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View Full Version : Polish Turds D30HP/D44 or Fresh Turds D44HP/ 9" ?



LouisianaZJ
09-09-2004, 02:31 AM
OK ive been thinking about re-gearing cause it needs it really bad with 3.55's. Ive been having trouble deciding between building the current D30/D44 with 4.88s or selling the D30/D44 (probably get $500-$600 total for both) and getting something bigger built. The biggest I would run with the d30 and d44 would be 35's and with a hp44/ 9" it would be 37's and 5.13's.
I dont care about width, I can run full width w/o trouble from the law around here.

Price breakdown for D30/D44:
www.completeoffroad.com

INSTALL KIT-D44
$74.00 $74.00
TRUE TRAC POSI -30 SPLINE 3.92-5.89
$309.00 $309.00
U-JOINT-AXLE 5-260X DANA 44 DANA 30
$24.00 $48.00
SEAL-INNER AXLE-DANA 44 STD
$7.00 $14.00
CARRIER DANA 30 3.73 UP (4 SERIES)
$59.00 $59.00
4.88 REVERSE RING & PINION GEARS
$139.00 $139.00
INSTALL KIT-D30 REVERSE
$74.00 $74.00
4.88 GEARS (4.88,4.89) DANA SPICER D44
$159.00 $159.00
587 VENT-DIFFERENTIAL
$3.00 $3.00
669 AXLE BEARING DANA 44 SET 10
$29.00 $58.00
747 SEAL-INNER AXLE D30R
$8.00 $16.00

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Sub Total: $953.00
Shipping: $0.00
Handling: $8.95
<<< Continue Shopping... >>>
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Total: $961.95

LABOR
$600 install gears and all parts, weld axle tubes, swapping the old lockright into the new gearing

Grand Total $1560

Does this look OK price wise?


the d44 front/9" rear would probably cost about the same in gearing/parts and all, probably a couple hundred more for brackets $200, and new brakes components f/r $200 and steering $200, and 5 steel wheels with proper pattern $100 . plus the housings themselves . So probably about $7/800 more plus the housings$$ which I am guesstimating $200/ea from a yard. got some good ideas from this thread: http://www.jeepsunlimited.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=564288


I dunno, just sort of thinking out loud

LouisianaZJ
09-09-2004, 02:52 AM
btw,

hp D44 with locking hubs drivers drop = 70-80's F250 and...
9" = 70's?? broncos? and...

luvthejeep
09-09-2004, 08:11 AM
biggest thing i can tell ya is that im very happy with my hp44, 9" swap- dont pull a 44 from a 250 though- the 250 44 is about 4-5" wider then a 9" out of a bronco or a f seriese- and diffrent bolt pattern

Swamp boy
09-09-2004, 08:23 AM
Ditto ... Look for a set of axles from the same truck or similar. So you get the same width and bolt pattern.

Also.. If you are going to upgrade to a 44 its not that much of an upgrade..
You can go with a super 30 kit and it will be just as strong...
Regear and super 30 and you are set...(Super 30 kit comes with a locker..)

The 9" is much stronger than the 44 but have you ever broken anything ?
YOu would probobly be fine with the 44 and a locker .. You only have a 4.0

You will be fine with those axles.. Its not like we have any extreme rock crawling here in Louserana ... :D

Alaska ZJ
09-09-2004, 09:25 AM
just spend the 2k on a 60 front and 14bolt/70/60 rear. you can get them with 4.56 gears all day long and I found mine with 4.88.

You will be much happier and troublefree.

Cody
09-09-2004, 01:52 PM
front 60.

seriously that is the only upgrade worth doing. the 44 isn't worth the time, and the super 30 isn't worth the time. I would beef a hp30 before I would put in a 44--unless width is what you are looking for.

Cody

LouisianaZJ
09-09-2004, 03:53 PM
yeah I was thinkin about puttin in the warn hubs/shafts then I could spool/weld it and sell the lockright, but that would put me back another $500 or so at least and I would still have the D30 knuckles and tiny brakes on there.

Really it would not cost me hardly anything more to put in a 9" in the back over redoing the 44 cause the 44 needs almost everything gone thru (everything except the shafts).. and if I was going wider out back I was gonna go wider up front...


So you think the D30 would hold up to 35's and a lockright and 4.88's. I'm pretty sure the gears will be fine, but what I am concerned aout breaking are the hubs and shafts constantly.

I just having deciding if I should spend the $$ on the current axles or wait and do something that would allow me to run 37's+ eventually for about $1000 more

what can I get a front 60 out of?

I found this pic of an XJ with the HP 44, 9" and 38's and front leaf conversion
http://pics.montypics.com/Jeep1991/2004-04-11/1081745189_Marc__1.jpg

Cody
09-09-2004, 05:31 PM
I think the only reason to go to a 44 would be for a stronger ring gear, and wider stance. yeah, the knuckles and stuff are a little bigger, but the shafts joints are a wash.

I think a hp 30 w/ 4.88's and 35's is fine as far as shaft strength goes. The part that is trouble would be the ring gear/diff stuff.

Who cares about hubs anyways. Half the time you can fix a hub faster than it takes the next guy to line up for the obstacle.

Cody

Raacerx
09-09-2004, 07:48 PM
I did the HP44 because of a couple factors. First and foremost was the steering. The D30 has NO good steering options in my opinion. Second reason was width; 37s are big to me and I wanted to be more stable but I didnt want a 69" wide D60. Third reason was the availability of parts. Fourth reason was I wanted manual hubs. Fifth reason was strength over the D30. You guys can argue all you want that the D30 is just as strong but for christs sake, its not. I havent been hearing about anyone breaking alloy shafts and CTMs with 37s on a 44, and putting those on a D30 is going to move more stress to the ring/pinion. The ring gear on the 44 is bigger, there is a lot more pinion contact in the lower gear ratios whereas the D30 has like 2 teeth engaged, the knuckles are stronger and you dont have the balljoints in the axle, and the tubes are freakin 1/2" thick. There are also many more brake options for the D44 and the ability to interchange parts from a wide variety of other vehicles. Finally, my ZJ is already a heavy POS and I didnt want to add an another extra 600 pounds to it. Argue all you want, but those are still all legit reasons.

Thats not to say I dont agree with the D60 philosophy. A simple 760x ujoint in one hand and a D60 ujoint in the other is enough to understand that. But thats a lot of money and weight and size. Just if your curious, heres a quick breakdown on my axles.

- Hp44/9" from 1977 F150 = $250 ($100 after selling the knuckles, brakes, 3rd member)
44
- 4.56 gears and installation kit = $250 new
- Lockrite locker = $165 used
- Gear/locker installation = $100
- Brackets = $10 of steel and the D30 spring perches
- Chevy flattop knuckles = $100 milled, drilled, and tapped
- Chevy caliper brackets = $25 new
- Chevy small bearing spindles = $80 used
- Spicer balljoints = $80 new
- Partsmike histeer arms and hardware = $218 new
- Chevy "1 ton" TREs = $180 (ripped off)
- 4 Poly Performance tube adaptors = $60
- 6 feet of 1.375"x0.188" DOM tubing = $60
- Chevy 1/2 ton remanufactured brakes = $60 with core charge

9"
- 3rd member with 4.56 gears and Detroit locker, already setup = $400 barely used.
- Brackets = $15 in steel?

Well see what the hell I have to say after Ive actually wheeled the 44 good, im only going by my experience so far. However I have absolutely no faith in the stock shafts and 760 u-joints, but Ive planned all along to get some alloys and CTMs.

Troy
09-10-2004, 10:48 AM
An F-250 front 44 can have wagoneer knuckles with Chevy hubs and spindles installed on it like mine does. That'll give it the same bolt pattern as the rear - 5 on 5.5".

I agree with Cody that I'm not happy with my front 44 install at this time - 3 times out - 3 times busted. I'm going to try chromoly shafts and high strength u-joints before I try a complete upgrade. I'm trying to avoid running a boat anchor front axle.

nathaniel
09-10-2004, 11:44 AM
A front shaved 60 isn't a boat anchor. Just take a look at Corey's and you will no what I mean. Heavy yes but virtually no loss of clearance compared to a 44. Those cromolly shafts are $$$

For 35's hp30 and 44 are fine.

BigDaveZJ
09-10-2004, 12:51 PM
A front shaved 60 isn't a boat anchor. Just take a look at Corey's and you will no what I mean. Heavy yes but virtually no loss of clearance compared to a 44. Those cromolly shafts are $$$

For 35's hp30 and 44 are fine.

Corey's has been shaved considerably, but doesn't get hung up too much on stuff either. Of course the Chalupa's sitting on 38's, but you get the idea. I want to say Trango was able to take over an inch out of the housing. Your diff is gonna get hung up no matter what you do to it (short of portals :drool: ) if you wheel it hard enough. Just get a good diff guard, like a Crane or BlueTorch, and beat on it!

LouisianaZJ
09-10-2004, 09:10 PM
[quote=nathaniel]an inch out of the housing. Your diff is gonna get hung up no matter what you do to it (short of portals :drool: ) if you wheel it hard enough. Just get a good diff guard, like a Crane or BlueTorch, and beat on it!

baaahhhh! I'm going with www.cleargearz.com bitoch

where can I get the best price on these crane or blew torch covers?

Jim311
09-10-2004, 10:04 PM
What's the verdict on those clear covers? Garbage?

LouisianaZJ
09-10-2004, 10:37 PM
they might be more impact resistant than a std cover, but when it does fail it is going to be a big cracked plastic POS, nawt a dented piece of steel that can be hammered out...they look gehy too

the blue torch is about $140 @ www.crawltech.com im probably gonna get something like that for the front and for the rear Im gonna just get one of those cover plate things like this: http://rustysoffroad.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=DS44&Categor y_Code=DIF

Raacerx
09-10-2004, 11:26 PM
What's the verdict on those clear covers? Garbage?

Ive thought about using plastic since its super easy for me to CNC plastic. CNCing steel is a whole different story for me. Ive used plastic bashguards on my bicycle to protect the chainring and they've taken 100x more beating then aluminum and about 50x more beating then steel. Im toying with the idea but it definitely doesnt slid off things as good and I wonder about the heat?

Troy
09-11-2004, 08:57 AM
I've got a warn diff cover and I've bashed the hell out of it. It's stout and fairly cheap at around $70.

Jim311
09-11-2004, 09:41 PM
I run in lots of deep water, so the aspect of being able to actually see the gear oil and the condition of the gears would be awesome.

Raacerx
09-11-2004, 10:50 PM
I run in lots of deep water, so the aspect of being able to actually see the gear oil and the condition of the gears would be awesome.

Oh is the whole entire thing clear plastic? I was only thinking it was a guard you bolted to the stock one.

LouisianaZJ
09-12-2004, 01:14 AM
would the axles out of a 1994 dodge 2500 4x4 be good?
D60 front drivers drop, D70 rear it comes with brakes and steering. no lockout hubs though, it uses a vac disconnect to engage the front.

I could sell my rear D44 on JU for one million dollars to recover costs

luvthejeep
09-12-2004, 11:32 AM
it depends on what tire you want to run- i would say 37 or below 44 is great- above that go with the 60- if you do alot of rocks then a 60 is a more viable option- but i whent with my 44 and ive been very happy with it-

Jim311
09-14-2004, 09:11 PM
I run in lots of deep water, so the aspect of being able to actually see the gear oil and the condition of the gears would be awesome.

Oh is the whole entire thing clear plastic? I was only thinking it was a guard you bolted to the stock one.


Yeah, they make covers that are one solid piece of see-thru plastic. Supposedly they're just as tough as steel but I have my doubts. It would just be nice to easily see my gears and how the fluid looks.

Alaska ZJ
09-15-2004, 09:25 AM
Get the shizz out of the dodge

you can easily get rid of that vacum stuff for about 15 bucks

Kraqa
09-22-2004, 08:34 PM
those pastic coveres get foggy and scratched in no time i don't care what they say. they will become opake (?spelling) in no time. i wouldn't wast my money. open the diff by the plug suck some fluid out takes 5 min see it it needs to be changed. then you can have a super beefy cover out o 3/8 or something. and not worry about it.

Cue-Ball
11-12-2004, 11:48 AM
Okay I have read the whole D30 vs. 44.

My question is if we beef up the axles of the 30 and put say a super 30, locker, warn hubs and CTM joints, aren't we just putting all the force onto the R&P so that becomes the part that will break.

Isn't it better to have the weakes link a hub, so that it can easily (and cheaply) be repaired. With R&P breakage there iss alot of work and money to replace gears.

Am I missing something?

Troy
11-13-2004, 04:50 AM
My question is if we beef up the axles of the 30 and put say a super 30, locker, warn hubs and CTM joints, aren't we just putting all the force onto the R&P so that becomes the part that will break.

Mostly yes. If you're running hub fuses (which you didn't mention) then the R&P will be less likely to break - but you're overall setup will be more likely to fail since the fuse will blow before anything else.

I've found that with my 44 running stock shafts, stock u-joints, and warn premiums that I've only blown 1 hub and god only knows why it blew - the hub shattered into about 15 pieces and the u-joint had damage to it too. I mostly blow u-joints in my 44 setup and I have to believe that this is happening... the axle loads up a lot and as the 38's slip and grab there's too much non-constant torsional twist on the shafts causing a lot of that torsion to be applied to the u-joints over and over and thus causing the joints to break. That's why I've decided to run 4340 chromolly shafts with CTMs (yes CTMs - got them at a discount from a firend that won a set for free, otherwise I'd probably have tried a Randy's super joint).

Nordic1
11-13-2004, 06:08 AM
I will probably be building a hp44 in the front for two reasons... knuckle strength (so I cna add a ram later on... or I might ram a 30 and just be careful with it) . THe other reason being I want to clock my pinion upwards while having my spring perches sit at 0*. I will play with a 30 and see if I can do it with that but I'll prob build a 44 solely for this reason. Also 44s have flat top knuckles so those guys with inverted T can switch over to cross-over steering and ditch that ghey dead spot in the steering.

LouisianaZJ
11-17-2004, 08:06 PM
well since someone bumped this back to the top. ill give a little update on what i decided

i found a rear D44 with precision 4.56 and a full detroit from a dude in houston which he said was re-built 7k ago. so we are going to be putting that in.
after that ive decided to put 4.56, the old lock-wrong, new spicer 760's, brace the LCA/UCA mounts) in the D30. and im going to carry complete spares for the front (inner and outer shafts + hubs)
i snagged like 3 u-bolted pinion yokes off e-bay probably around $30 for all (ebay user rust2gold or something has them ) IIRC

i suspect it will hold up fairely well with (eventually) 35's and a light foot

if i start contantly braking shit on the D30 i will probably just try to go with a d60 (mabey a HPD44 if i found a good deal on one already set-up) and convert the rear to the same lug patten via spacers

anyways, when all is said and done and i sell the old iron XJ D44 w/tracklock i think i will be under $7-800 net

RufftyTuffty
11-18-2004, 10:59 AM
Been abusing my 30 with the Superior EVO's for about 9 months now...on some nasty chit down here and they are working like a champ.

FYI...a YJ with currie 9's has grenaded 2 u joints in the same time frame...running the same stuff.

If your got 7 bills it may be the way to go ...FOR NOW...if you have money in the lockers and gears.

I'm can't comment on whether they will last in mud terrain..ie. high wheel speed....AZ is crawlin.

*Prolly cursed myself now* :?

Nordic1
11-18-2004, 11:29 AM
You're running an ARB on your 30? Have you broken anything up front?

RufftyTuffty
11-18-2004, 06:34 PM
You're running an ARB on your 30? Have you broken anything up front?

Yep...the newer type (RD100) ARB...well it was new 18mths ago.

Note - i ONLY run the ARB for the obstacle, then turn it off.

When i broke the stock CV axle i upgraded to u joints and then broke 2 760s....had enough of that and got the EVO's in march....haven't broken since then :D

ALOT of nasty runs since then....flex, binding, bound and all the caps are still seated nicely :shock:

RufftyTuffty
11-18-2004, 06:45 PM
IMHO there is no middle ground here...44's or 9's have the same weakness, if you want to run the nasty stuff and you wont to run it with 35, 36 or 37" tires then is no compromise.

I running my 30 on the EVO diet until it pukes....hopefully by that time i have got the $$$ for a 60.

Go BIG or go HOME :wink:

LouisianaZJ
11-18-2004, 07:55 PM
what are EVO's?
are they like CTM's? how much?

RufftyTuffty
11-19-2004, 10:47 AM
http://www.superioraxle.com/htmlfolder/evol.html

EVO's are Superior's Cromemoly axle combo kit...basically an inner & outer with a 760 c/w full circle C clips.

They come fully assembled and just slot right in :D

I got mine from DriveTrainDirect i think they were $730 to the door.

LouisianaZJ
11-19-2004, 03:14 PM
that's nice and all, but $700 is a little more than i care to spend on a turdy

Kraqa
11-19-2004, 03:27 PM
for a few more $ you could get a 60

RufftyTuffty
11-19-2004, 03:33 PM
Hmmm...last time i looked a setup 60 was $5,000+

I'm not talking about boat archors here mind....

Kraqa
11-19-2004, 03:48 PM
well i was looking at building it my self and i could get one complete for 1200. then a weekend or so setting it up. and then the required bearings and brakes. hofully not balls joints. and i bet i could essily come in uner 1800. i get cost plus 10% on all auto parts so that does halp. but still. i would much rather spend 1800 of a d60 then 700 on a 30.

RufftyTuffty
11-20-2004, 11:14 AM
A front 60 for $1,800....could be done....but what locker are youy going to use? ARB....add another $700....can you get the same gear ratio? add another $200....what steering system? add another $200...new drive shaft? add another $250.....I was getting carried away there.

Sure it can be done....but imo the front diff clearance is very important...not only underneath for rocks....but on top for axle stuff.

I'm a believer of buying a 60 for life option....like a TERA CRD or PROROCK or enven build up a CRANE...build it once and build it right.....BUT not everyone can go this route they are high zut.

Remember the ZJ platform will only last so long.....if you stay with ithe sport you want to be able to strip the ZJ parts for a buggy build.

LouisianaZJ
11-20-2004, 11:51 AM
i wuz figuring about 3g to get a 60 front going.

lincoln locker, no $700 ARB

gearhead313
11-21-2004, 03:23 PM
wow... all that price talk makes me feel AMAZINGLY good about what i have in my front HP60 so far!! :shock:

Kraqa
11-21-2004, 06:00 PM
i will lincoln lock all my junk. except for the front i got right now. no sense in locking it with 38's...tick tick tick tick.......i think i here a time bomb.


ya it all depends on if your looking to get the 60 under the truck or build it up to the tits then put it in.

RufftyTuffty
11-24-2004, 10:51 AM
Well...i did put a curse on myself....god damn snapped the stub on the passengers side.

The mitigating excuse is that is was a real nasty bind up obsticle, a 3' boulder, 3' deep crack and loose sand....basically this is where the saying "Between a rock and a hard place"...must have come from.

The ujoint and ears are fine....i can't believe that i snapped the shaft clean in two before the 760 would let loose.

Anywayz, looks like it's covered by warranty :D update when it returns.

nate
11-26-2004, 03:09 PM
Are you running the LP or HP?

Alaska ZJ
11-26-2004, 06:57 PM
give me 5k and you will get a reasonable hooker for a couple nights while I install the 60......

RufftyTuffty
11-27-2004, 10:44 AM
Are you running the LP or HP?

LP.

~Mike

RufftyTuffty
11-27-2004, 10:47 AM
give me 5k and you will get a reasonable hooker for a couple nights while I install the 60......

:P LOL....

Looks like there 'might' be a local deal on a used Tera 60...should find out today.

Fingers & toes crossed,
~Mike

nate
11-27-2004, 05:24 PM
Wow... Did God bless that axle? :shock:



Are you running the LP or HP?

LP.

~Mike

LouisianaZJ
11-27-2004, 05:39 PM
Wow... Did Nate Cannon bless that axle? :shock:



Are you running the LP or HP?

LP.

~Mike
:twisted:

Jim311
11-27-2004, 07:42 PM
The parts for his LP were harvested from God's own chariot! Made of Ubertanium and blessed with the fervor of a thousand virgins!


:shock: