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View Full Version : Grand Buggy owners... what would you do differnt?



mikebeach
08-23-2004, 09:21 PM
Looks like Im picking up Nathaniels Black Grand that got side swiped. Im keeping the motor and tranny the same probably gonna swap out the 249 for a 231 or 242. Ive already found a rear 60 here in town for cheap and now Im on the hunt for a front Ford HP60. I want to keep it looking like a Grand Cherokee. Has anyone dovetailed the front of a Grand? If I could move the radiator to the back, I think Id be able to dovetail the front pretty easy. What I want to know, is if you had to build another Grand Buggy what would you do different? Also post up some pics, Ive been searching and cant find any good pics of the chuggy or Codys or anybody elses for that matter.
Sorry for rambling.
Mike

JpRngr
08-23-2004, 10:04 PM
Mike,
One of the biggest things I'd do different is to go directly to at least 60's front and rear(which it sounds like you are). Front HP60's ain't cheap up front, but they're cheaper in the long run(Right Cody?). Other than that, I'm pretty happy. Just beef the hell out of it and you should be good. Also, make it different so people know it when they see it.


Corey

mikebeach
08-23-2004, 10:14 PM
Mike,
One of the biggest things I'd do different is to go directly to at least 60's front and rear(which it sounds like you are). Front HP60's ain't cheap up front, but they're cheaper in the long run(Right Cody?). Other than that, I'm pretty happy. Just beef the hell out of it and you should be good. Also, make it different so people know it when they see it.


Corey
Hey Corey, after building the TJ, 60's are the only way to go. Even if it takes me a little longer to build it with 60's I think it will be worth it. Its definatly gonna be different than some of the ZJ buggys Ive seen.
Mike

JpRngr
08-24-2004, 01:06 AM
BTW, Mike, here are some links to GSW pics. There are pics of mine, Cody's, and Brentt's in some of the pics.

http://www.imagestation.com/album/review.html?id=4286541207

http://www.nagca.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=14912&start=0


This is mine, The Chalupa!

http://www.imagestation.com/mypictures/inbox/view.html?id=4164733115&url=http%3A//www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid122/p69f2c5a48db1df6c9472c7e2f6ea1c0a/f83cc8bb.jpg&caption=DSCN5222&album_id=4286525877& from_album=1


At least that's how mine looked before this:

http://mallcrawlin.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=371



Corey

mikebeach
08-24-2004, 01:18 AM
BTW, Mike, here are some links to GSW pics. There are pics of mine, Cody's, and Brentt's in some of the pics.

http://www.imagestation.com/album/review.html?id=4286541207

http://www.nagca.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=14912&start=0


This is mine, The Chalupa!

http://www.imagestation.com/mypictures/inbox/view.html?id=4164733115&url=http%3A//www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid122/p69f2c5a48db1df6c9472c7e2f6ea1c0a/f83cc8bb.jpg&caption=DSCN5222&album_id=4286525877& from_album=1


At least that's how mine looked before this:

http://mallcrawlin.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=371



Corey
Thanks for those links, Ive been doing a ton of research trying to figure out what I want to do. Thanks for the info.
Mike

Alaska ZJ
08-24-2004, 12:14 PM
I would Do these mods if I were to start over with what you are getting.

D60's

Hydro Assist steering

Chop the back like Nate Cannon and Swampy

Put the gas tank in the back like I did.

Full Interior Cage

Make the wheelbase 110 or so.

Rocker replacement of some sort.

Flat belly skid

Enjoy.

Cody
08-24-2004, 01:02 PM
For the wheelin that you do down there, I would....

-60's
-Atlas (or some other of twin stickies)
-big tires (fo-dees)
-Push the front end forward as much as possible and use either full hydro or if you like to bomb the dirt roads, hydro assist.
-Don't stretch the rear. I don't think 110 WB is very good for AZ. Try and keep it as short as possible, but I still think moving the front end forward will help keep your f-r weight distribution more normal. Besides, there is nothing that can be climbed w/ 110 that can't be climbed with 106-but there are places that 110 just won't fit and those places are all over AZ
-unless you really want a fuel cell, it's way less hassle to just move the stock tank up
-cut out everything and weld in solid boat side rockers and use that as the platform for your cage. My rockers are squared, and while I don't get hung up on them as much as I do on my belly, I wish they were more boat side ish.


Thats all for now. I wish that I would have kept the stock fuel system, and that I would have ponied up for the front 60. Also, I wish I would have never even tried to keep the windshield--waste of time and money. As soon as you tip it on it's side, by by windshield and all the time you wasted working around it with angles and such was useless. Chop it out and do it right.

I think the perfect design is what Clayton's ended up at right before he sold it. I'm sure Kevin has some EJS pics of it--no extra WB, fairly narrow, low to the ground, and doved front and rear.

Cody

chadjans
08-24-2004, 05:19 PM
D60's rears are a waste and more expensive. Get a 14bolt cheaper, stronger and super cool with the two piece carrier and second pinion support.

Reuse the stock fuel pump in a custom made fuel cell.\

Chad

JpRngr
08-24-2004, 08:34 PM
D60's rears are a waste and more expensive. Get a 14bolt cheaper, stronger and super cool with the two piece carrier and second pinion support.

Reuse the stock fuel pump in a custom made fuel cell.\

Chad

14 bolts are cheaper than 60's? Everywhere I look I see rear 60's, usually no more than $100. I hardly ever see 14 bolts and when I do, people want $3-400. Plus the 14 bolt hangs down a bit lower, especially after you let Trango do his magic to a 60.


As for the stock pump in the custom cell, have you done this? More importantly, who can do it and how much? I've got my stock tank in the bed and would much prefer a custom cell with the stock pump.



Corey

MaineZJ
08-24-2004, 08:49 PM
14 bolts are relatively easy to find in Maine...
yeah, the immitate a shovel- but you can grind em good
and they are fullfloating :D

mikebeach
08-24-2004, 08:53 PM
D60's rears are a waste and more expensive. Get a 14bolt cheaper, stronger and super cool with the two piece carrier and second pinion support.

Reuse the stock fuel pump in a custom made fuel cell.\

Chad
I found a 60 for 75$ :lol:

mikebeach
08-24-2004, 09:00 PM
For the wheelin that you do down there, I would....

-60's
-Atlas (or some other of twin stickies)
-big tires (fo-dees)
-Push the front end forward as much as possible and use either full hydro or if you like to bomb the dirt roads, hydro assist.
-Don't stretch the rear. I don't think 110 WB is very good for AZ. Try and keep it as short as possible, but I still think moving the front end forward will help keep your f-r weight distribution more normal. Besides, there is nothing that can be climbed w/ 110 that can't be climbed with 106-but there are places that 110 just won't fit and those places are all over AZ
-unless you really want a fuel cell, it's way less hassle to just move the stock tank up
-cut out everything and weld in solid boat side rockers and use that as the platform for your cage. My rockers are squared, and while I don't get hung up on them as much as I do on my belly, I wish they were more boat side ish.


Thats all for now. I wish that I would have kept the stock fuel system, and that I would have ponied up for the front 60. Also, I wish I would have never even tried to keep the windshield--waste of time and money. As soon as you tip it on it's side, by by windshield and all the time you wasted working around it with angles and such was useless. Chop it out and do it right.

I think the perfect design is what Clayton's ended up at right before he sold it. I'm sure Kevin has some EJS pics of it--no extra WB, fairly narrow, low to the ground, and doved front and rear.

Cody
Yup, thats pretty much what Im gonna do... I think im gonna stick a 231 in there until it breaks then go to a flipped 300 or Atlas. Im going to try and keep the windsheild for now, cause Im gonna be driving this to and from the trail (ahh the joy of living in AZ) if it does break I'll cut it out and put some speed glass attached to the cage or something.
Keep the ideas comming.... I should be starting in on this project by the end of the month :)
Mike

Alaska ZJ
08-24-2004, 09:08 PM
Flat belly. or atleast smooth. I hang on that shit more than anything else.

chadjans
08-25-2004, 04:15 AM
Ask Trango about his 14b for 35 dollars. Stock pump with custom cells are all over pirate. Goferit eng. makes a weld in ring to mount the pump. Here is one example: http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=274444&page=3

Easily done. Have someone who can tig al make you one.

Chad

Trancezj
08-25-2004, 09:03 AM
What is speed glass?

Alaska ZJ
08-25-2004, 10:40 AM
SPeed glas is a Poly type glass that doesn't scratch SUPER easy and will not break apart when smashed.

It is the shit the race car guys use.

JpRngr
08-25-2004, 03:12 PM
Ask Trango about his 14b for 35 dollars.
Chad

Is that the junk one he got for the tube ends? The ones he put on his DANA 60?


Corey

Cody
08-25-2004, 05:06 PM
14 bolts are great if you're running big ass tires. But if this thing is going to be driven to the trail, chances are he's skipping on the 42's. A 60 or a 9" are both great axles, 60 being the cheaper alternative for easy strength. I like 9's because you can put a few bucks in them and have 35 spline shafts and a super strong center. Now taking 14b outers and making a ff 60, that is bitchin.

If you do decide to go the fuel cell route, make sure you get either a poly cell or a nicer aluminum one. Mine is just the basic 15 gallon alluminum job and it has already had to be rewelded once for a bad leak/crack and there are multiple other cracks too--not to mention the mounting tabs are breaking off. Poly cells are ugly, and they may warp under the sun, but at least you don't have to worry about the seams cracking....

If I was going to try and drive it to the trail, I would leave the roof intact and just chop liberally at the rear 1/4's and front fenders to fit some bigg ass meat (and when I mean liberally, I mean I want to be able to stick my hand into the cargo area from the rear fender well). Take all the windows out except the windshield (bad idea ;) ) strip it and put a cage in it. Then go drag the body against every bolder you can find until it is properly mashed. I want to see someone go this route--topless is cool and all, but it doesn't cut that much weight down unless you get rid of everything--which would eliminate the street legality of the rig.

I just think lots of crushed sheetmetal would look bitchin!

If you want twin sticks and a front 60 for cheap---pick up a chevy 60 and a d300. Chevy 60's are usually a coupel hundred cheaper than ford 60's, and d300 (or 205's) can be made twin stick pretty easily.

Well, good luck and hopefully I'll see this hoss at GSSW this year. Speaking of, when are we doing that? March? I don't want to drive 12 hours for 55 degree weather and rain again ;)

Cody

Trancezj
08-25-2004, 05:38 PM
If I was going to try and drive it to the trail, I would leave the roof intact and just chop liberally at the rear 1/4's and front fenders to fit some bigg ass meat (and when I mean liberally, I mean I want to be able to stick my hand into the cargo area from the rear fender well). Take all the windows out except the windshield (bad idea ;) ) strip it and put a cage in it. Then go drag the body against every bolder you can find until it is properly mashed. I want to see someone go this route--topless is cool and all, but it doesn't cut that much weight down unless you get rid of everything--which would eliminate the street legality of the rig.

I just think lots of crushed sheetmetal would look bitchin!


Cody
Besides the Nate/Swampy chop, that's pretty much my approach.

mikebeach
08-25-2004, 07:34 PM
Now taking 14b outers and making a ff 60, that is bitchin.

yup, I think thats what Im gonna do, the 60 I found is 30 spline, so I want to upgrade it to 35spl, so Im gonna use the 14b outers.



If you want twin sticks and a front 60 for cheap---pick up a chevy 60 and a d300. Chevy 60's are usually a coupel hundred cheaper than ford 60's, and d300 (or 205's) can be made twin stick pretty easily.

Well, good luck and hopefully I'll see this hoss at GSSW this year. Speaking of, when are we doing that? March? I don't want to drive 12 hours for 55 degree weather and rain again ;)

Cody
Ive been thinking about going this route. Do you think I'll have any clearence issues with the headers and exhaust stuff with the passenger side drop 60?( I know there will be some issues, but I want to get this thing done ASAP, I havent been wheeling in over 2 years) I'll have to talk to Kevin and get some GSSW dates nailed down.
Thanks
Mike [/quote]

Alaska ZJ
08-26-2004, 11:30 AM
Your gonna have to cut the fuck out of the floor to get a D300 to fit without it hanging WAY low.

You are going to have to reroute the exhaust all to the drivers side.

That should be about it. I have a Chebby 60 in the front of the Chuggy now and this is what I am finding. I haven't got the Tcases put together yet since I am waiting on all the doubler parts but I can already tell I am gonna get happy with the Saw.

mikebeach
08-26-2004, 08:48 PM
Your gonna have to cut the fuck out of the floor to get a D300 to fit without it hanging WAY low.

You are going to have to reroute the exhaust all to the drivers side.

That should be about it. I have a Chebby 60 in the front of the Chuggy now and this is what I am finding. I haven't got the Tcases put together yet since I am waiting on all the doubler parts but I can already tell I am gonna get happy with the Saw.
Cool.. Im down to chop the crap out of it. Do you have any pics of your front 60 in?
Mike
:edit: Will any dana 300 bolt up to the 46rh?
Thanks

Alaska ZJ
08-26-2004, 09:41 PM
I have a Aw4 tranny so I couldn't tell you.

someone here has a 300 as well...who was that?

chadjans
08-27-2004, 04:18 PM
I plan on doing something similar to this:

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid134/pbb222c79ab5889aa58125264f397de67/f770880a.jpg

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid134/p42a138a7241f7f335083341c5d07ed44/f7708802.jpg

Chad

Alaska ZJ
08-27-2004, 07:52 PM
That is an XJ....Get the Ban Stick!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

chadjans
08-27-2004, 08:17 PM
hmmm: http://mallcrawlin.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=286

Chad

Jim311
08-27-2004, 09:47 PM
I like that buggy.. bitchin.

Swamp boy
08-27-2004, 10:35 PM
[/quote]
Besides the Nate/Swampy chop, that's pretty much my approach.[/quote]


Why thank you... I guess that was a compliment..

BigDaveZJ
08-28-2004, 12:26 AM
That is an XJ....Get the Ban Stick!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

:twisted:

Alaska ZJ
08-28-2004, 05:01 AM
hmmm: http://mallcrawlin.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=286

Chad

Yah but Dave is bigger than me and pays the bills......My Thigh is bigger than you.......................lol.

chadjans
08-28-2004, 11:31 PM
Dave can't ban me. I helped him solve his brake issue....

Chad

ROKN ZJ
09-03-2004, 11:37 PM
I'd have to agree with everyone else with regard to building a Grand Buggy. I'd go 60s, full hydro, 300 with twin sticks, 40+ tires, internal cage, coilover's etc. I'd also suggest keeping the roof, and back seats.

The only thing I'd suggest is make sure you WANT a grand buggy. I mean there's a reason a lot of us (me, cody, clayton,...) are moving on to other things. I'd suggest putting all the money you want into the drivetrain since you can move that to somethign else if you want to, but limit the body mods to function only, and try and keep costs down (While still thinking of safety) just because it's money you'll not be able to get back out.

I'm not trying to be a party pooper, I'm just trying to keep you from dumping too much money into something you may regret doing in a couple years when you hit its limits.

Alaska ZJ
09-04-2004, 10:25 AM
Yah I agree with Rokn. Don't put a bunch of money into body modifications. You will never be able to recoup or even use those mods if you move on.

Drivetrain is where I am spending the majority of my time and effort right now.

I know that If I want I can easily move the whole thing over to a new vehicle with little to no trouble.

Not so with super fancy bumpers, Rollcages, Fuel Cells (well maybe), Suspensions (Some but not all).

Not to mention wheeling in anything close to freezing cold weather sucks ass in a buggy. I really want a full bodied rig.

Trancezj
09-07-2004, 09:44 AM
The cold weather thing is going to suck. I think my plan for the start of next summer will be chop the rear, and just pull all the doors. That's close enough to being buggy like. That way, all the doors can be put back on and a top can be made for the back.

Swamp boy
09-08-2004, 09:04 PM
Doesnt get cold here... I am working on Half doors.....
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v122/swampboy/IM002801.jpg

Kraqa
09-08-2004, 09:12 PM
god thats ugly.......i love it.

Swamp boy
09-09-2004, 08:25 AM
Thanks. .I am trying to make my rig as ugly as I possibly can... :D

One day ... It will look like one of those Scions... :lol:
Cause those things are god damn ugly....

Trancezj
09-09-2004, 09:08 AM
God damn... did you use a steak knife to cut that out?

Swamp boy
09-09-2004, 09:37 AM
I cut it with a sawzall cause thats how I do everything.... :D
Contrary to how it looks its not that bad.. I still have to grind the welds down and do some body work... I am contemplating putting a piece of diamond plate on the new top of the door...But I am not one for bling... :D

Ill post pics when I grind it down and get the body work done..


Carl

Trancezj
09-09-2004, 09:46 AM
I'm just givin' you hard time man. lol

deadman
09-09-2004, 12:54 PM
:shock: Haha... this is crazy... I love it! 8)

Swamp boy
09-12-2004, 10:47 PM
Here is a new pic... Cleaned it up some and primed it...

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v122/swampboy/IM002825.jpg


Looking much better dont you think... :D

Alaska ZJ
09-13-2004, 09:03 AM
CUP HOLDERS!!!

Swamp boy
09-13-2004, 12:45 PM
Ahahahahaahahah.. Thats actually the third time Someone has asked me that... Maybe I should do it.. I just figured I still have my stock center console ..It has cup holders... I wonder if I can find a chrome or gold drop in.. :lol:

I gotta have some bling... :D

ROKN ZJ
09-13-2004, 04:07 PM
Why didn't you just take the doors off to paint them??

Swamp boy
09-13-2004, 04:10 PM
Because there is a huricane coming and its been raining and such off and on.. So I figured it would be easier to just paint it in place...

Mostly Laziness I guess :D