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View Full Version : Cables for Limit straps? too jerky?



Trancezj
08-27-2004, 10:50 AM
I really really really need to have a "quick disco" type limit strap on the front. 9 x outta 10 I don't need nearly all my flex. I was thinking cables with some stout beaners(sp?) on each side from the sway bar links axle side to.... maybe the straight section of the sway bar or weld up some brackets in the fender well. I would use nylon straps but putting ends on it would prolly be an issue. I dunno. Do you think cables would "jerk" too hard?

JeepinHank
08-27-2004, 04:10 PM
I wouldn't think it'd be any jerkier (sp?) than Alaska's chains

Alaska ZJ
08-27-2004, 07:51 PM
Do it. Don't let these idiots tell you that they can tell the difference between a chain and a strap. Strap stretches what .002% and a Chain .001%

Over 10 inches of leangth.

Cable is the same.....do it.

Jim311
08-27-2004, 08:37 PM
I'd say cable stretches more than a chain. Dooo eeeet.

Trancezj
08-30-2004, 08:54 AM
Did it. Worked out great. We rode all day saturday and I wasn't contiuously over flexing. I could unhook it when I needed it. On the last hill climb it broke though. Not the cables, or anything I'd put together, but the sway bar links. I had them connected to stock sway bar links. I thought hell that'll be super strong. Wrong. Ripped the factory welds right off. Oh well, I'll have to put a bracket somewhere else.

cbassett
09-22-2004, 08:23 PM
Do it. Don't let these idiots tell you that they can tell the difference between a chain and a strap. Strap stretches what .002% and a Chain .001%

Over 10 inches of leangth.

Cable is the same.....do it.

Some straps stretch well more than .002%...........

Top strap is unused. Bottom strap was used once, in my driveway for a test fit, and limited travel just one time.
http://home.off-road.com/~bassettsbeast/images/tech_photos/suspension/rearend/straps/straps2.jpg


Here it is in action::roll:
http://home.off-road.com/~bassettsbeast/images/tech_photos/suspension/rearend/straps/straps3.jpg
That's right about 20% stretch over original length.



Poor Sway-A-Way gave up the ghost it's 2nd day of use..
http://home.off-road.com/~bassettsbeast/images/trips/JV/April2-4_2003/Jack/IMG_0896.JPG


Do NOT buy Sway-A-Way.
For a rock crawler, or anything else not bound to be jumped, save your pennies and use chain.




Limit straps are a must for longarmed ZJs, right David??

http://home.off-road.com/~bassettsbeast/images/trips/JV/April2-4_2003/Aftershock_Claw/IMG_0787.JPG

K2
09-23-2004, 05:23 AM
Bassett, it seems like it stretches the first few times, and stays stretched? Or are you saying they do have elasticity? Was it returning close to original?

K2

cbassett
09-23-2004, 12:54 PM
they're supposed to have minimal stretch, less than 10%. Mine kept stretching and stretching with each lift / reset of the hilift in my driveway. I had to put several twists in mine to get them back to the length I'd expected them to be, 19". They also had some elasticity; I had to jack up the side I was installing then install the strap.

BigDaveZJ
09-23-2004, 03:20 PM
For a rock crawler, or anything else not bound to be jumped, save your pennies and use chain.

And if we do jump our rigs?

Kraqa
09-23-2004, 05:28 PM
For a rock crawler, or anything else not bound to be jumped, save your pennies and use chain.

And if we do jump our rigs?


??????

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v280/Kraqa/thefinger.gif

cbassett
09-23-2004, 10:12 PM
For a rock crawler, or anything else not bound to be jumped, save your pennies and use chain.

And if we do jump our rigs?

Is that a legitimate question or an ill-fated attempt at humor?

BigDaveZJ
09-24-2004, 01:02 AM
For a rock crawler, or anything else not bound to be jumped, save your pennies and use chain.

And if we do jump our rigs?

Is that a legitimate question or an ill-fated attempt at humor?

That's actually a legit question! JpRngr and I, as well as few others, enjoy a good baja run in the ZJ's every now and then.

Sudz
07-10-2007, 07:37 PM
thread back from the dead :smt051

who makes sturdy limiting straps? - i need to do something with mine

http://www.the-jersey-devil.com/photopost/data/500/28100_7551-med.JPG

http://www.the-jersey-devil.com/photopost/showphoto.php?photo=14984&size=big&sort=1&cat=500

OverkillZJ
07-10-2007, 09:43 PM
I can't see it being any/worse than a chain, like Alaska said... As for my strap, I cant feel it. I assume a chain is the same.

BigDaveZJ
07-10-2007, 09:51 PM
Holy crap, some names in this thread I haven't seen in a looooooong time!!!!

OverkillZJ
07-10-2007, 09:57 PM
...didn't realize it was an old-ass thread....

That noted: My limit straps are from PRP, but they're so stiff anyway, if you can do chainc cheaper, do it.

zj95maxx
07-10-2007, 11:23 PM
Are we talking, chain as in like..http://www.acq.osd.mil/log/images/supply_chain.gif?
I assume yes, and this WOULD be a cheaper route, but wouldnt this cause massivly annoying ..chain banging sounds when driving?
Can anyone post pics of there rigs with the chain limiting straps?

OverkillZJ
07-10-2007, 11:30 PM
...They've been posted several times...

zj95maxx
07-10-2007, 11:37 PM
...They've been posted several times...
Yeah I searched chain limiting straps and limiting straps, I might be missing the threads then, sorry to ask. I will go back to searching:(

OverkillZJ
07-10-2007, 11:40 PM
Just saying... Havre you ever run a chain or a limiting strap? The majority in this thread that have posted have run one, the other,or both.

Yes, I just bitch slapped you.

zj95maxx
07-10-2007, 11:47 PM
Just saying... Havre you ever run a chain or a limiting strap? The majority in this thread that have posted have run one, the other,or both.

Yes, I just bitch slapped you.

Yes, yes you just E-slapped my face

But no, I need to order straps, I was looking at chadjins old thread about them and saw the length he was running for 7 1/2 inches of lift..I dont really know the size to get for mine, but I need to figure it out so my coils dont pop out, or i need to get rear post extensions in untill I CAN get straps..

or chains:smt033

MoonWorks
07-10-2007, 11:59 PM
I've already done post ext.'s in the rear on mine...but I still need straps. And bump stops that actually work. Ask me why my rear shocks are blown!!! :(

zj95maxx
07-11-2007, 12:03 AM
I've already done post ext.'s in the rear on mine...but I still need straps. And bump stops that actually work. Ask me why my rear shocks are blown!!! :(

Yeah..longer bumpstops in front and back would prob. help out too...more money..ugh

ATL ZJ
07-11-2007, 12:05 AM
I run chain in the front of mine. Two lengths off the lower motor mount bolts to a center point on the axle. They stretch and have limited adjustability that varies with the size of the chain's links. Unlike straps they tend to be either tight or slack- there isn't much in between.

welcome back cbassett.. haha

ELLLLLIOTTTTT
07-11-2007, 12:27 AM
Last year at GSW Ron used some kind of airplane cable and some fasteners to make a quick center limiting strap. Seemed to work great.

Alaska ZJ
07-11-2007, 08:49 AM
If you are worried about the slight clank of a chain you can always use the chain that is encased in that plastic tube. Like a bicycle chain.

I used chain exclusivly. Worked just fine. I ran a center limit and a limit on each corner. I liked to "jump" too. worked like a champ.

I miss Chris.

MassZJ
07-12-2007, 07:09 PM
I use 1" spectra for rear limit straps. They dont stretch more than 2% and are good to 20,000 lbs.

Green Mountain ZJ
07-12-2007, 07:30 PM
A local guy here found a cheap fix for limiting straps. He modified a set of seatbelts to work. If I see him, I'll ask if they stretch but it might be worth a try anyways.

zjmikey
07-13-2007, 03:51 PM
UH, how bout just using the proper length shocks?? Ever thought of that??



I know its cool to max out everything, but once that coil unloads, its useless for any stability etc...

Keep your rear swaybar on!!! anti=rock in the front, your jeep will soo much more stable on off-camber stuff

zj95maxx
07-13-2007, 04:37 PM
It's called insurance.

Referring to above post.

Cody
07-13-2007, 04:48 PM
UH, how bout just using the proper length shocks?? Ever thought of that??



I know its cool to max out everything, but once that coil unloads, its useless for any stability etc...

Keep your rear swaybar on!!! anti=rock in the front, your jeep will soo much more stable on off-camber stuff

because a proper length shock doesn't prevent the suspension from unloading on steep climbs and big drops.

You don't "ideally" want your shock to be the limiting factor in your suspension. They can get pulled apart (seen it before)

I say "ideally" because my shocks are the limiting factor in mine and I don't care enough to change it. But at least I know it's wrong.

Alaska ZJ
07-13-2007, 05:15 PM
UH, how bout just using the proper length shocks?? Ever thought of that??



I know its cool to max out everything, but once that coil unloads, its useless for any stability etc...

Keep your rear swaybar on!!! anti=rock in the front, your jeep will soo much more stable on off-camber stuff

Let me see...using a 40 dollar shock to hold my 250 pound (conservative) wheel and tire in the air

OR

Have 2 bucks worth of chain, cable, strap do it and not not risk busting the shock

Hard Decision but the answer is....


Your a fucking retard.

Oh and the sway bar should not be used to limit articulation either....it is made to limit body roll. Limit Straps are made to limit axle droop and Bumpstops made to limit compression.

MoonWorks
07-15-2007, 06:00 PM
Let me see...using a 40 dollar shock to hold my 250 pound (conservative) wheel and tire in the air

OR

Have 2 bucks worth of chain, cable, strap do it and not not risk busting the shock

Hard Decision but the answer is....


Your a fucking retard.

Oh and the sway bar should not be used to limit articulation either....it is made to limit body roll. Limit Straps are made to limit axle droop and Bumpstops made to limit compression.


I believe that's the second e-bitch slap in this thread! :)

Alaska ZJ
07-16-2007, 09:13 AM
Not a Bitch slap. Papro is pretty thick skinned old timer around here. I reread it and it looks like I am calling him a noob or something, I was not trying to do that really. I was just trying to be a smartass and point out my view on things.

The dude is gonna sleep like 10 feet away from me in Mexico...I am not gonna be an ass even if I am a light sleeper.

Cody
07-16-2007, 12:07 PM
The dude is gonna sleep like 10 feet away from me in Mexico...I am not gonna be an ass even if I am a light sleeper.

I always pictured you as the little spoon.

Alaska ZJ
07-16-2007, 12:41 PM
I have been known to spoon once or twice. Your just jealous I didn't invite you...

Cody
07-16-2007, 01:14 PM
well, I was kinda invited, but it's just too hard for me to get that kind of time off and I don't feel like I would have been able to contribute enough to be a worth team mate this year.

Hopefully next year I will be able to commit more time and resources.

Alaska ZJ
07-17-2007, 06:55 PM
well, I was kinda invited, but it's just too hard for me to get that kind of time off and I don't feel like I would have been able to contribute enough to be a worth team mate this year.

Hopefully next year I will be able to commit more time and resources.

I hope you can too. You would be fun to throw in the bay in Ensenada....

Kraqa
07-20-2007, 12:23 AM
Some straps stretch well more than .002%...........

Top strap is unused. Bottom strap was used once, in my driveway for a test fit, and limited travel just one time.
http://home.off-road.com/~bassettsbeast/images/tech_photos/suspension/rearend/straps/straps2.jpg


Here it is in action::roll:
http://home.off-road.com/~bassettsbeast/images/tech_photos/suspension/rearend/straps/straps3.jpg
That's right about 20% stretch over original length.



Poor Sway-A-Way gave up the ghost it's 2nd day of use..
http://home.off-road.com/~bassettsbeast/images/trips/JV/April2-4_2003/Jack/IMG_0896.JPG


Do NOT buy Sway-A-Way.
For a rock crawler, or anything else not bound to be jumped, save your pennies and use chain.




Limit straps are a must for longarmed ZJs, right David??

http://home.off-road.com/~bassettsbeast/images/trips/JV/April2-4_2003/Aftershock_Claw/IMG_0787.JPG


holy shit Cbasset is back!!!!!!


and i used cable limiting straps for 2 years no problem.

vsh
07-21-2007, 06:06 AM
WHY NOT WELD LONGER TUBE ON THE END OF THE REAR PERCHES AND LET THE SUSPENTION GO WHERE IT WILL, THEREBY ALLOWING THE COILS TO SLIDE BACK UP AND RE-SEAT THEMSELVES. THIS WOULD PREVENT THE COILS FROM POPPING OUT.

ATL ZJ
07-21-2007, 12:21 PM
WHY NOT WELD LONGER TUBE ON THE END OF THE REAR PERCHES AND LET THE SUSPENTION GO WHERE IT WILL, THEREBY ALLOWING THE COILS TO SLIDE BACK UP AND RE-SEAT THEMSELVES. THIS WOULD PREVENT THE COILS FROM POPPING OUT.

That is actually what I use. 1.75" tube works perfectly to extend the center post of the upper coil perch.

But keeping the coils in is just the tip of the iceberg- you really need to control all that travel. Ideally you want at least a center limiting strap to prevent complete unloading of the rear suspension on steep descents. Also- if your shocks are the only thing limiting your droop, they are going to get fatigued over time..

96_zjlarado
07-21-2007, 11:45 PM
after reading this thread, i decided to make a set of nylon coated stainless wire to see how they work out. cost me about 7 bucks at ACE hardware. Tested them out today and I couldn't tell they were even there. went up the same trail i lost a spring on 2 weeks ago (even with the extended spring post) and when i got to the top... I still had a spring. I'm not gonna be ordering any pre made limiting straps. Bang for the buck baby!

Alaska ZJ
07-22-2007, 09:50 AM
WHY NOT WELD LONGER TUBE ON THE END OF THE REAR PERCHES AND LET THE SUSPENTION GO WHERE IT WILL, THEREBY ALLOWING THE COILS TO SLIDE BACK UP AND RE-SEAT THEMSELVES. THIS WOULD PREVENT THE COILS FROM POPPING OUT.

First STOP FUCKING YELLING AT US.

Second, you don't really want your suspension to "Go where it will". You will start breaking shocks, blowing out bushings and heims and seperating driveshafts.

When your suspension is totally unloaded like that it is pretty useless, there is no down pressure for traction (just the little bit of weight of the axle and tire). Crazy unrestricted articulation looks great on a ramp but it does not work in application.

Lots of people new to wheeling are always looking for "Awesome Flex". You rarely hear experienced wheelers talk that way. Experienced wheelers are usually looking for; bind free, moderate articulation, proper squat/anti-squat characteristics, pinion angle intergrity and good ground pressure on the contact patch. Things like unloading and loading on clumbs and decents are very important as well.

Hopefully that explained thing.

vsh
07-23-2007, 08:41 AM
new school thinking is less up travel and more down travel.
Of course I agree 100% you don't want to go too low to cause binding and such or killing your shocks, however, a tire on the ground regardless is better than a tire in the air. The compressed tire (if locked) will do most of the work anyhow, if not locked, then thats a whole different story and you probably shouldnt climb over more than... a curb. When you have that much articulation, to limit the amount of travel is necessary, just how much would be the question. I'd say limit it to the point of full shock travel / binding point / drive shaft pull and brake line length, and even then, consider rotating your axle shock tabs up higher to gain increased travel if you can.
Keep those tires where you need them most....
on the ground.

just my 0.02

vsh
07-23-2007, 09:04 AM
PS
As far as down/up hill travel goes, I've seen a few guys also install a 2k ATV winch from the body to the axle to compress their suspention when they need to change the COG. One on the front and one on the rear, purdy slick idea to help with the steep slopes.

vsh
07-23-2007, 09:34 AM
Here is a shot of a buddy of mine with the down low on the down low.
He crawls everywhere. lol

[/URL]

[URL]http://aycu04.webshots.com/image/23483/2004347224260954345_rs.jpg (http://aycu04.webshots.com/image/23483/2004347224260954345_rs.jpg)

zj95maxx
07-23-2007, 09:39 AM
Here is a shot of a buddy of mine with the down low on the down low.
He crawls everywhere. lol
http://www.universityofjeep.ca/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=9463&stc=1

You have to login to see that.

vsh
07-23-2007, 09:59 AM
Fixed

vsh
07-23-2007, 10:12 AM
http://aycu04.webshots.com/image/23483/2004347224260954345_rs.jpg

canadian_driver
07-23-2007, 10:26 AM
PS
As far as down/up hill travel goes, I've seen a few guys also install a 2k ATV winch from the body to the axle to compress their suspention when they need to change the COG. One on the front and one on the rear, purdy slick idea to help with the steep slopes.


why do i feel i have read someone amazed by this fact every 10 minutes for the past two weeks. yes people have suck down winches, yes they work:screwy:

all these Canadians are coming out of the woodworks, it used to be just me and tony giving us a bad rap(at least in the east) now it cant be controlled:best:

vsh
07-23-2007, 10:30 AM
Stop effin yelling at me like im a noob.
:prayer:


First STOP FUCKING YELLING AT US.

Second, you don't really want your suspension to "Go where it will". You will start breaking shocks, blowing out bushings and heims and seperating driveshafts.

When your suspension is totally unloaded like that it is pretty useless, there is no down pressure for traction (just the little bit of weight of the axle and tire). Crazy unrestricted articulation looks great on a ramp but it does not work in application.

Lots of people new to wheeling are always looking for "Awesome Flex". You rarely hear experienced wheelers talk that way. Experienced wheelers are usually looking for; bind free, moderate articulation, proper squat/anti-squat characteristics, pinion angle intergrity and good ground pressure on the contact patch. Things like unloading and loading on clumbs and decents are very important as well.

Hopefully that explained thing.

Cody
07-23-2007, 11:51 AM
new school thinking is less up travel and more down travel.

for a single purpose rig. Have you ever tried to blast down a bumpy road at 75 with only 2" of up travel?



however, a tire on the ground regardless is better than a tire in the air. Not always true. There are plenty of situations where carrying a tire over a large whole will help. I've seen super flexy rigs (which generally don't work for shit like Alaska alluded to) drop tires into holes or into undercut ledges and cause the balance of the rig to get out of wack. If a tire can carry a little bit and prevent from being stuck in a weird spot then good. Of course there are situations where an extra couple inches of flex can help but I don't see those as preventing you from getting up (assumed locked) and I think a generally balanced suspension will ALWAYS be more capable in diverse real world conditions than a super flexy/floppy suspension.

I remember the best example of this was when I was doing photo's for ARCA back in the day. There was one obstacle where all the flexy rigs couldn't get through, and all the stable and controlled rigs went through like butter. I have pics of Chris Durham (who walked it) carrying a tire through the entire climb/turn and Bob Roggy's super slinky suspension all flexed out and not going anywhere. One looked cooler for pictures, and one worked better. Which would you want (coincidentally, Durham's rig won the entire series that year and probably couldn't have driven off of a 23* ramp)

And as far as practical application to grand cherokee....I'd take 2" less lift and 2" less wheel travel any day over the alternative. Too many people lift sky high to "clear the tires". yes, you'll clear the tires for all that flex you want, but that flex isn't going to get you an extra inch down the trail while the stability and lower COG will.

vsh
07-25-2007, 12:17 PM
COG is the shit.
Completely agreed!
But, I wouldn't drive down a bumpy road, or any road....
at 75 with any rig.

Cody
07-25-2007, 12:43 PM
COG is the shit.
Completely agreed!
But, I wouldn't drive down a bumpy road, or any road....
at 75 with any rig.

I would, and do.

There is something beautiful about drifting around a dirt corner at 50-70 mph, cocked 30*, with the v8 screaming at 4000 rpm's while setting up for a nice roller to catch a little bit of air. Fast is fun!

Exodus
09-02-2007, 12:28 AM
it someone is worried about noise from a chain, what about the chain that has a rubber coating on it... like swing sets have on them now?

AgitatedPancake
09-02-2007, 02:20 AM
oh, you mean kinda like what was posted by Alaska months ago? Great idea! =P

chadjans
09-02-2007, 10:33 PM
Go to your local REI or anyone else who sells climbing equipment and get the rope wrap in 3/4" dia and run that over your chain.

Woody
09-06-2007, 05:33 AM
Is it just me, or after reading this entire thread, I am now uncertain about wanting to upgrade to Long Arms. If I have a decent ride, enough flex for my kind of wheelin,(not planning on a trip to Moab) and great traction at approx 5" of lift, other than wanting to clear bigger tires I wonder if I should stay with what has worked good for me.
Sounds like the Clayton 7" LA lift is just the begining of a lot of trouble!
Or am I just too old to understand.;)

zj95maxx
09-06-2007, 02:23 PM
Is it just me, or after reading this entire thread, I am now uncertain about wanting to upgrade to Long Arms. If I have a decent ride, enough flex for my kind of wheelin,(not planning on a trip to Moab) and great traction at approx 5" of lift, other than wanting to clear bigger tires I wonder if I should stay with what has worked good for me.
Sounds like the Clayton 7" LA lift is just the begining of a lot of trouble!
Or am I just too old to understand.;)


installing long arms does make you need to change a lot of things to make the best set up for your money... But thats just with any mod..one mod leads to something else changing, causing you to have to buy something else to make your first mod work, understand?

It sucks though:D