they will work on a grand. I am asking b/c i can get a pretty good deal on them through a friend of mine....who has them in stock. It would save me more than 1200 bucks to go airshocks rather than coilovers.

I wanted to make a decision relatively soon so i know what brackets to weld onto my axles.

BMRisko
09-27-2004, 12:19 PM
The consensus is that a ZJ is really too heavy for these. Search over on POR for lots of good info.

Alaska ZJ
09-27-2004, 04:54 PM
I don't see why they wouldn't work. Just make sure you get the bigger ones. They are well within the load capacity of a ZJ. Hell the TJ guys use them all the time.

IMO coils and shocks are just fine.

robselina
09-27-2004, 05:38 PM
belavista did a very nice article about these in pirate4x4 tech, check it out.

Risko's right though, they're only good for about 1000lbs per corner, so you're probably too heavy.....

gearhead313
09-27-2004, 05:51 PM
if weight is the most important issue, i'll c if i can find a way to get it weighed....since i have the axles out of mine right now!


Im not saying there is anything wrong with springs and shocks, but i just have a desire to be different....which is why ive been doing my ZJ instead of a ghey TJ or something.

Cody
09-27-2004, 11:53 PM
They are nice and simple since you don't have to worry about spring pads and such, but for the front of a ZJ, they just won't be enough. Most people (including Billvista) basically say that you get what you pay for--meaning that the airshox are a cheaper alternative, but still not quite the same thing as coilovers. I think the airshox would work ok in teh back of a ZJ, but you would probably be better off running coilovers up front--more support, more adjustability, overall better performance especially under the weight of a ZJ.

If I can ever justify spending more money, I'll move my SAW's up front and run the 16" Airshox out back. Probably won't happen though.

Cody

How they would save you 1200 bucks I can't imagine. I figure SAW's you'll be into 7-800 per pair w/ coils (assuming you just do the dual rate stuff and don't mess around with tender coils etc.). So that puts you at 1600 for all 4. Air shox are 200 bucks a pop, maybe a little less. So if you get raped on coilovers, and can get a deal on airshox, you may have 800-900 difference. Probably closer to 500 though.

gearhead313
09-28-2004, 10:28 AM
As far as the cost goes, i figured $500 a corner for loaded bilstein's. Thats $2000.

I can go hand pick my air shox from the friend of mine who just stocks them for 220 a piece. If he gave them to me for say 200, thats $800 total. Hence my $1200 savings number.


I'd hate to wait longer (due to financial issues) to go coilovers when i could make air shox work, in a quicker amount of time.

Cody
09-28-2004, 03:17 PM
Well, you should be able to pick up coilovers way cheaper than that, and airshox slightly cheaper. Especially if you're looking at 12's and 14's. The 16" coilovers get more spendy, but trust me, you'll never find a point where you'll say to yourself, "man, I would have made it over that if I had only purchased the 16's instead of the 14's"

You could probably run the 16" air shox out back and run the 12 or 14" coilovers up front. Either way in back, you'll be mounting them in the cargo area so whats an extra inch or two when it doens't cost you extra on the shock.

Yeah, I understand the money thing. But for some reason, there is never enough money to do it right the first time, but there always seems to be money to do it over again once you realize what you did wrong. Look at me, I run a front 44. I know exactly how that is.


Cody

Alaska ZJ
09-28-2004, 05:57 PM
They are good for 1k per corner of "Sprung Weight" so remove all the weight of the axles for your calculations.If you have the 4.0 in front I can't see a problem, V8......maybe?

Cody
09-28-2004, 07:44 PM
They are good for 1k per corner of "Sprung Weight" so remove all the weight of the axles for your calculations.If you have the 4.0 in front I can't see a problem, V8......maybe?

You do know that the 4.0 is heavier right? At least the block is. I remember somone coming up with weight differences between the two motors, dressed, and their wasn't much difference.

Billvista's buggy was near the limit of their weight capabilities, and his buggy couldn't weigh as much as a ZJ decked out for battle.

Cody

gearhead313
09-28-2004, 09:18 PM
I've also heard the 4.0 and the v8 weigh very similar, no real proof though.


I have the axles and such out right now, so it would be perfect to get weighed. I just dont have anywhere to take it to weigh it. I am guessing the only good place would be a truck weigh station. I guess go get my flat bed weighed then go get the zj and then get it weighed with it on there and get the difference. That doesn't help me with front to back weight though. So im stumped for now.



I think he only had the 18" travel ones.... i'll have to find out tomorrow. Thats probably too long anyway.

robselina
09-28-2004, 11:40 PM
curious about the whole engine weight thing....if they weigh the same, why do 4.0L rigs come w/ different springs? Also, different lift heights seem to be reached with 4.0s vs the 318s....wonder what the weight of the whole drivetrain is, since maybe tranny options add another couple of pounds or something....

I'm ignorant on this, not trying to add fuel to the fire, just curious....

Cody
09-29-2004, 03:35 AM
Yeah, it's hard to say. The engine wieght thing came up on JU a long time ago and from what I remember, the 4.0 block is heavier than the 5.2, but once you add all the accessories (manifolds, etc) the v8 ends up being slightly heavier--but not enough to really make a difference. That 4.0 block is a huge bitch.

I htink something we need to remember, is that a good majority of our weight is up front. You figure a stock ZJ weighs in right around 4000 lbs so if it's a 70/30 weight split that puts 2800 lbs up front. I can't imagine there is 800 lbs worth of d30, p225's, and suspension up front. even if there is that leaves you with 1000 lbs sprung per front corner which is the known max for those air shox. I think the front/rear weight distribution might even be greater than that--you have to figure most of the weight of hte tranny/t-case are up front in addition to the motor. Thats assuming stock--add skidplates and bumper/winch and you're even heavier.

The transmission options probably effect the weight, and lord knows the 249 is much heavier than a 231 (but I think it's probably about the same as a 242).

And yes, an 18 is way too much shock. You could never use that much travel.

Cody

gearhead313
10-05-2004, 08:41 AM
I think I may have come to a conclusion... regardless of weither it will work good or not. (its only metal, i can change it around later)

I am going to rig up a pair per corner in the front. Obviously i'll have to keep the pressures perfectly matched and the geometry extremely dialed in. As far as mocking up the axle/unibody mounts, thats not my main concern.

Its still going to be cheaper for me to do this....or should i say 'try' this. There might be cheaper coilovers i could get out there, but I dont know where that might be and until someone would show me where, this is what Im going to do.

Im sure most people will say, "wtf r u doing, don't be ghey and just run coilovers...you'll be happier in the end." I agree with this....and to understand where Im coming from, i would rather try something different and have the opertunity to build something different like this than to just go with the flow and not be different. ...which is why i have a grand instead of a TJ. Thats about it. I have to sell one of my other cars first before i can get the money to start...(and to see if i can find a HP60 for the front instead of my HP44)

Cody
10-06-2004, 05:56 PM
Good luck to you. I understand wanting to do womething different.

FWIW, you can get DT coilovers for ~600/pair loaded with dual springs, and SAW's run ~100 more than that.

The Sway Away's are built much nicer and worth the extra bit of cash.

Good luck with your project and let us know how it works out.

Cody