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View Full Version : Transmission Letting Go?



Raacerx
09-03-2004, 04:18 PM
Little long:

Tranny has been acting a little weird lately. Holding 2nd gear longer then normal, little things like that. Then on Monday I was cruising up a slight incline on the freeway going about 65mph when all of a sudden it started to shudder and slip pretty hard. Felt and sounded like it was coming from the transmission / transfer case area. Then the thing just kicked completely into neutral. I happened to be blocked by 2 semis on my right so I had to slow down to 40mph in the fast lane. Shifted it into neutral a couple times and then it finally caught and went back into gear.

So now whenever Im in Overdrive and the Torque Converter is locked and there is any kind of strain (like giving gas up an incline or trying to make it downshift to 3rd to pass someone), the transmission it starts to slip and shudder and vibrate pretty hard. But it will eventually shift into 3rd. So Im thinking there is definitely something up with the Torque Converter. It seems to work fine with Overdrive turned off and I can floor it pretty good in 1-3 gear and it wont slip or shudder or anything. Fluid is up to level and smells fine to me. There is some oil around the pan but nothing more then normal.

Aprilzwarrior suggested it could also be my transfer case letting go, so Im curious if anyone else thinks it could be a possibility. Im pretty discouraged at this point because I just pretty much finished the ZJ the way I wanted, and now I have to deal with this. I JUST had the transmission rebuilt 30k miles ago, but it was like a 24k warranty.

Its also hard for me to diagnose the around town driving characteristics cause I have a knarly Detroit that thunks and clunks and snaps all the time. Thanks. And yes Im going to get it diagnosed but I really dont want to drive it until I have to.

BigDaveZJ
09-03-2004, 05:32 PM
That doesn't seem to be consistent with t-case stuff to me. No clue on what to look for though!

cherokeekid
09-03-2004, 05:43 PM
tps

robselina
09-03-2004, 06:54 PM
sounds like a fluid pressure problem

**until you get it figured out don't drive the damn thing or you'll make it worse and end up with a rebuilt trans in no time**

anyway, what year? From what I gather, these trannies have issues with their governor valves not holding pressure and sticking and doing weird stuff. That would sorta explain your situation. It's what killed my trans too. If not that, I would suspect your torque converter or any of your fluid paths of being blocked. I'd start by checking the filter as far as that's concerned.....speaking of which, you sure you're full on tranny fluid?

Raacerx
09-03-2004, 09:35 PM
sounds like a fluid pressure problem

**until you get it figured out don't drive the damn thing or you'll make it worse and end up with a rebuilt trans in no time**

anyway, what year? From what I gather, these trannies have issues with their governor valves not holding pressure and sticking and doing weird stuff. That would sorta explain your situation. It's what killed my trans too. If not that, I would suspect your torque converter or any of your fluid paths of being blocked. I'd start by checking the filter as far as that's concerned.....speaking of which, you sure you're full on tranny fluid?

full on tranny fluid, says so in neutral when hot. I did notice some coolant drips coming from the tranny cooling line or dripping down the line, but its maybe one drip an hour. Coolant is full in the resouvoir (although I dont have a cap, its taped shut, dunno if that matters for pressure or something). I really need to drive the thing and I sort of have been. No long trips but I have to get to school and back (5-6 miles). I havent dropped the pan yet and looked for any signs, gonna do that tomorrow or Sunday.

I also thought about the TPS, cherokeekid, but it seems to be ok according to my electrometer thingie and its not quite consistent with what ive heard a bad TPS does. Is there a better way to check it? I would think if the tranny was overheating or something that the OD light would come on.

robselina
09-05-2004, 12:27 AM
my trans went downhill in a period of about 2 months. Never overheated according to the computer, never switched the OD off like it says it's supposed to.

If you're lucky, it's just your filter clogged up and you can get by with a new filter, if not, going to be more serious.

Right now, by the sounds of it, you don't have full pressure on your clutches so when you shift gears, or they slip on the highway like you mentioned, you're getting a lot of friction there and you're torching those things. Every time you shift it's like 50 regular shifs in terms of wear, so keep that in mind when it comes to driving it as is....when you drop the pan, if you've got more than a tea spoon worth of shavings, or the filter is totally clogged up, you're pretty much up shit creek already, but throw in a new filter, you might get lucky for another 5k miles or something.....

Raacerx
09-08-2004, 09:11 PM
Hey so I dropped my pan today to check stuff out. Couple things.

The fluid was really thin, atleast it seemed thinner then normal, but then again it was also very hot (I got it all over me and I waited like an hour). I cant tell if it smells burnt or not. It smells different then new tranny oil, thats for sure.

When I dropped the pan, I let it drain some more and essentially it had stopped except for some drips. So I began to unbolt the filter and it dumped like another half pint. Made me think the filter could have been super clogged, but then again I dunno how fast shit is supposed to flow through there. There were visibile miniscule chips on the filter.

In the bottom of the pan, the magnet was covered in about 2mm of sludge. Not really any visibile metal shavings on the magnetic, only microscopic pieces of metal that caught the light. There was no other sludge anywhere in the pan. BUT, there were definitely some metal shavings. Not a lot, maybe enough to fill the bottom of a thimble...I dunno how else to describe how much there was. I wish I had taken a picture but after I dumped the fluid from the pan to get a look, there wasnt much left. The thing was, it didnt seem to be sticking to the magnet, so Im guessing its aluminum?! Whats aluminum in a tranny?

So besides that stuff, I also want to know if I should drain my torque converter and what the correct procedure for that is. Im thinking since Im pretty sure thats where my problems are stemming from that its a good idea. In that case, how much fluid do I need? I only got 6 pints of ATF3. And, just to make sure (Ive never done my tranny before), I use ATF+3 with my 46RH right?

Anything else I can look at or adjust from just having the pan off? I pressed the overdrive button today once while I was in overdrive and it slipped and shuddered pretty hard going into 3rd.

Thanks guys. Your help means a lot cause if I cant get this figured out and it ends up that I need a tranny...Im gonna be done with ZJs. Ill swap in a rebuilt tranny and then sell the thing. If I dont need a new tranny, Ill keep it. Thats what its down too.

Thanks.

PS. It definitely wasnt a teaspoon of shavings. It was maybe a 1/4 of a teaspoon at most.

robselina
09-08-2004, 09:59 PM
based on what you mentioned, I'd say replace the filter and fill 'er back up. The fluid does sound torched, but that would be fitting for a fluid pressure problem too.

draining the TC properly is a hard thing to do, tranny shops can force fluid through them to clean them, but in your situation, it doesn't sound like it would be worth it at this point. I figure tranny fluid is cheap, so put a new filter in (you need one regardless) and fill it back up with regular ATF. If it is still acting up, i'd drop in a new TC, they're only like $50 from a tranny shop. No point doing it yet though, you might be able to avoid it and all you'll be out is $10 worth of ATF if you do need to do something like that....if the filter doesn't do it, I'd also be looking into governor valve replacements, since I gather they can be replaced without cracking open the main tranny case...

Main thing is that what you describe in terms of what was in the pan doesn't sound too bad, so I'd say your tranny is still salvagable at this point....

Anyway, best of luck man!

Rob

Raacerx
09-08-2004, 10:22 PM
Thanks for the advice Rob, anything helps!

I just talked to Wayne of APS Transmissions. Hes gonna come down on Friday and drive the ZJ around and take a look at it. Im STOKED because his shop is an hour away from me and its up and over a couple thousand foot mountain so theres no way I could drive to him. Talk about a nice guy! Ive heard great things about him, but I mean willing to drive an hour to come check out a guys transmission?

He didnt have terribly encouraging words for me after I explained what has been happening but ... he wasnt pesimistic so hopefully it is salvageable. I know if I had the cash Id have him rebuild it solid in a second and just never worry about it again.

BMRisko
09-08-2004, 11:47 PM
Thanks for the advice Rob, anything helps!

I just talked to Wayne of APS Transmissions. Hes gonna come down on Friday and drive the ZJ around and take a look at it. Im STOKED because his shop is an hour away from me and its up and over a couple thousand foot mountain so theres no way I could drive to him. Talk about a nice guy! Ive heard great things about him, but I mean willing to drive an hour to come check out a guys transmission?

He didnt have terribly encouraging words for me after I explained what has been happening but ... he wasnt pesimistic so hopefully it is salvageable. I know if I had the cash Id have him rebuild it solid in a second and just never worry about it again.

I'd replace the filter and fluid first and add a bottle of the red LubeGard (Napa carries it). It is not a snake oil and I have had good success with it. Search on JU and tranzdude posted some good tech info. I did get a fully rebuilt Mopar 46RH for $1300 with a 36000 warranty from Stephen at Springdale Dodge the last time I replaced my tranny. However, the shuddering under load sounds like my last tranny before it went BOOM....but seriously, fluid and filter change first.

Raacerx
09-09-2004, 12:00 AM
I changed my fluid and filter this evening, so we'll see how it goes tomorrow. I drove it around some tonight but its dark so I didnt do it for long. Seems to definitely be an improvement. I gave it enough gas on the freeway to downshift and it did so without complaining. However I've developed a REAL nasty vibration at 60-65mph. Kinda start to feel it around 55mph. Seems to calm down after 70mph and blend in with all the other sounds and vibes.

robselina
09-09-2004, 06:07 PM
sure it's a tranny vibe?

Raacerx
09-10-2004, 12:20 AM
sure it's a tranny vibe?

no no, Im hoping its not a tranny vibe. But it just started in the last couple days. The output of the TC seems fine. The other possible culprit is a worn out wheel bearing in the 9". Dunno. Actually maybe its my hubs or something...Ill check that out tomorrow morning. I cant really tell where its coming from, the whole jeep vibrates pretty hard.

I drove the ZJ today though and the action of the transmission is definitely improved. Not solved, but definite improvement. It doesnt hold 2nd gear nearly as long, and it definitely feels more powerful like more power is being transfered, but now overdrive kinda soft clunks now, however its not kicking out or slipping so far. Fingers crossed. Like I said, Waynes coming down tomorrow night and checking it out.

Raacerx
09-12-2004, 12:29 AM
Well, if anyone is curious, Wayne of APS Transmissions came down and drove the Jeep for a little today. We couldn't really get it to slip in overdrive anymore, which is a damn good sign for me! Seems the filter/fluid has helped a huge amount. He advised me not to doing anything yet and wait awhile and see if the problem resurfaces again. He actually thought Id be good for quite awhile.

I would just like to say, Wayne has been one of the nicest guys Ive met so far. He drove all the way down here, a 2 hour round trip, just to come drive my Jeep and help answer some questions. He was super knowledgable and definitely wasnt trying to sell me a damn thing; purely down there to help me out. He gave me some great advice and I definitely will be reffering every single person I know to him because hes such a nice, helpful, knowledgable guy. :doublethumbsup: When its time to do the transmission, if Im keeping the Jeep, I definitely will be taking it to him.

PS. Thats definitely the fastest and hardest my Jeep has ever been driven with me in the passenger seat. In fact, thats the fastest and hardest my Jeep has ever been driven period; atleast in its current configuration. 4.56s and 37s aint too bad!